Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

[DE]Danielle

(The Jovian Concord: Update 25) Wisp Feedback

Recommended Posts

53 minutes ago, TheGuyver said:

First of all, this belongs in feedback. Second, putting umbral mods on a frame doesn't turn it into "Umbral X" and that drives me up a wall seeing it literally everywhere. 

This isn't feedback.  It's not direct at DE at all.  If it was, I'd have focused on just how bad her 4 power is and made suggestions for improving it.  Of course, since one of those suggestions is "Completely rework the damage model" I'm pretty sure it'd be a bad idea to hold my breath waiting for that.

Second, my Umbral Chroma doesn't care what you think about "Umbral X," and my Umbral Inaros laughs in your direction.  My Umbral Frost just rolled his eyes.  My Excalibur Umbra, on the other hand, was in total agreement with you.  But he's still salty about the whole being betrayed, murdered, and forced resurrection thing, so nobody takes him that seriously.

In other words, there is a difference between Umbral X and X Umbra.  Maybe you should pay attention?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Xavori said:

My Excalibur Umbra, on the other hand, was in total agreement with you.  But he's still salty about the whole being betrayed, murdered, and forced resurrection thing, so nobody takes him that seriously.

have you tried tea and turning the radio on in your quarters? mine is also pretty content being a laser light show turret with a fire rate built supra vandal 

still waiting for playable komi boards and hoping i can play against umbra also surprised a lot of his stuff isn't ship decorations like his little guitar thing  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed - needs to have its damage application to whatever the beam weapons are at right now as opposed to once per second. Some other buffs would be nice but damage application needs to be tuned ASAP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really happy with what Will o Wisp does. truly makes her solid for high levels. So she seems to be a stealth support type of frame, with very good dps capabilities. kind of like Octavia.

I think she'll be very solid when or if Sol is significantly buff. but even without it, she works well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

I'm pretty sure (check's OP) it's not just implied; it's explicitly stated. 

and you ruined the chain. Thanks a lot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After hunkering down with Wisp (I really like her, despite the flaws I'm noticing) I've decided to drop my feedback.

Passive: It's alright. Makes for fun, "the floor is lava," situations. Wouldn't change it for anything because it's both thematic and situationally useful as every passive should be.

Reservoirs: I get that you guys want people to interact with these on a frequent basis but I feel like their default duration might be just a bit too restrictive. 30 seconds isn't a long amount of time in Warframe. As it stands, I find myself having to place a few, "check points," within the level that allow me to refresh my buffs as I travel between the two. It works but it's a pretty cumbersome system.

Cycling between the three different buffs seems almost entirely pointless. Again, the key word is, "cumbersome." While I understand that each mote offers a different buff, the buffs are not so powerful that combining them into one would break the game, especially if they're duration based and require you to constantly return to them in order to keep the buff refreshed. It's workable but it's not enjoyable.

The synergy with Breach Surge gives you enough incentive to place plenty around, should you know how to make effective use of it, however, but you're still limited in this usefulness by the fact that you have a hard limit of 6 reservoirs split among 3 different buffs.

EDIT: Not allowing the buffs to refresh with a stronger version until the original runs out is also incredibly annoying. Both Growing Power and corruption during a relic run have left me scratching my head as to why I can't change out my regular powered buffs with the stronger ones. I haven't tested this with another Wisp player's buffs yet.

Will-O-Wisp: Simple, effective. I find that it makes difficult encounters into child's play as you can toss one after the other out and shoot at the enemy to your heart's content as they continue to shoot at the distraction. In that capacity it's a 100% A+ ability but in other capacities it could use a more useful utility.

The teleporting function is only ever useful in situations where switch teleport is while outside of combat. Theoretically you can cast it in a direction you want to go and then tap the button at the end of the timer for a quick retreat but you'd be far better off casting it into the group of enemies while bullet jumping in the opposite direction. The fact that it draws fire is almost counter intuitive to the idea of teleporting, as well, because you're essentially moving directly into the line of fire while only covering the distance of a few bullet jumps, at most, especially if you have the haste mote activated.

I'm not sure that removing the teleportation function would actually solve anything but I think it appropriate to point out that it's almost counter-intuitive in any combat situation to use it. I would suggest something like a temporary damage invulnerability upon teleporting to it, or allowing the distraction to reflect damage in a similar manner to Unairu (as in not a lot).

