(The Jovian Concord: Update 25) Wisp Feedback

[-TheBloodyQueen-]

I think wisp can see Reserves going through walls and her third skill can teleport to Reserves when looking through walls.

The purpose of this change is to make it possible to change the gameplay so that the wisp can move quickly to the destination. If you leave the 3rd skill of the wisp now it is no different from Loki's teleportation (Sorry my bad English , I used google translate)

[DeVieEtMort]

Having 1 pods down at the same time sounds like a possible augment for Wisp.

[EinheriarJudith]

30 minutes ago, AhLiu338 said:

I fail to see how is this different from what my suggestion is? Especially when you said "allow replacement based on which one you pass through."  I'm not suggesting having highest strength being the universal value in the session. I'm saying that If you have 150% strength mote on you and you pick up 200% strength mote, you'll now have 200% strength mote. If you don't walk in and pick up the stronger mote you'll maintain the weaker mote. 

buff overrides in this game make it so the strongest one always stays up even if you use a weaker one (see rhino's Roar as an example). having to avoid stronger motes is just an unnecessary hassle when the buffs could just be replaced by passing through the aura. we arent saying the same thing but we do agree there should be a buff replacement.

i also think there is a problem with having the same frame in groups. there is no need for a group to have 2 trinity, 2 harrow, 2 nidus, 2 or more <insert other examples>

[XxChaosManxX]

Overall I really enjoyed the WISP but the ability 4 (SOL GATE) is not very ultil in relation to the others and I will tell you a bit about it.

SOL GATE:
Is very cool and beautiful but the effect is very exaggerated, when the ability is used the area around it gets darker and you only see a strong light in the middle, it is difficult to know if I am looking at someone, I am waiting to see some damage (I put all black colors looked good for me).

Despite having great damage is a unique target ability, I do not see many situations where I would choose to use her instead of my weapon, I think she should cross all the enemy up front to the range of the ability.
 

[-TheBloodyQueen-]

I think wisp can see Reserves going through walls and her third skill can teleport to Reserves when looking through walls.

The purpose of this change is to make it possible to change the gameplay so that the wisp can move quickly to the destination. If you leave the 3rd skill of the wisp now it is no different from Loki's teleportation (Sorry my bad English , I used google translate)

[TKDancer]

10 hours ago, Kurokoz said:

The DPS is pretty nasty with the boost from the 3 reservoirs

its not, my not fully optimized synoid gammacor is much stronger and gives me energy at the cost of ammo, even at 200% str, 2k dmg x4 per SECOND is bad dmg in this game, even with the +50% from red and blue motes and armor stripping from green mote, since it doesnt behave as a beam so theres very few ticks for status/armor stripping and it has awful crit chance

 

all that for a TON of energy, dmg does go up as the ability hurts enemies, but so does its already very high energy cost, same for holding fire button

7 hours ago, Yousho said:

I just watched AGGP use it to wipe a group of level 165 corrupted bombards off the face of the earth. It's probably fine.

bombards have alloy armor, sol gate does rad dmg, theres the reason, it sucks against ferrite armor, big time

and he could have easily done it better with any good weapon, tho i dont have it, i wouldnt be surprised if wisp's signature gun is stronger than sol gate

 

sol gate, as it is, is just a poor man's peacemaker, and i mean *poor*

Edited May 24, 2019 by TKDancer

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

36 minutes ago, TKDancer said:

its not, my not fully optimized synoid gammacor is much stronger and gives me energy at the cost of ammo, even at 200% str, 2k dmg x4 per SECOND is bad dmg in this game, even with the +50% from red and blue motes and armor stripping from green mote, since it doesnt behave as a beam so theres very few ticks for status/armor stripping and it has awful crit chance

 

all that for a TON of energy, dmg does go up as the ability hurts enemies, but so does its already very high energy cost, same for holding fire button

Weapons are stat sticks and have always out performed most damage based abilities for quite some time now.  Not really a good comparison.  That being said the flaw I see with sol gate is that it has the "hold to do more damage" function.

36 minutes ago, TKDancer said:

bombards have alloy armor, sol gate does rad dmg, theres the reason, it sucks against ferrite armor, big time

and he could have easily done it better with any good weapon, tho i dont have it, i wouldnt be surprised if wisp's signature gun is stronger than sol gate

 

sol gate, as it is, is just a poor man's peacemaker, and i mean *poor*

Having the green buffs lets you do corrosive procs with sol gate.  So it might be "worse" against ferrite armor but you can more than make up for that with her kit's synergies and holding the damage button.

