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(The Jovian Concord: Update 25) Wisp Feedback

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Could there please by an option to use the unarmed animation set for wisp while melee is out? It really sticks out like a sore thumb seeing her running around with no feet.

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On 2019-06-08 at 11:31 AM, .Fire_Fly. said:

but my main problem is in vary large Interception missions there is always one team mate to far from the reservoirs at all times and never can seem to get the buff properly and thus just ignores the buffs all together, so my request goes to team mates not for myself but for the team to have easier access to my buffs. 

That's honestly on them then. If they refuse to be situationally aware and grab the buffs in between groups then they have no one to blame but themselves. Mobility is king in this game and that includes being mobile enough to interact with your team and not just sit in one spot like a turret

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Xepthrichros said:

Hilarious. You can't help yourself can't you? ūü§£¬†But lets just focus on how you respond to an actual suggestion that contradicts your views then, shall we? I won't even bother going too much into it cos it shows with just a few statements.

... which is why you took the time to make this particular comment in response to a quote you fabricated, as opposed to something I actually said. As you yourself put so well: you can't help yourself, can you? :wink:

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So, the area about the size of a crypod and the vicinity around it is considered a LOT to you?  Noted. You hate AOE. Even a small one. This isn't even going to reach enemy spawn locations like a Resonating Quake can, and yet you are displeased.

I don't hate AoE, I just find it an utterly unnecessary addition to a giant death beam that already doesn't need much aim to do its job. Moreover, your weaselling on the details here undermines your point: if the AoE is so small as to be insignificant, why have it in the first place?

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Misrepresentation of my idea. A small area the size of a cryopod or so is not "everyone regardless of direction". . And as already said, I say to point the laser at the reservoirs and they need to be close together for the linking to occur. If you bothered to picture it properly in your head and stop being angry for a moment, this is a small area, not a large area. 

But that's the thing: you didn't simply ask for "a small area the size of a cryopod", you're asking for up to six separate instances of that, plus the Sol Gate beam itself getting multiplied just by colliding with a reservoir. No matter what spin you try to put, the fact remains that you are asking for Sol Gate to be able to affect more enemies in more directions beyond the one the player is aiming, on an effect that is already ridiculously easy to aim. Trying to placate me by telling me that these effects are actually unimpactful just makes the entire suggestion even sillier and all the more unnecessary. Why are you even asking to give Sol Gate more AoE? The fact that you've failed to justify yourself even a little bit on this just makes it look all the more like you just want to have the game play itself, with no real input demanded on the player's part.

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And you proved that you are exactly as I accused.¬† "Juvenile" ding, name calling, "Eliminate all difficulty"¬†Ding, Misrepresenting my point. "Not worth listening to". Ding. Intolerant. ūüĎŹ

"Nerf lover" ding, name calling. "Smack talks anyone who has a differing view and deems them unworthy of being listened to" Ding, misrepresenting my point. "Not inclusive, while pretending to be innocent". Ding. Intolerant.¬†ūüĎŹ

But honestly, do you even read what you post? Who are you trying to fool here, when you have proven time and again that the vitriol you are spewing here describes your own actions better than anyone here? You don't get to whine about "name calling" when you are the main perpetrator, nor do you get to talk about misrepresenting my point when you have outright lied in an attempt to make a straw man out of me, nor do you get to accuse me of intolerance when you yourself chose to start this argument purely because you could not tolerate my differing opinion, which I hadn't even directed towards you.

Your buff requests for Wisp explicitly aim to turn her directional damage beam into a radial nuke, and thereby eliminate the one player input it relies upon in favor of just pure power without gameplay: you are effectively demanding to to win without investing any effort, a demand with the exact same mentality as a child demanding a trophy for a competition they did not participate in, so your request is quite literally juvenile in nature. As shown already, your demands not only involve eliminating the need to aim in order to kill enemies, but also eliminating the ability for those enemies to fight back, so if this isn't eliminating all difficulty tied to using the ability, what difficulty is left? Ultimately, all of your requests visibly do not care about genuinely improving the champion's gameplay, so much as making her more powerful and bending her towards you intended playstyle of pressing a single button to win, without any further effort required, so even when you do talk about Wisp, you are still evidently not worth listening to.

An aspect of argumentation you have apparently failed to notice is that when you imitate someone else, you need to either make sure the context is appropriate, or that your mirroring of their arguments is justified: as it stands, you have utterly failed in both respects, and have only parroted the vaguest trappings of my criticisms or arguments without any regards for whether or not doing so was appropriate or substantiated, which has only served to make you look more ridiculous. I can justify my arguments because I know what I'm saying; you visibly can't, because you don't.

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There you are. A person who is against efficiency, a nerf lover, who smack talks anyone who has a differing view and deems them unworthy of being listened to, intolerant and not inclusive, while pretending to be innocent, and if you want to know what is that post in question I refer to where you want Wisp and warframes in general to be nerfed, do you own homework and memory search, or just search this topic for all the times "Titania" comes up.

So I actually did do the work, and this is literally the one post I have made on this thread where Titania comes up:

On 2019-06-06 at 2:30 PM, Teridax68 said:

I'm inclined to agree: I think there's potential to give certain frames mode-switching damage abilities if there's genuine interaction with the rest of the kit (e.g. Exalted Blade and Radial Blind), or if there's a strong enough gate to prevent the ability from being used all the time (e.g. Baruuk's Restraint for Serene Storm), but all too often the ability boils down to "forget everything else, you're doing this thing now". When the ability does not interact with the rest of the kit, the frame becomes a fairly shallow one-ability-wonder when using it (e.g. Revenant or Titania), and when the ability has no proper gate (and Energy isn't a proper gate due to how easily it can be generated at higher levels), there's practically no reason to use anything else but the ability all of the time. Sol Gate can be used on-demand at all times and the only synergy it has with Wisp's kit is forced, so it is not surprising that it would run into those exact same issues. In the future, if DE wants to add more weapon-like abilities, they should make sure those abilities let the rest of the frame's kit breathe and still see proper use.

So tell me: where did I suggest any nerf to Titania? Where did I do this for Wisp? For all your talk about doing your own homework, you still conspicuously refuse to do so, even after I have done your own job of honoring your burden of proof. At no point did I suggest any nerf to anyone on this thread, any my opposition to "efficiency" has been defined at length as an opposition to abilities that outright remove gameplay and worsen it just to provide more power, a set of abilities you are inexplicably set on defending (and, more laughable still, that you consider a legitimate hill to die on). You are very obviously lying, and it shows that you are incapable of justifying yourself, just as you have been incapable of adding any substance to all the other lies and slander you have dropped on this thread.

