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(The Jovian Concord: Update 25) Wisp Feedback


[DE]Danielle
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better placement of reservoirs maybe ?

i tend to place them in the most travelled areas rather than at objective points.

6 is enough to put a full set in one place and another somewhere else or even 6 separate ones for teleporting.

 

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7 hours ago, Aliothale said:

Calls people plebs, doesn't realize he's playing Wisp wrong. You can place her motes in the air above nullifier range. You need to check your attitude in a feedback thread my dude.

Yeah, that's a good idea. The ting is that I like having my buffs accessible to my teammates tho. 😉 Oh if you wanted to flirt with me, PM woulda been fine sir. No need to be romantic and post it publicly; i'm not really into that. I'm sure the devs don't care for it either, considering it's not wisp feedback. 😛

Edited by Maka.Bones
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13 hours ago, Xepthrichros said:

I merely began by pointing out what you said didn't represent everyone, and that you using the term "people" as if you are speaking for everyone is erroneous. And someone (i.e. you) began going into this whole "jerk on the internet" name calling, condescendingly preaching to me on how I can farm more karma on the forums. I continue to say your view, regardless of how your echo chamber vision insist is the majority, is not the majority. And the majority who is happy usually does NOT bother going online to say they are. They just play the game. A concept foreign to you, it seems. And for those who did bother to say Wisp is good here, I am not going to go quoting everyone who said something that contradicts your position to give you more targets to whack. Find them yourself. Oh wait, don't find them. They don't need you in their lives. Just keep preaching to your nerf happy choir. Actually, there are folks that also think the ability is too weak, want it buffed, and also some that are unhappy the recent patch has removed Wisp Sol Gate ability to damage nullifier bubbles, and want this aspect of the ability restored. But I suppose it's good I distracted you in this argument to prevent you from fighting with others. And as the argument progressed, you begin shifting your position and pretending you didn't call for nerfs. But oh really? What was that in some posts back? Some dude says DE should stop implementing press 4 for damage abilities? You say you are inclined to agree? What's that? Not a nerf? You just calling nerfs a fix now? Or "better design" and all that other nice window dressing you put up? Dismissing again anyone with different ideas on what they want their abilities to be? Yeah. Inclusive views. Very inclusive. You even found a way to imply Titania requires nerfs with her one trick razorwing. An already unpopular frame. Her skill 1, 2, 3 should be getting buffs so they synergize with her 4 better. Not the other way around. And my so-called "line by line"s are nothing compared to you. If you cannot even see the difference, then you have issues, kettle.  Also, for someone claiming to be better than me, you end off with more name-calling, Enjoy your nonexistent moral high ground. 

Oh wow. Just... wow. So, let's respond to this steaming hot take in something other than a single, breathless paragraph:

  • Where did I claim to be speaking for "everyone"? I merely pointed out that a majority of people had mixed feelings about Wisp, as once again evidenced by this very thread. You do not get to accuse me of being a "jerk on the internet" when you explicitly admit to picking this fight with me after I had made a general feedback post targeting no-one in particular, and so immediately with a hostile attitude.
  • Bleating out the debunked notion that there is this silent majority of players who agree with you on Wisp, but somehow all have collectively decided not to bother saying as much because "they just play the game", on Wisp's own feedback thread, to someone who ostensibly plays the game more than you, is not going to make you sound any less wrong, it just makes you look stupid.
  • Where was I fighting anyone else on this thread? I find it literally incredible that you'd attempt to dress up your vitriolic posts against me as some sort of brave sacrifice so that I wouldn't do to someone else what you're doing to me.
  • Where :clap:did:clap:I:clap:call:clap:for:clap:nerfs:clap:? Literally where? The fact that you would use your own confusion between design criticism and requests for nerfs as an actual argument is impressive, though perhaps not for the reasons you intended. Meanwhile, you have yet to list a single nerf I requested: tell me, what did I suggest to nerf on Wisp's 4? Where did I even talk about her 4 previously affecting nullifier bubbles?
  • Your line-by-lines aren't "so-called", they actually exist, as literally anyone reading this thread can see. Denying such simply makes you look pathologically dishonest, and incompetent at lying convincingly. Moreover, yours are nothing compared to me... by which standard? I've done them, you've done them; trying to make yours sound special isn't really going to convince anyone here that you're somehow exempt from the double-edged accusations you clumsily laid upon me.
  • I ended my last post by pointing out that your contribution to this thread has been purely negative, which is evidently true: you have not until this point given any actual feedback on Wisp, you have merely chosen to white knight aggressively by trying to silence others giving their criticism of the frame. Several of your posts were so toxic that they and associated replies had to be removed by moderation, yet from this you have learned nothing. Meanwhile, you literally have been calling me names with the absolutely pathetic epithet of "nerf-caller". Your posts are transparently corrupt in their intentions, and your attempts to blame me for your own horrendous behavior have themselves failed through sheer ineptitude. Literally which part of your entire tirade here did you expect to convince anyone? It seems like you're barely even able to convince yourself.
Quote

Wisp Sol Gate should get back its ability to affect nullifier bubbles. Furthermore, it would be nice if it can interact with her skill 1 and 3 further, so as to make my loss of mobility worthwhile.

While in Sol Gate "mode" with the solar beam shooting out:
1) use reservoirs to refract it. If the sol gate beam is aimed on your reservoirs, the beam will refract and bounce off each other, like the Amprex beam but only between the reservoirs. Reservoirs have to be near each other for this beam bending to occur between them. The result of the beam bending around a small space results in superheating of the air in that immediate vicinity of that area, dealing heat damage to enemies.
2) use Breach Surge to shoot energy out of the solar beam in a small radius (5 to 10m?) in a similar way Glaxion Vandal has some AOE around the beam

Also, the sun's glare really ought to have some stun/blinding effect.

In other words, you don't even want to aim to be able to kill people with Sol Gate, nor do you want your opponents to be able to fight back while it is in effect. Furthermore, you also want Wisp's ability to be the only pure ability in the entire game to nullify nullifier bubbles, which are intended to counter abilities. Interesting.

Edited by Teridax68
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I think the limit of 6 gives the Wisp some necessary drawbacks. She is an awesome frame (my current fav). She can't be good at everything, so having a weakness on a couple mission types isn't a big deal.

I think I would be happy if the reservoir gave every buff and you had a limit of three though. Less placement time would be good.

