Eklectus Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 1 minute ago, evilChair said: shows you haven't played Dishonored: DotO. Wally is more like Bernkastel from Umineko. I haven't, no. I'd rather not ruin my memories of the Daud storyline. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilChair Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 7 minutes ago, Loza03 said: THE LOTUS IS SOMEHOW IMMUNE TO THE VOID. It's confirmed now that her Lair being on Lua isn't an aspect of it being a vision or dream sequence - but that is actively where she was. In the void. Not to mention that she says 'Still the ancients recoil from its touch'... The ancients. Implying the elders, the old ones... not the next generation. This is either a plothole, or a hint that mimics in specific are so adaptible that they're actually able to sidestep void damage. So far my personal opinion is that the sentients aren't "burned" by the void because of defective engineering, but instead have their tissue hardwired to self-destruct in contact with the void as an inbuilt failsafe by the Orokin. Which opens up certain implications about the "catastrophic event" that knocked some Orokin towers out of the void and let them become infested nests (engines serving as void-cannons powered by void-mask power rerouting which ruptured the void mask) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentMobius Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 (edited) SPECULATION: Spoiler Natah points out that she knows about The Man in the Wall, and she has heard the voices. That's super interesting given that she is supposedly pure Sentient. And suddenly she is of the opinion that the solution for the Sentient Race is to combine with organic humanity to wipe away their vulnerabilities... Hence I'm of the opinion that "The Lotus" is Natah + (Some remnant of) Margulis, made by Ballas for his own reasons.and the Helmet Stabilizes the personality between Margulis and Natah, while also limiting and directing her. The removal of the Helmet let Natah take over but we'll be working to get Natah to realize that she isn't 100% sentient any more and eventually calm down, which will probably split the Sentient force. Because that way we can choose to associate with that faction or not without altering the main story. Edited May 23, 2019 by SilentMobius 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sekan Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 11 hours ago, Renegade343 said: Oh yes, very shiny and valuable loot if you spare her. Like... 500 whole endo! If you behave maybe even an ayatan sculpture! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabbynaru Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 I'm so freakin' glad they've actually turned her heel. I thought they would pull a cheap one and make her a good guy again. I don't want her to be a goo guy, I want to unload my Opticor in her face. So, THANK YOU SO MUCH DE! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilChair Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Eklectus said: I haven't, no. I'd rather not ruin my memories of the Daud storyline. believe me, it won't. dishonored 2 and doto are about daughters succeeding their dads, a kind of changing of the guard. and DotO honours daud more than his own DLC. Edited May 23, 2019 by evilChair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eklectus Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, SilentMobius said: SPECULATION: Hide contents Natah points out that she know about The Man in the Wall, and she has heard the voices. That super interesting given that she is supposedly pure Sentient. And suddenly she is of the opinion that the solution for the Sentient Race is to combine with organic humanity to wipe away their vulnerabilities. I'm of the opinion that "The Lotus" is Natah + (Some remnant of) Margulis, made by Ballas for his own reasons.and the Helmet Stabilizes the personality between Margulis and Natah, while also limiting and directing her. the removal of the Helmet let Natah take over but we'll be working to get Natah to realize that she isn't 100% sentient any more and eventually calm down, which will probably split the Sentient force. Because that way we can choose to associate with that faction or not without altering the main story. That'd make sense... if she didn't say she was changed at the same time as you awoke on Lua and didn't remove the helmet by herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilChair Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Eklectus said: That'd make sense... if she didn't say she was changed at the same time as you awoke on Lua and didn't remove the helmet by herself. She... didn't really change when the 10-0 woke on Lua. "This is who you are" - remember? As for the helmet, she only took it off once Togawanker fried its feed cables/circuits with a fingersnap. Ballas is the culprit in the helmet deal, not her, but this inconsistency precisely might point to brainwash on Mother's behalf. Natah's mind is accessible, and perhaps also easily malleable, as she's not an "ancient". She's pliable, and now that I think about it, it might be the reason why Hunhow wants to keep her away from the rest of the hivemind - so that she can be her own person, not an extension of an abusive parent who treats her kids like furniture and vending machines. Hunhow is possessive of Natah, but not in a brainwashy way. He's a papa wolf, no matter how much he may hate the 10-0, his adoptive grandkids. Edited May 23, 2019 by evilChair 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eklectus Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 38 minutes ago, evilChair said: She... didn't really change when the 10-0 woke on Lua. "This is who you are" - remember? As for the helmet, she only took it off once Togawanker fried its feed cables/circuits with a fingersnap. Ballas is the culprit in the helmet deal, not her, but this inconsistency precisely might point to brainwash on Mother's behalf. Natah's mind is accessible, and perhaps also easily malleable, as she's not an "ancient". She's pliable, and now that I think about it, it might be the reason why Hunhow wants to keep her away from the rest of the hivemind - so that she can be her own person, not an extension of an abusive parent who treats her kids like furniture and vending machines. Hunhow is possessive of Natah, but not in a brainwashy way. He's a papa wolf, no matter how much he may hate the 10-0, his adoptive grandkids. "But in truth, we were both imprisoned in Lua's belly..." "Have you forgotten Lua? You were saved. But I? I was changed." As for the cables, I don't think she needs them, considering she showed up in person right