Just to show you how it's done, by the way, and to stay at least somewhat on topic, here's my own take on how Wisp could be changed, off the top of my head:

  • Effects in¬†red¬†are affected by¬†Power Strength, effects¬†in¬†green¬†are affected by¬†Power Duration, effects in¬†yellow¬†are affected by¬†Power Range, and effects in¬†blue¬†are affected by¬†Power Efficiency.
  • Passive - Phased:¬†Standardize the ability by removing the special-cased decloak on hard landing, and by keeping Wisp cloaked while firing silenced weapons.
  • 1 - Aperture:¬†On tap, Wisp fires an orb in the target direction that forms a portal upon contact with terrain, which lasts indefinitely and is invisible to enemies. Firing a second orb connects the two portals, allowing Wisp, her allies, and their effects to travel through as if there were no distance in-between. Warframes that touch a portal, even an inactive one,¬†surge with dimensional energy for¬†19 / 22 / 26 / 30¬†seconds, gaining¬†300¬†bonus maximum health,¬†30¬†bonus health regeneration per second,¬†20%¬†increased movement and melee attack speed,¬†30%¬†increased fire rate, and a charge that shocks up to 5 enemies within¬†15¬†meters with chain lightning every 3 seconds, dealing¬†10¬†Electric damage with 100% status chance and a¬†3¬†second stun duration. Allied projectiles and beams have their¬†size¬†and¬†damage¬†increased by 20 / 30 / 40 / 50% after passing through a portal, stacking additively. Can have up to three separate sets of portals this way (6 portals total), and holding switches to a new set of portals to fire, cycling automatically after laying down a pair of portals. Each portal costs¬†25¬†Energy to deploy, and throwing a portal orb is a one-handed action that does not interrupt any of Wisp's actions or movement.
  • 2 - Will-O-Wisp:¬†Base movement speed on clone increased, based on a multiplier of Wisp's own current movement speed and momentum.¬†Teleporting to the clone conserves and redirects Wisp's momentum forward.
  • 3 - Breach:¬†Wisp and her clone briefly lift¬†the barrier to the Void within them, instantly pulling in all enemies within¬†11 / 13 / 16 / 18¬†meters of them and making them disappear. Upon recast, Wisp releases the trapped enemies, causing them to reappear at her location and become ¬†for¬†7 / 9 / 12 / 16¬†seconds. While stunned, enemies are open to melee finishers and are also entangled to another nearby enemy, causing all status effects and¬†25 / 50 / 75 / 100%¬†of damage¬†applied to one target to also be applied to the other. Recasting Breach while Will-O-Wisp's clone is out releases the trapped enemies at the clone's location instead. Costs¬†50¬†Energy, and casting Breach does not interrupt any of Wisp's actions or movement.
  • 4 - Sol Gate:¬†Wisp opens a portal to the Sun which remains¬†at the cast location, firing a continuous beam of infinite range and enemy punch-through¬†that deals¬†3000 / 3300 / 3750 / 4500¬†continuous damage, split equally between Heat and Radiation, with a 100% status chance. While affected by the beam, enemies are stripped of their armor, continually staggered away from the source, blinded, and rendered increasingly vulnerable to its damage. Costs¬†25¬†Energy to cast,¬†and drains¬†12¬†Energy¬†per second¬†while in use.¬†Wisp can pick up the portal and hold it while it is out, slowing her movement and preventing her from parkouring, while also doubling the drain.

Notes on this:

  • All of the Reservoir buffs are preserved. I don't think they're strictly necessary for the above version of the ability to function, but the buffs aren't game-breaking, and if keeping them makes more people happy, why not.
  • Same with the Breach disable/spread effect and the Sol Gate pickup mechanic. Effectively, all of these¬†changes would preserve the original abilities'¬†gameplay, or at least still enable it,¬†while adding new elements, making them direct buffs.
  • Many commonly suggested QoL buffs, e.g. buffs to her invisibility and clone speed, are included.
  • Changing Reservoirs to portals, and making Sol Gate a static deployable rather than a weapon would make Wisp far more mobile overall, while also playing more with her portal theme. In fact, with perfect play you could remain airborne with her essentially indefinitely, using a combination of portals and clone teleports to avoid touching the ground.
  • Wisp would have several more "oh sh*t" buttons if she gets caught in a bad situation: because enemies can't use her portals, she could use them to make a clean escape, and Breach would be more effective than the current Breach Surge at preventing nearby enemies from killing her. Thus, she'd have more survivability, especially at higher levels.
  • The kit would have many more natural synergies: portals to travel through would allow Wisp to send her clone to travel much farther, plus both would let her use Breach to place enemies exactly where she wants them, such as her Sol Gate beam, which she'd also be able to pass through her portals for bonus coverage and damage.
  • Overall, the above playstyle would be more likely to fit her theme (she'd have actual portals as a portal frame,¬†and would be encouraged to think with portals), as well as the more mobile and indirect¬†gameplay suggested by her innate and 2 (she'd be encouraged to be constantly on the move, and use her mobility to her advantage to trap and misdirect enemies).

Hopefully, this should show where we differ: my criticism of your proposals is that they ultimately don't improve upon Wisp's gameplay in any manner, they just intend to add power and nothing else (and the way in which they add power would make her gameplay shallower and less interactive). Meanwhile, I want Wisp to become genuinely more functional and truer to her theme, while also giving her more options, and more opportunities to express mastery and skill. Thus far, you have deliberately misrepresented my position by accusing my criticism of press-4-to-win abilities to be a request for nerfs, but the reality of the matter is that I don't really care about nerfing or buffing a frame's numbers in most circumstances: in Wisp's case, I have no intention of nerfing her 4, I just think it needs better interaction with the rest of her kit, interaction that can be fostered through buffs, such as the above. These buffs can be to the abilities around the 4, or to the 4 itself, provided they enable more interesting synergy than forced stat bonuses. Ultimately, we may never be able to find common ground, but that may have to do because you appear to truly, genuinely want to change the game's design in such a way that it lets you win without any effort whatsoever, whereas I want to make frames more interactive and fun to play above all else.