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6 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

~snip~

I initially paragraphed it, but on afterthought, deleted the spaces because you ain't worth that amount of space, nor do I want to make even more posts that are an endless scrolling chore like you love to do.. Btw "jerk on the internet" was the term YOU started using on me, and you threw the first insult, in a post that has been deleted presumably by a moderator. Get your order of events on who threw out the first name calling here straight. I say your opinion is a vocal minority, which is not an insult but perhaps that's all it took to upset you.I merely disrupted your narrative that you are not the majority of the entire playerbase (surely you understand the number of players > number of forum participants, if not, you are beyond this discussion) and do everything in your power to annoy and put me down. Yeah  You played the game more therefore you know more. Literally the same justification I see salty veterans throw about in region chat when they argue with people just to get highground. So in-game hours add to your ego.  You know how to farm karma (you tried to lecture me on the "how to"s in a now deleted post) so your forum popularity means nothing. Line-by-lines, once or twice, yes. I did. Meanwhile, you just take any line by line by others and exponentially lengthen it. You do so all the time and are already lengthening my one long paragraph by responding with six  "bullet essays" of crap. Where did you call for nerfs? Were my clues in that paragraph not enough? Feigning ignorance again to get upper hand? You actually assuming I didn't scroll back and read what others and you have said? 

 

6 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

In other words, you don't even want to aim to be able to kill people with Sol Gate, nor do you want your opponents to be able to fight back while it is in effect. Furthermore, you also want Wisp's ability to be the only pure ability in the entire game to nullify nullifier bubbles, which are intended to counter abilities. Interesting.

 

I literally said aim the beam at the reservoir. That post has no edits so I didn't change anything after and you can't accuse me of lying again. 

With refraction, you now can consider where you want to place your reservoirs and  use it as a means to amplify damage in a small area,, like perhaps the area of a cryopod or how Tesla Link  has beams connecting to each other. in a limited range. This is still not map-wide domination that other established frames are capable of.

Sol Gate feels like it can be an exalted beam weapon to me. anyway.

 

And the glare from the beam isn't going to blind the whole map, just blind people near the beam. If enemies can get blinded by the shine of Gara's armor, the glory of the sun's concentrated beam ought to blind them if they are standing 5 m beside it and the player is just aiming slightly off to the side of them. It's not even going to significantly break (by break, I mean making her OP) the way she works at the moment if her beam does blind anything (besides the player, if they use the wrong energy color)

Edited by Xepthrichros
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I feel like there should be a 4th option on the flower wheel to place all 3 flowers down at once. Most of the game modes are really fast paced and by the time you finish putting down the flowers people are half way across the map and thus they serve no purpose at times. This will make her flow a bit better without being over the top, it will allow her to keep up with everyone and help out with buffs.

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You can always just make a choice about which buffs to provide. I pick haste or vitality, depending on the mission. All three work for endless. By giving us the option to place all three at once, they kind of negate the need for individual options. How many people would rather just place all three?

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Use Wil-O-Wisp's hold teleport to catch up and surpass allies, while plopping down your buff flower on the move directly in your team's travel path (cuz you can do that, Wisp doesn't need to stay still to cast her 1.)

That's how I buff my team on more mobile gamemodes anyway.

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I don’t disagree that it would be a useful feature. I just don’t see it as something DE would add. You might as well just increase the cost of the Reservoir ability and say it just places all three at once. 

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This is my 'biggest' issue with wisp, sol gate being weak is way down the line, purely because if you want all 3 buffs it takes 6 presses, well 3 short and 3 long presses which takes a fair bit of time considering the type of game this is. 

I could understand the logic in having the 3 drops if we could stack 3 of the same buff (sure this is how it was shown in devstream) but as it stands now we can only stack 1 of each so no matter what we put down the buffs we gain are ALWAYS the same, so there is literally no reason to have 3 different buffs.

Mind you I'm fully expecting them to 'fix' the issue with an augment like usual instead of actually 'fixing' the issue with the frame and giving players a more useful augment.  Mind you I'm expecting the augments to nerf something in the process, if we get one that allows us to put all 3 down at once I expect it will get a nerf in duration or strength, if we get the ability to stack 3 of the same it will likely get a duration nerf or something similar.

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17 minutes ago, krc473 said:

I don’t disagree that it would be a useful feature. I just don’t see it as something DE would add. You might as well just increase the cost of the Reservoir ability and say it just places all three at once. 

something i would love to have. reservoirs does not match the mobility of wisp. the ability wheel should have been removed when they decided not to go with the original interaction with her 1 and 3 which was to pulse an AOE at each mote.

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Hi All, quick one for you.

My Analysis On Wisp:
So after being leveled to 40 (and 5 Froma), I wanted to share my Feedback and Analysis on Wisp's kit and powers.

Passive {Phased}: This needs a few QOL Changes to make it more suitable for her kit.
⦁    Silenced weapons will NOT remove her invisibility. (Wisp's Weapon Shares This)
⦁    Invisibility does not work with Melee weapon strikes. (No Reason to keep this, as Wisp does not keep her unique stance when using them)
⦁    Hard Landings WILL NOT dissipate the cloak


Reservoirs: Needs the most attention for QOL Fixes and Changes
⦁    Holding down the {Key} will now summon ALL Motes at once
⦁    Tapping the {Key} will "highlight" what Mote you wish to "Not Cast" (Exp: If Haste is highlighted, it won't be summoned, but Vitality & Shock will)
⦁    If all (or 2) reservoir pods are active, holding down once again, will cause the Motes to explode. (Shock: Magnetic/Haste: Viral/Vitality: Blast)


2.Wil-O-Wisp: Only 2 QOL Needed
⦁    Teleport Invulnerability time is effected by Duration
⦁    When the Decoy is out: Casting Cost for Wisp's powers is halved


3.Breach Surge: 1 QOL Needed
⦁    Motes now another synergy: If Vitally is active: Each spark heals you for a %/If Haste is active: Each spark grants a speed buff/If Shock is active: Each spark gives you % engrey.

4.Sol Gate: 1 QOL Needed
⦁     Energy Consumption is lowered by 30%


Simple and quick QOL changes.


Psi
 

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First of all, I love this frame. She's unique and very interesting in term of synergy, so gameplaywise I think she's really good. But I have something that bother me about her "artistic design", especially about her movement animation.

I'm totally aware on how complexe and time heavy can be to redo animations for everything for one single warframe, having the jog animation custom is already a damn thing compared to the rest of the frames and open possibilities to have every frame having their own special movement thing (example: mirage dodge more looking as the acrobatic moves from the mirage prime trailer) but Wisp animations have so much lacks.

Actually as she have no feet, a lot of the game animation are wrong right now on her. For the melee animation I totally understand that not that much time was invested in it because melee 3.0 will bring many changes on melee and probably a lot on animations so would be a waste of time to do unique wisp animation for melee at this point. But for the Sneaking (crouch), the standing firing, the aiming-moving, are using the regular vanilla animation that use feets on the ground.

