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Operation: Hostile Mergers [PC] [OVER].

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

If your upper-tier clans aren't active enough with players - that only require barely any effort over what is needed for personal rewards - you can downsize to keep those burdens trivial.
"Bust your ass off"? If you lot can't get your gold trophy by pulling together with a mere half of what solo Ghosts had to muster then you placed yourself in that position deliberately.

If your lower-tier clans aren't active enough with players - that only require barely 2 hours to run the event to get 20k - you can easily join a legitimate clan or grow your clan.

If you can't get your gold trophy by merely pulling yourself together then you placed yourself in that position deliberately.

 

Warlord to Warlord here, it's pretty damn hard to keep track and manage your clan's player base, especially when Warframe has its down times. I am Warlord of a Mountain Clan and yes, we did get the Gold Trophy. It took a few days and many painful hours. Some of our players have 20k scored individually. 

Keep in mind. This is a Clan Event. Not a Solo Event. 

For upper-tier clans, administration and getting many other human beings to do the event is really difficult. Also, both Clans get the same reward despite you having to take 2 hours and other clans a whole week of grind. You should be happy to only have to do minimal work and get an equal reward.

 

Maybe you need some help? My clan can help you. Perhaps you should join 🙂

Edited by -BG-StormFighter117
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1 hour ago, -BG-StormFighter117 said:

If your lower-tier clans aren't active enough with players - that only require barely 2 hours to run the event to get 20k - you can easily join a legitimate clan or grow your clan.

If you can't get your gold trophy by merely pulling yourself together then you placed yourself in that position deliberately.

 

Warlord to Warlord here, it's pretty damn hard to keep track and manage your clan's player base, especially when Warframe has its down times. I am Warlord of a Mountain Clan and yes, we did get the Gold Trophy. It took a few days and many painful hours. Some of our players have 20k scored individually. 

Keep in mind. This is a Clan Event. Not a Solo Event. 

For upper-tier clans, administration and getting many other human beings to do the event is really difficult. Also, both Clans get the same reward despite you having to take 2 hours and other clans a whole week of grind. You should be happy to only have to do minimal work and get an equal reward.

 

Maybe you need some help? My clan can help you. Perhaps you should join 🙂

Let's be real here. Killing Demolysts at a 20k point level is fast becoming no laughing matter - instant-kill workarounds notwithstanding. Especially considering the frequent bugginess cheating the player out of precious time-saving efforts.

Thing is, whether I managed this or not, the point remains that, objectively speaking, this 'half capacity' metric just doesn't check out mathematically at all.

Even at the most fundamental level; let's ignore for the moment the entirety of the 'solo Ghost' aspect and instead look at what 'half' means within those higher tiers.

You're a Mountain, so you have a player range of 100-300 players. Can you see where I'm going with this already? The halfway point for a Mountain clan is not (300/2) or 150 players. It's ((100+300)/2) or 200 players. Likewise, Shadows are scored for 15 not 20, Storms for 50 not 65 and Moons for 500 not 650.

That's still not terribly comparable of a difference - indeed, a total capacitative ratio being a factor of three is more than this little 0.33 being skimmed off the top. But we can call that difference your 'management write-off'; unfortunately, that still leaves the problem of capacity ratio as an unsolved burden on the Ghost clan tier.

In a uniform distribution this leniency on higher tiers still holds true - taking my base-4 concept at the Mountain-equivalent level:
Mountain tier = 43 - 44 = 64 - 256 player capacity. The halfway point by total capacity is 128 when it would be ((64+256)/2) = 160 by the actual functional range, so you still get your write-off for the management of the clan. But there's no total capacity ratio difference, so the 4-person base tier has the same net expectations as all the higher ones. All the minimum population pulling double duty.

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clan trophy revard  (statue) give immediately or at the end of the event?

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On 2019-05-25 at 7:56 PM, Cytopenia said:

I don't see myself doing an 8k or 20k point run, but i'll probably attempt a 20k one and hope i don't run into more bugs or disconnections.

20190531235744.png

We managed to do it on the first try as a pub squad, so I think it is rather doable.

There're still many bugs in the game mode like UI not updating, so you won't know what your current score is, nor which terminals have been activated

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On 2019-05-31 at 5:48 AM, Samedi-N7 said:

clan trophy revard  (statue) give immediately or at the end of the event?

immediately but there might be a little delay before game update your clan score.

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Aw man an 8K run solo was actually like, hard. My battacor idea didn't really pan out, even riven-ed up. Those dudes are just so tanky... 

Too bad I insisted on doing a solo clan. No gold for me 😞
(can't play in a squad cause I need to pause too often)

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7 minutes ago, tarfeef101 said:

Aw man an 8K run solo was actually like, hard. My battacor idea didn't really pan out, even riven-ed up. Those dudes are just so tanky... 

Too bad I insisted on doing a solo clan. No gold for me 😞
(can't play in a squad cause I need to pause too often)

Yeah, the squad burden is a lot higher for scoring this event than most have been. That 8k might easily have been 20k+ in a squad, because of the point multiplier based on activating more conduits at once. Can't really do that solo, especially without just.. failing most.