Edited by Teridax68

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Posted (edited)

 

8 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

So tell me: where did I suggest any nerf to Titania? Where did I do this for Wisp? For all your talk about doing your own homework, you still conspicuously refuse to do so, even after I have done your own job of honoring your burden of proof. At no point did I suggest any nerf to anyone on this thread, any my opposition to "efficiency" has been defined at length as an opposition to abilities that outright remove gameplay and worsen it just to provide more power, a set of abilities you are inexplicably set on defending (and, more laughable still, that you consider a legitimate hill to die on). You are very obviously lying, and it shows that you are incapable of justifying yourself, just as you have been incapable of adding any substance to all the other lies and slander you have dropped on this thre

So you finally found it. I was beginning to be concerned your account was hacked and I was arguing with two people.  So, you said

"I'm inclined to agree: I think there's potential to give certain frames mode-switching damage abilities if there's genuine interaction with the rest of the kit (e.g. Exalted Blade and Radial Blind), or if there's a strong enough gate to prevent the ability from being used all the timeÔĽŅ¬†(e.g. Baruuk's Restraint for Serene Storm), but all too often the ability boils down to "forget everything else, you're doing this thing now". When the ability does not interact with the rest of the kit,¬†the frame becomes a fairly shallow¬†one-ability-wonder when using it¬†(e.g. Revenant or Titania), and when the ability has no proper gate (and Energy isn't a proper gate due to how easily it can be generated at higher levels), there's practically no reason to use anything else but the ability all of the timÔĽŅeÔĽŅ. Sol Gate can be used on-demand at all times and the only synergy it has with Wisp's kit is forced, so it is not surprising that it would run into those exact same issues. In the future, if DE wants to add more weapon-like abilities, they should make sure those abilities let the rest of the frame's kit breathe and still see proper use."

Ok then. I will assume, since you vehemently claim you are not a person who wants nerfs, that you indeed are NOT such a person and just wants to improve the game  (though a brief scroll into your history of posts all over the forums might suggest otherwise, but that will go into even further off topic). I'll just focus on what you said, since this is what got me in the first place. Associating Titania and Revenant in this discussion about energy costs and ability gating like Baruuk, gives me red flags. Revenant's energy drain already annoys some folks, and it's not like his 4th goes through walls, but that is not enough? How much drain do you want? Or do you prefer a Baruuk gate everywhere? Titania's 4th is also not that great to begin with due to people disliking archwing mechanics generally, and it doesn't even require anything further to discourage usage. She actually needs buffs to make 1,2,3 more useful like some ideas which I've seen in this thread - wherein they mention Wisp's reservoir mechanic could benefit Titania if something similar was translated over. Why bring up things that not so-called game-breaking and imply more could be done to make them be used less? Anyway, when I see such a mentality, I began to wonder what you have in mind for an ideal Wisp. 

Surprisingly, your suggestions for Wisp actually make her OP. Fine with me, I take whatever I get. I already use her as she currently is and you apparently have something to make her stronger. 

My thoughts on your suggestions

Skill 1. I'd definitely use that. Question: if I am Wisp's ally, can I trigger a teleport between apertures myself or do I need to wait for my ally Wisp to allow me? What's the difference between active and inactive portal? Active meaning permission given by a Wisp? I guess I can go on to POE. drop one portal at the gate. Take my sniper scope out to see how far it goes, and drop a second portal there. Very good and will address the Itzal thing too  If an ally uses my portal, does it cost my energy or his? Also, Nova be like "what about me?"

Skill 2: Base movement speed of clone definitely needs an increase. I have had instances where I managed to bullet jump and race my clone to the finish line at almost the same speed. Unless this is intended by DE, and one of the ways DE thought we can use it, is to run down the same corridor with a clone beside us to sorta confound enemies as they see double. 

Skill 3: Will your trapped enemies delay progress of a defense mission? How long can they be stuck in my mirror dimension? (I can cosframe as Dr Strange even more now) If they are stuck in there with nobody allowed to shoot them, and if it is a player who doesn't know how the ability works, will we get another Limbo Rift issue? Once those things are resolved. Ok, if mod for max ability range and efficiency, tap 3 every now and then to bring enemies from where they spawn, right to my face for me and my allies to slash them... beautiful. I can use my clone to extend the reach of this pulling effect further. Nice. Like a speedva on steroids. 

Skill 4: Hmm... I guess if I know where the enemies are coming from and which are the chokepoints, or intend to suck enemies to where I am currently standing with skill 3.... I drop my Sol Gate aka Ignis Wraith with infinite enemy punch through down this chokepoint or somewhere around me and press 3 to bring enemies to me. The Sol gate burns some of them. My allies and I can slaughter the remainder.  Seems cool. Making it cost more when picked up and hindering my movement speed, still makes it not friendly to carry and hold,  but it s a trade off I don't mind if it just lets me drop it down somewhere to effectively cut off a chokepoint.

Possible synergies with other players: Banshee can quake better since I drop enemies nearer to her epicenter. Allies who enjoy melee get a slash fest. Mesa, I bring everything into her line of sight and she just hoses them. Everyone using AOE guns or Lenz - thunderous applause.

Hey not bad. I suggested some moderate power increases and some features that require tapping 3 while channeling 4, and consideration of where to put 1 to use 1 as a refractive lens for offense as well, instead of just defense, but you went well beyond and gave me a teleport to surpassEdit: Rival Itzal, press 3 to win, and drop and forget Ignis Wraith. If I understood the way your abilities work correctly 

DE make this a reality already. Thanks.

 

 

 

Edited by Xepthrichros

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Xepthrichros said:

Associating Titania and Revenant in this discussion about energy costs and ability gating like Baruuk, gives me red flags. Revenant's energy drain already annoys some folks, and it's not like his 4th goes through walls, but that is not enough?

Revenant's 4 actually does go through walls (all of the beams have innate punch-through), but moving swiftly on:

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How much drain do you want? Or do you prefer a Baruuk gate everywhere?

