(The Jovian Concord: Update 25) “Disruption” Game Mode Feedback

[Arniox]

23 minutes ago, Cortanis said:

I'll note this one for everyone. They're not entirely immune. They're effected by nova's cloud and can be slowed significantly. This helps a lot and I suspect that they're only effected by movement slowing effects.

This seems to be highly inconsistent and with how many nullifiers there are + the fact that the amalgams themselves also can instantly nullify every ability when close to them (which you need to be to kill them) + the fact that at high levels, the amount of CC and damage in a room even when your trying to slow them will melt a relatively squishy nova. We've tested nova for long duration runs and she melts almost instantly even with her 1st and adaptation at higher levels and because the room is so full of very fast running nullifiers + the very fast amalgams it means nova isn't too useful after a while.

[Test-995]

My only problem for this gamemode is demolysts.

1. they are extremely tanky, almost as tanky as synovia or worse.

2.Sound range is too small, i can't decide which direction to go unless they are close enough to conduit, and if i go search them, they gonna came close and wreck conduit.

3.Nullifier bubble is extremely annoying, i know i can dodge it but it's pretty hard depends on tileset, and if i get caught by it, results death of conduit for most of times.(only when i'm using buff, or exalted weapons, but i don't think we can defeat him reliably without any abilities/buff/cc/meta weapons, they are fast and tanky)

4.Perhaps it is rather unintuitive, lot of people trying to defend conduit instead of searching demolysts.

[AridoCor]

So, in an effort to not double, triple, or quadruple up on the points that people have already brought up, I'd like to just focus on two: A suggested change, and a suggested removal.

The Change: One thing that a lot of people seem to be bringing up (that isn't related to the game mode's drop table) is the amount of dead air; periods of time where no one has a key, and there are no amalgams to kill to acquire said key. On many occasions, killing amalgams may drop copies of the same type of key. (I've found it isn't uncommon to end up with 2 triangle keys, or square keys, or diamond keys, for example; results may vary for others) Problem is, those extra keys disappear at the start of a new round, which of course, leads to that "dead air" between rounds, where everyone is just waiting for a new amalgam to kill. So, my suggestion here is, to put it simply, to not get rid of all the spare keys between waves. Now, I'm not saying that every spare key that spawns needs to persist until it's used, obviously. (visual clutter IS a real issue that SHOULD be avoided) Maybe just a roll to determine which key remains, so that, at the very least, we have SOMETHING to work with at the start of a new round.

The Removal: Now, it's my understanding that this game mode was originally meant to be an endless variant of Mobile Defense, (if I'm wrong, feel free to correct me) which is great; Mobile Defense is my favorite game mode, so you'll get no complaints from me. However, seeing as how Demolysts are a thing, and how success/failure is determined by whether or not the Demolyst reaches the terminal, I find the timer on each terminal to be... let's say, redundant? I think I can comfortably say that the timer means absolutely nothing in this game mode, as killing the Demolyst leads to an immediate success, and allowing the Demolyst to reach the terminal, obviously, leads to failure. I know, compared to some of the points that others have brought up, this one is INCREDIBLY minor, but I figure I would address it anyway. The timers, in their current state, serve no purpose, and should probably be removed. (unless y'all can find a way to make them relevant, that is)

But, that's really all I got. Overall, Disruption is fun and I like it, so props there.

[[DE]Whirrrrr]

Many thanks again to everyone taking the time to post feedback here. Here's a summary of Disruption changes and bug fixes so far:

Hotfix 25.0.1

• Fixed the Disruption ‘Energy Drain’ modification applying to the Operator's Energy which prohibited ability to Transfer back.

Hotfix 25.0.2 and 25.0.2.1

• Doubled the amount of Hexenon reward drop from Disruption.
• Removed the Disruption 'Conduit Shields' buff as it doesn't do anything to protect the conduits after the design change which added Demolysts.
• Disruption Conduit Nullifier bubbles now grow over 6 seconds when they spawn, instead of immediately spawning in at full size when the Conduit is activated.
• Fixes towards not receiving Disruption rewards after a Host migration. 
• Fixed individual extraction not being available for the first 3 Disruption Operation: Hostile Mergers missions.
• Fixed see unlocalized text/wrong node name when looking at "online status" or receiving game invitation from friends who are playing the Disruption Operation: Hostile Mergers missions that you haven't unlocked yet.

