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[DE]Danielle

(The Jovian Concord: Update 25) Wisp Feedback

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3 hours ago, Buzlok said:

-snip-

Better nerf every nuke frame then yeh?
theyre stationary buffs. it's fine.

 not to mention mate, but everything is over powered at sortie and below content cause the games easy in general

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Have you ever heard of Banshee?

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4 hours ago, seprent said:

yes 

no

No. This is the first frame to be released In awhile I'm actually looking forward to.

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I get where you're coming from, but...

4 hours ago, Buzlok said:

Basically with a single cast of a 3 option ability a Wisp can make her team ever harder to kill than Oberon's entire modded loadout can for way less maintenance.

This is an exaggeration. Renewal is 33% stronger the Health Mote, has a wider activation range and, while it doesn't boost base Health, it does synergize with 2 to grant a flat Armor buff for a similar eHP boost. Oberon also buffs animal companions, extneds bleedout timers, confuses enemies on mass, debuffs enemy damage, weakens enemy Armor and CCs in a large range.

4 hours ago, Buzlok said:

Haste Mote: This mote gives 20% movement speed and 30% fire rate and melee speed.

30% isn't a big deal.

4 hours ago, Buzlok said:

A single frame shouldn't be able to keep up and even outdo multiple other frames in their respective specialties with only a single ability. I think Wisp is an amazing jack of all trades frame and is extremely fun, but it's unfair that she makes other characters irrelevant at their best traits. 

She really doesn't outclass any other supports though. Maybe in providing a speed boost, and as a flighty frame that's cool to have as a specialty. Her CC is below the support average, and she doesn't return Energy. She's certainly is low-effort for a nice effect, but I don't see her as pushing out other supports (after the "new frame wave" wears off anyway) to the point where we need to be demanding nerfs. Let's maybe just give her a few weeks and see how things fare. 

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4 hours ago, CodeUltimate said:

plz don't you are killing the only good skill for her

+1

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

She isn't that good, it depends how everyone use her.  Lets say laser beam the enemies and holding still isn't the powerful suit for her combat, she meant to roll around or dodging still and if the enemies use sniper who is lvl 80 she would be down for the count for this is depending the build is.

All her abilities is pretty fine but the one thing getting confused how proper use her 3 which its tricky and weirdly to be used in matter the fact.  For she is like limbo mix with volt.

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For a moment I thought Wisp was

Vauban rework

 

Also...if other supports aren't as good...buff the other supports... 

Why must everything be nerfed down instead of raised up?

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2 minutes ago, AshenHaze said:

For a moment I thought Wisp was

Vauban rework

 

Also...if other supports aren't as good...buff the other supports... 

Why must everything be nerfed down instead of raised up?

Inb4 someone says "POWER CREEP"

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Her 1st power seems to me to be the most powerful/useful of her kit. I have nothing to suggest for it, it's a really cool power, i'm just surprised it's a 1st and not 2d or even 3d ability.

Her second is fun, but the aggro seems weak/inexistant in many situations. The synergy of ubiquity with her 3d is a great idea, and teleportation is ok, but really shines while using her 4. This ability feels fine to me, I would've placed it as a 1st ability though.

Her 3d ability feels really lame to me: LoS required, short range, and very low probability of damaging particles. It's dimensional stuff: why doesn't it bypass obstacles? Why the sparks aren't guaranteed? Nova can nuke a room with her 2. Also, too much randomness. My suggestions:
- bypasses obstacles
- a bit more range (not much), maybe at the expense of a little bit of duration?
- guaranteed sparks
- if we aim a target while we cast this ability, the sparks will prioritize this target rather than selecting one randomly.
- I feel like it could have synergy with the ulti: when casting the 3d when Sol Gate is open, it would send a wave of sparks rotating around the ray, increasing its thickness-radius for a short time. Maybe it could force an explosion at the end, and close the Sol Gate with it?

 

Sol Gate... Pretty epic. But our eyes are burnt by its power x_x 🙂 If you want to keep this amazing effect (that is still stylish), I had this idea: maybe make it so that if we aim while Sol Gate is active, it would activate an alternative vision (Wisp looking through the Gate, like a Lens), without any bright color nor the ray, like watching through a darkening magnifying glass. This system would allow players to enjoy both the flashy stylish destruction, and being able to aim correcly without eye-carbonization when needed/wanted.
This fashionframe/QoL considerations aside, Sol Gate suffers greatly in endgame. Not that it's total crap in itself, but it's a perfect victim of the broken scaling system of the stats of the enemies that you don't want to address >_<.
Suggestions:
1) It's the freaking SUN! You could include scaling % damage to health in it (except for bosses of course)!! Let's imagine that Wisp would be able to kill any enemy from any level in 5s, or 2.5s with a charged ray (it's an example duration, maybe for a build with a bit of strenght): it's not overpowered considering her ray cannot deal with  crowds, and 90% of the squadmates can kill entire rooms with their stuff. Even Inaros or Ivara would probably do better with daggers! And the enemies would still be very dangerous for her, even if she'd had the real Power of the Sun.
2) Or the ability should have a better crowd control potential to be useful to the team and to manage the hordes:

  • either the ray emits a mini solar eruption (forming a wave in front of her) each X second that force-ignites enemies in the frontal area and multiply damage of the ray depending on their proximity of the origin of the eruption...
  • or let's say that each 3s (example duration), the AoE of the ray widen (not the ray itself, for our eyes sake!), until it covers a large cone in front of her (similar to Garuda's ulti?), able to damage and proc in multiple directions.

 

Overall, it's fun to play with Wisp. Her 1 is her most powerful/interesting ability, gameplay and team-wise. Her 3 is the ability that needs the more attention imo. Sol gate is ok, but must be reviewed with endgame in mind, when common damage becomes useless and that we need to deal with crowds of deadly enemies.

Her animations are really great, and the sounds of her abilities: just... perfect.

That's all for me, thanks for reading!

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1 hour ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

No. This is the first frame to be released In awhile I'm actually looking forward to.

my yes was to his question of may we start a chain my no was my addition to the chain 

tbh im perfectly fine with wisp just wish she didnt blind me with that sun of hers when i fry and enemy abit too close to me ik its a sun but id the ability to see were im aiming the fecking thing 

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OP, what about you leave my new AnimuWaifu frame alone!?

There is nothing OP about the skills at all. If anything, Wisp is undertuned except for low level content.

The only thing OP about her is the particle effect spam.

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3 hours ago, --DSP--Jetstream said:

oh so thats why my screen suddenly has weird dark look suddenly..

For me that dimming is caused by Wisp's 1st and 4th on the Grineer Galleon tileset because of Adaptive Exposure. The game is too bright without AE for me tho.

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Alrighty then. Well I was pretty vocal about being against Wisps move set since introduction. I spent a good amount of time writing as to why I didn't like the preview. I went about and farmed her the regular way, then rushed her so we could be on the same page. Visually? Striking. Again, from the concept stage she was great. Everything else is..... well confirmed for me. I'll break it down as concise as I can because I went into lengths before:

 

Sol Gate

I'm not going to bury the lead on this one. I'm not even sure how internal testing put the okay on this. It doesn't do enough damage at all. Full buffed, with power strength and the mote buffs, its a waste of time. Especially since two of her other abilities are buffing her weapons. After about level 50-60 it deals 0 damage ticks against armored units. 0. I never liked it being tacked onto something called Wisp. She has no business using a sun laser. Sound file is a Ghostly scream. Like a Banshee. What happened?

Edit: Woah, okay looks like there is in fact a way to get this to do damage. A few enterprising Tenno found a way to game the number of times it hits the same enemy by quickly moving the beam on and off the enemy. I can confirm this works to increase the damage rate exponentially. Since the ability says it increases the longer it affects the same enemy, I feel this is counter-intuitive. So the best way to use this ability is to swing it wildly around so it goes off and onto the same target as fast as possible. This is.... Shaky lol at best.

 

Motes

Still the wrong decision for the game at this point. It was a hard sell at some of the least competitive times in the Warframe roster. Now, I can plainly see why these abilities are not used in missions very often. I compared these at one point to World of Warcraft's old Shaman totems. With Classic WoW coming in the near future, this is slapping me in the face with nostalgia like a 10 ton Ropalolyst. So it took Blizzard about 3-4 years give or take to figure out this was a pointless mechanic. Totems are going to be universally wanted, as in, there will never be a point where a Wisp does not want all 3 present. I kinda see the idea of letting her have a few out to teleport to. Make them, at worst, one totem with all 3 buffs you can place multiple places. Even then... These are terrible. All 3. The healing one, not only being her most useful totem but also virtually the only ability that the team wants at any given point in time, I don't think justifies the whole set up. Also, come on, didn't we learn from Volt's 2? INB4 incoming.

 

Will-o-Wisp

Again, on so many levels disappointing. Whats good? The point and click teleport kind of seems functional for something once I get the hang of it, kinda like my Nova's Wormhole. I can see it being a spectacular teleport when used properly. The bad? Everything else. The decoy is just as dysfunctional as I had worried. Definitely a few tiers below Loki's "Decoy" and Saryn's "Molt", and those are the lowest level decoys in the number Limbo. It is impractical to use for your team's benefit because it flies ahead fast enough that you may have a second, two tops, of a breather. I could build duration for this one aspect of this one ability, but at a base duration of 4 seconds, I'd have to vastly lower my range in order to have 8 seconds of decoy time. The invulnerability is like a heartbeat when I'm playing higher levels. 2-2....2-2....2-2...2-2... it really sucks. Plus, that 2 seconds is plenty to heal me to full from my mote, but as others have pointed out, Quick Thinking only goes so far, and also costs energy.

