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(The Jovian Concord: Update 25) Wisp Feedback

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7 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Fixed Wisp’s Sol Gate ability being able to damage Nullifier bubbles (and then killing the Nullifier). This follows precedent with other Warframe abilities that were fixed (Revenant).

Why? ūüėß Shouldn't the nullifier bubbles only affect void energy? Wisp solgate unleashes the SUN!! The sun isnt void energy...

I thought it was a cool detail that DE allowed the nullifier bubble to get damaged by Sol gate, since its the sun's power not wisp that was doing the damage...

 

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19 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

so many complaints about sol gate. id actually like DE to stop making damage 4th abilities. people expecting to replace arsenal with frame powers is whats wrong. i dont mind sol gate at all it has CC (heat, radiation), deals bonus damage to alloy armor (radiation) and strips armor allowing it to do better against armor. nope people want it to delete everything it touches.

increasing the damage of this ability will make it no different than dex pixia. id rather they just replace it with something non damage than to make it into press 4 to win.

I'm inclined to agree: I think there's potential to give certain frames mode-switching damage abilities if there's genuine interaction with the rest of the kit (e.g. Exalted Blade and Radial Blind), or if there's a strong enough gate to prevent the ability from being used all the time (e.g. Baruuk's Restraint for Serene Storm), but all too often the ability boils down to "forget everything else, you're doing this thing now". When the ability does not interact with the rest of the kit, the frame becomes a fairly shallow one-ability-wonder when using it (e.g. Revenant or Titania), and when the ability has no proper gate (and Energy isn't a proper gate due to how easily it can be generated at higher levels), there's practically no reason to use anything else but the ability all of the time. Sol Gate can be used on-demand at all times and the only synergy it has with Wisp's kit is forced, so it is not surprising that it would run into those exact same issues. In the future, if DE wants to add more weapon-like abilities, they should make sure those abilities let the rest of the frame's kit breathe and still see proper use.

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Wisp is a great warframe, lots of fun and has some nice abilities. There is one problem though, something that will very likely eventually lead to it not doing so well in higher level content.

Wisp's Reservoirs do not affect allies, only warframes, despite the description saying that they do affect allies.

This may seem like a small thing till you think about her Vitality Mote specifically. This means that your warframe may be doing fine but your companion dies over and over. It means that it does nothing to help make Moas and Dogs/Cats survivable in places where they would die over and over. It means that Wisp can't be used on Sortie Defense, Eidelon Hunts, or a lot of other important high level content.

And while pets and companions are useful, that last thing (the fact that she can't be used as an actual support in high level content) is what will almost certainly consign her to the pile of mostly unused warframes.

This is a real shame, since I really do like using her; but if I have to choose between bringing a useful frame to high level content and bringing a fun but not useful frame... then I'm not going to force my team to have to carry me just so I can do my own thing. And this means I can't use Wisp like I otherwise would love to be able to.

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vor 11 Stunden schrieb Neptlude:

Why? ūüėß Shouldn't the nullifier bubbles only affect void energy? Wisp solgate unleashes the SUN!! The sun isnt void energy...

I thought it was a cool detail that DE allowed the nullifier bubble to get damaged by Sol gate, since its the sun's power not wisp that was doing the damage...

 

Hey Revenant was first >_> and it was also cool on him!

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-06-05 at 11:32 AM, Teridax68 said:

I have mixed feelings about Wisp. On one hand, the frame itself looks phenomenal, has fantastic animations (though I wish she had her own crouch-walking animations), and has a few interesting aspects to her ability set. On the other, I think her kit doesn't really work all that well with itself, as noted by all of the forced interactions between abilities that don't really have anything to innately do with each other. On top of that, while it's less severe than on frames like Khora or Revenant, I think there's a degree of thematic dissonance to Wisp: what I expected and wanted was a subtle and unconventional warframe who used portals and ghost-like abilities in unique ways, but instead most of the time I've spent playing her boiled down to laying plants and shooting big sun lasers.

