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[DE]Danielle

(The Jovian Concord: Update 25) Wisp Feedback

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2 hours ago, F8ted said:

No one is going to put two plus mods on their Warframe to avoid procs. I definitely said Rolling Guard was the only one worth mentioning because hell it is the best part of Wisps 2 with the ability to clear status effects for no energy. You can build Rapid Resilience. You can also build provoked. Not very many people do that. Besides having faster health regen it, it literally prevents each team mate from dying once every 90 seconds. Team damage buff? Smite infusion: adds 100% radiation damage to allies attacks for 40 seconds. Haste mote: adds 30% attack speed. That's baseline a 70% damage difference, Oberon scales better with ability power since it has a higher percentage to begin with. That's a "more than twice as good damage buff". Better nuke? Besides Reckoning dealing 1900 damage vs 1000, it deals it in a radius rather than basically a single enemy spawn pack. It also instantly remove 30%+ ability strength armor, and just for the Hek of it heals. Just two less than 1 second casts removes all armor and deals around 4000 damage to all enemies within 15m. That's two corrosive procs from Sol Gate worth of time. Honestly, this was not actually debatable, but good show simply saying "no that's not how it works" without any evidence. With Oberon, given his dominance of the support field (at least relative to Wisp) people are definitely going to hold on to a flat damage bonus, automatic revival, nuke that not only works but doesn't blind your own team. This thread is currently 100% people who bought Wisp in the first place. It hasn't even gone through enough time to actually be built. Numbers don't lie, especially in a game where a 5% status/crit chance makes or breaks a gun. 

smite infusion has to be slotted and is target specific whereas speed mote is an aura of the base frames power. i never see any oberon players using smite infusion. you are forgetting that breach surge turns enemies into pax seeker with a modable damage modifier. again with pheonix renewal oberon has to equip another mod just for you to make this comparison. wisp has no augments so i dont know why you are trying to compare an augmented frame to one that isnt augmented.. building wisp has no relevance here. this is a feeback thread about how shes plays/feels, and if there are any problems or ideas for improvement because people own her, and not a thread about how people think she plays because of not being released yet.

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2 hours ago, F8ted said:

No one is going to put two plus mods on their Warframe to avoid procs

I do..? A lot of people already do. 

Pls stop trying to change wisp's kit into something entirely different. Just play titania instead.

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3 hours ago, LazyBunnyKiera said:

DE, just thought of a change that would make Wisp's #4 feel a bit better. Right now it's a bit underwhelming. It's hard for me to pull out my #4 when my guns do just as much.
~~Snip~~
Lastly.. Let us cast our #3 (double radius) while #4 is active. So we can get some damage cascades going.

Yesssss to everything this player said...  Especially the last bit though; it would be incredibly helpful.

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3 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

I do..? A lot of people already do. 

Pls stop trying to change wisp's kit into something entirely different. Just play titania instead.

i know i do for infested arbi. rapid resilience antitoxin aura and regular mod. then i just laugh at all the toxin damage/procs.

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2 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

i know i do for infested arbi. rapid resilience antitoxin aura and regular mod. then i just laugh at all the toxin procs.

Same! And wisp's gameplay & kit allows her for a lot of versatility, without sacrificing her effectiveness. It's easy to have many different builds with her, so using unconventional mods (anything that isn't duration, or power STR) isn't going to hurt her.

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my big ones.. 1. can i please be allowed to actually see when I use Sol.. 

2. can the icons for the pods on the map be shrunk some or something.. if you've like 2+ wisps etc on a map they become a pain in the rear

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https://www.livescience.com/34469-purple-stars-green-stars-star-colors.html

 

Tl;dr Blue/White Blue stars are the hottest possible stars, while Red and Orange stars are average/cooler stars. (Fun facts The White and Blue Stars have shorter wave-lengths than the Red and Orange ones, which have longer wave-lengths.) (There are also Neutron Stars, Pulsars and Starquakes (Starquakes is basically earthquakes here on Earth but on a neutron star and other massive bodies).

 

Then there are White Drawfs that turn into Black Dwarfs (Black Dwarfs doesn't emit any heat or very little) While White Drawfs are stars that are cooling after the Red Giant phase. (Which is the fate of our Sun how many so billion years from now).