It's nothing harmless for the gameplay but it's some kind of her uniqueness, that "I have no feet so I'm hovering" part that makes her what she is that, in my opinion, have too much lacks. I'm also aware that she came just before that big period of the year with E3 and Tennocon so it's totally okay if her actual animation stat is a "we did like that for now to not delay her too long and not delay other things we're working on", and I hope we'll have the polishing of her overall animations during the year. But if we don't, I'll live with it anyway and still enjoy her a lot cause she's extremly enjoyable.

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20 hours ago, .Fire_Fly. said:

Sure some ignore it because they want to but most don’t choose to 

You don't know that about the other players though, unless you've been asking them.

When we have decisions to make in the game, we choose one option over the other because it's more favourable. It gives us more efficacy, or it makes the mission's success more likely. If someone isn't leaving their spot to grab your Reservoir buff, either they are too lazy to go get it, or their position is too important to step away from. In either case, that buff is a low priority, and in most cases it isn't going to have much of an impact on the success or failure of the mission.

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2 hours ago, Xepthrichros said:

I initially paragraphed it, but on afterthought, deleted the spaces because you ain't worth that amount of space, nor do I want to make even more posts that are an endless scrolling chore like you love to do..

This is a silly excuse, particularly as failing to paragraph your replies just makes your posts even more of a chore by turning them into walls of text. Are you incapable of admitting to such a tiny mistake as forgetting to space out your sentences?

2 hours ago, Xepthrichros said:

Btw "jerk on the internet" was the term YOU started using on me, and you threw the first insult, in a post that has been deleted presumably by a moderator. Get your order of events on who threw out the first name calling here straight.

I did say you were acting like a jerk... in response to your own hostile attitude on this thread, and your own posts which, as I've said already, were deleted by moderation, along with my responses. This includes your very first post, by the way, so as you put it, "get your order of events on who threw out the first name calling here straight".

2 hours ago, Xepthrichros said:

I say your opinion is a vocal minority, which is not an insult but perhaps that's all it took to upset you.I merely disrupted your narrative that you are not the majority of the entire playerbase (surely you understand the number of players > number of forum participants, if not, you are beyond this discussion) and do everything in your power to annoy and put me down.

You literally did invent a whole new insult to throw my way, though, and have been launching personal attacks at me throughout, as mentioned above already, so please, don't pretend you're innocent in this exchange. I did not at any point claim that I was the majority of the playerbase, and in fact I made that specific criticism at you when I pointed out that you were using that exact same argument. Parroting my words back at me in absence of context or justification doesn't really make you come across as any less unconvincing. Also, "everything in my power"? What power am I exerting, exactly? The only power I have is the power to respond to you, meanwhile you have openly admitted to using your own posts to harass me on this thread, and so with the hypocritical stated goal of distracting me from conversation with anyone else. You are yet again guilty of your own accusations here.

2 hours ago, Xepthrichros said:

Yeah  You played the game more therefore you know more. Literally the same justification I see salty veterans throw about in region chat when they argue with people just to get highground. So in-game hours add to your ego.

Not really, I simply pointed out that your whole argument that I, a forum poster, didn't spend adequate time playing the game, was bunk, as I not only have more posts than you, but also more playtime than you. This does not make my input inherently more valuable than yours, it just means you're talking out of your butt, as you've done this entire conversation.

2 hours ago, Xepthrichros said:

 You know how to farm karma (you tried to lecture me on the "how to"s in a now deleted post) so your forum popularity means nothing.

I literally only tried to tell you then that you'd draw less ridicule if you didn't act like "a jerk on the internet", whose negative effects you are demonstrating at length. If you consider a minimum of human decency, respect for others, and argumentative substance to be "karma farming", then absolutely, I'd be a karma farmer and proud of it. As it stands, though, your whole narrative that I'm just here to farm karma comes from... where, exactly? The fact that you keep trying to use my beating you by whichever arbitrary metric as a weapon against me here suggests envy may be playing a part in your dislike of me, and what's even sadder is that you appear to envy me on scores I do not care about in the slightest.

2 hours ago, Xepthrichros said:

 Line-by-lines, once or twice, yes. I did.

And so unprompted, including right after bashing on line-by-lines. It is beyond pathetic that you would continue to try to defend yourself when you've clearly scored an own goal.

2 hours ago, Xepthrichros said:

Meanwhile, you just take any line by line by others and exponentially lengthen it. You do so all the time and are already lengthening my one long paragraph by responding with six  "bullet essays" of crap.

... which you yourself have done on line-by-lines. If you do not want a lengthier response, don't make such silly posts.

2 hours ago, Xepthrichros said:

 Where did you call for nerfs? Were my clues in that paragraph not enough? Feigning ignorance again to get upper hand? You actually assuming I didn't scroll back and read what others and you have said? 

I'm sorry, what "clues"? I have asked you time and again to point exactly where I requested nerfs. Quote me on where I requested nerfs to Wisp (I in fact advocated buffs, which I can quote myself on as needed). Once again, it is absolutely hilarious how you attempt to grandstand and insult me in lieu of any kind of substantiation of your claims when requested, as if it were convincing to anyone. You are lying here, and it shows.

2 hours ago, Xepthrichros said:

I literally said aim the beam at the reservoir. That post has no edits so I didn't change anything after and you can't accuse me of lying again. 

With refraction, you now can consider where you want to place your reservoirs and  use it as a means to amplify damage in a small area,, like perhaps the area of a cryopod or how Tesla Link  has beams connecting to each other. in a limited range. This is still not map-wide domination that other established frames are capable of.

Sol Gate feels like it can be an exalted beam weapon to me. anyway.

I was in fact referring to the gratuitious area of effect damage you were suggesting to add on top of the refraction effect. What you are asking for is to be able to kill everything in an even wider radius the moment your beam catches any one of your reservoirs, in addition to damaging enemies, so basically just kill everyone regardless of which direction you point your laser at. This effect is redundant in the face of Breach Surge, whose propagation effect already lets you kill more enemies than just the ones caught in your beam, but seeing as that requires you to focus targets affected by the ability in the first place, what little difficulty there is doing so no doubt pushed you to demand an even easier alternative. Moreover, how is the ability an exalted weapon? You're not drawing a weapon, you're opening a portal to the Sun. It is as much of an exalted weapon as Danse Macabre.

2 hours ago, Xepthrichros said:

And the glare from the beam isn't going to blind the whole map, just blind people near the beam.

I.e. the people you are fighting. Which is precisely why I pointed out you are asking for a buff to Sol Gate that prevents enemies from fighting back, itself a redundant effect in the face of Breach Surge's own disable.