My point-by-point on the kit:

  • I like the passive, and feel it has tons of potential for interesting uses in combat, though I'm not getting the best visual feedback from the effect because it doesn't seem to cloak Wisp as she's in the air (it does cloak my Sentinel, though).
  • I don't like how Reservoirs play, to be honest. The static reservoirs are a drag in a game where the player is often encouraged to move from place to place, and when I do lay down a reservoir, I'm either casting the health one just to make sure I'm retaining the buff, or I cast all three at once, which takes a bit of time and busywork. The buffs themselves don't particularly seem to generate any novel or interesting gameplay, so much as make me stronger, and on top of that they take a very large amount of visual real estate with the three pods hovering around my frame. The ability itself doesn't feel especially portal-like, even if Wisp's pulling her weird plants out of some portal.
  • On the flipside, I really¬†like Will-O-Wisp. It's a simple, yet unique and versatile ability that fits well with a ghostly frame, and plays well with Wisp's passive.
  • Breach Surge feels like a more fickle Radial Blind. Many others have already noted that the low status chance on the unique proc means it rarely works in regular play, and no part of the ability itself really feels appropriate to Wisp's theme or gameplay. The one aspect I liked about this ability was how Wisp could use it to teleport to her Reservoirs, which I don't think has any relevance to the ability itself.
  • Sol Gate sticks out like a sore thumb on Wisp: on one hand, it's generically satisfying to fire a big laser at a crowd of enemies, but on the other, it really feels like the last effect one should be giving to Wisp. It's far too direct and clumsy for what seems to be a more elusive and ethereal frame, and it not only has poor synergy with her kit (all of its synergies are forced, i.e. the damage/Corrosive boosts with Reservoirs and modified Breach Surge status chance), but actively impedes gameplay her other abilities try to encourage, namely a focus on speed, aerial hit-and-run combat, and misdirection. It's one of those press-4-to-win abilities that dominates the frame's kit, while also making its playstyle far less deep in the process.

I mostly agree with this post and would like to add to it. I personally love Wisp and have really enjoyed using her. I'm loving this wisp/ghost theme she has going and I'd like to add some ideas that I think would make her an amazing frame, all things considered.

Passive: The idea is great, and gives her a lot of possibilities and synergy for getting the most use out of it; but I agree that it's currently difficult to visually see that it's active and working. I'd like to see her a little more obviously transparent while the passive is active.

Reservoirs: I can see how a lot of people don't like the stationary nature of the reservoirs. I think they are awesome though. Really useful for anything other than captures/exterminates where the goal is to move quickly from one destination to the next. Honestly, who needs buffs for these kinds of missions anyway? Otherwise, I personally like designating a "buff point" where my teammates and I can go to pick up or refresh the buffs. Personally, I don't like the plant theme on them though. I would love to see little floating ghost lights for the reservoirs, and little floating ghost lights for the motes hovering around the frame. You could also make them bright lights so they are easy to spot in game without having to find them on the mini map. This would better fit her wisp theme as well. As far as the buffs, I love them for their practical use. Having a huge health buff, constant close range CC and an awesome movement/melee speed buff really give her some fun capabilities. She is a really fun melee frame with all the buffs active. I do think it's weird to give a wisp/ghost frame electricity procs, but I'm not gonna argue with the awesome close range CC capability it gives her and all her teammates. 

Wil-O-Wisp: This ability looks too dam amazing. The floating ghost animation and sound effects made my jaw drop. Great job DE. I agree with some of the other complaints though that the ghost moves way too slowly. It's only useful in extremely stationary situations where you have to wait for the slow moving apparition to get to the desired place and THEN, FINALLY, you can teleport to it... It has honestly been a pain to use it to its full effectiveness because you might as well queue the elevator music while you wait for it to get somewhere. It never works when you are moving because you will always teleport behind yourself if you try to teleport while running or bullet jumping. It would be nice if it travelled a lot faster if casted while moving so that you could use it as a blink ability to move more quickly across the map. It would also look cooler and would be more fun than just bullet jumping over and over again. There is also a lot of potential for the CC (fear / confusion / decoy) and I love the synergy with her Breach Surge. Using Wil-O-Wisp and then teleporting into a crowd of enemies with an immediate blinding Breach Surge + shocking CC from her shock mote reservoir is hella fun. I just wish we could get more use out of it without waiting forever.  EDIT: Nevermind, just found out there's a hold option to make it go faster lol. That's more like it!