 

So now that we know that wouldn't Sol' Gate appear to have a bluish tint to it if you have slightly above Power Strength or blue/white if you have a lot of Power Strength? and a black/dark color if you have negative Power Strength? 

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2 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

smite infusion has to be slotted and is target specific whereas speed mote is an aura of the base frames power. i never see any oberon players using smite infusion. you are forgetting that breach surge turns enemies into pax seeker with a modable damage modifier. again with pheonix renewal oberon has to equip another mod just for you to make this comparison. wisp has no augments so i dont know why you are trying to compare an augmented frame to one that isnt augmented.. building wisp has no relevance here. this is a feeback thread about how shes plays/feels, and if there are any problems or ideas for improvement because people own her, and not a thread about how people think she plays because of not being released yet.

I've played her. She needs serious help. Why in the world do you care about slotting augments that actually do something when you just literally suggested Rapid Resilience+Antitoxin? Oh I get it, math is hard and serves to counter your point. Feedback:

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1094901-the-jovian-concord-update-25-wisp-feedback/?do=findComment&comment=10779157

I gave points to every single ability as they are in the game currently. As they feel to play. They suck I say. I go on to point out people are in another world of Delusion because even Oberon, someone not known for being a damage buff frame buffs your team damage more than Wisp. I could say the same about: Chroma, Banshee, Frost, Ember, Mirage, Nova, Octavia, Rhino and Saryn. 

2 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

i know i do for infested arbi. rapid resilience antitoxin aura and regular mod. then i just laugh at all the toxin damage/procs.

You put a legit aura and another mod slot, when it takes one mod, or hell anyone with a Status immunity to avoid it? I'm glad I've got someone of your theorycrafting skill to argue against. 

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2 hours ago, Maka.Bones said:

I do..? A lot of people already do. 

Pls stop trying to change wisp's kit into something entirely different. Just play titania instead.

I've got Titania. Just about a week after she was introduced because flower farming took forever. A lot of people level up the damaged mods when the start the game too.... Since I started at the same time the mod system itself was introduced, I never made that mistake. I am providing feedback on Wisp, in the Wisp feedback thread, who was introduced 4 days ago. Oh hey look at that magical number? Guess what this means? Now people that simply farmed her and didn't already just want to buy her for floatbutt purposes, will join in. 

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 Here are my thoughts on Wisp. Allow me to give context to my point of view. I am a min maxer at heart and whilst I love seeing frames optimized, I do not want to force some meta over creativity. As such I try my best to make very frame viable well into the higher levels. From that, I have a respect for frames that can scale like crazy especially those that are more of hidden gems. With that being said, Wisp does this poorly. 

 

Wisp is a fun frame. She has a lot of mobility, great survivability, and great buffs that are useful all around. However, she falls short in some areas and I believe if we tapper up these areas she will become a great scaling warframe.

 

Reservoir

This ability is great. I must applaud you DE for making a deployable feel natural on such a high mobility frame. However, it lacks a streamlined feel to it. Whilst it is good that you can cast this ability while in motion, i find myself waiting too long on the cast to the point that it is uncomfortable. It clashes with her mobility greatly.

This can be rectified in two ways. Either keep the cast time as is but upon cast the reservoir summoned had all three buffs in it. This is the most streamlined option and would make it much easier for to make use of Pax Bolt and Growing power. This would also help her function more smoothly in an extermination setting and other missions like that. This would require redistricting the amount of reservoirs to three for balance sake

The other option is to speed up the casting animation greatly and allowing the reservoirs to be deployed at range. Speeding up the animation about 50% and giving the ability to deploy at range would streamline the ability nicely. This would make it easier to combo reservoir into breach surge and even, by extension, help her in extermination missions. This would make it significantly harder to use Pax Bolt and Growing power, however, it would help smoothen her kit.

 

Will-O-Wisp

Absolutely fantastic ability. The amount of control and movement this offers is interstellar and on top of that you recieve damage immunity. There is not much to be desired here, but I will mention that prehaps the held version of this ability either gain more move speed as it flies or.flies faster in general. It would be great if the held version of Will-O-Wisp pace replicated that of Nezha's Blazing Chakram when held. This is a small detail but would make her feels leagues my streamlined.