 

Breach Surge

Alrighty, well it seemed like a real winner when you combined Radial Blind, Null Star, and Molecular prime into one ability, but I gotta hand it to it, unless they are actually stunned for the base of 16 seconds, or it triggers an Earth shattering kaboom, I feel like it's effects are largely being lost. Like, there's no way this is taking the damage from an attack, multiplying it by two, and smacking a nearby enemy in the face with it. Or if it is, it's not counting it as Wisps damage if the attack is caused by an ally. I kind of accepted this as Nova after being 99% on the damage charts since her release, but this is sadly her only useful nuke. As in it actually shows damage numbers when it hits enemies as opposed to her 4. Now to be fair, built range and using your Moteport for double, it hit's around 50m of range. Or it would, if it wasn't LoS. Since it's LoS it loses out to a lot of nuke abilities that aren't punished for having a relatively useless blind built in. 

 

Now for her general play? Yeah, anything that is not an objective based mission like Defense, Excavation, or Deception, I have a hard time understanding how to tolerate her. Like the Classic WoW Shaman I have to drop all 3 of my totems to work at maximum capability. Any mission, even survival, that asks you to move makes this more frustrating than any other Warframe. Period. Okay sure, half the reason to have a speed buff is to run through a mission in 30 seconds flat, but it takes way too long to set it up every minute or less. The enemy disruption buff is fantastic for doing what your 3 already does but for free, and whenever it wants. Like, you can't use it if you are being sneaky. I get not opening up a portal to the sun while trying to spy in Pluto but like legit nope, can't use one of your buffs at all. They were pretty annoying anyway to set up. Now that we have established she has 3 balls on ethereal chains in regular missions, lets look at the others. So decoy is great for spy after you have already killed the enemies and use it to teleport through lasers, because it can do that. Besides that I haven't used something that was as big of a mistake in spy since I left Dark Blight on my Rakta Dark Dagger. So to clarify her stealth ability causes alarms, she is the first, as even Ash's doesn't alert them when they get caught in the smoke. Outside of that, yeah, you are as well off as anyone else trying to stealth around. Her passive all of a sudden reminds me that everyone is pretty unnoticed in midair, and doesn't last long enough once you hit the ground. 

So cute? Youbetcha. I just don't know who/when/why stomped out the Ghost/Stealth theme from the design. As aforementioned she has sound files of a more ghostly nature. This means that beyond the name, beyond the aesthetics, she was made to be a ghost. It seems a lot of last minute effort was made to remove that reference intentionally, and painstakingly. Were there also different abilities or were they just altered in appearance (besides her 3 I guess)? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Wisp the only fun support frame in the game. And there is nothing to nerf, if anything, her 4 should be buffed as it was advertised as a portal to the freaking sun. But it's so weak.

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1 hour ago, seprent said:

my yes was to his question of may we start a chain my no was my addition to the chain 

tbh im perfectly fine with wisp just wish she didnt blind me with that sun of hers when i fry and enemy abit too close to me ik its a sun but id the ability to see were im aiming the fecking thing 

I got that part. I just meant no on regard to OP.

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Wisp is probably the best support now for low and mid level defense and interception missions. She also has a hidden use in that you can help your buddies level and forma their frames with her health booster.

I've played her for a bit now and honestly her #1 power is the only thing of value she has. Her teleport is sort of fun to play with, but doesn't have any practical purpose. Her 3 is sort of okay at low level. Her 4 is fun as all get out and a power trip until you realize that your half leveled secondary does more damage.

She doesn't fit her ghost theme and is honestly pretty weak overall. I actually think her kit is kind of fun but it's also random and not useful at all in the majority of game modes.

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Oberon gives armor and also has no major downside to building raw strength in addition since his 3 is just one ability it is much more capable of abusing pax charge and energy conversion. With my build Oberon gives 659 armor at 130 health per. That much armor adds up to about 84% damage resistance that unlike wisp willl also scale into abilities like warding Halo, snowglobe, or mass vitrify. Also the pheonix renewal augment which literally stops death is a staple in long arbitration runs.

Trinity is just press 4 and everyone's at full health and with a decent build 75% DR which is equivelant to multiplying everyones health by 4. This can be spammed and uses affinity range. Also gives energy

 

Harrow heals every time he hits, and has higher fire rate multiplier than wisp while also buffing reload, can give invincibility or augment that to give permenant garunteed red crits which can break many weapons to a point where it's downright hilarious. Again also gives energy.

