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[DE]Danielle

(The Jovian Concord: Update 25) Wisp Feedback

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Wow good job Sir! I like everything that you write. Exept some point on the 4.

Thanks!

11 minutes ago, MarketShark said:

it took kinda long time

This is the big issue. It takes significantly longer to kill "end game" enemies than almost every other exalted weapon.

11 minutes ago, MarketShark said:

Screen shake

There is an option to turn it off.

11 minutes ago, MarketShark said:

"Severely restrict turning" no pls probably this worst than screen shake.. But i'm scared... Sol gate seems a hard ability to balance. More damage? can be OP af.

If the ability is tuned to do enough damage to kill lv 100-150 in a competitive amount of time the movement and turning must be restricted otherwise you end up like that gif. I show of the player spinning around as fast as possible and killing everything. Peacemaker currently has this problem. Limited targeting area but free movement and very high damage so the most effective way to use it is to spin as fast as possible. Which is very stupid both in looks and gameplay wise.

11 minutes ago, MarketShark said:

I like thos the Idea of give damage to Sol gate thanks mod. But i don't know. This is not an exalted ability. This is not a weapon.

I think mod scaling makes the most sense. With the game's current balancing our mods already scale somewhat appropriately with enemy strength. Turning damage abilities, especially ultimate powers into "weapons" means they too will scale appropriately as enemies get stronger. If the damage were fixed it can be tuned too high (too powerful at all levels) or you get the ember problem (too powerful at low levels, too weak at high levels).

11 minutes ago, MarketShark said:

Her 3 , Surge i think is.. useless?

Agreed. The blind is good but otherwise. Yeah.

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1 minute ago, ADirtyMonk said:

There is an option to turn it off. 

Oh sorry i misunderstood what you wrote. I tought you was saying to add a perma screen shake no matter what.

2 minutes ago, ADirtyMonk said:

I think this makes the most sense. With the game's current balacing our mods already scale somewhat appropriately. Turning damage abilities, especially ultimate powers into "weapons" means they too will scale appropriately as enemies get stronger. If the damage were fixed it can be tuned too high (too powerful at all levels) or you get the ember problem (too powerful at low levels, too weak at high levels).

Didn't think of that. Maybe this is true, and can work . Maybe boost Sol Gate with only elemental mods? I'm bad a those thing honestly.

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3 hours ago, MarketShark said:

Her 3 , Surge i think is.. useless? I use it kinda often in arbitration but i NEVER see any kind of projectile hitting the enemies, and if happen is just for few hundreds, pretty useless besides be an almost instant cc.

It feels cool for the teleport concept of it, and it works as a brief blind, but the other "special" aspects of it definitely feel like they need some work... It would be interesting if they merged her current 3, with the original Ideas they had with the different types of reservoirs. (Using it by itself could still cause blind. While using it to teleport to a reservoir, would cause a damage AoE+status effect; based on the color/type of the mote)

Edit: BTW her passive, and her 2, supposedly give her brief periods of invincibility--which would really help, since she has low armor and no damage reduction-- but i'm not well versed on it yet. I haven't learned how to use it effectively. 

Also, if her 4 did OP damage with slow turning... maybe while she does that, she should get some damage mitigation? (Damage reduction) Squishy mobile caster works for her atm, but if she's gonna be static for OP DEEPS she might also need a boost in tankiness to defend herself. 

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Il y a 9 heures, F8ted a dit :

 

--snip--

I made some tests regarding Sol gate (I'll make a thread about it later).

 

I'll just place my conclusions here.

1. Sol gate increases damage the more it ticks on an enemy.

2. Sol gate ticks every 0.5s with all hits proccing a status effect.

3. Sol gate reaches a certain damage cap after about 20 ticks, i.e. 10 sec. This is 500% the listed damage in the UI (uncharged).

4. Holding the LMB or boosting the beam increases the damage output by twice. The damage after reaching its damage cap is 1000% the listed damage in the UI

 

All of the conclusions above did not take the reservoirs' synergies into account.