 

Breach Surge

This ability pains me. Out of her whole kit,, this ability and Sol Gate let me down the most. After reading what it was to do ans watching the video, I was excited to use it and I was met with disappointment at the results. My expectations was that I was recieving a Pax Seekee esque ability that would turn Wisp in a great multi target damage dealer. It made me think of all the single target weapons that could become sk good in her hands. More specifically snipers and shotguns. Yet, it did not work the way I though it did. I find myself only using this ability for the mobility it offers. Here are some things that if changed can make this ability crazy good.

Remove line of sight on this ability. Now I understand this is probally put in place to prevent the abuse of a bkind that goes through walls, but i feel as though it hinders this ability. I suggest that blind only activate when enemies are in line of sight but thos who are not still get marked with the surge.

Make the damage jumping much greater. The chance of triggering is a fine stat but the damage those balls do should be edited. They should do full damage and then multipled by a precentage.

Remove the necessity of having to teleport to the reservoir to double your range. This double range should proc when standing in the zone of a reservoir.

 

Sol Gate

First off, very pretty ability. Very well designed in look. However, this ability is poor in many other ways. 

The ramp mechanic does not apply to the beam but rather it seems to work as iff the enmy is behind debuffed. I feel that the beam should just ramp only when fixated on an enemy. It own damages inscreaes.

The reservoirs should do mroe for the ult. Prehaps the add more special effects like the red mote increasing the beam's width and the blue mote doing rh einscrea 50% damage.

Sol gate toggle should make the beam tick faster so it is able to do more damage. Furthermore,, the base energy cost is to high currently and could use some adjustments.

 

TLDR- Wisp has massive potential. With simple changes, she can florish much like the reservoirs from her owm dimenson

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you know what i like about vermintide? you cannot have multiple of the same character in the group. there is no need for 2 rhino, 2 limbo, 2 trinity, 2 wisp, 2 oberon, 2 harrow, 2 nova, 2 frost. all these overlap problems come from having duplicate frames in the group. this also destroys healthy group composition.

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I'm a bit sad they didn't add some sort of gimmick for crossing ultimate beams with another Wisp. Maybe make it explode on the contact point or something?

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5 hours ago, lRipperonis said:

https://www.livescience.com/34469-purple-stars-green-stars-star-colors.html

 

Tl;dr Blue/White Blue stars are the hottest possible stars, while Red and Orange stars are average/cooler stars. (Fun facts The White and Blue Stars have shorter wave-lengths than the Red and Orange ones, which have longer wave-lengths.) (There are also Neutron Stars, Pulsars and Starquakes (Starquakes is basically earthquakes here on Earth but on a neutron star and other massive bodies).

 

Then there are White Drawfs that turn into Black Dwarfs (Black Dwarfs doesn't emit any heat or very little) While White Drawfs are stars that are cooling after the Red Giant phase. (Which is the fate of our Sun how many so billion years from now).

 

So now that we know that wouldn't Sol' Gate appear to have a bluish tint to it if you have slightly above Power Strength or blue/white if you have a lot of Power Strength? and a black/dark color if you have negative Power Strength? 

Pretty sure Wisp is using the day star / our sun...

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13 minutes ago, Neptlude said:

Pretty sure Wisp is using the day star / our sun...

While we're on this topic wouldn't the entire planet Wisp is currently residing on (and herself for that matter) would be destroyed almost instant due to the Radiation, heat and gravitation force of the sun? (Wisp probably has something to resist this.) But yikes. Also, it could be any Celestial Body WIsp is using (Just going based on our energy colors). It could also be a core of a planet too.

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Well, time for my 2 cents on wisp 😄

I played around with her for a few days now and overall I'm very happy with her current state. Wisp is a master in the middleground of healing, buffing and cc-ing. Compared to other Warframes her values are a bit weaker (e.g. her heal is around 10-15 h/s behind oberon with simliar values + oberon gives armor boost) and that is fine since she has such a broad spectrum of what she is capable of.

