Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

[DE]Danielle

(The Jovian Concord: Update 25) Wisp Feedback

Recommended Posts

13 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

all 3 of them tie into sol gate. so  as i stated in an earlier post, at no point in time do i not want all 3 buffs active.

Actually yes there would be, because you might not want your shock motes to be placed in some places. 

Like when you want mobs to reach you faster, so you wouldn't want to use shock mote. Yet you still want an anchor point for quick teleportation, so you'd use something else instead.

I think that's part of the fun/challenge with using her though. Spread out all 3 motes across the map circuit, so you don't need them all in one spot but can keep buffs active. 

I do understand the allure of having them all activate at the same time. That would be nice too. What you said about "more unnecessary mechanics" also makes some sense because she has a lot more features than other frames. I enjoy the complexity, but I see why it's intimidating/annoying for others. Except that just because you don't use/enjoy it, doesn't mean it's "useless" to everyone. 

I still think that all buffs at 2.5s would give us all the options we're looking for though. Heck, most people didn't think they would want/like the motes, and now they like that ability the most. 

(I wish we had a "thinking face" reaction for your post... I sorta agree but sorta don't?)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Maka.Bones said:

But why not both? How is it bad to have options? Lol

Idk I don't think she has a "long way to go" but she does feel like she has a steeper learning curve compared to easy/basic frames to use. 

Steeper learning curve... ha I had wondered what you would respond. Yes, a steeper learning curve to achieve <1/5 of the results. Trying harder to place buffs at every objective, or every time the wear off in Exterminate etc. Trying harder to teleport. Trying harder to stealth. Trying harder to heal. I wouldn't even try to get her abilities to do damage. All for what? Floatbutt? I mean sure, but I've been teleporting across maps since Nova dropped, so learning curve is no problem here. Literal numbers, which takes a mathematician, are half the problem. The other half is that her abilities are all chimeras, amalgamations, or whatever Frankenstein monster name you prefer of other Warframes abilities, to no cognitive point. Her 1 is Elemental Ward/Augmented Speed, her 2 is Decoy/Teleport/Rolling Dodge, her 3 is Radial Blind/Molecular prime, and her 4 is it's own thing for sure. It appears to have sounds from it's previous incarnation. I'll bold the ones that are any good, and should have been focused on in the design phase. Instead they are all hampered by the other half of the ability no one is using at the time.

Like her 3. It has only one reason it is LoS. They nerfed the crap out of Excalibur/Mirage back in Draco days by making blinds all LoS. Now, it causes enemies to derp for 3 out of it's claimed 16 seconds, and as long as they are not hitscan well, at least you do extra damage. If the motes track a nearby enemy in LoS. If it didn't have the bloody blind it would be 100% better nothing added. Indeed her 2. What if it just teleported you to your reticle? Or what if it placed a decoy for 15 seconds while you went invisible? It would be at least as good as Void Dash, or Decoy. Right now? It can't be either. 

Nah she is no where near done on the design table. She has to figure out what she is first. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

Actually yes there would be, because you might not want your shock motes to be placed in some places. 

Like when you want mobs to reach you faster, so you wouldn't want to use shock mote. Yet you still want an anchor point for quick teleportation, so you'd use something else instead.

I think that's part of the fun/challenge with using her though. Spread out all 3 motes across the map circuit, so you don't need them all in one spot but can keep buffs active. 

I do understand the allure of having them all activate at the same time. That would be nice too. 

i dont have an issue of mobs not reaching me faster as i dont stand in one place not even on defense the stun also doesnt last that long. i also dont hear people complaining about this with volt whose discharge and shock reach are much wider than hers.

there is also the problem of having to cycle to recast to remove motes. again all im saying is that it is a sluggish annoyance. we can have stationary skills that feel good to use. reservoirs does not feel good to use.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

no thanks. adding more unnecessary mechanics to a buff ability doesnt help. the need for an ability wheel already is meh. i dont see any problems with placing all 3 with 1 press or place 1 that has all 3 buffs in it. the problems i have with it is having to always hold > cycle > hold > cycle > hold. its quite annoying and slow. equinox has the same problem with metamorphosis deactivating and losing the charge of her 3 and 4.

all 3 of them tie into sol gate. so  as i stated in an earlier post, at no point in time do i not want all 3 buffs active.