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Personnally, after playing and enjoying Wisp a lot, i've got something to point out :

Please change the Shock Mote electric (insignificant damage) and stun, to work only in Line of Sight.

Please remove Line of Sight requirement from Breach Surge (3).

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As in title, her reservoirs are not overriding the weakest buffs with the strongest. This is super frustrating when a wisp with barely any power strength comes in an has a quarter of my effect. Or If I trigger growing power or energy conversion, it wont update either. Please fix this.

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9 hours ago, ADirtyMonk said:

I think mod scaling makes the most sense. With the game's current balancing our mods already scale somewhat appropriately with enemy strength. Turning damage abilities, especially ultimate powers into "weapons" means they too will scale appropriately as enemies get stronger. If the damage were fixed it can be tuned too high (too powerful at all levels) or you get the ember problem (too powerful at low levels, too weak at high levels).

I definitely think you are correct in this statement. Modding the Exalted weapons is some semblance of balance in the fact that it doesn't just remain the same level of effective since launch. We would not be applauding Saryn's damage were it not for her "redesign" that just gave her some higher numbers to compensate her lack of scaling. Though making a balance pass every couple years for each Warframe ability is doable, it must take an enormous amount of DEsign attention. Balancing them relative to mods gives some sort of anchor point. That being said, I dream of a day when most Warframes find most of their kit useful. This is an enormous retroactive undertaking. For now "Exaltifying" abilities seems the best course. Look at whipclaw.

6 hours ago, DeVieEtMort said:

I made some tests regarding Sol gate (I'll make a thread about it later).

 

I'll just place my conclusions here.

1. Sol gate increases damage the more it ticks on an enemy.

2. Sol gate ticks every 0.5s with all hits proccing a status effect.

3. Sol gate reaches a certain damage cap after about 20 ticks, i.e. 10 sec. This is 500% the listed damage in the UI (uncharged).

4. Holding the LMB or boosting the beam increases the damage output by twice. The damage after reaching its damage cap is 1000% the listed damage in the UI

 

All of the conclusions above did not take the reservoirs' synergies into account.

It's always good to get cold hard numbers. I'm glad you went through this kind of effort. All this being said, and like @ADirtyMonk it is tuned poorly with these numbers. I'll put some filler to your observations, which I will assume as factual.

1. This is great. In any sort of form if we are expected to hold the ability on a single enemy, this basically has to exist. My concern is this may be somehow "recorded" as a variable on a single enemy, or a debuff. This would mean of course the damage would increase only relative to the number of times that enemy was hit. This gives us that hilarious GIF, and those Similacrum videos of swiping between multiple enemies. If it was how many consecutive tics hit a single enemy "recorded" as a variable on Sol Gate, it would not benefit us to swing it wildly to hit each enemy as often as possible.

2. This is a little slow for comfort sake. They really had a good idea going when they fixed regular beam weapons for ergonomics sake:

Update 22.14

Fixed Beam weapons not being able to damage enemies (alive but in a ragdolled state) when being affected by certain ‘crowd control’ Abilities.

Damage now ramps up over 0.6 seconds and after moving off target there is a delay of 0.8 seconds before it starts to decay over 2 seconds.

All Beam weapons now start their Damage ramp up at 20% (instead of 10%).

3. Kind of an extension of #2. Even if we were going with beam weapon scaling and simply extending it past 100% to 500%, the damage ramp up would take a total of 3 seconds on the same enemy. Granted if we assume the 500% is the actual intended damage, sort of like how beam weapons start at 20% of their value and ramp, that would mean effectively Sol Gate starts at 20% damage and ramps up 25% damage each tic, twice a second for 10 seconds. That is 16.666... times slower than your pocket supra. 

4. Definitely interesting an add, because it's basically Blind Rage built into the ability itself and I will offer very little besides the fact that this feels even more like Ember's WoF mechanic in laser form than ever before. Could it just do this automatically? Sure, and at the base cost of the ability not very many people would notice. I like it feels like I'm doing more when I focus it, and sounds different. It just doesn't do much more, and maybe some other effect besides increase both damage and cost could be implemented. 