My top 3 points I like about Wisp:

  1. Reservoirs don't have a duration. Nice bonus in endless missions like defense while you want to recast them in modes like spy or extermination anyway.
  2. That immense combo of her 3 with 2 AND 1. Took me quite a while to figure out how to coordinate the teleport AND the second instance blind. Nicely done DE!
  3. That sound when you left click while using her ultimate is absolutely fantastic. It feels like you have that death star beam at your fingertips 😄

Now let's take a look on the things that should be different or are bugged.

First of all, I've found her 1 to use a VERY strange way when calculating the strength of the buffs. The power strength is not determined on cast of the reservoir but on actually buffing someone with it. This leads to strange interactions between her 1 and things like energy conversion, grwoing power, equinox or nidus power strength buff or void buffs. You can get 2 different buff-values out of the very same reservoir. As this is completly counter intuitive and works different than every other ability in the game I really hope this is some kind of oversight or plainly a bug and will be changed. On top of that, Reservoirs shouldn't only refresh the buff, but apply a stronger buff, if they are capable of. Running around with 2 wisps and always refreshing the weaker buff is no fun.

The next thing is her pretty inconsistent working 3. It seems to have the very same problems Hyldrin had with her 2 on release, where slight differences in elevation make this ability non-functional. Additionally, enemies behind objects aren't always hit by it, even if it looks like her ability bypasses that object. You should clarify if we need line of sight (or even line of effect?) and the effect should apply even if an enemy is slightly higher/lower than the cast.

Furthermore, the blind on her 3 doesn't seem to apply for the whole duration. After around 3-4 seconds enemies start running around again, while others seem to be disabled (standing in idle pose doing nothing at all).

I also see a problem with the sparks her 3 can create, as they are not spawning with killing blows. I think this is not a good way to handle this. Sure, if you can kill that enemy fast, you probably kill the other enemies around it in the same pace, but it's a bit of wasted energy at that point. You get the blind, but lose the damage, only because you are strong enough? Sounds odd to me. How about a similiar system like Ash uses. Ash gets the energy of marked enemies back, if they die before he can kill them. Wisp could get some energy back if enemies that could produce sparks get a killing blow WITHOUT producing at least one spark.

Almost finished, so let's talk about her ultimate. As mentioned a few times before the cast is just too bright. I play on 100% effect intensity and I shouldn't have to tone that down just in cause of this one ability. Other than the brightness, the visuals are awesome. So please just change it so I won't be blinded by my pocket sun, add sunglasses or something like that ;D.

This was mentioned already also: Her ultimate doesn't apply damage to some enemies and applies damage very inconsistent to other. Enemies that seem to be immune are Eximus units, Cpt. Vor, Hyekka Masters now and then (can't understand why some are damaged and some not, sorry). I'm not quite sure about ancient healers at this point. Could have been another healers aura. For other enemies I would expect it to apply it's damage at some consistent intervall, yet I failed to determine this intervall so far. Could it be that - in cause of it's nature as "beam weapon" - some damage ticks are displayed summarized while others not? A bit confusing here.

Last but not least one thing about her passive. For the first 2-3 hours playing her, it was very hard determining if I was invisible or not. It sometimes still is, if there are a lot of effects active. Would you mind to change her invisibilty from "glowing in energy color" to the already known and approved "getting transparent"? That would make that passives up and down times much clearer and better visible.

The few problems mentioned above put aside, wisp is a very well concepted and strong support frame with excellent balance of the games 3 most important areas - heal, buffs, cc. Her various combos make her easy to use but hard to master. Well done DE! I'm excited to see the fixes and test her in full glory 😉

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3 hours ago, Lucian_Adrion said:

 Here are my thoughts on Wisp. Allow me to give context to my point of view. I am a min maxer at heart and whilst I love seeing frames optimized, I do not want to force some meta over creativity. As such I try my best to make very frame viable well into the higher levels. From that, I have a respect for frames that can scale like crazy especially those that are more of hidden gems. With that being said, Wisp does this poorly. 

 

Wisp is a fun frame. She has a lot of mobility, great survivability, and great buffs that are useful all around. However, she falls short in some areas and I believe if we tapper up these areas she will become a great scaling warframe.