Neither, and I think I'm starting to see where the confusion is stemming from: I'm not trying to restrict the ability here, I want it to work with the rest of Revenant's kit better. Increasing the drain would just make for a more expensive ability with the same, shallow gameplay, and while a Baruuk gate could frame the ability as a reward rather than an always-on nuke, that doesn't really make sense on Revenant, whose kit or theme aren't really conducive to unleashing periodic bursts of massive power. Nerfing or restricting these abilities in those ways would therefore not improve the ability or Revenant as a whole, and so would not work towards the goal of making him more fun or interesting to play. Often, the problem with press-4-to-win frames isn't even with their 4, but with the rest of the kit, which doesn't mesh as well as it should: in Revenant's case, he's this confused mess of minion-mancer and Eidolon-themed nuker who's not terribly good at both, and who can't really do both at the same time because his 4 kills his largely useless minions (it turns them into pillars, but those too don't do much). Just to give an idea of what could be an alternative:

  • Passive - Haunt:
    • Revenant summons Vomvalyst servants from the corpses of enemies that die near him, up to a cap, which follow him and assist him in combat with homing projectile attacks. The health and damage of these Vomvalysts scales based on¬†the level of the slain victim, as well as Power Strength, and once the cap is reached, further enemy deaths heal his most wounded Vomvalyst to full, and level them up to the victim's level.
    • Upon taking lethal damage,¬†Revenant's spectral form exits his body, allowing him to move and use abilities, but not weapons or parkour. This form is immune to damage, crowd control and status, and is untargetable.¬†Hitting enemies with abilities while in this spectral form heals Revenant, and upon healing a certain amount he revives automatically. This triggers even when playing solo, and allies can still revive Revenant by reviving his body.
  • 1 - Death Ray:¬†Tap to command Revenant's Vomvalysts to move to the target area or focus the target enemy, hold to command them all to fire a death ray towards the target point, dealing Tau damage to all enemies the beam passing through. Enemies can be damaged by multiple beams at a time. Does not interrupt Revenant's movement or actions.
  • 2 - Assimilate:¬†Tap to consume a Vomvalyst for healing and a brief period of total damage and status immunity, hold to consume all Vomvalysts at once, stacking the immunity duration. Costs no Energy, and does not interrupt Revenant's movement or actions.
  • 3 - Reave:¬†Hold to charge, rendering Revenant and his Vomvalysts untargetable and pausing their actions¬†while charging. On release, Revenant and his Vomvalysts all dash towards the target point, damaging and stunning enemies, increasing the longer the ability was charged. Affected enemies are also rendered partially intangible,¬†causing Revenant and his allies' shots¬†to punch through them while they're affected, while still dealing their full damage and effects.
  • 4 - Danse Macabre:¬†Same as now, except instead of Revenant spinning, the Vomvalysts spin around him and project the beams in his stead, allowing him to use parkour and weapons while in effect. The damage per Vomvalyst beam should scale in such a way that using the ability at max Vomvalysts should exceed¬†the current effect even when doubling the damage, and the Energy drain should be constant and¬†drastically reduced from the base drain. Does not interrupt Revenant's movement or actions.

The idea here being:

  • While using his 4, Revenant would be able to use all of his other abilities, and would have reason to do so (Reave would still give a burst of movement, but then Death Ray would provide focused burst on tougher opponents, and Assimilate would provide protection on demand).
  • Revenant would still be able to spin to win, but this would still let him use his full range of actions, including parkour and movement, so he'd have more options overall.
  • Revenant's minions could be made to actually scale, and hopefully also have less crap AI in addition to more control over them (you'd get to tell them where to go).
  • Instead of clashing, Revenant's nuke would contribute to his minions by generating more corpses, and thus more Vomvalysts (which means he'd also be able to use 2 more frequently).
  • Revenant would remain a survivable frame, but would survive thanks to temporary protection power-ups, as well as actually coming back from the dead, which would not only fit the name better (he'd be an actual revenant), but also would play into his Eidolon theme, as Vomvalysts in particular have a similar ability.

So basically, instead of just pressing 4 and spinning to win with a restricted range of actions, while ignoring the rest of Revenant's ability set and maybe occasionally casting 2 (and suffering its incredibly long animation lock), you'd have an actual gameplay loop where you'd build up an army of minions that would give you increasingly more killing power and options, which would in turn make you better at raising more minions. Additionally, taking away all of Revenant's clunky animation locks and excessive Energy costs, while also always letting him use parkour and weapons, would likely make him feel much smoother to play, while also just being a straight-up buff, one he could easily afford due to being an overall fairly mediocre frame right now.

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Titania's 4th is also not that great to begin with due to people disliking archwing mechanics generally, and it doesn't even require anything further to discourage usage. She actually needs buffs to make 1,2,3 more useful like some ideas which I've seen in this thread - wherein they mention Wisp's reservoir mechanic could benefit Titania if something similar was translated over. Why bring up things that not so-called game-breaking and imply more could be done to make them be used less? Anyway, when I see such a mentality, I began to wonder what you have in mind for an ideal Wisp. 

Because I don't actually consider Titania's 4 game-breaking either, and my intent is to make her use the rest of her ability set more, not to make her use her 4 less. Part of the confusion here is that, when I mention press-4-to-win abilities and criticize how they dominate a frame's kit, you seem to believe that this means I want those frames to use those abilities less, when the reality is that I want them to use their other abilities more, particularly if those abilities are hardly used at all (and the 4 can be used just as often as before, or even more often, that much doesn't matter). I am on your side here as well, as I also believe the way to fix Titania should be to make her 1, 2, and 3 more functional and useful, and not trash her 4. I could spitball a kit for her, ideally one that removes her lengthy cast animations, makes her CCed victims easier to hit, and makes her 2 grant 100% dodge chance as a tribute buff, but that's probably going to be kit overload for a single post.

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Surprisingly, your suggestions for Wisp actually make her OP. Fine with me, I take whatever I get. I already use her as she currently is and you apparently have something to make her stronger. 

Perhaps not the most important aspect of this, but to me, OP generally is a question of numbers and overall statistical performance, which is different from a kit being healthy or unhealthy, and thus which doesn't really matter to me: if a frame has such strong damage numbers that they can quickly kill level 200 Grineer enemies, they'd be OP, but that doesn't bother me too much personally, because the easy answer to that would be to just reduce their numbers if there ever is a risk of a larger problem in the game (e.g. the frame being used so often it doesn't give space for anyone else to be played), which doesn't necessarily even have to happen.

However, if a kit is unhealthy, that's when I get concerned: on one hand, a kit can have some design problems simply because the frame isn't fully functional, e.g. Revenant or Wisp. If a frame can't function properly because they're squishy and have to constantly stop themselves due to cast animations, for example, there's a problem, to which the solution should likely be to remove their cast animations and let them cast instantly without interruption. If a frame can go AFK and kill every enemy several rooms over without really doing anything, that's also a problem, one that should be addressed by making the frame more interactive relative to opponents. This is, for example, why I'd support a rework to Ember, one that should ideally buff her significantly, so that she can be strong without turning missions into a walking simulator for herself and the rest of her team.