Hotfix 25.0.3

• Increased Amalgam spawn rate! This will be more noticeable the more players you have in the squad.
• Disruption Marker UI visibility changes:
  • Increased Conduit and key marker color lightness to make them more visible (in-world, minimap and objective UI)
  • Increased the in-world display range of key pickup markers
  • Lowered the minimum radius of Conduit markers and increased their attachment height
• Demolysts no longer spawn at the same point for each Conduit, instead they will spawn randomly within a set range from the Conduit.
• Reduced the force applied to pickups spawned by the Conduit Resupply buff and raised their spawn height further above the Conduit.
• Made a micro-optimization to the Disruption game mode.
• Fixes towards Nullifier effects from Demolysts lingering permanently for Clients in Disruption.
• Fixed a progression stopping issue where the Disruption Conduits would not spawn if you killed a Demolyst at the exact last second of their combustion. 
• Fixed numerous Host migration fixes for Disruption Conduits:
  • Fixed references to Demolysts being lost (fixes Health bar UI issue)
  • Fixed Demolysts not attacking the Conduits
  • Fixed Demolysts not exploding next to Conduits
• Fixed Demolysts not appearing in the Codex.

[Snippo95]

Nice! The direction that you are taking in terms of hotfix is great. But there are still lot of things to fix, many of them have already been mentioned by all of us in the above comments. First of all the rewards are still too low for a mode that is meant to be the new end game. Second, the Demolyst still have a silence that makes lot of warframe useless.

If you manage to rework completly the reward table from that mission and fix those "wrong" mechanics, that will be the go to in warframe.

Thank you Whirrrr for the time that you are spending reading this thread.

[selimsrm]

I'm seeing a spawn issue since every public group has at least one player wanting to leave as soon as the extraction is open. (side rant: not sure why you don't play solo if it's to only clear the node and not get any resources or rewards)

When any players moves to early extraction they seem to get swarmed by nearly all the spawns, including the key carriers. Just finished a game where the guy ran out of revives on the extraction platform and had to help a guy yesterday clear the extract zone so he could leave. Those of us staying couldn't do much until we found all the keys near the exit area.

[Kingsmount]

2 hours ago, [DE]Whirrrrr said:

Many thanks again to everyone taking the time to post feedback here. Here's a summary of Disruption changes and bug fixes so far:

Hotfix 25.0.1

• Fixed the Disruption ‘Energy Drain’ modification applying to the Operator's Energy which prohibited ability to Transfer back.

Hotfix 25.0.2 and 25.0.2

 

 

How about removing it entirely. 

 It's completely unfun.  Nullifiers, and Parasitic Eximi all but force everyone to use meta frames with meta weapons and completely screw over any frame that relies on abilities,   invalidating core gameplay and entire frames making it hard to enjoy the game outside of Grineer only maps.   I find it hard to keep playing the game after no-lifing the game for 300 hours to the point where I feel more and more pushed towards content that requires you to put up with Nullifier and Parasitic BS in most missions (Corrupted, Corpus, Infested,  leaving only Grineer largely safe and enjoyable)   

I play a game like warframe for the unique abilities,  I don't give two cents about weapons or I'd be playing Call of Duty,  where at least more weapons feel viable (without expensive rivens).   

Last week for the first time since I sunk my teeth into the game,  I logged off and didn't log back in until yesterday to check if hopefully the new content can bring me back as my motivation to play is floundering.   Now I logged in again today and I haven't even joined a mission yet because I'm not feeling it,   almost entirely due to the inconsistency in how you get completely screwed over by all the anti-warframe BS which as I mentioned makes me feel like I have to use meta frames and meta weapons,  frames and weapons I don't even have or have the highly expensive (Endo and credit,  or physically lacking the mods) mods for. 

 

I can't remember ever seeing any (otherwise) good game that likes to invalidate core gameplay so much, other than Warframe.  

Edited May 25, 2019 by Kingsmount

[Evanescent]

Very fun gamemode, nice enemy variety and pressure. The demolyst mechanic made me kind of nostalgic for 2013 xini, where in the late waves it became a contest of keeping the toxi ancient from reaching the pod and blowing it up!