 

Reservoir

This ability is great. I must applaud you DE for making a deployable feel natural on such a high mobility frame. However, it lacks a streamlined feel to it. Whilst it is good that you can cast this ability while in motion, i find myself waiting too long on the cast to the point that it is uncomfortable. It clashes with her mobility greatly.

This can be rectified in two ways. Either keep the cast time as is but upon cast the reservoir summoned had all three buffs in it. This is the most streamlined option and would make it much easier for to make use of Pax Bolt and Growing power. This would also help her function more smoothly in an extermination setting and other missions like that. This would require redistricting the amount of reservoirs to three for balance sake

The other option is to speed up the casting animation greatly and allowing the reservoirs to be deployed at range. Speeding up the animation about 50% and giving the ability to deploy at range would streamline the ability nicely. This would make it easier to combo reservoir into breach surge and even, by extension, help her in extermination missions. This would make it significantly harder to use Pax Bolt and Growing power, however, it would help smoothen her kit.

 

Will-O-Wisp

Absolutely fantastic ability. The amount of control and movement this offers is interstellar and on top of that you recieve damage immunity. There is not much to be desired here, but I will mention that prehaps the held version of this ability either gain more move speed as it flies or.flies faster in general. It would be great if the held version of Will-O-Wisp pace replicated that of Nezha's Blazing Chakram when held. This is a small detail but would make her feels leagues my streamlined.

 

Breach Surge

This ability pains me. Out of her whole kit,, this ability and Sol Gate let me down the most. After reading what it was to do ans watching the video, I was excited to use it and I was met with disappointment at the results. My expectations was that I was recieving a Pax Seekee esque ability that would turn Wisp in a great multi target damage dealer. It made me think of all the single target weapons that could become sk good in her hands. More specifically snipers and shotguns. Yet, it did not work the way I though it did. I find myself only using this ability for the mobility it offers. Here are some things that if changed can make this ability crazy good.

Remove line of sight on this ability. Now I understand this is probally put in place to prevent the abuse of a bkind that goes through walls, but i feel as though it hinders this ability. I suggest that blind only activate when enemies are in line of sight but thos who are not still get marked with the surge.

Make the damage jumping much greater. The chance of triggering is a fine stat but the damage those balls do should be edited. They should do full damage and then multipled by a precentage.

Remove the necessity of having to teleport to the reservoir to double your range. This double range should proc when standing in the zone of a reservoir.

 

Sol Gate

First off, very pretty ability. Very well designed in look. However, this ability is poor in many other ways. 

The ramp mechanic does not apply to the beam but rather it seems to work as iff the enmy is behind debuffed. I feel that the beam should just ramp only when fixated on an enemy. It own damages inscreaes.

The reservoirs should do mroe for the ult. Prehaps the add more special effects like the red mote increasing the beam's width and the blue mote doing rh einscrea 50% damage.

Sol gate toggle should make the beam tick faster so it is able to do more damage. Furthermore,, the base energy cost is to high currently and could use some adjustments.

 

TLDR- Wisp has massive potential. With simple changes, she can florish much like the reservoirs from her owm dimenson

Agreed with everything but what you said in the reservoir (atleast the first option): We should still be able to cast the buffs individually. Sometimes I only want the speed buff and if I'm playingly stealthily or for example... hunting animals in PoE/Vallis, if I am with the electricity proc it'll mess everything up. However I do agree with the second part: Increasse the cast speed by 50%. Currently, my wisp build is running natural talent so that I can buff myself quickly, because without it, it feels limiting to wisp's mobility to slowly deploy the 3 buffs.

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I was extremely exited for Wisp and couldn't wait to see her introduced.

...She's pretty much the next best thing to hot garbage.

 

I wish her reservoirs dealt passive damage in an area around them, or had their own radial effect tied to the buff type it has.

I wish Sol Gate wasn't trash.

 

 

I was really exited when Wisp was first revealed that she might be a great Interception, Excavation, and Disruption frame with her 3 as it was shown,  but it seems to have been changed into a fairly janky ability.    I'm not sure she'd even be any good at all on Interception, Excavation, or Disruption missions now.