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On 2019-05-30 at 12:12 AM, TheLexiConArtist said:

maybe we can just standardise the clan tiers better so when DE use an arbitrary 'halfsies' balancing point it doesn't hurt any tier more than another.

i think they should do the exact oposite and make it so that resource and point vaules are dependent on how many players the clan ACTUALY has in it. I'm in a shadow clan that needs to be a shadow clan because we are 11 players - that sucks.

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2 minutes ago, slotschii said:

i think they should do the exact oposite and make it so that resource and point vaules are dependent on how many players the clan ACTUALY has in it. I'm in a shadow clan that needs to be a shadow clan because we are 11 players - that sucks.

That would be even more ideal in theory, but I have doubts they'll do that because that means they have to worry about how to define the activity of the clan's remaining players and the possibility of people gaming the system somehow to be lazier (if the points were set higher since "everyone is active" in this scenario).

Far easier for them to just do this sort of arbitrary 'half', but they're clearly not looking enough into what that actually means. At least using standard tier sizing you'd be hard pressed to get as bad as it currently is.

In your case - 11 players - you'd have the equivalent point threshold of 32k (instead of 60k) because you fall in the 4-16 bracket. Essentially, as long as you have two people other than yourself then you're still faring pretty well there. 10667 points each with 3 players - some endurance but reasonable; 8000 with 4, double-duty isn't at all bad (that pure solo guy above could reach it!)

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Posted (edited)

The reality of the clans is not only recruiting who you know or is a friend of, but filling them with any active player so that your players inside them do not stand alone or are helpless when they look for a squad to play or help.

I think creating mechanisms for the player to be an active agent in entering the clan (instead of just the clan inviting players)
would help in a part of the problem.
(about clans with only half of their slots filled with active players and all this "ratio" problem)
this solution I have already shown in prints a few pages ago along with other solutions. (link above)

(seeing the Warframe game not only as a creative and unique effort, but as a product that needs optimization for the user and needs to update and follow trends that optimize the player experience, I do not see problem in the DE in adopting interface solutions and similar experience of other games in this type of situation.)


that way it would overburden less the warlord in recruiting player.
unfortunately recruiting in the warframe is not something natural, it is something that takes a lot of work in the game and ends up becoming a grind for recruit new players.


-

Now, about the boy with "11 members"
I think DE could create a clan rank with a maximum capacity of 15 players or something for your case.
but the slots situation is something that needs to be worked out in clans,
as a problem in both small and large clans

there is little variety .... a clan of 10 players to 30 is a stark difference, as is 100 to 300, and 300 to 1000.
There is no middle ground in all these cases. I think it's a unanimous conclusion between all of us here.

Edited by --Blame--

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, --Blame-- said:

The reality of the clans is not only recruiting who you know or is a friend of, but filling them with any active player so that your players inside them do not stand alone or are helpless when they look for a squad to play or help.

Are you saying this has become the reality by necessity, or is the only 'legitimate' way to run a clan?

Because for the latter, you're welcome to your opinion on how you want to run your own clans, but I don't think you have any right to tell people they can't or shouldn't run a little clan of buddies. Hell, even mine was formed of a whole two of us before my buddy burned out and quit Warframe.

That aside, the upper tiers don't have that stark a contrast, being factors of 3 (or 3.33..). I can't list off many example games offhand for each, but there's essentially two major approaches to growing membership limits:

  1. Incremental (typically small) increases of flat amounts - but usually more levels to bump up e.g. +10 per capacity 'rank' from 10-250
  2. Multiplicative scaling such as Warframe's.. sort of is, and my suggestion of an absolute base-4 system would be in full. Every tier is an exponent higher than its previous, e.g. 10/100/1000.

 One notable mention I have to make is EvE which mixes the two by virtue of the owner's skill ranks - Each skill is a set of 5 increments, but completion of each unlocks a higher-tier skill, in which the increment is multiplied, as such:

(10x tier) 10-20-30-40-50 | (50x tier) 100-150-200-250-300 | (100x tier) 400-500-600-700-800

I don't have the exact numbers in my head these days, but that's the gist of it. Could Warframe migrate to something like this, too, in the future (at a smaller scale, because EvE corps get enormous) perhaps?
This way we could have Ghost, Shadow, Storm, Mountain and Moon tiers, but then broken down within these to sub-levelled breakpoints. If those sub-levels became locked in on commencement of the event, and where the basis for scaling the score requirements is based on the sublevel, there's room to more accurately tweak challenges towards the actual registered players within each tiered bracket. Solo Ghosts wouldn't be challenged up as if their bracket capped at 10 because the 10-player tier is broken into 2-4-6-8-10 sub-levels. 10-30 Shadow Clans would get 14-18-22-26-30, so on.

You might benefit from these less if you have a lot of inactive players bumping you further up the sublevels, but the potential for greater fidelity of challenge is there.