Breach Surge: I have no complaints with this one. It functions well as a group CC tool as well as a damage ability, supposing you're actually attacking the blinded enemies. The synergy with Reservoirs makes defensive missions incredibly fun, for me, as well as popping back and forth between, "check points," in survivals, and the synergy with Will-O-Wisp is useful even if it is a bit tacked on and basic.

Sol Gate: Only useful for free Corrosive and Radiation procs once you get to higher levels, which is fine. The damage abilities, in the game, have never been reliable as you scaled up your endless runs and I didn't expect this one to be any different. It looks neat and has two of the more useful procs in the game attached to it (even if one requires the use of the shock mote).

If I had to suggest a change to it I would change the function of holding the fire button. Instead of a slightly larger beam with more damage I would ditch the higher damage and make the beam less focused. Cause Wisp to open a larger gate that hits a larger area so you can spread more status procs and hit more enemies at once instead of killing that one guy a little faster.

Stats and other Etc: Aesthetically I think her alt helmet is great. I find her default helmet to be too reminiscent of the Goombas from that awful live action Mario Bros movie from way back in the day to even consider using it. The rest of her theme is great and I find that you guys really did a great job making her feel like she, "flows."

Statistically I think you've found a good middle ground. She has the stats of a support but her buffs allow her to play a little more aggressively while also opening up other modding options. A well balanced, basic build with no real heavy focus in any one area can still make full use of Adaptation and her entire kit to allow her to survive even in tougher end-game content.

Fashion wise I do have to raise a complaint about having her two available helmets clip with nearly every Syandana in the game. It's neat to have the flowing cloth physics and I understand that it was probably a priority to cover her rear end but it severely limits the choices on what looks good during gameplay.

 

She's one of the first frames, in a while, that's seriously making me consider sharing my play time with my beloved Oberon/Prime. That's not easy to do, for me, but this one is doing it pretty handily.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

and you ruined the chain. Thanks a lot.

oh, cringe. This was one of my "you must be fun at parties" moments. My bad. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Morticoccus said:

In just the last three missions I've been in I've had people spam reservoirs all across the map that give a little more than half my buff strengths...

They should at least make you able to shuck any currently attached pods by backflipping.

Thats an idea xD


But for real, the amount of times Ive got a measly 32 health per second versus my 90.... ughguggug

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

why are we talking about things being op in a pve game...how is something op if? you are just? not fighting other players? i dont understand this maybe it makes no sense to me 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Naomi_Hearts said:

why are we talking about things being op in a pve game...how is something op if? you are just? not fighting other players? i dont understand this maybe it makes no sense to me 

Because if there is no semblance of balance then you get super levels of powercreep.  A great example is many weapons we have are trash in comparison to other weapons in the same class. No, that isn't progression, arguably it's lazy design, but it makes weapons no more than mastery fodder, and sadly, same for some warframes.

 

So while you might not realize that powercreep is a bad thing, it is. 

 

As for wisp, I'd say her 1 2 3 are fine, a bit powerful, her weakest link is.. her 4, which is funny because it's the brightest thing about her kit.

Jokes aside, have you guys tried teleporting with her 3? So far furthest is 1100-1200m in PoE. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Chipputer said:

The synergy with Breach Surge gives you enough incentive to place plenty around, should you know how to make effective use of it, however, but you're still limited in this usefulness by the fact that you have a hard limit of 6 reservoirs split among 3 different buffs.

Yeah, 9 reservoirs might be easier/more intuitive to work with. I think having different reservoirs might also be more understandable with their original intended use of her 3 (they would explode and do AoE damage + status proc, appropriate to the color of the reservoir). I think a nice alternative might be if her 3 still did an elemental+status type of explosion, when you teleport to different reservoirs (as opposed to only blinding enemies). Maybe it'll be a future augment though. 

1 hour ago, Chipputer said:

The teleporting function is only ever useful in situations where switch teleport is while outside of combat.

Hold down the button, and it moves much faster (for quicker positioning). It moves fast enough to not get much attention from enemies... or maybe they just turned off the aggro function while it's moving fast. (It would be a good thing for them to consider, if they hadn't already)

1 hour ago, Chipputer said:

Sol Gate:If I had to suggest a change to it I would change the function of holding the fire button. Instead of a slightly larger beam with more damage I would ditch the higher damage and make the beam less focused.