I was highly skeptical Sol Gate would ever be good from the start,  and look at that,  it's awful as expected.  The only damage dealing abilities that are good are the ones that scale,  and the ones that use weapon mods.

 

Sol Gate should start out as a thin beam and have it scale the more damage it deals kind of like a reverse Mallet,  and when scaling the portal opens larger,  for a larger beam.  

Alternatively,  make it work like an Exalted Weapon,  or a Pseudo exalted weapon (Like Gara's 1, effected by mods even though it doesn't have its own tab).

Her 3 could even scale the same way, and from the same source.   As in she has her portal,  and her portal is her access to the sun, so the strength of her portal effects both 3 and 4's damage.  

 

She desperately needs it.    

 

 

She also REALLY needs the ability to toggle off the dumb scarf things.  They clip all over the place and practically exclude the possibility of using Syandanas on her.    Her scarfs NEED to be syandanas that come with her helmets,  much like how a number of prime frames have their own accessories.  

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Wisp's noble animation makes it look like she's leaning back too far... 

I really don't have any other complaints than that, most armor sets do look kinda odd on her though

Overall, IMO, she's an 8.69997

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Unable to teleport to Wisp's Reservoir with Breach Surge if the Reservoir is surrounded by Frost's Globe.
Assuming the same applies with Gara/Limbo's 4th abilities but haven't checked.

We also really need a custom animation for Wisp melee. It makes no sense that she floats around but then runs when chasing down an enemy.

 

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Could you guys just... skip straight to titania & wisp prime please?  

That would be lovely~

Edit: Oh and Ivara too... after wisp though.  😛

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I've seen a few requests to be able to place 3 Reservoirs at once. I would also like to have a less cumbersome way to do this as well, so I created a quick (probably not the best) mockup example of how it could be done

Spoiler

iiJZkFY.png

Holding 1 beyond the initial cast will bring up a charge meter. All 3 reservoir types will be visible, but the selected mote will already be filled once you've gotten to this point so that it doesn't punish the player for holding the button down longer than needed. The remaining motes will fill up in order that they are cycled through. The player can release at any time, even releasing only 2 motes if they desire. Once charged, Wisp will place the Reservoir around her, draining the appropriate energy for each one.

 

Aside from that, I really only think Sol Gate could use some buffs and a visual nerf. Otherwise she's perfect 🙂

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6 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

Could you guys just... skip straight to titania & wisp prime please?  

That would be lovely~

Edit: Oh and Ivara too... after wisp though.  😛

i did a test in the simu on 6 160 C. Bombard because i wanted to see what these claims of lack luster damage and dislike for breach surge is about. you know what i found? they melted quite easily while being CC locked. i dont know what people are expecting. you should not be able to kill a lvl 100+ enemy instantly. the icing on top is any enemy under the effects of molecular prime, sonar, accelerant or any other damage amp adds on top of it. i thought the tick rate was going to be an issue but constantly swiping the targets put that to rest. its as i thought. if they increase the tick rate of sol gate it will push it over the top and need a nerf.

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5 minutes ago, EchoesOfRain said:

~snip~

making it slower will make it more cumbersome not more fluid.

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On 2019-05-23 at 12:16 PM, Smilomaniac said:

So, no matter what syandana you put on her that isn't a backpack, her flap will clip through in multiple places and it looks like an absolute disaster.

I get that sometimes you want to have things flowing off of the warframe, I can even understand that you don't want to look immature with the 'flowing sprint butt' and I understand that sometimes you've rushed a frame through a little bit, but this isn't alright.

Your game already takes up a premium 36 GB, most of which are probably textures that people will have to spend money on to get and a lot of us did in fact spend actual currency getting the tennogen or plat to buy your own cosmetics. The very least you can do is do the minimum amount of visual QA and make sure that it looks halfway decent on release.

Thank you for the work you have done, the new tileset is amazing, the new game mode isn't half bad and the ropadopadingdongshamalamahumpadingersupercalifragilisticexpialidocious bossfight is a step up from the norm, even if it's riddled with bugs. Now remove the damn flap or hide it when there's a syandana on.

I do wish it could be toggled even if it’s only when wearing a syandana, I love Wisp and would love to use Tennogen on her but currently it’s a hot mess. 

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