My main two concerns are about the demolysts and rewards:

>Demolysts are not adequately "made known"-they just show up. An assassination marker that shows up like objective markers would be nice, from farther away. Give us time to spot and start facing it instead of showing up near the console.

>Rewards so far seem to be relics and hexenon. More interesting things please! Glad to see no ammo drums or magazine warps however. When you've got the primes that you want and built stuff using hexenon it will become worthless to run for you!

 

[silvaril]

Heya

 

Playing as Loki, found that Switch Teleporting the Demolyst worked as a way to give more time to destroy them.

However, while Switch Teleporting the Demolyst after it started its self-destruction routine next to the Console did work, the explosion still destroyed the Console from its new location.

I find that inconsistent with the desire of the Demolyst to be near the console before starting its self-destruction routine.  I feel that this should more likely reset the Demolyst to approaching the console again, leading to re-starting the self-destruction routine as it enters demolition distance from the console once more.

 

Tether grenades also do not seem to work against Demolysts.  Is this an intended immunity?

 

[AdunSaveMe]

Demolysts destroy conduits way too fast. When you consider that they're hard to see (because of other enemies, and general visual clutter making the waypoint difficult to notice), resistant to damage and CC, and don't stand out in terms of volume, *and* seem to come out of nowhere sometimes, it feels really bad to have them delete a conduit as soon as they get to it even if you kill them before they actually explode. 

[TheFalseEclipse]

The reward for doing this mission isnt good for long run, especially when enemy got a weird "buff" that render most of weapon useless (ex:full hp heal) and limiting frame choice (bye again vauban,nyx and more). Also the sound indicator isnt a good thing for new player, especially when the tileset sometime isnt "open" (limited space). The pickup radius for key is also small when you destroy the amalgalm while below them.

[Chewarette]

I'm glad this mission type only represents one node and will probably be as forgotten as Defection or Infested Salvage in two weeks. The Demolysts, which are the main concept of these missions, sucks and remove all kind of fun from this game.

- Nullifying abilities ? Okay, that just deletes 95% of Warframes, let's just pick any meatbag tanky frame. I tried a few Warframes but 1°) Control Warframes suck because of NULLIFYING BUBBLES EVERYWHERE and 2°) Buffs Warframes suck because of NULLIFYING BUBBLES EVERYWHERE, which means I'll probably have to push the score by playing Inaros, as everyone else, which is the perfect definition of "unfun".

- Absurd HP and Armor scaling ? Wasn't there a terrifying failure which looked like that during Nightwave 1, to the point it had to be nerfed into oblivion in a few hotfixes to prevent people to just leave the mission as soon as it appeared ?

- Sound indicator to locate them. Good idea on paper. Then add Alad V constantly talking for 15 seconds when the Demolyst is supposed to spawn, which prevents you to hear a damn thing.

Not related to Demolysts: why the freak is the tilesets for this mission so small ? There are like two rooms in each tileset, making the whole thing completely boring after the second round. Tilesets seem way smaller than "pre-rework" ones.

Basically, what went through your heads when you thought that slapping random Nullifier abilities on top of Wolf's absurd HP/Armor scaling + Status immunity was a great idea ? I can't imagine any circumstance where that'd be a praised design.

Edited May 25, 2019 by Chewarette

[Guest]

Fun game mode, frantic, something for everyone to do. Endless is not fun for t3h hex grind, but the rewards are not bad.