2 hours ago, Xepthrichros said:

If enemies can get blinded by the shine of Gara's armor, the glory of the sun's concentrated beam ought to blind them if they are standing 5 m beside it and the player is just aiming slightly off to the side of them. It's not even going to significantly break (by break, I mean making her OP) the way she works at the moment if her beam does blind anything (besides the player, if they use the wrong energy color)

Gara's passive affects individual targets at random, meaning it acts more as an opener to melee finishers than as a reliable enemy disable. What you are asking for is for Sol Gate to generate a continuous Radial Blind while also laying down continuous damage. It does not matter whether or not it will make Wisp OP, the fundamental problem with what you're requesting is that your proposed ability would kill all interaction between Wisp and her opponents by design. That's not going to make her more healthy or fun to play, it's just a juvenile request to eliminate all difficulty, itself driven by a player drive to optimize everything, a drive that makes me glad players aren't given full control of the game's balancing and frame design. As mentioned above, I am all for improving Wisp, including buffing her 4, but the way you are suggesting to go about it demonstrates exactly why some player opinions are just not worth listening to, as your need for "efficiency" is making you genuinely advocate to optimize the fun out of the game without a shred of self-awareness.

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44 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

An even longer essay of smack talk and vitriol just to appear holier-than-thou and innocent at the same time

Hilarious. You can't help yourself can't you? 🤣 But lets just focus on how you respond to an actual suggestion that contradicts your views then, shall we? I won't even bother going too much into it cos it shows with just a few statements.

44 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

I was in fact referring to the gratuitious area of effect damage 

So, the area about the size of a crypod and the vicinity around it is considered a LOT to you?  Noted. You hate AOE. Even a small one. This isn't even going to reach enemy spawn locations like a Resonating Quake can, and yet you are displeased.

44 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

so basically just kill everyone regardless of which direction you point your laser at

Misrepresentation of my idea. A small area the size of a cryopod or so is not "everyone regardless of direction". . And as already said, I say to point the laser at the reservoirs and they need to be close together for the linking to occur. If you bothered to picture it properly in your head and stop being angry for a moment, this is a small area, not a large area. 

44 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

That's not going to make her more healthy or fun to play, it's just a juvenile request to eliminate all difficulty, itself driven by a player drive to optimize everything, a drive that makes me glad players aren't given full control of the game's balancing and frame design. As mentioned above, I am all for improving Wisp, including buffing her 4, but the way you are suggesting to go about it demonstrates exactly why some player opinions are just not worth listening to, as your need for "efficiency" is making you genuinely advocate to optimize the fun out of the game without a shred of self-awareness.


And you proved that you are exactly as I accused.  "Juvenile" ding, name calling, "Eliminate all difficulty" Ding, Misrepresenting my point. "Not worth listening to". Ding. Intolerant. 👏

There you are. A person who is against efficiency, a nerf lover, who smack talks anyone who has a differing view and deems them unworthy of being listened to, intolerant and not inclusive, while pretending to be innocent, and if you want to know what is that post in question I refer to where you want Wisp and warframes in general to be nerfed, do you own homework and memory search, or just search this topic for all the times "Titania" comes up.

Edited by Xepthrichros
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Considering how mobile wisp is this reservoir thing makes 0 sense. Thy do not do anything special, in that case wisp herself should be the reservoir so when people come close to her they get the buff like all other frames.

We have frames that are able to skip the whole game by pressing one button and here we are struggling to place flowers 1 by 1 that don’t do anything, come on guys we can do better lol

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On 2019-06-08 at 11:31 AM, .Fire_Fly. said:

but my main problem is in vary large Interception missions there is always one team mate to far from the reservoirs at all times and never can seem to get the buff properly and thus just ignores the buffs all together, so my request goes to team mates not for myself but for the team to have easier access to my buffs. 

That's honestly on them then. If they refuse to be situationally aware and grab the buffs in between groups then they have no one to blame but themselves. Mobility is king in this game and that includes being mobile enough to interact with your team and not just sit in one spot like a turret

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11 hours ago, Xepthrichros said:

Hilarious. You can't help yourself can't you? 🤣 But lets just focus on how you respond to an actual suggestion that contradicts your views then, shall we? I won't even bother going too much into it cos it shows with just a few statements.

... which is why you took the time to make this particular comment in response to a quote you fabricated, as opposed to something I actually said. As you yourself put so well: you can't help yourself, can you? :wink:

Quote

So, the area about the size of a crypod and the vicinity around it is considered a LOT to you?  Noted. You hate AOE. Even a small one. This isn't even going to reach enemy spawn locations like a Resonating Quake can, and yet you are displeased.

I don't hate AoE, I just find it an utterly unnecessary addition to a giant death beam that already doesn't need much aim to do its job. Moreover, your weaselling on the details here undermines your point: if the AoE is so small as to be insignificant, why have it in the first place?

Quote

Misrepresentation of my idea. A small area the size of a cryopod or so is not "everyone regardless of direction". . And as already said, I say to point the laser at the reservoirs and they need to be close together for the linking to occur. If you bothered to picture it properly in your head and stop being angry for a moment, this is a small area, not a large area. 

But that's the thing: you didn't simply ask for "a small area the size of a cryopod", you're asking for up to six separate instances of that, plus the Sol Gate beam itself getting multiplied just by colliding with a reservoir. No matter what spin you try to put, the fact remains that you are asking for Sol Gate to be able to affect more enemies in more directions beyond the one the player is aiming, on an effect that is already ridiculously easy to aim. Trying to placate me by telling me that these effects are actually unimpactful just makes the entire suggestion even sillier and all the more unnecessary. Why are you even asking to give Sol Gate more AoE? The fact that you've failed to justify yourself even a little bit on this just makes it look all the more like you just want to have the game play itself, with no real input demanded on the player's part.

Quote

And you proved that you are exactly as I accused.  "Juvenile" ding, name calling, "Eliminate all difficulty" Ding, Misrepresenting my point. "Not worth listening to". Ding. Intolerant. 👏

"Nerf lover" ding, name calling. "Smack talks anyone who has a differing view and deems them unworthy of being listened to" Ding, misrepresenting my point. "Not inclusive, while pretending to be innocent". Ding. Intolerant. 👏

But honestly, do you even read what you post? Who are you trying to fool here, when you have proven time and again that the vitriol you are spewing here describes your own actions better than anyone here? You don't get to whine about "name calling" when you are the main perpetrator, nor do you get to talk about misrepresenting my point when you have outright lied in an attempt to make a straw man out of me, nor do you get to accuse me of intolerance when you yourself chose to start this argument purely because you could not tolerate my differing opinion, which I hadn't even directed towards you.