Would be a really cool idea for an augment. "Solar Flare" kek

I enjoyed reading how you explained the things you liked and disliked btw. Especially "the floor is lava" lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Play with her on harder stuff OP, she's definitely underpowered as usual. Her 4 should be way stronger. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Xavori said:

3. Breach Surge.  This is another brain-required ability.  At first glance, it kinda looks like Saryn's spores in a lower damage and slightly RNG'd form.  Hell, it synergizes amazingly well with Saryn as Saryn's spore damage will proc Surge sparks which will proc Saryn's spores which will proc sparks, and you see where this is going, right?  Same thing with Garuda's bleeds which is how I accidentally discovered this synergy when I ran into a Garuda on a defense map and we kept killing all the things.  Heck, you can multiproc yourself using the shiny new Cyanex.  So far so good.

But then you run into the problem with Warframe as a game.  For whatever reason, DE keeps forgetting that this game is Warframe and not Generic 3rd Person Shooter Game, and so they either wreck or make useless purely offensive abilities (as opposed to hybrid abilities like Titania's Razorwing or Mesa's Peacekeeper, or self-buffing offensive capable abilities like Mirage's Mirrors or that dragon-ish OP thing with all the colors).  If you try to proc Surge sparks using normal damage weapons against high level advanced enemies, you're utterly wasting your time.  Your pathetic sparks are not even an annoyance to a level 100 Grineer Bombard.  So don't do that.

Where this ability is good, other than synergizing with Saryn or Garuda who don't worry about armor so much, is in using those big tough guys as an AoE to kill everything else via a hard hitting not-normally-AoE weapon.  Do you know what happens when you start proc'ing even 20k Rubico Prime shots?  You start spitting out sparcs that do 120k radiation damage (at 300 ability strength).  This is especially fun with things like her signature Fulmin which has a wide enough beam in semi-auto to hit multiple targets to spit out multiple sparcs.  Room cleared other than prolly the advanced critters.

Oh, ya, this also blinds enemies giving you the stealth damage bonus, but not finishers.  So there is that too.

to be honest, I think it would be better if wisp's 3 was more like Anthem's interceptor's wraith strike (Interceptor projects a ghost of itself that can warp up to 3 targets.)

 

(skip to 2:19)

It could be that it could warp to different enemies a certain number of times that is affected by ability strength. The ghost would have a large attack radius which means she only attacks enemies in the radius and can multi-hit enemies (example if the ghost has 10 warps but only 5 enemies are in range, enemies are attacked by ghost twice). If enemies were in radius but step out of range, the ghost will still warp to that enemy. can have a max of 3 ghosts active at a time. Additionally, if undetected by enemies, using the ghost would result in the ghost performing a finisher for those stealth runs.

Also would be nice if the passive still worked when wall latching or wall running

 

other ideas not worth looking at

Spoiler

2 ability

-instead or holding button to make the specter go faster, holding button allows wisp to pin point exactly where to teleport (think Dead By Daylight's Nurse's blink and Over Watch's Reaper's shadow step)

-specter's speed when holding button moved to tapping button

 

 

 

whoops accidentally made a feed back post

uhhhhhh.......

Dab?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, ShimmerDoll said:

Play with her on harder stuff OP, she's definitely underpowered as usual. Her 4 should be way stronger. 

doesnt her 4 get stronger the more your blast an enemy and cant it also be channeled for even more power 

i have wisp and played with her abit i havent sat down with bob the bombard and did a in-depth test against him but with the build i had (no power strength just default) it killed it in about 5-6 seconds channeled took longer 15-20 seconds unchanneled but roughly the same amount of energy burned around 250-300 of my 850 pool 

context edit: level 100 bob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really enjoy wisp because she honestly is the first frames to feel more like a side grade than anything to everyone. If you wanna ask for a nerf look at octavia.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my opinion the visuals are nice and the damage is something you can work with but there are two things that could be improved:

1.) The Beam needs some kind of punch trough or aoe effect close to the area of impact. It´s feels odd that enemies behind your target are not affected.