In this respect, I'd be perfectly okay with Wisp being OP, if by "OP" it meant she'd just be very statistically strong. The kit I'm proposing is loaded with effects, many of which aren't strictly essential to her core functions, so if she ever overperformed, she could always have any of those effects reduced or removed, which isn't hard to do. If, however, the kit would let her do things no frame should ever be allowed to do (e.g. instantly win a mission), then that's when there'd be a design problem, which would be more difficult to approach.

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My thoughts on your suggestions

Skill 1. I'd definitely use that. Question: if I am Wisp's ally, can I trigger a teleport between apertures myself or do I need to wait for my ally Wisp to allow me? What's the difference between active and inactive portal? Active meaning permission given by a Wisp? I guess I can go on to POE. drop one portal at the gate. Take my sniper scope out to see how far it goes, and drop a second portal there. Very good and will address the Itzal thing too  If an ally uses my portal, does it cost my energy or his? Also, Nova be like "what about me?"

The idea here is that the portals would basically function like those in Portal, the video game: an inactive portal would simply be a single portal that's not yet connected to another (and an active one would be a pair of connected portals), and traveling through a portal would be just a matter of moving through it, without requiring any other input. The Energy cost would only be for Wisp to deploy the portal, there wouldn't be any other cost to travel through. This would outperform Nova's Wormhole in many respects, but then Nova would still have the advantage of being able to instantly teleport large distances without any prior setup, while also being able to teleport enemies this way as well. To be honest, Wormhole itself could use some buffs, e.g. by punching through terrain, and thereby allowing Nova to take paths no other frame could take.

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Skill 3: Will your trapped enemies delay progress of a defense mission? How long can they be stuck in my mirror dimension? (I can cosframe as Dr Strange even more now) If they are stuck in there with nobody allowed to shoot them, and if it is a player who doesn't know how the ability works, will we get another Limbo Rift issue? Once those things are resolved. Ok, if mod for max ability range and efficiency, tap 3 every now and then to bring enemies from where they spawn, right to my face for me and my allies to slash them... beautiful. I can use my clone to extend the reach of this pulling effect further. Nice. Like a speedva on steroids.

Vanished enemies should count as not existing, and so shouldn't halt Defense/Interception/Exterminate missions. Theoretically, I intended for the effect to last indefinitely, as Wisp would have to let those enemies go to use the ability again, but also because those enemies would disappear completely, there'd be no visible target for allies to be presented with: this I think would eliminate the frustration tied to effects like Limbo's Rift, which leaves behind enemies while interfering with the way players can fight them.

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Skill 4: Hmm... I guess if I know where the enemies are coming from and which are the chokepoints, or intend to suck enemies to where I am currently standing with skill 3.... I drop my Sol Gate aka Ignis Wraith with infinite enemy punch through down this chokepoint or somewhere around me and press 3 to bring enemies to me. The Sol gate burns some of them. My allies and I can slaughter the remainder.  Seems cool. Making it cost more when picked up and hindering my movement speed, still makes it not friendly to carry and hold,  but it s a trade off I don't mind if it just lets me drop it down somewhere to effectively cut off a chokepoint.

Possible synergies with other players: Banshee can quake better since I drop enemies nearer to her epicenter. Allies who enjoy melee get a slash fest. Mesa, I bring everything into her line of sight and she just hoses them. Everyone using AOE guns or Lenz - thunderous applause.

Hey not bad. I suggested some moderate power increases and some features that require tapping 3 while channeling 4, and consideration of where to put 1 to use 1 as a refractive lens for offense as well, instead of just defense, but you went well beyond and gave me a teleport to surpass Itzal, press 3 to win, and drop and forget Ignis Wraith. If I understood the way your abilities work correctly 

DE make this a reality already. Thanks.

Thank you! And yeah, this is pretty much my intention: I want Wisp to be more fun to play, as well as more functional at all levels of play, and my issues with her current kit are simply that it doesn't really mesh with her theme, and only gives her a limited set of options that are themselves not particularly interesting. In this respect, I would rather give her more powerful and versatile effects, along with all of the QoL buffs she needs, just so that she can feel good to play while also remaining healthy, rather than simply pile lots of AoE damage so that she'd be strong no matter what.

Edited by Teridax68

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The tick rate for sol gate is still pre-beam-weapon-buff tier. On that note, don't know why the haste mote synergy doesn't increase its fire rate instead of damage, the health mote could then increase the damage by 100% to make up for it too.

Surge breach also still doesn't focus more on the sparks than the blind so it kinda loses its functional identity against other radial blinds, especially with the line of sight requirement.

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

~~snip~~

But she (Wisp) already works great though... why can't we just enjoy her the way she is *now*?

Don't get me wrong, some of your ideas sound awesome and fun... but on another/new warframe instead.  I like my bby wisp the way she is.

Edit: And tbh, your aperture would have great synergy with wisp's reservoirs; so would wisp's "breach surge" with your "breach". So yeah, it just sounds like it would be an awesome new warframe.

 

Edited by Maka.Bones

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10 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

But she already works great though... why can't we just enjoy her the way she is *now*?

Don't get me wrong, some of your ideas sound awesome and fun... but on another/new warframe instead.  I like my bby wisp the way she is.

I mean, I did point out my criticism of Wisp, criticism other users have pointed out as well: she's not fully functional, she doesn't really deliver on her theme, and her 4 in its current form goes directly against the gameplay encouraged by her 2 and passive. My proposals also specifically aimed to purely add to Wisp's existing gameplay, meaning you could do literally all of the things she can do now, plus some extra stuff. You are, obviously, allowed to like Wisp the way she is and not want any further change, but then I am allowed to not like some aspects of her and want her to change by that same token.

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Just now, Teridax68 said:

I mean, I did point out my criticism of Wisp, criticism other users have pointed out as well: she's not fully functional, she doesn't really deliver on her theme, and her 4 in its current form goes directly against the gameplay encouraged by her 2 and passive. My proposals also specifically aimed to purely add to Wisp's existing gameplay, meaning you could do literally all of the things she can do now, plus some extra stuff. You are, obviously, allowed to like Wisp the way she is and not want any further change, but then I am allowed to not like some aspects of her and want her to change by that same token.