Edited by TheLexiConArtist

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Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, TheLexiConArtist said:

Are you saying this has become the reality by necessity, or is the only 'legitimate' way to run a clan?

Because for the latter, you're welcome to your opinion on how you want to run your own clans, but I don't think you have any right to tell people they can't or shouldn't run a little clan of buddies. Hell, even mine was formed of a whole two of us before my buddy burned out and quit Warframe.

 

Man, I do not know if it's because I'm using google translate to help me write in English or you're taking everything aggressively, but I'm just talking about my experience and my experience .... I'm just commenting, making a report, not I'm attacking nobody.

This is how you are supposed to take all this conversation, an exchange of ideas, sometimes with divergences of ideas, but this is a process that is by no means an imposition, as you are insinuating, and at most trying to show that the point of the another is poorly constructed or wrong through facts and other points of view.

if you have a clan with your friend, fine,  it's not my business it's your business.
My problem with you regarding "solo clan" is when you come to talk that it is difficult to hold an event.... but same time,  you have chosen to have only 2 players into your dojo. You chose it!

Event clan, CLAN, not due, CLAN. You do what you want, you're free and I stand for it, but you're never going to have the best of both worlds,
and I just wanted to make you understand that.

Ok? We are fine? LoL

_


About my Quote now
I think its more about "necessity"

South Server have half of players of North America, and also, theres no [DE] Bots with auto reply for help people without clan chat.
With all this, newbies tend to give up the game more easily, and this is not interesting for someone who needs a full clan, or as a player who does not want to see the game stop being played and dies.

That is, clans have a much more sensitive work for the community on servers that have fewer players and I believe they are even more important than Lotus Guides to insert players into the game and make them feel part of a group or something, rather than reclusive and lost.


This is the background that I am inserted and this is the way I see it. I try to fight the evasion of players in the game for lack of guardianship and clan resources (UI/DESIGN), thats my personal mission over here on forum.

The other is that of course a clan it tends to get smaller over time if you stop looking for new players as a recruiter
if you expect new players to come in naturally (your members adding friends), when you realize your clan is dead with a gigantic list of offline players.

.
Conclusion:
For these reasons I believe that the game should emphasize an interface where the player can look for a clan that he identifies instead of being played inside a clan that recruited him and that he may have ideological aversion.


Would help the warlods to have less work recruiting, help players find the clan he identifies, and help DE to keep players interested in the game through a community resource.

Edited by --Blame--

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5 minutes ago, --Blame-- said:

The other is that of course a clan it tends to get smaller over time if you stop looking for new players as a recruiter

if you expect new players to come in naturally (your members adding friends), when you realize your clan is dead with a gigantic list of offline players.
 


Remembering this, I thought one thing
Dojo interace urgently needs a tool to select several players (such as a check-box) for you to promote, or remove from the clan.


It takes a lot of work to get an inactive moon clan and expel all inactive players from a list of 800 ~ 1000, with 2/3 of them not coming in for more than 120 days.

This is the most boring thing in the world to do, and can take literally over 10 minutes.

I do not know how it can be done to do this safely (to avoid human failure) but I see as necessary something that does this but with some sort of lock to prevent you from deleting your entire list of players unintentionally.
 

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extension please. and/or lower the requirements for gold across all tiers. it's a little silly that the math allows clans to be in the top 10% of clans in their rank but still not qualify for gold.

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On 2019-05-22 at 11:53 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Your Clan will be eligible for Operation trophies if you've got what it takes! Our intention is that if roughly 50% of a clan of a given tier is active and participating, they can earn a Gold trophy. Trophies are a cosmetic item that signify earning a specific milestone for a given operation. For Operation: Hostile Mergers, earning Gold will signify the milestone of rallying your clan or cooperating with other clans to earn points (i.e Solo clans bringing more firepower by working together). Not everyone will get Gold, and that's okay!

Does this mean that, in my 30-ppl shadow clan, we need 15 players to join this operation or we won't have a gold trophy? So far we reached 60k more points with 14 players involved, is this a gold trophy guarantee?

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HTB1dtVQbBWD3KVjSZKPq6yp7FXav.jpg

HTB1jrFQbAWE3KVjSZSyq6xocXXaT.jpg

PLEASE Explain this...

10009*4 + 8051 < 43591 ???

Clan Name: Requiem_ (Shadow Clan)

There's not much time left, please help me

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Ended, still unable to build clan Barracks what was waiting long after researches and then after this event. ☹️

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So the event ended... if I made a clan during the event, but still got enough points to earn a trophy, I'll still get it, right? I'm assuming it'll just take some time for the scores to update, or the trophy blueprints to deliver?

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19 minutes ago, CobaltHail said:

So the event ended... if I made a clan during the event, but still got enough points to earn a trophy, I'll still get it, right? I'm assuming it'll just take some time for the scores to update, or the trophy blueprints to deliver?

they were instant delivered to my clan when we got the points for a trophy.

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After all is said and done I just want to say this was an amazing operation and I had a lot of fun with it. More operations please.

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