Breach Surge: Like I said above, this ability has been a lot of fun to use. I love the synergy with Wil-O-Wisp and also love the synergy with her reservoirs where you can teleport to them before blinding nearby enemies. I personally wish it would open blinded enemies up to finishers, giving her WAY more possibilities as a fun melee frame.

Sol Gate: I agree with all the other complaints about her 4th. It looks cool, but it's basically useless. I personally never use it and I agree that most people feel like it has no return for its cost. High energy cost + unable to use any other weapons/abilities + low damage + no other utility = useless. Here's my suggestion for a Sol Gate rework: What if her ult instead, channeled a long range version of Djinn's Fatal Attraction, drawing enemies within range towards Wisp (increases with range mods) while building a damage counter as it's channeled, accumulating more damage the longer it's channeled (increases with damage mods). Then upon pressing the ability button again, that accumulated damage is released in a massive explosion of light (the sun), damaging and blinding all enemies within range. This would be incredibly useful, fun and would fit her theme perfectly.

Go go #ghostframe!

 

 

Edited by GhostFeng
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Wisp Specters currently DO NOT use skills. They basically jus run around, rarely shooting.

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3 hours ago, EnderDDT said:

Wisp is a great warframe, lots of fun and has some nice abilities. There is one problem though, something that will very likely eventually lead to it not doing so well in higher level content.

Wisp's Reservoirs do not affect allies, only warframes, despite the description saying that they do affect allies.

This may seem like a small thing till you think about her Vitality Mote specifically. This means that your warframe may be doing fine but your companion dies over and over. It means that it does nothing to help make Moas and Dogs/Cats survivable in places where they would die over and over. It means that Wisp can't be used on Sortie Defense, Eidelon Hunts, or a lot of other important high level content.

And while pets and companions are useful, that last thing (the fact that she can't be used as an actual support in high level content) is what will almost certainly consign her to the pile of mostly unused warframes.

This is a real shame, since I really do like using her; but if I have to choose between bringing a useful frame to high level content and bringing a fun but not useful frame... then I'm not going to force my team to have to carry me just so I can do my own thing. And this means I can't use Wisp like I otherwise would love to be able to.

Equip life link on your kitty, your kitty gets the boosted health.

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6 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

I'm inclined to agree: I think there's potential to give certain frames mode-switching damage abilities if there's genuine interaction with the rest of the kit (e.g. Exalted Blade and Radial Blind), or if there's a strong enough gate to prevent the ability from being used all the time (e.g. Baruuk's Restraint for Serene Storm), but all too often the ability boils down to "forget everything else, you're doing this thing now". When the ability does not interact with the rest of the kit, the frame becomes a fairly shallow one-ability-wonder when using it (e.g. Revenant or Titania), and when the ability has no proper gate (and Energy isn't a proper gate due to how easily it can be generated at higher levels), there's practically no reason to use anything else but the ability all of the time. Sol Gate can be used on-demand at all times and the only synergy it has with Wisp's kit is forced, so it is not surprising that it would run into those exact same issues. In the future, if DE wants to add more weapon-like abilities, they should make sure those abilities let the rest of the frame's kit breathe and still see proper use.

Sol Gate's synergy IS NOT restricted to only Wisp's 1. Her 4 causes 100% proc chance for her 3, as opposed to mere 10% from all other sources.

Though using her 3 and then her 4 for a couple seconds, rinsing and repeating seems tedious, having 2 wisps in squad would allow one to spam 3 while the other spams 4. If Wisp specters actually used their skills, players could jus use those.