 

The reservoirs fortunately should be like # 4, in that they don't affect the actual algorithms for the others, but simply add another bonus to damage. As if someone had been running Power Donation for you. The big difference is the corrosive procs, which at least shows that DE was well aware of the inherent Armor issue. These have a very special place in theorycrafters' hearts because they actually determine how fast you kill a higher level armored enemy (100+ Grineer) rather than the base damage of the weapon itself. Or in other words, it is much faster to strip armor from enemies than it is to simply blast through the armor. If the ticrate of the laser was about 5-6 times as fast (closer to a natural beam weapon) this would actually make it competitive with those beam weapons. Still much better armor strips exist, and since it doesn't viral or toxin, there are going to be times it suffers against shields, though to a much lower degree.

All this said, like in the videos posted in this very thread, there are ways around the tic rate problem. It's kind of a shame that it seems exploity, but as long as it's in the game.... I remember a time when Mirage's clones broke the logic of the thrown weapons, and you could charge a throw then proceed to just melee over and over and they would keep throwing more. Didn't take them long to fix that one lol

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Another simple synergy that would significantly buff Sol Gate: When a surged enemy is hit by Sol Gate, they have a 30% higher than normal chance to spawn a surge spark.

 

Also, why can't Wisp cast her 3 while her 4 is in use? I can understand not letting her cast it off her own body, but at least let the decoy surge enemies.

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10 minutes ago, atejas said:

Another simple synergy that would significantly buff Sol Gate: When a surged enemy is hit by Sol Gate, they have a 30% higher than normal chance to spawn a surge spark.

 

Also, why can't Wisp cast her 3 while her 4 is in use? I can understand not letting her cast it off her own body, but at least let the decoy surge enemies.

surge sparks are 100%.

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2 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

surge sparks are 100%.

Are they already? My mistake, I have no idea what's actually happening on screen when I use Sol Gate.

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5 minutes ago, atejas said:

Are they already? My mistake, I have no idea what's actually happening on screen when I use Sol Gate.

when you dont see them its because surged enemies are not in range of other enemies or they flew into a wall or ceiling.. its not like pax seeker that shoots them off reguardless. definitely needs some work though. either for them to pass through geometry or to make them also double down on the same enemy (meaning sparks can target the one that is being shot).

Edit: they probably should add spark radius to the tooltip

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i ran into an issue where there were multiple Wisps in a squad and I kept picking up other Wisps’ vitality motes. I was lv 30 with 235%power strength and there was a Wisp that was much lower level (5 I think) with an unmodded strength. We had cast our 1 abilities in the same general area (Hydron defense) and when I entered that area physically or through teleportation to a mote I ended up picking up the lower level/strength Wisp’s vitality mote instead of my own. Once applied it also stayed as their mote until I allowed it to expire. I worked around this by casting my own vitality mote across the map and running over there to get it applied if I ever did accidentally pick up the lower valued mote. It was pretty unsettling to sometimes be locked into 500 or so less HP than you were expecting. 

Maybe create a logic that applies the highest power strength value when you are in an overlapping aoe of motes? Or always take the values of your own casting in an overlapping aoe?

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22 minutes ago, Slayer_of_PCs said:

Or always take the values of your own casting in an overlapping aoe?

id love this. while i know people run high str builds i dont but would like to keep my buff at the strength that i use.

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1 hour ago, atejas said:

 

Also, why can't Wisp cast her 3 while her 4 is in use? 

She’s a little preoccupied with the GIANT SUN LASER!

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Il y a 2 heures, F8ted a dit :

-snip-

Hmm. I was wrong. Charged sol gate does more than 1000% damage after the damage scaling cap is reached.

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I'm getting very inconsistent results with Wisp's beam. I actually think it might be bugged in some way.

Case in point I fired at an enemy -> heat procced and he started flailing around -> I held the beam on him and he took no damage at all until he suddenly died. I know there's a ramp up of damage but this has been happening over and over for me. I aim at the enemy and they take no damage (not just little, none) and then they get instakilled. This is againt all factions (so it's no healer ancients running around).