Your buff requests for Wisp explicitly aim to turn her directional damage beam into a radial nuke, and thereby eliminate the one player input it relies upon in favor of just pure power without gameplay: you are effectively demanding to to win without investing any effort, a demand with the exact same mentality as a child demanding a trophy for a competition they did not participate in, so your request is quite literally juvenile in nature. As shown already, your demands not only involve eliminating the need to aim in order to kill enemies, but also eliminating the ability for those enemies to fight back, so if this isn't eliminating all difficulty tied to using the ability, what difficulty is left? Ultimately, all of your requests visibly do not care about genuinely improving the champion's gameplay, so much as making her more powerful and bending her towards you intended playstyle of pressing a single button to win, without any further effort required, so even when you do talk about Wisp, you are still evidently not worth listening to.

An aspect of argumentation you have apparently failed to notice is that when you imitate someone else, you need to either make sure the context is appropriate, or that your mirroring of their arguments is justified: as it stands, you have utterly failed in both respects, and have only parroted the vaguest trappings of my criticisms or arguments without any regards for whether or not doing so was appropriate or substantiated, which has only served to make you look more ridiculous. I can justify my arguments because I know what I'm saying; you visibly can't, because you don't.

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There you are. A person who is against efficiency, a nerf lover, who smack talks anyone who has a differing view and deems them unworthy of being listened to, intolerant and not inclusive, while pretending to be innocent, and if you want to know what is that post in question I refer to where you want Wisp and warframes in general to be nerfed, do you own homework and memory search, or just search this topic for all the times "Titania" comes up.

So I actually did do the work, and this is literally the one post I have made on this thread where Titania comes up:

On 2019-06-06 at 2:30 PM, Teridax68 said:

I'm inclined to agree: I think there's potential to give certain frames mode-switching damage abilities if there's genuine interaction with the rest of the kit (e.g. Exalted Blade and Radial Blind), or if there's a strong enough gate to prevent the ability from being used all the time (e.g. Baruuk's Restraint for Serene Storm), but all too often the ability boils down to "forget everything else, you're doing this thing now". When the ability does not interact with the rest of the kit, the frame becomes a fairly shallow one-ability-wonder when using it (e.g. Revenant or Titania), and when the ability has no proper gate (and Energy isn't a proper gate due to how easily it can be generated at higher levels), there's practically no reason to use anything else but the ability all of the time. Sol Gate can be used on-demand at all times and the only synergy it has with Wisp's kit is forced, so it is not surprising that it would run into those exact same issues. In the future, if DE wants to add more weapon-like abilities, they should make sure those abilities let the rest of the frame's kit breathe and still see proper use.

So tell me: where did I suggest any nerf to Titania? Where did I do this for Wisp? For all your talk about doing your own homework, you still conspicuously refuse to do so, even after I have done your own job of honoring your burden of proof. At no point did I suggest any nerf to anyone on this thread, any my opposition to "efficiency" has been defined at length as an opposition to abilities that outright remove gameplay and worsen it just to provide more power, a set of abilities you are inexplicably set on defending (and, more laughable still, that you consider a legitimate hill to die on). You are very obviously lying, and it shows that you are incapable of justifying yourself, just as you have been incapable of adding any substance to all the other lies and slander you have dropped on this thread.

Just to show you how it's done, by the way, and to stay at least somewhat on topic, here's my own take on how Wisp could be changed, off the top of my head:

  • Effects in red are affected by Power Strength, effects in green are affected by Power Duration, effects in yellow are affected by Power Range, and effects in blue are affected by Power Efficiency.
  • Passive - Phased: Standardize the ability by removing the special-cased decloak on hard landing, and by keeping Wisp cloaked while firing silenced weapons.
  • 1 - Aperture: On tap, Wisp fires an orb in the target direction that forms a portal upon contact with terrain, which lasts indefinitely and is invisible to enemies. Firing a second orb connects the two portals, allowing Wisp, her allies, and their effects to travel through as if there were no distance in-between. Warframes that touch a portal, even an inactive one, surge with dimensional energy for 19 / 22 / 26 / 30 seconds, gaining 300 bonus maximum health, 30 bonus health regeneration per second, 20% increased movement and melee attack speed, 30% increased fire rate, and a charge that shocks up to 5 enemies within 15 meters with chain lightning every 3 seconds, dealing 10 Electric damage with 100% status chance and a 3 second stun duration. Allied projectiles and beams have their size and damage increased by 20 / 30 / 40 / 50% after passing through a portal, stacking additively. Can have up to three separate sets of portals this way (6 portals total), and holding switches to a new set of portals to fire, cycling automatically after laying down a pair of portals. Each portal costs 25 Energy to deploy, and throwing a portal orb is a one-handed action that does not interrupt any of Wisp's actions or movement.
  • 2 - Will-O-Wisp: Base movement speed on clone increased, based on a multiplier of Wisp's own current movement speed and momentum. Teleporting to the clone conserves and redirects Wisp's momentum forward.
  • 3 - Breach: Wisp and her clone briefly lift the barrier to the Void within them, instantly pulling in all enemies within 11 / 13 / 16 / 18 meters of them and making them disappear. Upon recast, Wisp releases the trapped enemies, causing them to reappear at her location and become  for 7 / 9 / 12 / 16 seconds. While stunned, enemies are open to melee finishers and are also entangled to another nearby enemy, causing all status effects and 25 / 50 / 75 / 100% of damage applied to one target to also be applied to the other. Recasting Breach while Will-O-Wisp's clone is out releases the trapped enemies at the clone's location instead. Costs 50 Energy, and casting Breach does not interrupt any of Wisp's actions or movement.
  • 4 - Sol Gate: Wisp opens a portal to the Sun which remains at the cast location, firing a continuous beam of infinite range and enemy punch-through that deals 3000 / 3300 / 3750 / 4500 continuous damage, split equally between Heat and Radiation, with a 100% status chance. While affected by the beam, enemies are stripped of their armor, continually staggered away from the source, blinded, and rendered increasingly vulnerable to its damage. Costs 25 Energy to cast, and drains 12 Energy per second while in use. Wisp can pick up the portal and hold it while it is out, slowing her movement and preventing her from parkouring, while also doubling the drain.