Feedback

• For those poor souls not yet breaching MR15 and a useful riven or three, the starting level for endless should be more in line with Jupiter's normal level, really.
• Compared to Excavations, which usually traverse three or four areas, the levels generated are quite small, with certain combinations making for some interesting demolyst "appearances" - almost out of thin air sometimes.
• Losing all 4 conduits in a round ends the mission as a failure, forfeiting all previous rewards and pickups - was A bit of a kick in the nuts to find out on wave 13. I'd elected to stop, and proceeded for to the exit grid. The other players didn't, and put the last 2 keys in. As I was stood on the exit grid waiting to leave ... "mission failed". A four round checkpoint for at least pickups would be nice.
• When keys are dropped, the white text change isn't really updating me that a key is "somewhere". I check that panel often, but still miss when keys are dropped - sometimes even off a mob in front of me. It only flashes them on the map when you are within 20m or so? Range extension or some other visual cue would be good.
• When spotted (not player WP), demolysts have almost identical markers to the red terminal. With the current WPs, their direction can mislead. Would text flag the demolyst (as per manually WP'ing an enemy) and would like to see a change to the red terminal colour to something else.
• Early exit for non-host takes waaay too long. Because of the mission setup, you're being hammered by large numbers of spawns whilst on the exit grid, so I died 3/6 times (+2 from arcane revives, in case you were wondering) just trying to leave after wave 12. The exit grid needs to be less open, or prevent things spawning less than 60m away. Would say reduce timer to 20s for non-host.
• If the mission is to be truly "endless", and although there are a few frame options, demolysts >100 damage mitigation presents a problem, even with all 4 guns on them. Would say it needs some other way of slowing them down, panels you can break to trigger coolant leaks, something like that.
• Beyond 12 rounds, toxic eximus units turn all nearby moas into 1HK platforms. Not sure if EMP aura will help much - new moa weapon spread is far too tight. Honestly, I'd like to see toxic eximus units taken back out of all Corpus and Grineer eximus sets, but my suggestion would be to reduce scaling for their aura buff

[Madway7]

How about adding Domestik Drone bp to the rewards?

[SPplayer76]

I think the biggest success of this mode is that I don't feel like I'm staring at a timer, that alone makes this mode so much more enjoyable then every other endless mode. I agree with a lot of these posts saying that the prizes aren't really that exciting, I would love to see kuva, ayatan, or even transmute cores enter the drop table. Once I understood the whole Demolyst mechanic I immediately was like, "I should bring a lot of enemy radar so that I see the Demolyst faster." However, it doesn't help at all, it won't get marked any faster. I think that Enemy Radar should mark the demolyst from farther away. I also think something should be done to make it a bit more obvious which key you are carrying.

Overall I think this game mode is pretty fun, thanks for all your hard work DE!

[Jarriaga]

Here are my two cents:

I like the game mode overall, but I think the cyan node should be recolored to green or yellow to make it stand out more from the blue and white, which can get confusing due to changes in lighting.

 

Edited May 25, 2019 by Jarriaga

[Wyrmius_Prime]

Demolysts should be marked on the map immediately as soon as they spawn. Currently you're pretty much a leech without a pair of headphones. RIP any couch console players.

Keys should also be marked on map for everyone as soon as they drop. Disruption is currently the absolute worst endless mission in public teams, because 80% players do not even pick the keys up.

90% of all the weapons in this entire game cannot even tickle the Demolysts. Reduce their health, make CC work on them or just balance every single weapon in this game to viable. Meta weapons are way too mandatory in this mode IMO.

[Jarriaga]

1 hour ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

Demolysts should be marked on the map immediately as soon as they spawn. Currently you're pretty much a leech without a pair of headphones. RIP any couch console players.

Keys should also be marked on map for everyone as soon as they drop. Disruption is currently the absolute worst endless mission in public teams, because 80% players do not even pick the keys up.

90% of all the weapons in this entire game cannot even tickle the Demolysts. Reduce their health, make CC work on them or just balance every single weapon in this game to viable. Meta weapons are way too mandatory in this mode IMO.

I'm not having a problem finding them with sound and I play on my TV with a controller 6 feet away. 

That said, I do have a 5.1 sound system. 

[actuallyVile]

23 hours ago, [DE]Whirrrrr said:

Hotfix 25.0.2 and 25.0.2.1

• Doubled the amount of Hexenon reward drop from Disruption.

Hotfix 25.0.3

• Increased Amalgam spawn rate! This will be more noticeable the more players you have in the squad.

And now too many things drop, apparently.

Seen more people posting on the forums (in various sections) about this...might want to do something about that before you pointlessly ban part of your userbase...