[VVXRFRXME]

SOL GATE:

-increase tick rates, lower dmg/energy cost on duration

-make it work like opticor small aoe at the end of the beam or leave a trail of flame like the napalm mod of penta

 

BREACH SURGE:

Fix the blind duration not affected by any mod in game (44sec UI = 7sec ingame)

Make the chance of release a surge variable with power strength, atm only beam weapon make it viable or things like zenistar disk

[Maka.Bones]

8 hours ago, atejas said:

In 90% of the game, I think a range-capped teleport that could go through level geometry would be better.

Unless you play in open world, 90% of the time. 

 

I do agree that it would be wonderful if it didn't require direct LoS, but limitless range is also wonderful. Please don't diss that. I don't see why we can't have both.

Unless you mean "limited range when teleporting through walls/objects, but unlimited range in OW or with a direct LoS. That would make sense, and would keep us OW players happy

🙂

Edited May 24, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[Maka.Bones]

It would be awesome if we could teleport to other wisps' reservoirs. It would give us a huge tactical advantage in complex maps

Edited May 24, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[Maka.Bones]

Also, the issue players are having with reservoirs overriding/not overriding each other, would be solved having wisp warframes prioritize their own reservoirs for buffs (and also giving them an option to get overwritten by stronger ones )

Edited May 24, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[Maka.Bones]

On 2019-05-23 at 7:24 AM, Ham_Grenabe said:

There's nothing all that Wispy about her, but it happens to work out. A better name would be Vaubloki Embra. 

I definitely gotta disagree. Maybe your understanding if wisps' aren't anything like what she is, but it doesn't mean she isn't like one. 

[Ham_Grenabe]

1 minute ago, Maka.Bones said:

I definitely gotta disagree. Maybe your understanding if wisps' aren't anything like what she is, but it doesn't mean she isn't like one. 

Fair enough, you're free to disagree. I think her abilities are all over the map conceptually (I mean, there was a period where she was a ghost-like frame; then she was all about portals; now she's a "light-based" frame or something). But at least they work well together. 

Edited May 24, 2019 by Ham_Grenabe

[Maka.Bones]

6 minutes ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

Fair enough, you're free to disagree. I think her abilities are all over the map conceptually, but at least they work well together. 

I mean... energy manipulation/manifestation, portals, and quantum entanglement, would literally be all over the map lol. So it's conceptually accurate 

Edit: life is the fluctuation and manipulation of energy, in the form of a self-sustaining orchestra... Wisps are basically beings of concentrated energy/life, so it makes sense to me

 

Thanks for the quick reply btw. That was cool 👍

Edited May 24, 2019 by Maka.Bones

[Ham_Grenabe]

2 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

I mean... energy manipulation/manifestation, portals, and quantum entanglement, would literally be all over the map lol. So it's conceptually accurate

 

Thanks for the quick reply btw. That was cool 👍

NP. I really enjoy playing Wisp, I just don't necessarily feel a strong single idea about her (as opposed to say...Frost, or Volt, or whatever). 

(tbh, those may be bad examples because they're simple elemental themes, though)

Edited May 24, 2019 by Ham_Grenabe

[Maka.Bones]

1 minute ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

NP. I really enjoy playing Wisp, I just don't necessarily feel a strong single idea about her (as opposed to say...Frost, or Volt, or whatever). 

Check out my edit 

[Ham_Grenabe]

Just now, Maka.Bones said:

Check out my edit 

Ah, I see where you're coming from. That makes sense.

[Lycangel]

Hey folks. I was a touch bored and figured I would toss out some ideas for changes to wisps abilities. This is just supposed to be light hearted suggestions and not meant to be mean to the developers or anything. I don't imagine coming up with these frames is easy by any stretch. Gotta make sure its balanced as well as fun and that's no easy task. Feel free to give your inputs on the ideas or heck, your own suggestions. Maybe some devs will like an idea.

 

Ability 1 Reservoirs: I really wasn't terribly fond of cycling through the abilities and dropping one for each. It feels kind of clunk and slow. I think it would be ok to just completely remove the shock mote, and just combine vitality and haste. Call it "Bursting with Life" buff lol. That way you can just quickly drop the the two with a single button press. This could help with more mobile missions. Quickly drop it at the start of the mission and let everyone grab their buff and go! Also since its a bit more powerful now, reduce the number of motes available from 6 ---> 4 this keeps it plenty viable and fun for interception where wisp really shines but also keep them viable for other things.