Notes on this:

  • All of the Reservoir buffs are preserved. I don't think they're strictly necessary for the above version of the ability to function, but the buffs aren't game-breaking, and if keeping them makes more people happy, why not.
  • Same with the Breach disable/spread effect and the Sol Gate pickup mechanic. Effectively, all of these changes would preserve the original abilities' gameplay, or at least still enable it, while adding new elements, making them direct buffs.
  • Many commonly suggested QoL buffs, e.g. buffs to her invisibility and clone speed, are included.
  • Changing Reservoirs to portals, and making Sol Gate a static deployable rather than a weapon would make Wisp far more mobile overall, while also playing more with her portal theme. In fact, with perfect play you could remain airborne with her essentially indefinitely, using a combination of portals and clone teleports to avoid touching the ground.
  • Wisp would have several more "oh sh*t" buttons if she gets caught in a bad situation: because enemies can't use her portals, she could use them to make a clean escape, and Breach would be more effective than the current Breach Surge at preventing nearby enemies from killing her. Thus, she'd have more survivability, especially at higher levels.
  • The kit would have many more natural synergies: portals to travel through would allow Wisp to send her clone to travel much farther, plus both would let her use Breach to place enemies exactly where she wants them, such as her Sol Gate beam, which she'd also be able to pass through her portals for bonus coverage and damage.
  • Overall, the above playstyle would be more likely to fit her theme (she'd have actual portals as a portal frame, and would be encouraged to think with portals), as well as the more mobile and indirect gameplay suggested by her innate and 2 (she'd be encouraged to be constantly on the move, and use her mobility to her advantage to trap and misdirect enemies).

Hopefully, this should show where we differ: my criticism of your proposals is that they ultimately don't improve upon Wisp's gameplay in any manner, they just intend to add power and nothing else (and the way in which they add power would make her gameplay shallower and less interactive). Meanwhile, I want Wisp to become genuinely more functional and truer to her theme, while also giving her more options, and more opportunities to express mastery and skill. Thus far, you have deliberately misrepresented my position by accusing my criticism of press-4-to-win abilities to be a request for nerfs, but the reality of the matter is that I don't really care about nerfing or buffing a frame's numbers in most circumstances: in Wisp's case, I have no intention of nerfing her 4, I just think it needs better interaction with the rest of her kit, interaction that can be fostered through buffs, such as the above. These buffs can be to the abilities around the 4, or to the 4 itself, provided they enable more interesting synergy than forced stat bonuses. Ultimately, we may never be able to find common ground, but that may have to do because you appear to truly, genuinely want to change the game's design in such a way that it lets you win without any effort whatsoever, whereas I want to make frames more interactive and fun to play above all else.

Edited by Teridax68
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8 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

So tell me: where did I suggest any nerf to Titania? Where did I do this for Wisp? For all your talk about doing your own homework, you still conspicuously refuse to do so, even after I have done your own job of honoring your burden of proof. At no point did I suggest any nerf to anyone on this thread, any my opposition to "efficiency" has been defined at length as an opposition to abilities that outright remove gameplay and worsen it just to provide more power, a set of abilities you are inexplicably set on defending (and, more laughable still, that you consider a legitimate hill to die on). You are very obviously lying, and it shows that you are incapable of justifying yourself, just as you have been incapable of adding any substance to all the other lies and slander you have dropped on this thre

So you finally found it. I was beginning to be concerned your account was hacked and I was arguing with two people.  So, you said

"I'm inclined to agree: I think there's potential to give certain frames mode-switching damage abilities if there's genuine interaction with the rest of the kit (e.g. Exalted Blade and Radial Blind), or if there's a strong enough gate to prevent the ability from being used all the time (e.g. Baruuk's Restraint for Serene Storm), but all too often the ability boils down to "forget everything else, you're doing this thing now". When the ability does not interact with the rest of the kit, the frame becomes a fairly shallow one-ability-wonder when using it (e.g. Revenant or Titania), and when the ability has no proper gate (and Energy isn't a proper gate due to how easily it can be generated at higher levels), there's practically no reason to use anything else but the ability all of the time. Sol Gate can be used on-demand at all times and the only synergy it has with Wisp's kit is forced, so it is not surprising that it would run into those exact same issues. In the future, if DE wants to add more weapon-like abilities, they should make sure those abilities let the rest of the frame's kit breathe and still see proper use."

Ok then. I will assume, since you vehemently claim you are not a person who wants nerfs, that you indeed are NOT such a person and just wants to improve the game  (though a brief scroll into your history of posts all over the forums might suggest otherwise, but that will go into even further off topic). I'll just focus on what you said, since this is what got me in the first place. Associating Titania and Revenant in this discussion about energy costs and ability gating like Baruuk, gives me red flags. Revenant's energy drain already annoys some folks, and it's not like his 4th goes through walls, but that is not enough? How much drain do you want? Or do you prefer a Baruuk gate everywhere? Titania's 4th is also not that great to begin with due to people disliking archwing mechanics generally, and it doesn't even require anything further to discourage usage. She actually needs buffs to make 1,2,3 more useful like some ideas which I've seen in this thread - wherein they mention Wisp's reservoir mechanic could benefit Titania if something similar was translated over. Why bring up things that not so-called game-breaking and imply more could be done to make them be used less? Anyway, when I see such a mentality, I began to wonder what you have in mind for an ideal Wisp. 

Surprisingly, your suggestions for Wisp actually make her OP. Fine with me, I take whatever I get. I already use her as she currently is and you apparently have something to make her stronger. 

My thoughts on your suggestions

Skill 1. I'd definitely use that. Question: if I am Wisp's ally, can I trigger a teleport between apertures myself or do I need to wait for my ally Wisp to allow me? What's the difference between active and inactive portal? Active meaning permission given by a Wisp? I guess I can go on to POE. drop one portal at the gate. Take my sniper scope out to see how far it goes, and drop a second portal there. Very good and will address the Itzal thing too  If an ally uses my portal, does it cost my energy or his? Also, Nova be like "what about me?"

Skill 2: Base movement speed of clone definitely needs an increase. I have had instances where I managed to bullet jump and race my clone to the finish line at almost the same speed. Unless this is intended by DE, and one of the ways DE thought we can use it, is to run down the same corridor with a clone beside us to sorta confound enemies as they see double. 

Skill 3: Will your trapped enemies delay progress of a defense mission? How long can they be stuck in my mirror dimension? (I can cosframe as Dr Strange even more now) If they are stuck in there with nobody allowed to shoot them, and if it is a player who doesn't know how the ability works, will we get another Limbo Rift issue? Once those things are resolved. Ok, if mod for max ability range and efficiency, tap 3 every now and then to bring enemies from where they spawn, right to my face for me and my allies to slash them... beautiful. I can use my clone to extend the reach of this pulling effect further. Nice. Like a speedva on steroids. 