after the Second Dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loza03 Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 30 minutes ago, evilChair said: This is either a plothole, or a hint that mimics in specific are so adaptible that they're actually able to sidestep void damage. So far my personal opinion is that the sentients aren't "burned" by the void because of defective engineering, but instead have their tissue hardwired to self-destruct in contact with the void as an inbuilt failsafe by the Orokin. Which opens up certain implications about the "catastrophic event" that knocked some Orokin towers out of the void and let them become infested nests (engines serving as void-cannons powered by void-mask power rerouting which ruptured the void mask) Your interpretation is the canon interpretation, actually. In one of the synthesis imprints, we see the 'sales pitch' for Sentients, and 'the flaw' is pointed out as the feature preventing a rebellion, indicating it was intentionally built in. That having been said Natah explicitly calls out that she was 'changed' by Lua, or on Lua. Which indicates it's not something within her, but something external. Perhaps Wally again? 47 minutes ago, evilChair said: She... didn't really change when the 10-0 woke on Lua. "This is who you are" - remember? As for the helmet, she only took it off once Togawanker fried its feed cables/circuits with a fingersnap. Ballas is the culprit in the helmet deal, not her, but this inconsistency precisely might point to brainwash on Mother's behalf. Natah's mind is accessible, and perhaps also easily malleable, as she's not an "ancient". She's pliable, and now that I think about it, it might be the reason why Hunhow wants to keep her away from the rest of the hivemind - so that she can be her own person, not an extension of an abusive parent who treats her kids like furniture and vending machines. Hunhow is possessive of Natah, but not in a brainwashy way. He's a papa wolf, no matter how much he may hate the 10-0, his adoptive grandkids. Indeed. Personaly theory for New War involves Hunhow side change, either to help Save Natah… or avenge her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schkrapnel Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 We're gonna have to kill her, or at least try to in TNW. I'm guessing that she's become so powerful that we may not be able to kill her. Also, I speculate that we'll need Railjacks to fight The Mother / The Devourer and/or Natah, and Railjack and TNW will drop as the same update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eklectus Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, Schkrapnel said: We're gonna have to kill her, or at least try to in TNW. I'm guessing that she's become so powerful that we may not be able to kill her. Also, I speculate that we'll need Railjacks to fight The Mother / The Devourer and/or Natah, and Railjack and TNW will drop as the same update. Just throw a Thresher Maw at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilChair Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Loza03 said: That having been said Natah explicitly calls out that she was 'changed' by Lua, or on Lua. Which indicates it's not something within her, but something external. Perhaps Wally again? Indeed. Personaly theory for New War involves Hunhow side change, either to help Save Natah… or avenge her. My money is on the Orokin data-trees. They seem to have something to do with the void and also serve as data-conduits, both characteristics (alongside her mimicry) allowing her to adapt to the void more radically than any other sentient, by linking with a void-based system that's also potentially compatible with her, allowing her to build up an immunity to it. Not to mention that those trees seem to benefit from the infestation in the derelicts instead of being taken over by them. In fact, I'd not be surprised if the trees growing on Lua took their time in the void to coalesce into a giant, moon-sized brain, a forest that literally couldn't be seen for the trees. To save her. There's little dramatic value in vengeance and DE have shown themselves to be good enough writers so far to know that vengeance is a zero-stakes motivator. It doesn't give you any tactical advantage in something called the New War. Also, fridges, women, women in fridges, not a good idea, especially if they're main characters. So far Hunhow has been a wanker, but he's never been outright successful in villainy, which places him in a position where he is still a potential ally to the 10-0, which is something that you can't say about the dogs, the boxheads and the tumor army. Edited May 23, 2019 by evilChair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfitron Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 15 hours ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing69 said: Reveal hidden contents But when I saw your tender faces, I took mercy. God, I kinda wanna kill this chick for what she did to us in the Sacrifice, but... i miss her, my dudes. She's my mother, for the Void's sake! I could handle her being a sentient. I could handle her turning Ballas into an Amalgam. (or Chimera, whatever you wanna call him now) And while I want her to pay for her betrayal, I don't know if I can bring myself to hate her enough to kill her when the New War arrives. Where do you guys stand? It's a videogame, so naturally I'm going to choose the funnest/most hilarious option. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade343 Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 1 minute ago, Alfitron said: It's a videogame, so naturally I'm going to choose the funnest/most hilarious option. Shoot her in the face? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilChair Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 1 minute ago, Alfitron said: It's a videogame, so naturally I'm going to choose the funnest/most hilarious option. becoming an amalgam so that both you and the sentients can shove alad into a locker together? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade343 Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, evilChair said: becoming an amalgam so that both you and the sentients can shove alad into a locker together? Nah, since Alad likes to fuse himself with things (also fuse things with other things), we fuse him with every faction in the universe. And then end up having to fight him and wonder what went wrong. Edited May 23, 2019 by Renegade343 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loza03 Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 44 minutes ago, evilChair said: My money is on the Orokin data-trees. They seem to have something to do with the void and also serve as data-conduits, both characteristics (alongside her mimicry) allowing her to adapt to the void more radically than any other sentient, by linking with a void-based system that's also potentially compatible with her, allowing her to build up an immunity to it. Not to mention that those trees seem to benefit from the infestation in the derelicts instead of being taken over by them. In fact, I'd not be surprised if the trees growing on Lua took their time in the void to coalesce into a giant, moon-sized brain, a forest that literally couldn't be seen for the trees. That's possible. Lotus does have that weirdly 'Organic' look to her. 49 minutes ago, evilChair said: To save her. There's little dramatic value in vengeance and DE have shown themselves to be good enough writers so far to know that vengeance is a zero-stakes motivator. Also, fridges, women, women in fridges, not a good idea, especially if they're main characters. So far Hunhow has been a wanker, but he's never been outright successful in villainy, which places him in a position where he is still a potential ally to the 10-0, which is something that you can't say about the dogs, the boxheads and the tumor army. We're in agreement apparently. Personally I do agree saving is the more likely option, in part because it has a number of interesting character interactions. Plus, well... just imagine a scene where we're unable to get to the Lotus. Umbra is hanging back to stop Fighters in the rear, Ordis is screaming in horror and there's too many for even our void-juiced Tenno to beat. Cue a bombardment from off-screen followed by Hunhow's fighters swooping in from behind, taking them off guard. Then the guy himself glides into view, with a speech of defiance, proclaiming that he will save his daughter, even if he has to ally himself with his devil, us, to do so. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smilomaniac Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 DE has dragged this thing out for so long that I lost interest along the way. It's sort of a B-plot at this point. Then again, I never connected with the character in the first place, I sort of saw her as an obstacle to the Tenno and as a leash on any character development that we could ever get beyond being generic good guys. Additionally they've written themselves into a corner on this one. If we go save her and succeed, it'd be an unfulfilling and consequence free plot. If we go save her and fail, it'd be a predictable trope. If we go to kill her and fail, it'll be an even more drawn out story line. If we go to kill her and suceed, people are going to rage and feel unfulfilled. The second option is probably the best one, at least from my perspective. The whole thing is concluded, our characters are finally free to leave the nest (and inevitably cause a civil war) and DE is free to continue the universe in whatever way they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade343 Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, Smilomaniac said: The second option is probably the best one, at least from my perspective. The whole thing is concluded, our characters are finally free to leave the nest (and inevitably cause a civil war) and DE is free to continue the universe in whatever way they want. "Whoops, we accidentally spilled coffee from this coffee machine here onto this time machine." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatantfool Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 At this point killing her isn't going to be unlike shedding your training wheels. Before we were acting based on her intuition and her desire to protect us. Now we act based on our own intuition and fight for what we decide to, even if this brings danger our way. The bird has to leave the nest eventually. This is the kind of thing Teshin was on about - the Tenno can't be soft. They shouldn't be protected and squirreled away. We're the only viable means of resisting the Sentience. We have to be the ones to take responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(NSW)Sniperfox47 Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 4 hours ago, evilChair said: Hunhow is possessive of Natah, but not in a brainwashy way. He's a papa wolf, no matter how much he may hate the 10-0, his adoptive grandkids. I mean... Wasn't there a whole thing in the Second Dream where he tried to violently hack and mind control her... and in doing so ripped memories out of her in order to track us down? If that doesn't scream "creepy brainwashing stalker parent" I don't know what does. I am really hoping that it's just Momma mind controlling her and that her current persona is more of a shackle than the Lotus was, but I guess that's still to be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(NSW)Sniperfox47 Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 4 hours ago, evilChair said: Hunhow is possessive of Natah, but not in a brainwashy way. He's a papa wolf, no matter how much he may hate the 10-0, his adoptive grandkids. I mean... Wasn't there a whole thing in the Second Dream where he tried to violently hack and mind control her... and in doing so ripped memories out of her in order to track us down? If that doesn't scream "creepy brainwashing stalker parent" I don't know what does. I am really hoping that it's just Momma mind controlling her and that her current persona is more of a shackle than the Lotus was, but I guess that's still to be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loza03 Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 1 hour ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said: I mean... Wasn't there a whole thing in the Second Dream where he tried to violently hack and mind control her... and in doing so ripped memories out of her in order to track us down? If that doesn't scream "creepy brainwashing stalker parent" I don't know what does. I am really hoping that it's just Momma mind controlling her and that her current persona is more of a shackle than the Lotus was, but I guess that's still to be seen. No. The memories were the objective. And, actually, she instigated it. Sentients seem to be able to directly communicate mind-to-mind if they, a fragment of themselves or a proxy make physical contact. We took on the role of proxy to find a piece of Hunhow so she could look into his mind, and he anticipated it and used it to see into hers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)wintersfrozen Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 I'm gonna continue saying the same thing I have said back when the sacrifice dropped. Can't wait to kill her. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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