Who would've thought I'd ever be complaining about too much loot...smh

[Buttaface]

Spent lots of time today shooting at Demolysts in the simulacrum. Was surprised to find that 10-15% of large hitscan scoped-in sniper weapon hits do not register any damage, don't even register 0 damage, and remove no shields or health from the target. This could be the case for all ranged weapons, I'm annoyed enough not to spend any more time finding out though. The effect is reminiscent of lag switch PVP cheaters in other games back in the day, and would have been obvious to anyone testing the new Demolyst mobs in any reasonable, cursory way... and that's why I'm annoyed.  Surely this is not working as intended.

Edited May 25, 2019 by Buttaface

[lljkmercurius]

I've just had a particularly frustrating experience trying to solo extract from Disruption after one of the other players quit mid round. The extraction area was constantly swarming with Vapos and Amalgam units, the extraction zone is extremely small (so it's easy to reset the timer by accident while trying to clear the NPCs) the solo extraction timer is 60 seconds and transferring to Operator from your Warframe resets it to 60, even if you're always on the platform.

Now, it's entirely possible that the Corpus units were bugged and shouldn't have been spawning there (since they were also dropping keys for terminals which were now 600+ units away from me) but I think 60 seconds is a bit unreasonable to wait on a small platform where you're being rushed by Nullifiers, shockwave Moas and are being shot at by a dozen Corpus ranged units from all over the map. Taking potshots with my amp to clear the more dangerous NPCs on the platform helped a little but the chip damage from being shot while out of void mode was enough that I'd get knocked back into my Warframe over time.

With my current focus upgrades I can only manage to sit in void mode for approximately 40 seconds and in the remaining 20 seconds of the extraction I was unable to clear the platform fast enough to avoid being downed since I was on Atlas and most of the time the platform was covered with a nullifier bubble. Void dashing at all was moving me enough that it reset the timer (which is annoying because the shockwave Moas can still hit you and knock you back in void mode) and I couldn't re-enter Operator mode because it reset the timer.

Can you please consider adjusting the solo extraction timer to 30 seconds for Disruption?

Edited May 26, 2019 by lljkmercurius

[GuiltBlade]

It's just excavation with shorter rounds and where there's only 1 enemy target you need to worry about. I do not expect the mode to last for more than a month.

Why did you even bother giving the Demos a warning sound for when they charge up when it only lasts a few seconds and they spawn right on top of the terminals?

The mode is so full of nullifier effects that the only frames I found worth playing were the ones who don't rely upon or need their abilities, so all the more boring frames to play.

Demolysts should not be able to Heal and get a full sheild recharge while already on top of their targets.

[KenthNisshoku]

please remove the key duplicates im seeing extra keys when playing this mode

and also is it possible to give this gamemode to other factions as well?

the rewards can be like a hefty amount of rare resources/kuva & vaulted void relics (when unvaulted).

[DigiScot]

Loving this new game mode, but have to reiterate the sentiments of most players, in that the loot tables are trash.

I had enough Hexenon to make everything (including the 2 statues my 2 man clan managed to get) in just 2 days and I think everyone has enough Neo relics to last them a life time of playing and their so common on most missions we play they are just complete and utter trash at this point.

I literally have no reason to play the mode other than the fun of it, extremely disappointed there are no Axi relics, getting so sick and tired of running the same 2 (4 if you want them slower) void missions or bounties to get them, it boggles the mind you haven't addressed this yet, this game mode would have been perfect, I'd even be happy if they appeared in an even higher tier beyond the 4 rounds!

Otherwise, it's a fun mission, I love the new nullifying melee's, it's definitely a fun new threat to keep my Gara on her toes and the bombers are a stroke of genius, no more just staring at a timer tick down, it's just a shame I have zero reason to play them already.

[V0LDY]

Please remove the nullifying effect from the demolyst.

1) It's just terrible from a gameplay standpoint: it forces the player to adopt the same "high damage weap + buffing frame" forced meta that is basically becoming a staple in every new fight. Most of the frames are so bad in this mode because it's impossible to play with toggleable abilities like Valkyr, Exalibur, etc. I don't want to be forced to play chroma + riven modded weapon for everything just because the game doens't ALLOW me to do otherwise.
 

2) The nullifying field from demolyst  causes bugs with melee channeling, I've experienced it every of the the last missions I've played in Disruption mode, channeling just gets "stuck" to be always ON  draining all your energy making melee impossible until you die, which is the only thing that can unstuck the player from that state.