 

Ability 2 Will-o-wisp: I really am just not sure how I would utilize this ability unfortunately. One of the big problems is while I'm casting it, I'm standing still. That's a solid second or two of non mobility which can get you killed. Plus again, I'm really just not sure how/where I would utilize this. This is more of a re-work idea. Instead of teleporting you, have a ghostly/whispy version of yourself fly out and roam around. They would charm enemies into shooting them. Enemies that shoot at the wisp give a small heal to nearby allies. Amount returned and health of the wisp would be based on ability strength, how long it can fly about is based on duration, range is how far its charm radius is, and obviously efficiency effects its cost.

 

Ability 3 Breach Surge: Honestly, this one isn't too bad as is. But I would buff the damage a bit. I saw my enemies getting hit for like.... 18-22 damage a proc. Its almost negligible. I'm not really fond of its synergy with reservoirs. There aren't too many situations I can think of where I would want to teleport to a reservoir. I might just scrap that part altogether. Instead, casting it a reservoir maybe increases the range and effectiveness of the reservoir themselves for a time? Heh, a buff for a buff.

 

Ability 4 Sol Gate: So I like that wisp has at least one higher damage ability. However I'm not sure fond of this ability. If I have to aim the small beam at enemies, I might just be better off using my amprex! It does high damage, has status procs, and will hit nearby enemies for a good chunk of damage! That thing is devastating. If  I had to pick between one or the other, I'll take the amprex. Here's my suggestion though, have it work with the reservoirs! When activated, the range of the reservoirs is doubled, and they act like turrets. They blast their own sol gates at nearby enemies.

 

I like their passive. Invisible in the air. Different, fun, and useful. I already jump when I'm panicked and trying to escape enemies so its already totally natural for me lol.

 

Anyways, feel free to give your feedback, thoughts, criticisms <--- be gentle.

Edited May 24, 2019 by Lycangel

[Midas]

Honestly damage ults should scale with enemy level. Revenant can two/one shot enthralled level 9999. Making his entire kit but his 4 useful... new frames that do pure damaging ults should be up to date with future content. Those sentients are going to laugh at your sol gate when new war drops. Why would I run wisp over something that scales like octavia/Revenant? Or even a Nidus with condition overload balls?

Edited May 24, 2019 by Midas

[Eyn_Sof]

Looks like breach surge doesnt count the killing shot (tested with fulmin in shotgun mod so it may be a bug or maybe a feature).
Also no crouch animation?

Edited May 24, 2019 by Eyn_Sof
forgot to include another piece.

[peterc3]

Blanket buff to the entire kit with no trade offs suggested.

Why use any frame but the most tanky with an Amprex if that is your bar?

[Lycangel]

11 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Blanket buff to the entire kit with no trade offs suggested.

Why use any frame but the most tanky with an Amprex if that is your bar?

Hey its fine if you don't agree with the above ideas. I don't expect everyone to which is why I left it open to feedback, thoughts, and criticisms. You only bothered with the criticism part though. If you think the ideas are OP with no tradeoff, suggest some tradeoffs. Make alterations of your own. That's what helps make the ideas more valid is another mindset to help bring balance and new ideas. You haven't really given anything to improve the thread right now and you can do better than that.

[peterc3]

2 minutes ago, Lycangel said:

You haven't really given anything to improve the thread right now and you can do better than that.

You set your bar for a damage ability being the Amprex. There is nothing DE could change to satisfy that requirement, short every damage ability outclassing every single AoE weapon, resulting in the opposite problem of why use X weapon when Wisp's 4/other damage ability completely outclassed it in a game where Energy is less and less of a problem to generate. Your criticism is flawed. I was just giving feedback. You are free to ignore it.

[Lycangel]

1 minute ago, peterc3 said:

You set your bar for a damage ability being the Amprex. There is nothing DE could change to satisfy that requirement, short every damage ability outclassing every single AoE weapon, resulting in the opposite problem of why use X weapon when Wisp's 4/other damage ability completely outclassed it in a game where Energy is less and less of a problem to generate. Your criticism is flawed. I was just giving feedback. You are free to ignore it.

Thats a fair enough point. And I think my reasoning was poorly worded. It wasn't so much the damage I am concerned with. My issue with ability 4 is that I don't think it offers any more utility than your general gun. You can get a similar effect by using a variety of guns, like an amprex or Arca Plasmor. I would like to see the 4 ability have utility to it that you could not find otherwise.