From other player's perspectives, it would feel more like it's just taking away from her gameplay. Yes you're allowed to have your preferences, but DE has already spent plenty of time & money (which are limited resources btw) on creating the wisp we currently have. So drastic changes seem kinda unwarranted. Also, just because Reb said "she's a portal-themed frame" doesn't mean she meant like the game "portal"...  Her theme is abstract & incorporeal, just like a wisp is; her theme already follows her just fine. 

Hence why i've said that it would be an awesome idea on a new warframe.  Your ideas are great, but your thought process & reasoning doesn't really justify spending more resources on a warframe that's already loved my many & popular as she is. Especially not when there is already a long list of things that DE is currently working on, and needs to fix/rework/improve on. 

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Just now, Maka.Bones said:

From other player's perspectives, it would feel more like it's just taking away from her gameplay. Yes you're allowed to have your preferences, but DE has already spent plenty of time & money (which are limited resources btw) on creating the wisp we currently have. So drastic changes seem kinda unwarranted. Also, just because Reb said "she's a portal-themed frame" doesn't mean she meant like the game "portal"...  Her theme is abstract & incorporeal, just like a wisp is; her theme already follows her just fine. 

Taking away from her gameplay... how? You'd have the exact same buffs, mechanics, and CC effects, used in the same way, but would also get portals and stationary lasers, so you'd have strictly more gameplay. DE has spent "plenty of time and money", both of which are obviously limited, on literally every frame... and yet we still see plenty of frame reworks, because it doesn't matter how much time and money you put into something if that thing's a dud: unless you change something, it's still going to be a dud. Also, if Wisp's theme is abstract and incorporeal, what's with the plants? What's with the big laser gun? How exactly are those thematic? How do either of those function with a passive and a 2 that encourage Wisp to be airborne and mobile as much as possible?

Just now, Maka.Bones said:

Hence why i've said that it would be an awesome idea on a new warframe.  Your ideas are great, but your thought process & reasoning doesn't really justify spending more resources on a warframe that's already loved my many & popular as she is. Especially not when there is already a long list of things that DE is currently working on, and needs to fix/rework/improve on. 

Already loved by many... where? Popular as she is... to whom? Just you? Because it does not take any particularly lengthy read on this very thread, the official Wisp feedback thread, to see that she isn't as popular as you'd like her to be. She's not hated, per se, but reception has been nonetheless mixed, and there are common points of criticism. I at the very least provided a thought process and reasoning towards both my criticism and my suggestions; by contrast "I like X just the way it is, therefore nobody else gets to criticize X or ask for it to change" isn't really a valid argument, nor one that really respects plurality of opinion.

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

~snip~

I'm not gonna do this with you man. You seem to be ignoring much of the feedback by many players, that she's an awesome and fun warframe. Go back and read through the feeback man. Stationary lazers aren't great btw... vauban already had that. It's more fun for many, to control the lazer yourself. 

Anyway i'm not gonna do this back & forth with you. I already told you my answer: It would feel like taking away from her gameplay. It's also not something considerate to be asking/expecting from the devs.

Edit, To be more specific of why it would feel like taking away from her gameplay: I wouldn't want to go through a portal, everytime I want to get buffs. Sometimes players will want to just stay in the same place, instead of having to go back and forth. A & B portals would also mean that there is less coverage for buffs, than reservoirs have. It would mean that you'd need to place them both next to each other, on a defense mission (or expect players to travel back through it, if they want to stay in the area they were) and it would be visually disorienting.  Buffs right now are awesome; they're like a homing beacon that you can just get close to, to refresh the timer. They also look cool. And no they're not plants; the're spirit creatures from another dimension (it's in the power description)

Edited by Maka.Bones

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1 minute ago, Maka.Bones said:

I'm not gonna do this with you man. You seem to be ignoring much of the feedback by many players, that she's an awesome and fun warframe. Go back and read through the feeback man. Stationary lazers aren't great btw... vauban already had that. It's more fun for many, to control the lazer yourself. 

Anyway i'm not gonna do this back & forth with you. I already told you my answer: It would feel like taking away from her gameplay. It's also not something considerate to be asking/expecting from the devs.

... ignoring which feedback? I am responding to you with full acknowledgement that many people do in fact enjoy Wisp, I'm just pointing out that many more people are also criticizing her, including people who like here. It is you who are ignoring this feedback and stonewalling literally all criticism of her, which in itself is toxic to discussion and goes directly against the purpose of this very thread. Also, when exactly did Vauban ever fire a giant nuke laser with infinite range? It feels like you pulled some random example with only the vaguest similarity just to shoot down an entirely different idea, while yet again ignoring the fact that I advocated to let Wisp control the laser if she wants to.

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4 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

... ignoring which feedback? I am responding to you with full acknowledgement that many people do in fact enjoy Wisp, I'm just pointing out that many more people are also criticizing her, including people who like here. It is you who are ignoring this feedback and stonewalling literally all criticism of her, which in itself is toxic to discussion and goes directly against the purpose of this very thread. Also, when exactly did Vauban ever fire a giant nuke laser with infinite range? It feels like you pulled some random example with only the vaguest similarity just to shoot down an entirely different idea, while yet again ignoring the fact that I advocated to let Wisp control the laser if she wants to.

Alright man, i'm out. 

 Many of the other players who enjoy her, are too busy having fun with her instead of harassing the forums. Please take a break from the forums, just enjoy the game man. Come back when your head is a little more cool. 

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20 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

Alright man, i'm out. 

 Many of the other players who enjoy her, are too busy having fun with her instead of harassing the forums. Please take a break from the forums, just enjoy the game man. Come back when your head is a little more cool. 

... do you even know which thread you're posting in? I'll give you a little hint: it's the Wisp feedback thread. The place where DE has officially invited people to give feedback on Wisp. Which means that not only is this the exact space for people to take time off enjoying the game to give criticism of the warframe, but that DE are themselves explicitly asking for this criticism so that they may act upon it. Me giving criticism of Wisp is therefore appropriate; you throwing a tantrum simply because people are giving critical feedback on Wisp on the Wisp feedback thread is not. It is hypocritical of you to accuse me of harassment when you have gone out of your own lane to harass me for daring to suggest Wisp isn't perfect, whereas I have done nothing but respect your own opinion of Wisp. It is equally hypocritical to tell me to "take a break from the forums" when you have made the express decision to go on here to sabotage productive discussion, just as it is hypocritical to accuse me of getting too emotional when you literally cannot stop yourself from posting, even as you repeatedly claim to be leaving this exchange. If you are to continue posting here, you need to accept that not everyone will have the same opinions as you, and that they are allowed to express their criticism, just as you are allowed to express your appreciation. Harassing people for giving feedback on a feedback thread DE themselves opened is unproductive and disrespectful in the extreme: if you truly cannot engage in discussion without attempting to silence others for expressing a contrary opinion, then perhaps a discussion forum may not be the place for you.