Gara can multiply everyone's EHP by 10 with minimal strength, and also has infinite scaling damage

I fail to see how wisp overpowers these frames. Gaining 1,000 health looks flashy and cool but if you actually do the math all 3 of her motes are pretty much on par with what other support frames can do. Wisp isn't any more powerful than other support and buff frames, perhaps you're getting confused since gaining a big amount of health looks flashier and more in your face than a little icon in the corner with an armor or damage resist value, but if you do the math the individual motes are much weaker in comparison and this is only made up for by the ability to stack all 3

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If that count as overpowered then let hit oberon for his 100+ health/s healing with 500+ armor and instant revive every 90 sec. Need to be changed to 25 health/s max 50 armor and only comeback with 1 hitpoint with a 5min cooldown globaly so if 1 player use it its cooldown for everyone.

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8 hours ago, Buzlok said:

The new warframe Wisp is an incredibly well made frame that is also extremely well rounded, but her numbers on her first ability are too good. Primarily I am talking about her motes.

Vitality Mote: On the surface a 300hp 30hps buff is good but not overpowered, but in reality it is insane. The reasons behind this are pretty straightforward. There is no downside to building pure strength on Wisp. The Blind Rage+Rage combo on her alone can make you feel like you are using a fully modded frame. Walking into a Reservoir instantly refreshes her motes making duration unneeded and efficiency minimal. Basically with a single cast of a 3 option ability a Wisp can make her team ever harder to kill than Oberon's entire modded loadout can for way less maintenance.

Suggested change: 300hp and 30hps lowered to 250hp and 25hps.

Haste Mote: This mote gives 20% movement speed and 30% fire rate and melee speed. The problem with this is pretty similar to the problem with the vitality mote. Since there isn't a single reason stopping you from maxing strength the value of the attack buff makes her start to even out with frames like harrow that also have a fire rate buffs, but the buff applies to Wisps entire team instead of just herself. On the other hand the movement speed buff can't match Volt's in strength so it isn't as insane.

Suggested change: 30% attack rate buff lowered to 20%.

Shock: This mote is only effected by ability range and no strength so it is probably the only balanced one.

Overall the numbers on her Vitality and Haste Motes should be toned down a bit is what I'm getting at. A single frame shouldn't be able to keep up and even outdo multiple other frames in their respective specialties with only a single ability. I think Wisp is an amazing jack of all trades frame and is extremely fun, but it's unfair that she makes other characters irrelevant at their best traits. 

This is normal for almost EVERY frame ever developed.  Sometimes it’s coding errors, but...

DE would rather give a slightly-to-very-OP  Frame to excite the fan base and then dial the frame back vs a DOA frame at launch that doesn’t move the meter (see 1.0 Atlas).

Anyway, time was my Volt could”4” Overload-nuke nearly a whole tileset and stack shields and score 7 million damage per bullet when firing an Mk-1 Braton through them.

More recently you had things like self-harm Super-Trin and multiplicative One-Shot-one-kill Chroma.

If you had an old Miasma-Saryn in your squad, you could go make a Sandwich and binge Netflix while leveling gear...

Am I throwing a bit of hyperbole for effect?  A little...but,

Don’t worry.  If Wisp is as OP as you say...she will be changed.

 

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Hello all, 

Loving Wisp so far, I've read peoples feedbacks and tbh i'm not really finding any issues. Her 4th ability is a little overwhelming but she's channeling the sun so I kinda think it should be blinding when it's unleashed, it's showing the power of it?

One thing i have found though, the 'fizzing' particles animation when she jumps and floats invisible has disappeared? Has this been taken out of the game or has mine just bugged somehow??

Otherwise i'm really enjoying using her and finding some great uses for all abilities so far to Crowd Control and buff team, really like her!

Only gripe would be the floating animations need finishing so they span across melee, aiming, pistols etc etc, it looks really silly when she goes from floating to running on 'stumps'.

 

Cheers!

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5 minutes ago, Abadonae said:

Only gripe would be the floating animations need finishing so they span across melee, aiming, pistols etc etc, it looks really silly when she goes from floating to running on 'stumps'.

They can't reasonably do this for every melee etc. animation in the game, but an easy solution would be to have her perform the normal animations while floating a few inches off the ground.

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Just now, atejas said:

They can't reasonably do this for every melee etc. animation in the game, but an easy solution would be to have her perform the normal animations while floating a few inches off the ground.

Yea that's a fair point. At least they could for all the rifles/Pistols. That's my feels anyway.

Any idea about the fizzing particles?

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I don't get the mentality here, you play Wisp a while, she is well balanced and her abilities are great, and you think to yourself, this WF is OP, I need to go on to the forums and tell DE she needs a nerf.  I would understand if you said she is awesome, lets try and bring other less good WF's up to this level, but to ask for a flat nerf makes me sad.....

I think this might be a troll post by the OP.

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