Her 3 makes her 4 DELETE lvl 150+ mobs. The issue isn't players thinking an ability should replace the rest of their arsenal - it's the fact that players aren't reading wikis.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Morticoccus said:

Equip life link on your kitty, your kitty gets the boosted health.

I see you didn't read what I said. So let me repeat it for you.

Not affecting companions/pets is a pain, but not affecting allies means that she can never be used for high level content. Most people get to the point where they can heal themselves if they really need to enough. There are 2 arcanes, a sword mod, certain weapons, health restores, etc. What they can't do is protect objectives, especially mobile "ally" type objectives. Without that her abilities just won't fit into a carefully designed 4 man group, and likely never will.

That said, I'm not sure if this is something I should be putting up here or in the bugs forum.

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Getting away from Sol Gate for a moment. I enjoy the Reservoirs but feel they could be more streamline for the high mobility throughout a mission with a faster casting speed and allowing mote swapping mid cast. I think it would help Wisp perform better in missions that usually have players run through in a single go, example being capture and sabotage.

Any thoughts or criticism on this? 

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Only a few things after 7 forma that i really want changed.

- Smooth out teleport to reservoir

Half the time i end up casting a default Breach Surge just because a unit walked slightly in front of the reservoir, and either have to stop and try again (which defeats the point of teleporting to get there faster), or just move on and settle for hitting half as many targets. This also happens when i stack reservoirs on top of each other. Slightly moving your mouse on a stack of them can get rid of the teleport indicator, even if you are still directly looking at the reservoir and don't break LoS. I would remove the line of sight requirement

-Run/Sprint animation for Melee. Seeing Wisp run like normal just cuz she has a sword is very off putting.

-I want to cast Breach Surge while I am praising the sun

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4 hours ago, giglyfoot said:

Sol Gate's synergy IS NOT restricted to only Wisp's 1. Her 4 causes 100% proc chance for her 3, as opposed to mere 10% from all other sources.

... where exactly did I say Sol Gate's synergy was restricted to her 1? I said Sol Gate's synergy with her kit was forced, and in my first post on this thread I mentioned the forced modifier to Breach Surge's status chance on it. It feels like you had a premade reply ready to go before even reading what I had to say.

4 hours ago, giglyfoot said:

Though using her 3 and then her 4 for a couple seconds, rinsing and repeating seems tedious, having 2 wisps in squad would allow one to spam 3 while the other spams 4. If Wisp specters actually used their skills, players could jus use those.

And somehow requiring two players to pick the same frame, just to spam one ability on each end, isn't tedious or convoluted in any way?

4 hours ago, giglyfoot said:

Her 3 makes her 4 DELETE lvl 150+ mobs. The issue isn't players thinking an ability should replace the rest of their arsenal - it's the fact that players aren't reading wikis.

I think you're missing the point entirely here, because the issue is that players don't want an ability to replace the rest of their arsenal: players seem to actively dislike press-4-to-win abilities that dominate their frame's kit and playstyle, and Wisp's 4 is from that same mold, only with a few extra steps in-between. Having to cast some abilities beforehand, which have no innate synergy with her kit, does not prevent the fact that her own press-4-to-win ability has no real place in her ability set, and its strength at killing high-level enemies is not an excuse for its poor design.

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Posted (edited)

Hello. I have been playing wisp a lot since her release, paid for her on day one and been enjoying her kit a lot and have given her a huge number of forma. but there is one thing that bugs me some times and its the amount of Reservoirs we can have down at once, since they don't stack like some other abilities do when placed on top of one another I would like to be able to place more then 6 down at a time.

because of the number of different reservoirs we have I find it hard on a large map to just have 2 sets down at once and from traversing from room to room its hard to place them down with out losing a set some where else I'd like to have 3 sets down of each so they can be used from place to place and teleport to easier for wisp herself but for other teams mates I think they would enjoy having more down so they don't feel like following wisp every where she goes and make her job a little easier on placement. 

well that's what I would like I know 6 is a big number in itself but not when your putting her reservoirs down in two sets. two healing two speed, two shock. but it is if your just using one or two of her reservoirs like 6 healing across a cross the map but most people enjoy having speed down also and I enjoy the crowd control from shock, so I am finding it hard to have less then the 2 sets down on a a map like interception for every one.