I've been having issues where a single enemy in a group (the same enemy type, not heavy) is undamaged while everyone around them dies.

This combined with the fact that it's hard to even see what's going on while using the beam makes judging the worth of the ability pretty hard. Status procs might interfere with the ability or the radius is so small that it's possible to miss a single enemy in a group of enemies, Either way the ability just behaves very weirdly for me.

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3 minutes ago, LocoWithGun said:

I'm getting very inconsistent results with Wisp's beam. I actually think it might be bugged in some way.

Case in point I fired at an ancient -> heat procced and he started flailing around -> I held the beam on him and he took no damage at all until he suddenly died. I know there's a ramp up of damage but this has been happening over and over for me. I aim at the enemy and they take no damage (not just little, none) and then they get instakilled.

I've been having issues where a single enemy in a group (the same enemy type, not heavy) is undamaged while everyone around them dies.

This combined with the fact that it's hard to even see what's going on while using the beam makes judging the worth of the ability pretty hard.

That issue affect Bosses and DeathSquads/Assassins so it’s not just Enemies like Ancient Healers. But i do hope it’s a bug.

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Wisp's Sol Gate seems way to bright for my taste, can we tune down her effects a bit?

When i use it i can barely see what i aim at at times.

Same for her pods on the map as icon, red ones especialyl confuse in finding enemys as example.

Why do those need icons anyway? Frosts, bubbles, Garas Wall, Garudas Blood Altar, etc. not have any of those.

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7 minutes ago, Marine027 said:

Wisp's Sol Gate seems way to bright for my taste, can we tune down her effects a bit?

Change your energy color, into a darker shade. Black = Invisible. 

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BTW a stealth reservoir would be pretty sweet.... and so would a dedicated one for teleporting (one that can't be replaced just by cycling through the other ones)... And ofc the ability to summon several ones at the same time, would be very useful. 

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Hello,

 

Wisp is a cool looking frame, brining the buffs to the defense. And thats about it.

Remove the token abilities 2 (decoy) and 3(blind), split the 1st and let it take over 2 and 3 and make em timed abilities so you can press ur ability keys from time to time. Unlimited time seems to be a bit lazy for me.

Reasons for that are the decoy is not a practical thing, you dont go and use it to distract enemies in a spy mission or turn the aggro from a defense objective, and even if I would do that like this, it needs duration. The travel option is not there too, no nezha speedboost or close to any kind of "fast travel".

The 3(blind) is not practical coz 1st of all, u have a electric stun with a higher range, a  straight up better CC, in Your 1! Why would u use the 3? Its fine as a damage dealing thing but than again, range and duration need to be higher. Forcing to cast it on ur 1 to get the same value as any other frame gets by base is not the way to do it^^ instead increase the base range by 5 m, so ur still below the base range, but its not aweful and u have a actual benefit if u cast it on the 1st as the range is higher as on lets say a radial blind. It should be kind of a reward not a mandatory thing.

The 4 is kind of cool, channeling the sun, but can we do it so we can see things? And the soundeffect is horrible, the sound of 10k screaming lifeforms? Get out of here^^

And honestly, I dont see or feel the portal theme on this frame, I see a frame that gives amzing buffs to the whole group in the form of beautiful flowers.

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vor 15 Minuten schrieb Maka.Bones:

Change your energy color, into a darker shade. Black = Invisible. 

I am aware of that but thats not the point of it is it. It would be a simple nice change as QoL for fashion.

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9 minutes ago, Tuench said:

And honestly, I don't see or feel the portal theme on this frame, I see a frame that gives amazing buffs to the whole group in the form of beautiful flowers.

Dude... she literally summons everything from portals, and even teleports herself via portals. Every Time she opens a portal, you hear the sound of screams from the underworld (or whatever that sound is)

And her 2 and 3 are awesome for survival (though they could be improved on). Why would you ever want to get rid of CC, damage boost, and their travel capabilities altogether?

Also they're not flowers.... they're plant spirits, summoned from the nether realm (hell plants). There's even a glyph based on them lol

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