I agree 100% right here. I'll add: Get rid of the speed buff before it's too late, make it attack damage and status immunity. Make her enemy disruption one put them to sleep without alarming them. I still hate it. That however will save some stress.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So far I love Wisp in pretty much every game mode I've tried with her. There's just one little fashionframe tweak I'd like, which is colorable Reservoir tips (currently stuck at red, green, blue).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

there is also the problem of having to cycle to recast to remove motes. again all im saying is that it is a sluggish annoyance

I think that there would be a "balancing" issue if her 1 was a single buff with 3 different effects, at no lag time. If it did all three things at once, people would be complaining that it's too overpowered and that it should get nerfed... Which is a bigger "sluggish cumbersome" annoyance than to have time cycle through them (or holding it down for 2.5s).

That "sluggish cumbersomeness" of cycling through different options, is what allows us to have multiple buffs in the first place lol. But yes, it would be nice to have a more efficient way of getting all three buffs down 

 

Sometimes it's worth to out some effort, in exchange for something we want. Otherwise there wouldn't be any gameplay/combat. We would just press one button and everything dies, right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Maka.Bones said:

I think that there would be a "balancing" issue if her 1 was a single buff with 3 different effects, at no lag time. If it did all three things at once, people would be complaining that it's too overpowered and that it should get nerfed... Which is a bigger "sluggish cumbersome" annoyance than to have time cycle through them (or holding it down for 2.5s).

That "sluggish cumbersome to" of cycling through different options, is what allows us to have a variety of options in the first place lol. Sometimes it's worth to have to go through a difficulty, in exchange for something good/worthwhile. Otherwise we would just press one button and the mission is complete. "The end"

All 3 buffs are going to be up at the same time. All the time. They are balanced to be available. The one, tiny detail that keeps it from being just better as choice than a single buff is the fact that sometime you just don't want the buffs. Other than that, I was saying since the first preview of her mechanics that this would suck in any mission that is not defense based, and in those cases since it is basically an infinite buff there is no point in keeping them separate. It is not a balance choice, it is a mistake.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, F8ted said:

It is not a balance choice, it is a mistake.

Well I'm sorry you feel that way; I actually enjoy her. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

Sometimes it's worth to out some effort, in exchange for something we want. Otherwise there wouldn't be any gameplay/combat. We would just press one button and everything dies, right?

Yeah, it would be great, if she wasn't competing for spots against people that do. In that case she could give out buffs in a significantly more ergonomic fashion. Look at Chroma. Why not just let a Chroma afk next to the cryopod and get 5 times the damage buff? Oh and armor on top of that health, cuz we all know you rocking life strike anyway, might as well make that go further. 

You could also, put her next to anyone in any category you imagine, then wonder why she has a harder time doing it than the other. She is not particularly good at buffing, which people will be quick to point out when she applies for her first Eidolon runs. She is about as good at cc as anyone else known for it, save hers is primarily LoS, her shock is pretty good for just this as long as you have the whole team buffed. Her damage is pretty hilariously low, and no one in their right mind would compare her to any DPS frame. 

4 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

Well I'm sorry you feel that way; I actually enjoy her. 

You actually enjoy manually placing all 3 buffs. Why? I mean getting you to actually make any sort of argument rather thank blanketing this thread with praises would be interesting. I mean you basically started with the opinion it would be nice to make it faster/easier. What happened? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to say I'm quite fond of how Wisp turned out, she's pretty versatile and the synergies between her abilities are nice and tasteful, instead of feeling like you have to jump through arbitrary hoops to accomplish anything noteworthy.

The only issues I can think of right now are as follows:

- In squads with multiple Wisps it's really easy to get your motes overwritten by another Wisp's weaker/shorter ones. Seems like a bit of a tricky thing to solve because some people might prefer going all in on strength and some might prefer having a good duration, so just giving one or the other priority might leave a lot of people dissatisfied. Still, even that is universally preferable to the current state of easy getting stuck with a mote that's weaker in both regards.

- Breach Surge's projectile damage is based on the damage of the attack that created it. The fatal flaw here is that it takes the value after reduction from armor, and then the projectile itself has its damage reduced by armor. That means against armored enemies the offensive potential of the ability is almost completely nullified.