Skill 4: Hmm... I guess if I know where the enemies are coming from and which are the chokepoints, or intend to suck enemies to where I am currently standing with skill 3.... I drop my Sol Gate aka Ignis Wraith with infinite enemy punch through down this chokepoint or somewhere around me and press 3 to bring enemies to me. The Sol gate burns some of them. My allies and I can slaughter the remainder.  Seems cool. Making it cost more when picked up and hindering my movement speed, still makes it not friendly to carry and hold,  but it s a trade off I don't mind if it just lets me drop it down somewhere to effectively cut off a chokepoint.

Possible synergies with other players: Banshee can quake better since I drop enemies nearer to her epicenter. Allies who enjoy melee get a slash fest. Mesa, I bring everything into her line of sight and she just hoses them. Everyone using AOE guns or Lenz - thunderous applause.

Hey not bad. I suggested some moderate power increases and some features that require tapping 3 while channeling 4, and consideration of where to put 1 to use 1 as a refractive lens for offense as well, instead of just defense, but you went well beyond and gave me a teleport to surpassEdit: Rival Itzal, press 3 to win, and drop and forget Ignis Wraith. If I understood the way your abilities work correctly 

DE make this a reality already. Thanks.

 

 

 

Edited by Xepthrichros
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3 hours ago, Xepthrichros said:

Associating Titania and Revenant in this discussion about energy costs and ability gating like Baruuk, gives me red flags. Revenant's energy drain already annoys some folks, and it's not like his 4th goes through walls, but that is not enough?

Revenant's 4 actually does go through walls (all of the beams have innate punch-through), but moving swiftly on:

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How much drain do you want? Or do you prefer a Baruuk gate everywhere?

Neither, and I think I'm starting to see where the confusion is stemming from: I'm not trying to restrict the ability here, I want it to work with the rest of Revenant's kit better. Increasing the drain would just make for a more expensive ability with the same, shallow gameplay, and while a Baruuk gate could frame the ability as a reward rather than an always-on nuke, that doesn't really make sense on Revenant, whose kit or theme aren't really conducive to unleashing periodic bursts of massive power. Nerfing or restricting these abilities in those ways would therefore not improve the ability or Revenant as a whole, and so would not work towards the goal of making him more fun or interesting to play. Often, the problem with press-4-to-win frames isn't even with their 4, but with the rest of the kit, which doesn't mesh as well as it should: in Revenant's case, he's this confused mess of minion-mancer and Eidolon-themed nuker who's not terribly good at both, and who can't really do both at the same time because his 4 kills his largely useless minions (it turns them into pillars, but those too don't do much). Just to give an idea of what could be an alternative:

  • Passive - Haunt:
    • Revenant summons Vomvalyst servants from the corpses of enemies that die near him, up to a cap, which follow him and assist him in combat with homing projectile attacks. The health and damage of these Vomvalysts scales based on the level of the slain victim, as well as Power Strength, and once the cap is reached, further enemy deaths heal his most wounded Vomvalyst to full, and level them up to the victim's level.
    • Upon taking lethal damage, Revenant's spectral form exits his body, allowing him to move and use abilities, but not weapons or parkour. This form is immune to damage, crowd control and status, and is untargetable. Hitting enemies with abilities while in this spectral form heals Revenant, and upon healing a certain amount he revives automatically. This triggers even when playing solo, and allies can still revive Revenant by reviving his body.
  • 1 - Death Ray: Tap to command Revenant's Vomvalysts to move to the target area or focus the target enemy, hold to command them all to fire a death ray towards the target point, dealing Tau damage to all enemies the beam passing through. Enemies can be damaged by multiple beams at a time. Does not interrupt Revenant's movement or actions.
  • 2 - Assimilate: Tap to consume a Vomvalyst for healing and a brief period of total damage and status immunity, hold to consume all Vomvalysts at once, stacking the immunity duration. Costs no Energy, and does not interrupt Revenant's movement or actions.
  • 3 - Reave: Hold to charge, rendering Revenant and his Vomvalysts untargetable and pausing their actions while charging. On release, Revenant and his Vomvalysts all dash towards the target point, damaging and stunning enemies, increasing the longer the ability was charged. Affected enemies are also rendered partially intangible, causing Revenant and his allies' shots to punch through them while they're affected, while still dealing their full damage and effects.
  • 4 - Danse Macabre: Same as now, except instead of Revenant spinning, the Vomvalysts spin around him and project the beams in his stead, allowing him to use parkour and weapons while in effect. The damage per Vomvalyst beam should scale in such a way that using the ability at max Vomvalysts should exceed the current effect even when doubling the damage, and the Energy drain should be constant and drastically reduced from the base drain. Does not interrupt Revenant's movement or actions.

The idea here being:

  • While using his 4, Revenant would be able to use all of his other abilities, and would have reason to do so (Reave would still give a burst of movement, but then Death Ray would provide focused burst on tougher opponents, and Assimilate would provide protection on demand).
  • Revenant would still be able to spin to win, but this would still let him use his full range of actions, including parkour and movement, so he'd have more options overall.
  • Revenant's minions could be made to actually scale, and hopefully also have less crap AI in addition to more control over them (you'd get to tell them where to go).
  • Instead of clashing, Revenant's nuke would contribute to his minions by generating more corpses, and thus more Vomvalysts (which means he'd also be able to use 2 more frequently).
  • Revenant would remain a survivable frame, but would survive thanks to temporary protection power-ups, as well as actually coming back from the dead, which would not only fit the name better (he'd be an actual revenant), but also would play into his Eidolon theme, as Vomvalysts in particular have a similar ability.

So basically, instead of just pressing 4 and spinning to win with a restricted range of actions, while ignoring the rest of Revenant's ability set and maybe occasionally casting 2 (and suffering its incredibly long animation lock), you'd have an actual gameplay loop where you'd build up an army of minions that would give you increasingly more killing power and options, which would in turn make you better at raising more minions. Additionally, taking away all of Revenant's clunky animation locks and excessive Energy costs, while also always letting him use parkour and weapons, would likely make him feel much smoother to play, while also just being a straight-up buff, one he could easily afford due to being an overall fairly mediocre frame right now.

Quote

Titania's 4th is also not that great to begin with due to people disliking archwing mechanics generally, and it doesn't even require anything further to discourage usage. She actually needs buffs to make 1,2,3 more useful like some ideas which I've seen in this thread - wherein they mention Wisp's reservoir mechanic could benefit Titania if something similar was translated over. Why bring up things that not so-called game-breaking and imply more could be done to make them be used less? Anyway, when I see such a mentality, I began to wonder what you have in mind for an ideal Wisp. 