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dunno when this thread turned into "Teridax68 vs others" trial...

 

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Maka.Bones said:

From other player's perspectives, it would feel more like it's just taking away from her gameplay. Yes you're allowed to have your preferences, but DE has already spent plenty of time & money (which are limited resources btw) on creating the wisp we currently have. So drastic changes seem kinda unwarranted. Also, just because Reb said "she's a portal-themed frame" doesn't mean she meant like the game "portal"...  Her theme is abstract & incorporeal, just like a wisp is; her theme already follows her just fine. 

Hence why i've said that it would be an awesome idea on a new warframe.  Your ideas are great, but your thought process & reasoning doesn't really justify spending more resources on a warframe that's already loved my many & popular as she is. Especially not when there is already a long list of things that DE is currently working on, and needs to fix/rework/improve on. 

Nothing he suggested in that Wisp rework takes anyway anything from her though.

I still get all the buffs from Reservoirs with the added benefit on teleporting great distances.

I get blind + amplify damage of sparks with Breach Surge with the added benefit of teleporting the enemies to my face or just snapping them out of existence for a short bit if there's a pesky Nox or something that I don't wanna deal with at the moment

I get to leave my Sol Gate on the ground as a chokepoint blocker/killer or pick it up and use it like it currently does.

So... actually where is the loss in  @Teridax68's idea?

 

My own previous suggestion was just a gimmicky slapping on some Glaxion Vandalish / Amprexish (between reservoirs) beam behaviors on to her Sol Gate but after I see¬†his ideas, I think they are much better¬†and turn Wisp into a full portal frame who is capable of teleporting allies and foes around, and the sun itself (or the energy of it anyway)¬†to the battlefield. Only people that should be upset are probably... Nova Mains ūüėõ

Edited by Xepthrichros
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Xepthrichros said:

Nothing he suggested in that Wisp rework takes anyway anything from her though.

I still get all the buffs from Reservoirs with the added benefit on teleporting great distances.

I get blind + amplify damage of sparks with Breach Surge with the added benefit of teleporting the enemies to my face or just snapping them out of existence for a short bit if there's a pesky Nox or something that I don't wanna deal with at the moment

I get to leave my Sol Gate on the ground as a chokepoint blocker/killer or pick it up and use it like it currently does.

So... actually where is the loss in  @Teridax68's idea?

 

My own previous suggestion was just a gimmicky slapping on some Glaxion Vandalish / Amprexish (between reservoirs) beam behaviors on to her Sol Gate but after I see¬†his ideas, I think they are much better¬†and turn Wisp into a full portal frame who is capable of teleporting allies and foes around, and the sun itself (or the energy of it anyway)¬†to the battlefield. Only people that should be upset are probably... Nova Mains ūüėõ

1) She's already a versatile powerhouse. When  you ask for more, DE also removes something; the banhammer would have to come back sooner or later, and it's just going to slash her effectiveness if you give her too much. Portals alone aren't enough to make her fun and enjoyable. Sometimes more is less. 

 

2) It sounded like he was saying that we have to teleport through, to get the buff (i was talking with him on PM, and he said that you don't have to teleport through.... but i'm not sure how it's supposed to be a portal, and how you're supposed to touch it, without teleporting through?... I'm thinking nova here) If players had to go through the portal to get the buff:

  • It would force them on another side of the map, or you'd have to place points A & B next to each other
  • It would take up less versatility for spreading the maps (essentially reducing 6 reservoirs, to 3)
  • It would cause visual disorientation, everytime you wanted a buff.¬†

 

Still, I like her summoning small wisps to orbit around her. I'd love the idea of using the little reservoirs like portals, if they also kept their wisp/spirit-flower look, and still orbited around players/wisp, but they also let players teleport from one reservoir, to another one. 

Though I'd still prefer as it is, partially because if you get the full force of the buffs, while also making portals for other players, she's definitely going to be much stronger than most other support warframes, which would call for a nerf... (i'm kinda scared of too much buffing her, for that reason)

 

Edited by Maka.Bones

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Posted (edited)

Tbh, I also like that wisp doesn't have an obvious full devoted theme, like ember/frost do. That's part of why i think it would remove from her current theme. I like that she's not "basic" or plain like that. It seems more beautiful and mysterious when it's not just "everything is portals"  (And I don't even see how wisps--the creatures--are solely or exclusively related to portals)

 

would you like some more bacon, with your bacon? Nah you get some potatoes, and eggs, and toast, and pancakes!

Salad with your salad? Nah you get some crushed nuts, some dressing, some dried fruit, or fresh fruit slices, and sliced avocado, with grilled meat!

Chocolate with your chocolate? (ok don't answer the one about chocolate... not a good example LOL) 

Vanilla ice cream,  with your vanilla ice cream? Nah you get some cookie crumbs, chocolate fudge, nuts, sprinkles (unless you like it plain, which I do, but I still use a waffle cone)

 

A main course entree tastes best, with different flavors and textures that also compliment the main theme. Art also works like this with shapes, colors, and effects. Wisp has this with her theme, and her kit. Making it *ALL* about only portals, would remove the contrast and diversity. 

 Diversity that compliments each other, is what makes many things so beautiful. If everything was the same color, it would just be boring and sad.

Edited by Maka.Bones
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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

... do you even know which thread you're posting in? I'll give you a little hint: it's the Wisp feedback thread.

 

10 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

Harassing people for giving feedback on a feedback thread DE themselves opened is unproductive and disrespectful in the extreme: if you truly cannot engage in discussion without attempting to silence others for expressing a contrary opinion, then perhaps a discussion forum may not be the place for you.

Yeah, it's wisp feedback. Not discussion, or harrasment of other players. Not attacking or insulting other players. Not dissecting what other players say (which I'll admit, i'm doing now so it's hypocritical of me to be saying this atm) 

This doesn't help the devs, or provide any feedback for wisp, so please let's stop. Please back off, and stop bullying other players or dissecting everything they say. Let's just focus on talking about wisp, or just agree to disagree and stop bothering each other. 