- Sol Gate is just not worth using at higher levels. It has no punch-through. Why can a giant beam of solar plasma be stopped by a single enemy? As soon as it stops killing enemies instantly you're pretty much limited to waiting as they die one by one, which feels very underwhelming for an ability of this nature. It's much too blinding, even if purposefully choose energy colors that tone the visuals down as much as possible (which is a bad thing for Reservoirs, because then it's much harder to tell their range). Finally, I feel like the beam is a bit too thin compared to it's visuals. Because of Sol Gate's beam mechanics, you have to aim it pretty accurately to deal good damage with it... much more accurately than the ability's appearance would lead you to believe, in fact.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, F8ted said:

You actually enjoy manually placing all 3 buffs. Why? I mean getting you to actually make any sort of argument rather thank blanketing this thread with praises would be interesting. I mean you basically started with the opinion it would be nice to make it faster/easier. What happened

Making it too easy, would be no fun at all. 

I like it for the same reason that I like the color blue/green/red/purple/ (or the same reason I like anything...) I just do. 

I like playing a warframe that isn't too easy, but still feels strong. It's not a mindless warframe; the fact that she's fragile and doesn't instantly kill/control everything, requires me to think about my gameplay choices--but she does it in a way that still feels fun. That forces me to bring out the best of me during the time I'm playing her. (Edit: Same applies with not instantly having all her buffs, it causes me to play more carefully and pay more attention about my choices. )

I really enjoy that feeling I get with her, and if she were too easy/simple to play (like with less versatility) I wouldn't get that feeling anymore. 

 

Wisp might not be OP, but she feels the most fun to play (which is what matters the most in a game). I really like her how she feels atm. I like that she doesn't immediately kill everything, or immediately control the entire room. I hate taking all the kills, or taking all the fun from other players. With wisp, I can go all out, and not worry about others not having anything to do.  If you have fun playing OP warframes though, then just go play another warframe that's more OP. Like you said, there are already plenty of those.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, CodeUltimate said:

plz don't you are killing the only good skill for her

Hmm too bad cause DE will nerf her.

Its gonna be along the lines of 

"she was never intended to outshine or replace other warframes thus scaling back her power modifiers a bit" is what they are gonna say

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Maka.Bones said:

Making it too easy, would be no fun at all. 

I like it for the same reason that I like the color blue/green/red/purple/ (or the same reason I like anything...) I just do. 

I like playing a warframe that isn't too easy, but still feels strong. It's not a mindless warframe; it requires me to think about my gameplay choices, while still feeling fun to play. That forces me to bring out the best of me during the time I'm playing her. 

I really enjoy that feeling I get with her, and if she were too easy to play I wouldn't get that feeling anymore. 

Aight, well, I wont fault you. That's a pretty good answer. Honestly, perhaps it could be construed that I am looking for her to be a "press 4 to win" type entity. That, I am not, I have all those frames anyway. I am sore she never blossomed into a beautiful stealth flower. What she is now is best described as the odd child of a Vauban and Ember rework. I have given up all hope for that notion, and now I guess I gotta root for her to be somewhat viable in the endless meta. Which she feels drafted into, and doesn't even fit very well. I can see a change from the press a button and wait for next spawn. This is press the same button 3 times and pretend the other buttons do anything besides teleport. My heart is pulled by the very notion she could not escape the clutch of endless missions. She is just support now, and at least for the time being, people are actually applauding her numbers. That's all she is though, and I have a hard time seeing her being better than like 8-9th pick in endless missions from a totally objective, numbers and efficiency based perspective. 

If she must be a cryopod sitter, there should be some reason she has a place. Right now, it's putting totems on the outside of the Snowglobe so you can teleport to it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, F8ted said:

I am sore she never blossomed into a beautiful stealth flower. 

Dude, I used to main stealth missions with Excalibur. I'd use radial blind to sneak past enemies, or to silence them. 

Wisp can definitely still do stealth missions, probably better than anyone except ivara. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, I don't care if there's another "better/meta" warframe, she's still going to be my first pick. 

I was killing lvl 100+ enemies at lvl 18, with my corinth and nikana, without an incomplete mod build, and I was still doing just fine. I wasn't too OP but I didn't have too hard of a time staying alive. She's just about in the perfect sweet spot. 