[Lone_Dude]

I've already left a comment here, but it wasn't too heavy in terms of feedback. I'll go in-depth on weakpoints of Wisp, but it doesn't mean that this frame is bad, it just means that I really want little negatives to get some attention from devs.

Impressions

Wisp is a solid frame. Starting from Khora all NEW frames that you have released felt rather underwhelming. Some got better after tweaking, some weren't bad to begin with, but still felt mediocre at best. They all lacked something. None of them were terrible, mind you, but Wisp is the first frame in over a YEAR that you got right on release and I love it.

Wisp is not "supa action meta 0.1 seconds to 51231231724 dead grineer on the map"-frame like Saryn. But she can deal with high level threats by using her abilities alone in a reasonable amount of time and look cool while doing it. 

She's not as tanky as Inaros. But it doesn't mean that she can't take damage - she can, but it requires some input from the player. She has everything a frame would need to survive: shock and rad procs, health boost and health regen(not Garuda or even Oberon tier though), invisibility(no energy required), agro pull and even invul state on demand.

Her synergies are not as underwhelming as those of Hildryn. They work great and actually motivate you to play in a specific way. However some of them might feel very clunky depending on your circumstances.

Visual and sound qualities are subjective matters. I personally find Wisp to be almost perfect when it comes to these matters. Aside from her rather impressive assets, she looks elegant and almost all of her animations are top tier. Animations and sounds of her abilities are amazing as well, they are not irritating and greatly improve the experience.

Overall, great job. Frame is almost perfect. I would lie if I said that it's 10/10 for me right now, but it's pretty damn close.

 

Abilities and synergies

Phased - works great when you have to withdraw from combat and just for getting around without drawing attention. An amazing passive.

1.Reservoirs - looks bad at first, works great, has some minor issues.

• The good
  • At first they look bad. Tiny range, 3 switches + 3 casts to have all benefits. But they have a good enough buff duration to not keep you locked in one spot and don't completely stop you on cast - glad to see you've learned something from Garuda.
  • Provides additional health and health regen.
  • Provides additional movement speed, as well as attack speed for your firearms and melee, allowing you to ditch certain mods if you feel like experimenting.
  • Provides light CC and +60% damage for your melee if you use Condition Overload, thanks to electricity procs.
  • Synergy with Sol Gate is great as it doesn't feel too artificial since you pretty much always keep buffs from Reservoirs. Corrosive procs are a great addition and a very elegant solution design-wise.
  • Being able to place 6 of them is a nice change of pace since usually such tactical measures are just stacked on top of each other. Reminds me of poor Vauban though.
• The bad
  • Synergy with Breach Surge is extremely clunky to use. I'm not going to mention that usually you only get a chance to use it if you're fighting enemies in an enclosed area. I understand that this is how it's intended to work, as a defensive measure that allows you to increase it's range via Surge bolts. However, currently it's extremely hard to use because of how difficult it is to cast Surge on Pods. Increasing the teleport "hitbox" might lead to players accidentally using it, I understand, but currently I have to stop everything I'm doing in order to make use of that synergy, which is rather disappointing. Some tuning needed.
  • NULIFIERS ATE MY DEMON FRUIT. Every time I see a Nulifier I hope he didn't touch my babies. I have to hide Reservoirs from them and while it provides a certain level of strategy, it's rather annoying at the same time because while everyone just kills everything I have to run around and hide my Reservoirs in dusty corners and on top of geometry objects in hopes that Nuli won't walk nearby. It doesn't affect me personally as much, but it makes it harder for my teammates to get their buffs. It doesn't help it that visual "energy ring" from Reservoirs can sink in the floor or go invisible for some reason, making them even harder to spot.

2.Wil-O-Wisp - a great ability that you'll probably use for wrong reasons.