Edited by Maka.Bones

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32 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

It sounded like he was saying that we have to teleport through, to get the buff (i was talking with him on PM, and he said that you don't have to teleport through.... but i'm not sure how it's supposed to be a portal, and how you're supposed to touch it, without teleporting through?... I'm thinking nova here) If players had to go through the portal to get the buff:

  • It would force them on another side of the map, or you'd have to place points A & B next to each other
  • It would take up less versatility for spreading the maps (essentially reducing 6 reservoirs, to 3)
  • It would cause visual disorientation, everytime you wanted a buff.¬†

 

Still, I like her summoning small wisps to orbit around her. I'd love the idea of using the little reservoirs like portals, if they also kept their wisp/spirit-flower look, and still orbited around players/wisp, but they also let players teleport from one reservoir, to another one. 

Though I'd still prefer as it is, partially because if you get the full force of the buffs, while also making portals for other players, she's definitely going to be much stronger than most other support warframes, which would call for a nerf... (i'm kinda scared of too much buffing her, for that reason)

 

I think his suggestion about the¬†portals, when not being used as portals, will retain their reservoir function. They just have an AOE wherein if you walk into it, you get the buff similar to what reservoir current does. Then to trigger the actual teleport, you need to walk into the actual portal (or they can have a "press X to interact" for extra user-friendliness).¬†The mote flower ghost things are cute (especially their glyph representation)¬†ūüėõ¬† Visually, I'd imagine it to look like the current reservoir with that floral thing, but atop the floral vase, you have a void portal similar to those things you see on Lua, or just make it look like one of Dr Strange's Sling Ring Portals...

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3 minutes ago, Xepthrichros said:

I think his suggestion about the¬†portals, when not being used as portals, will retain their reservoir function. They just have an AOE wherein if you walk into it, you get the buff similar to what reservoir current does. Then to trigger the actual teleport, you need to walk into the actual portal (or they can have a "press X to interact" for extra user-friendliness).¬†The mote flower ghost things are cute (especially their glyph representation)¬†ūüėõ¬† Visually, I'd imagine it to look like the current reservoir with that floral thing, but atop the floral vase, you have a void portal similar to those things you see on Lua, or just make it look like one of Dr Strange's Sling Ring Portals...

Yeah that would keep their unique aesthetic. That does sound cool, but how would that be balanced? An augment?

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1 minute ago, Maka.Bones said:

Yeah that would keep their unique aesthetic. That does sound cool, but how would that be balanced? An augment?

Augment sounds fine. And it will probably be one of the better augments to be released, as opposed to... some of those we have for other warframes. 

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Maka.Bones said:

Yeah, it's wisp feedback. Not discussion, or harrasment of other players. Not attacking or insulting other players. Not dissecting what other players say (which I'll admit, i'm doing now so it's hypocritical of me to be saying this atm) 

You should perhaps be taking your own advice, as even you're starting to realize the inherent hypocrisy in what you're saying here. I did not ask anything of you in this thread when you decided to start attacking me, insult my person, and harass me while clogging up this thread with not a double, but a triple post. This thread is not about you, nor is it about me, it is about Wisp: we are allowed to disagree with each other, which means you don't get to bash me over the head just because I want Wisp to change and you don't.

Quote

This doesn't help the devs, or provide any feedback for wisp, so please let's stop. Please back off, and stop bullying other players or dissecting everything they say. Let's just focus on talking about wisp, or just agree to disagree and stop bothering each other. 

I agree: please stop. Instead of posting literally three times in a row about how much you dislike me and everything I say, go do something else. You are the one bullying others here by specifically seeking people to attack, and continuing to attack them while hypocritically pretending to want to improve discussion, and you are the one dissecting what they say by using the slightest turns of phrase in their posts to put words in their mouths (in this instance, by assuming that I wanted to force people to teleport to access Wisp's 1 buffs in my suggestions, something I had never said or implied). Nothing you have said or done on this thread has been beneficial to discussion on Wisp, nor have you given any actionable feedback for DE to work with.

7 hours ago, Xepthrichros said:

I think his suggestion about the¬†portals, when not being used as portals, will retain their reservoir function. They just have an AOE wherein if you walk into it, you get the buff similar to what reservoir current does. Then to trigger the actual teleport, you need to walk into the actual portal (or they can have a "press X to interact" for extra user-friendliness).¬†The mote flower ghost things are cute (especially their glyph representation)¬†ūüėõ¬† Visually, I'd imagine it to look like the current reservoir with that floral thing, but atop the floral vase, you have a void portal similar to those things you see on Lua, or just make it look like one of Dr Strange's Sling Ring Portals...

This is pretty much what I was trying to convey, yep. My explicit intention with my proposals was to take Wisp's current kit, and add new effects on top that would add to gameplay, which means players should still be able to do what they do now, while having more options at hand. Regarding the portals, I was actually thinking they should work more like portals in Portal than Nova's Wormhole, in the sense that you'd just be "joining" two different locations in space and just be able to casually walk back and forth through, though considering how I have no idea if DE's tech can accommodate that, a Wormhole-like portal could work fine as well, and outright passing through shouldn't be necessary to gain the buffs.

8 hours ago, Maka.Bones said:

1) She's already a versatile powerhouse. When  you ask for more, DE also removes something; the banhammer would have to come back sooner or later, and it's just going to slash her effectiveness if you give her too much. Portals alone aren't enough to make her fun and enjoyable. Sometimes more is less. 

If fear of nerfs is your concern, why not address that concern towards DE so that they don't nerf frames unnecessarily, instead of trying to bully other players into silence when they propose buffs? Also, how exactly do you know that "portals alone aren't enough to make her fun and enjoyable"? Have you played my kit? Because the concept of portals themselves is so rich with gameplay that it spawned not one, but two games centered around the mechanic, to say nothing of the many subsequent games that included portals in their gameplay as well. Who else to let play with portals but the game's designated portal frame?

Edited by Teridax68
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So for some clarity here:

This thread is a place for you to provide feedback and have discussion about Wisp and her powers, looks, etc. That is something that we encourage, positive or negative, but it needs to be constructive.

Being constructive does not cover insulting other players, acting in a way that violates the forum rules, or generally being uncivil. If you want to have a discussion, then have a discussion, but do it in a way that treats other players with respect. This goes for everyone.

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