2.) Haste Mote Resavoir should increase the cast speed or whatever the equivalent to weapon fire rate is called for abilities. Maybe cast speed in general should increase the tickrate of channel abilities. This way Natural Talent for example would be very usefull for her ultimate.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All Observations were made by using a strength power maximized Wisp build

Animation she use walk animation with melee and archwing atmo gun. really...disappointed.

Breach surge is nice but do nothing on one shot enemy.wish there was no minimum distance to do the powered version on a reservoir.

Sol gate burn my eyes retina, I will not lower my particle setting below ludicrous and am fine with that.

The reservoirs buff are spectacular. The haste is great with charge weapon like opticor. The sprint buff make you feel anxious for the 41th "runner'' frame kit. Just speculating but getting 2 warframe back to back giving a run for Volt money gonna at least give a "yawn deja vu" feel. The health augment (with regen) is sometime bigger then the actual health bar augmented👌🤣 The nuisance come with playing with other Wisp when the first buff stay and get renewed by other wisp reservoirs no matter the strength it possess. the tazer wisp is icing on the cake that can be use to denial part of the map by using a few extra of them.

Will-o-wisp because you have so much speed and durability because of reservoir buffs I never feel the need to use it for distraction. I could use it for the blind but Breach surge do the same thing with a debuff.

Wisp as much as Hyldrin perform beyond expectation. 2019 is a great year so far as far as new frame goes.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Tinklzs said:

Jokes aside, have you guys tried teleporting with her 3? So far furthest is 1100-1200m in PoE.

I'm pretty sure the only restriction on it is LoS, so as long as your cursors changes.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Xhobract said:

EDIT: Btw DE, what's up with Wisp not having her pretty particles anymore when she goes invisible. I currently have a coating in her energy color instead.

Yeah, it's honestly hard to tell when she's invisible now since all you have is swirling energy. The best thing to do would still be to bring back the effect seen in the trailer imo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Atsia said:

I'm pretty sure the only restriction on it is LoS, so as long as your cursors changes.....

Seems like it - really enjoy that movement, along with her 2 allows for mobility no other frame can match.

Look towards excavator, press 2, got 7-9 seconds to find a power cell then TP to the excavator.

Same with flowers. Just super satisfying. Just did a 1 hour arby, seems everyone was happy with the CC/movement/health.

 

Personally, I'd design her 4 to chunk health with a 'ultra fire' or something. Even if it means you need to combo with her 3 to do so. I'd also rewrite her lore to be grabbing a nearby star, instead of the / a sun.

Then rework ember so that she has the power, similar to a sun. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have some issues with breach surge. For a CC ability the default range is way too small and for a damage ability, it seems unreliable - sometimes I'll see loads of surge sparks and other times zero. As a stun/blind ability like radial blind it should also trigger melee finishers to be on par with what other frames can offer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Ramflare said:

I have some issues with breach surge. For a CC ability the default range is way too small and for a damage ability, it seems unreliable - sometimes I'll see loads of surge sparks and other times zero. As a stun/blind ability like radial blind it should also trigger melee finishers to be on par with what other frames can offer.

The range is much larger, when you use it while teleporting into a reservoir.  Best strategy is to teleport to one, then back (Or use will-o-wisp's fast movement mode to teleport away, then teleport back into the reservoir)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Arcira said:

2.) Haste Mote Resavoir should increase the cast speed or whatever the equivalent to weapon fire rate is called for abilities.

This is what i thought about for the Haste Mote. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Maka.Bones said:

The range is much larger, when you use it while teleporting into a reservoir.  Best strategy is to teleport to one, then back (Or use will-o-wisp's fast movement mode to teleport away, then teleport back into the reservoir)

I know this but this seems a very awkward strategy to compensate for the ability having significantly less base range than something like radial blind - which is almost identical in usage and costs significantly less energy than having to cast 2 abilities to achieve the same effect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ramflare said:

I know this but this seems a very awkward strategy to compensate for the ability having significantly less base range than something like radial blind - which is almost identical in usage and costs significantly less energy than having to cast 2 abilities to achieve the same effect.

from how the ability looks it probably should have had a range just like molecular prime, polarize, pillage where its spread is based off duration.

Edit: a nice augment for this power could be that sparks surge unsurged enemies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...