Because I don't actually consider Titania's 4 game-breaking either, and my intent is to make her use the rest of her ability set more, not to make her use her 4 less. Part of the confusion here is that, when I mention press-4-to-win abilities and criticize how they dominate a frame's kit, you seem to believe that this means I want those frames to use those abilities less, when the reality is that I want them to use their other abilities more, particularly if those abilities are hardly used at all (and the 4 can be used just as often as before, or even more often, that much doesn't matter). I am on your side here as well, as I also believe the way to fix Titania should be to make her 1, 2, and 3 more functional and useful, and not trash her 4. I could spitball a kit for her, ideally one that removes her lengthy cast animations, makes her CCed victims easier to hit, and makes her 2 grant 100% dodge chance as a tribute buff, but that's probably going to be kit overload for a single post.

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Surprisingly, your suggestions for Wisp actually make her OP. Fine with me, I take whatever I get. I already use her as she currently is and you apparently have something to make her stronger. 

Perhaps not the most important aspect of this, but to me, OP generally is a question of numbers and overall statistical performance, which is different from a kit being healthy or unhealthy, and thus which doesn't really matter to me: if a frame has such strong damage numbers that they can quickly kill level 200 Grineer enemies, they'd be OP, but that doesn't bother me too much personally, because the easy answer to that would be to just reduce their numbers if there ever is a risk of a larger problem in the game (e.g. the frame being used so often it doesn't give space for anyone else to be played), which doesn't necessarily even have to happen.

However, if a kit is unhealthy, that's when I get concerned: on one hand, a kit can have some design problems simply because the frame isn't fully functional, e.g. Revenant or Wisp. If a frame can't function properly because they're squishy and have to constantly stop themselves due to cast animations, for example, there's a problem, to which the solution should likely be to remove their cast animations and let them cast instantly without interruption. If a frame can go AFK and kill every enemy several rooms over without really doing anything, that's also a problem, one that should be addressed by making the frame more interactive relative to opponents. This is, for example, why I'd support a rework to Ember, one that should ideally buff her significantly, so that she can be strong without turning missions into a walking simulator for herself and the rest of her team.

In this respect, I'd be perfectly okay with Wisp being OP, if by "OP" it meant she'd just be very statistically strong. The kit I'm proposing is loaded with effects, many of which aren't strictly essential to her core functions, so if she ever overperformed, she could always have any of those effects reduced or removed, which isn't hard to do. If, however, the kit would let her do things no frame should ever be allowed to do (e.g. instantly win a mission), then that's when there'd be a design problem, which would be more difficult to approach.

Quote

My thoughts on your suggestions

Skill 1. I'd definitely use that. Question: if I am Wisp's ally, can I trigger a teleport between apertures myself or do I need to wait for my ally Wisp to allow me? What's the difference between active and inactive portal? Active meaning permission given by a Wisp? I guess I can go on to POE. drop one portal at the gate. Take my sniper scope out to see how far it goes, and drop a second portal there. Very good and will address the Itzal thing too  If an ally uses my portal, does it cost my energy or his? Also, Nova be like "what about me?"

The idea here is that the portals would basically function like those in Portal, the video game: an inactive portal would simply be a single portal that's not yet connected to another (and an active one would be a pair of connected portals), and traveling through a portal would be just a matter of moving through it, without requiring any other input. The Energy cost would only be for Wisp to deploy the portal, there wouldn't be any other cost to travel through. This would outperform Nova's Wormhole in many respects, but then Nova would still have the advantage of being able to instantly teleport large distances without any prior setup, while also being able to teleport enemies this way as well. To be honest, Wormhole itself could use some buffs, e.g. by punching through terrain, and thereby allowing Nova to take paths no other frame could take.

Quote

Skill 3: Will your trapped enemies delay progress of a defense mission? How long can they be stuck in my mirror dimension? (I can cosframe as Dr Strange even more now) If they are stuck in there with nobody allowed to shoot them, and if it is a player who doesn't know how the ability works, will we get another Limbo Rift issue? Once those things are resolved. Ok, if mod for max ability range and efficiency, tap 3 every now and then to bring enemies from where they spawn, right to my face for me and my allies to slash them... beautiful. I can use my clone to extend the reach of this pulling effect further. Nice. Like a speedva on steroids.

Vanished enemies should count as not existing, and so shouldn't halt Defense/Interception/Exterminate missions. Theoretically, I intended for the effect to last indefinitely, as Wisp would have to let those enemies go to use the ability again, but also because those enemies would disappear completely, there'd be no visible target for allies to be presented with: this I think would eliminate the frustration tied to effects like Limbo's Rift, which leaves behind enemies while interfering with the way players can fight them.

Quote

Skill 4: Hmm... I guess if I know where the enemies are coming from and which are the chokepoints, or intend to suck enemies to where I am currently standing with skill 3.... I drop my Sol Gate aka Ignis Wraith with infinite enemy punch through down this chokepoint or somewhere around me and press 3 to bring enemies to me. The Sol gate burns some of them. My allies and I can slaughter the remainder.  Seems cool. Making it cost more when picked up and hindering my movement speed, still makes it not friendly to carry and hold,  but it s a trade off I don't mind if it just lets me drop it down somewhere to effectively cut off a chokepoint.

Possible synergies with other players: Banshee can quake better since I drop enemies nearer to her epicenter. Allies who enjoy melee get a slash fest. Mesa, I bring everything into her line of sight and she just hoses them. Everyone using AOE guns or Lenz - thunderous applause.

Hey not bad. I suggested some moderate power increases and some features that require tapping 3 while channeling 4, and consideration of where to put 1 to use 1 as a refractive lens for offense as well, instead of just defense, but you went well beyond and gave me a teleport to surpass Itzal, press 3 to win, and drop and forget Ignis Wraith. If I understood the way your abilities work correctly 

DE make this a reality already. Thanks.

Thank you! And yeah, this is pretty much my intention: I want Wisp to be more fun to play, as well as more functional at all levels of play, and my issues with her current kit are simply that it doesn't really mesh with her theme, and only gives her a limited set of options that are themselves not particularly interesting. In this respect, I would rather give her more powerful and versatile effects, along with all of the QoL buffs she needs, just so that she can feel good to play while also remaining healthy, rather than simply pile lots of AoE damage so that she'd be strong no matter what.

Edited by Teridax68
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The tick rate for sol gate is still pre-beam-weapon-buff tier. On that note, don't know why the haste mote synergy doesn't increase its fire rate instead of damage, the health mote could then increase the damage by 100% to make up for it too.

Surge breach also still doesn't focus more on the sparks than the blind so it kinda loses its functional identity against other radial blinds, especially with the line of sight requirement.

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