She's not so strong that we should expect her to get nerfed, but not so weak that she can't solo endgame content. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A frame that I'm going to be aborting missions to avoid, because like Volt she gives a speed buff, but worse than Volt, there is no way to remove it (and the 'solution' for not wanting Volt's buff is a passive-agressive, f-you to everyone who just wants a toggle in options for 'never wants any speed buffs, under any circumstances, ever').

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

Dude, I used to main stealth missions with Excalibur. I'd use radial blind to sneak past enemies, or to silence them. 

Wisp can definitely still do stealth missions, probably better than anyone except ivara. 

Um.... And I used to main stealth missions with Nova because Loki was on Neptune. Like, as I posted here earlier, she can do spy just as well as anyone else, save for the fact she has a teleport when no one is around. Requires some finesse like Loki's teleport, but he actually gets a stealth without it. Shade/Huras goes a long ways and it is definitely necessary if Wisp wants to do any real sneaking. Ash is the low bar, he's better. Hard choice between the actually stealth Loki and the laser immune Limbo for next. Obviously Ivara is the best after proving you no longer need her for spy. Hell, Hydroid can go stealth and pull enemies silently into his pool. I don't think this makes him a better stealth frame than anyone, except Wisp and maybe Octavia/Wukong if we are counting them here. 

3 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

Also, I don't care if there's another "better/meta" warframe, she's still going to be my first pick. 

I was killing lvl 100+ enemies at lvl 18, with my corinth and nikana, without an incomplete mod build, and I was still doing just fine. I wasn't too OP but I didn't have too hard of a time staying alive. She's just about in the perfect sweet spot. 

There is always a bigger fish, and I don't think she's the bottom of the game as far as move sets go. That's Nyx, with 2 of the same ability and a way to augment her other ability to make it 3 of the same ability. She had her time as "Meta" without even a skill change. You were indeed killing them with your corinth and nikana. Same could be said for anyone, and I'm not about pretending like it's all that difficult for other frames as well. Her 2 is as good as it will ever be when you unlock it. They may change the invulnerability window to scale but that's what makes her survive. Straight up invulnerability works wonders. Now image if there was a mod that did this whenever you rolled for no energy. That would be cool right? I mean then they could totally make it just a decoy that stealthed her as well, and people could just build a mod on her and have the same thing. 

There is overpowered rampant in this game. She is nowhere near that bar, and she has a hard time doing what she is supposed to do to boot. Sure you are capable of running Excalibur through whatever mission you want, you wouldn't have to even use any abilities. Does this mean there is no point to balancing the game? I'm pretty sure it's actually a darn good reason. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, F8ted said:

Motes

 Also, come on, didn't we learn from Volt's 2? INB4 incoming.

 

2 hours ago, F8ted said:

Pretty sure since Volt had a 5 alarm fit thrown over his 2 being an obligatory speed buff, this will get it's share of flak too.

 

1 hour ago, F8ted said:

I agree 100% right here. I'll add: Get rid of the speed buff before it's too late, make it attack damage and status immunity. Make her enemy disruption one put them to sleep without alarming them. I still hate it. That however will save some stress.  

 

21 minutes ago, polarity said:

A frame that I'm going to be aborting missions to avoid, because like Volt she gives a speed buff, but worse than Volt, there is no way to remove it (and the 'solution' for not wanting Volt's buff is a passive-agressive, f-you to everyone who just wants a toggle in options for 'never wants any speed buffs, under any circumstances, ever').

😉 Welcome. I had brought this concern up on your behalf. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, ChaosSabre said:

Yes complain bout only skill that is any good on her.

Also remember Octavia exists.

I remember her. To this day many dps mains want her nerfed but keep their nuke frames  kicking. Octavia and wisp are fine. It's not like people want to use their brains playing this casual fest of a game anyways. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@DeVieEtMort Woah, does that mean the tic rate can be gamed by simply moving it off an onto an enemy? Well there you have it folks. That's how it does damage. Kind of cool but I can't remotely see how that's intentional. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, F8ted said:

 

 

 

😉 Welcome. I had brought this concern up on your behalf. 

DE will never learn that peoples movement speed should not be affected by another frame. i hate speed on volt but wisp is not as fast so i dont mind it when its being reasonable but how her kit just benefits hard from power strength yeah id take a nerf to speed mote to make it self buff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...