 

TLDR: Would like to have more reservoirs down at once to allow wisp to have 9 down at once allowing her to have more freedom of placements and options.

Edited by .Fire_Fly.
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Personally, I am fine with 6 but I could see 9 being totally fine and probably better.

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it's already new meta. stop this "buff here, buff there" crap.

 

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First and foremost I want to get it out of the way and say Wisp is fantastic From her kit, to animations, she and the Fulmin have managed to relight the fire in me for Warframe; we'll bring that fire bit back later for an Ember post I'm sure... So today's discussion will cut right through to the one thing that just doesn't quite sit right still, yes it's Breach Surge. The ability in it's current form fits Wisp's motif but in use it feels more like baby's first Molecular Prime from Nova. So how do we fix it to be a little more interactive in use, well I hope to add a few suggestions to such.

-Commit to the Molecular Prime vision and remove this weird line of sight thing Breach Surge currently has. Decent size, gradual spread over duration and range, blind and current proc effects. This would likely be the easiest quick fix. It's not pretty but it's a small quality of life that would give just enough to the ability.

-Make the damage proc chance affected by ability power or generally increase the current static proc chance. Higher chance, general better use over time and stat commitment. This has another added benefit of helping the lesser geared as much as the higher geared player.

-Allow the surge procs to attack multiple enemies in a small AOE rather than a singular. The current model of one guaranteed proc on enemy death is neat but doesn't add much on average. The change would give Wisp some easier and immediate AOE in lower end missions that aren't around turning the sun into a deadly laser. Besides, procing a Pax Seeker along with a rain of Breach Surge sparks would be pretty fun.

-The final suggestion involves a tuning up of game mechanics and a small visual change to Reservoirs as well. Simply put, allow Wisp to see her own Reservoirs through walls up to a certain distance (Range mods based even perhaps) and allow her to teleport to them through any surface as long as she is looking at one. Along with this the targeting could use a little fine tuning and improved hitboxes when attempting to teleport as I've personally at least had some struggles doing so, but that might also just be my old man aiming skills at work. Regardless the ability to teleport rapidly between points across a map would further that wraith like frame motif as well as possibly encourage players to spread out Reservoirs into more than just two bundles of buffs as seems to be the general norm.

Any single one of these I feel might be just a lovely little contribution to the abilities overall use, because as it is right now I honestly forget about it half the time. Hope it helps.unknown.png

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1 hour ago, LameoveR said:

it's already new meta. stop this "buff here, buff there" crap.

 

How is it a buff when I already said they don't stack it just allows more freedom of placement. I am not asking for more damage or more health or more of anything just more placements.

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Dont forget the default helmet cloths need reduction/removal

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I personally would be satisfied with a faster deployment since I can see this being abused for buffs everywhere, which in itself isn't bad mind ya - I agree with the idea of having more placements - but I can already see people not being able to move due to reservoirs all over the map increasing load times for any player on low settings.

Other than that I have no issues.

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, LameoveR said:

yeah, let place those reservoirs all over the Hydron.

once again how is it a problem they don't stack.

and you cant put them all over 3 more wont do much other then aid in team mates being able to access the reservoirs easier then trying to keep track of them. from afar there impossible to see, there is a map way marker but the way marker isn't that easy to see either. even wisp herself has a hard time being able to teleport to the reservoirs with the maps alignments with some parts being vary high and vary low. I see no problem with just 3 more. 

Edited by .Fire_Fly.

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Ivara Quiver has the duration of the abilitys inside the swap menu thing, why not do the same with the resevoirs buff durations

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Removing corrosive procs from Sol Gate would be nice. The sun cannot corrode, I have no idea why it was added. I like to believe they did it so she can deal with high armor enemies, and to dab on Ember more than usual.

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If there's a possibility to make teleporting to Wisps motes not cancel reload animations that'd be a huge QoL improvement for her.

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