• The good
  • Provides invisibility and CC.
  • Provides invulnerability on demand.
  • Synergy with Breach Surge that allows you to use it at range.
  • Can be used during Sol Gate casting. Looking at you, Hildryn.
• The bad
  • Mobility that it provides is mediocre at best imo. You have to hold the ability button to speed it up. Now, in case of Nezha, that mechanic works great, because it separates 2 completely different ways to use the same ability. In case of Wisp it just feels weird and useless. I move at pretty much the same speed as the spectral copy when it's boosted. I move faster if it's not. I'm talking about movement speed because there is no other reason to boost the specter. You might like it if you're thinking with portals, but I never had a need to use it in such a way.
• The ugly
  • Distraction and cloak have 4 seconds of duration. Invulnerability has 3 seconds of duration. See what I'm getting at? Why would I use the cloak part if I can just TANK the damage?
  • Unlike buffs from Reservoirs it doesn't make much sense in terms of teamplay either. My copy can certainly provide some distraction, or I can become invincible and kill everything, becoming a distraction on my own in the process. Or I can use Breach Surge. If we're talking about using the spectral copy to draw attention away from the objective or synergise it with Surge, the speed of the copy, again, reduces it's potential. You would probably place a Reservoir near the objective, so using Surge on that would not only bring you closer to a fight, it would also be instantaneous. I'm not saying that this ability is bad though. It's just that 2 thirds of it are clearly better than the 1 third that is supposed to be the main part of the ability.
  • It's currently very easy to get phase through walls/stairs when using this ability.

3.Breach Surge - simple and very effective.

• The good
  • Wisps own Radial Blind - great CC and great damage buff for your melee.
  • Blinded enemies are NOT triggering finishers when you strike them. Some might consider it to be a downside. But I personally hate it when instead of performing a quick attack that would kill 3 enemies, my frame performs a time consuming finisher that overkills a single unit.
  • Provides additional CC(radiation procs) and damage through Surge sparks that scale with your damage and seek targets.
  • Has great synergies as described above.
• The bad
  • THE ANCIENT CURSE OF LINE OF SIGHT!
  • Radiation damage falls off pretty hard on certain infested units and high level armored enemies.

4.Sol Gate - a powerful ability in need of tiny tweaks.

• The good
  • You praise the sun with lethal consequences for your enemies. I haven't experienced anything cooler than that in Warframe before.
  • Deals A LOT of damage, surprisingly.
  • Procs radiation and heat, double CC.
  • Has a synergy with Reservoirs that grants it increased damage and allows it to proc Corrosive, making it more effective against armored targets.
  • Allows use of Wil-O-Wisp.
  • Doesn't reduce movement speed unless channeled. Removes the ability to jump, but it's a fair trade off imo.
• The bad
  • Heat and Radiation damage fall off big time against high level armored enemies. Corrosive synergy is in place to negate that, however, it faces another problem - low "fire rate". Damage ticks of Sol Gate are strong, but slow. Less ticks = less corrosive procs = less armor strip = less damage done. And not only does it work worse in terms of numbers, it also feels less satisfying to use because of that. You're literally WAITING for your ability to deal damage while shooting a giant sunbeam - 1 second passed - tick of damage, another second passed - another tick of damage. I'm being overly dramatic of course, but you probably understand what I'm getting at if you know how beam weapons work. Best solution for that issue would be to increase the tick rate of the beam while reducing damage accordingly, on paper DPS will stay the same, in reality it will greatly increase DPS against heavily armored high level targets and make it more satisfying to use the ability by smoothing the distribution of damage and removing these awkward "no damage" moments.
  • Giant sun-beam, as cool as it is, greatly reduces overall visibility. If it's an intended trade-off - cool, keep it that way, justplsdontnerfanything but if it's not, maybe do something about camera placement? Place it a little bit higher or maybe zoom out some more.

 

Nitpicks and ideas

1.Rolls to the sides look clunky. Forward and backward rolls look fluid and elegant, meanwhile rolls to the left and right feel like they get cut off and share same animations with forward rolls.
2.Chest and shoulder armor pieces are oversized. It feels as if no one bothered to check their size so now they look weird.
3.Shoulder emblems are clipping through shoulders themselves.
4.Sol Gate doesn't deal damage to Ramparts.
5.Would be nice if Shock Reservoir added magnetic proc or some magnetic damage.

 

Conclusion

I think Wisp is an amazing frame. While she's not extremely meta and is not as easy to use as tank frames, she doesn't feel weak or poorly designed, her synergies don't feel forced or too weak. Her passive is very useful, yet not overpowered. Little problems that this frame has almost don't matter, as they don't really affect it's actual performance. However, if they're dealt with, this frame will be truly perfect in every way possible. I'm truly grateful to whoever worked on Wisp and I hope that you'll polish it a tiny bit more, just so it feels even better for everyone. It's been a long time since I felt legit happy and excited to use a brand new frame, you did a good job.

Edited May 24, 2019 by Lone_Dude