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I miss her... SO much. I'm conflicted. [SPOILERS - JOVIAN CONCORD]


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Probably a little important to remember that we are now dealing w/ Natah - not The Lotus.  The Lotus was a personality construct forced upon Natah.  So really - the Lotus never betrayed anyone - she just died when Natah woke up.  It's OK to love your Space Mom, just remember Natah isn't her, she's already dead.  

I think there is also a lot of speculation that the programming and tech that forced Natah to be the Lotus existed in the Lotus helmet (now in your orbiter) which makes her taking it off and dropping it more meaningful.  

Still... prolly gonna kill her.  hard choice.  Orokin, Grineer, Corpus - all corrupt. Infested - uncaring force of nature at this point, and then there are the sentients - who basically have been dumped on from the get go - created with a flaw (void/barren etc..) and when it really boils down - just wanting to make sure that the Orokin didn't spread their corruption to another star system, to survive - maybe get a little revenge...   from a once removed viewpoint - if they are willing to co-exist - they might not be the worst choice in the long run.  That's a choice we might get in The New War.  Tenno fighting Tenno... 

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9 hours ago, evilChair said:

Which opens up certain implications about the "catastrophic event" that knocked some Orokin towers out of the void and let them become infested nests 

Just FYI the old Lore didn't have any towers "knocked out of the void" it was the towers that failed to make it into the void that became the derelicts

Warframe_oldlore_vaults.jpg?raw=1

 

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On 2019-05-23 at 3:16 AM, (PS4)LeBlingKing69 said:

And while I want her to pay for her betrayal, I don't know if I can bring myself to hate her enough to kill her when the New War arrives.

daenerys-targaryen-meme-1556127294.png?c

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8 hours ago, Smilomaniac said:

DE has dragged this thing out for so long that I lost interest along the way. It's sort of a B-plot at this point.

Then again, I never connected with the character in the first place, I sort of saw her as an obstacle to the Tenno and as a leash on any character development that we could ever get beyond being generic good guys.

Additionally they've written themselves into a corner on this one.
If we go save her and succeed, it'd be an unfulfilling and consequence free plot.
If we go save her and fail, it'd be a predictable trope.
If we go to kill her and fail, it'll be an even more drawn out story line.
If we go to kill her and suceed, people are going to rage and feel unfulfilled.

The second option is probably the best one, at least from my perspective. The whole thing is concluded, our characters are finally free to leave the nest (and inevitably cause a civil war) and DE is free to continue the universe in whatever way they want.

I expect that we will both save her and fail at doing so. Seriously, what do you think happens when you keep popping that helmet on and off her? She'll get distraught, probably even get shell shock. After Chimera there's no going back, and if we do get to restore (not "save") the Lotus-amalgam, she won't be the same. She might turn out to be spiteful, resentful, cold for what we've done. Grateful? Perhaps that too, but overwhelmingly the former, though only enough for her to feel conflicted about the Tenno. Good writing requires bad situations, and bad situations happen when delicate things aren't done properly for the lack of time. Like, let's say, a personality surgery that seems to be upcoming. Angry, alienated Lotus incoming.

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At this point, I don't really see Lotus coming back. Like Natah said, she was a machine that was reprogrammed.
She took on the memory and image of a person(Margulis) that the Tenno had loved like she was their mother.
But now, she reverted back to Natah and is completely loyal to the sentients.

I'm not even sure if it will be possible to trust her if she ends up turning back into Lotus by the end of The New War, it would just feel fake.

If we had a choice to kill or spare her, I'd kill her. I'd rather move on.

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So, something I discovered. Ordis covers the Sabotage mission on Jupiter as well. Indicating that they're not writing new Lotus mission control dialogue. An argument for this could have been made with Fortuna, but now it's a trend, as an existing mission type has, albeit only for one node, received reworked dialogue.

Either she's staying evil, dying, or coming back in a different role, but this is very strong evidence that Lotus will not be reprising her original role if she returns to our side.

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On 2019-05-22 at 7:16 PM, (PS4)LeBlingKing69 said:
  Reveal hidden contents

But when I saw your tender faces, I took mercy.

sad cry GIF by Originals

God, I kinda wanna kill this chick for what she did to us in the Sacrifice, but... i miss her, my dudes. She's my mother, for the Void's sake! 

I could handle her being a sentient. I could handle her turning Ballas into an Amalgam. (or Chimera, whatever you wanna call him now)

And while I want her to pay for her betrayal, I don't know if I can bring myself to hate her enough to kill her when the New War arrives.

Where do you guys stand?

 

I don't think she betrayed us, not really. Ballas was a threat to us AND she cared about him due to her pseudoMargulis persona. The Sentient Mothers have direct influence over their children/exert a hive-mind influence on them (we know Natah as having been "riven" from them and that they'd want to reclaim her from Hunhow). It seems likely to me that she isn't in full control of her own actions, and that it wasn't her who actively chose to experiment on Ballas' half-dead body or betray us further, but rather that it's her mother actively influencing her interpretation of events and even her own actions. 

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3 hours ago, KnightCole said:

Id love to actually get through the damn sacrifice.  If only lvling up the kid to the point where hes not endlessly 1 shot by the damn Umbra wasnt such a friggin pita grind....

Just spam him with your beam until you win. The fight doesn't restart when you receive critical damage.

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24 minutes ago, Ksaero said:

Just spam him with your beam until you win. The fight doesn't restart when you receive critical damage.

Problem is I get less than 1 1/2s burst and im dead......like, I walk in the room, get dashed by him and dead....

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29 minutes ago, KnightCole said:

Problem is I get less than 1 1/2s burst and im dead......like, I walk in the room, get dashed by him and dead....

Try taking higher ground (tree, for example) by void-dashing.

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Well, I have to admit that people saying “Lotus is Margulis” were rigth after all 😆.

And I think that Ballas was telling the truth in Chinera Prologue: “There is only Natah.”

19 часов назад, Sabrea сказал:

Did everyone miss how she's encouraging us to kill that boss so we can grow stronger to fight against the coming Sentients?  Or that she's pointedly said she's still working with us because she cares?  Space Mom's back and she's MAD! 

 

Love the new look! ^_^

What?

Natah was encouraging Sentient boss. She was saying that it will die, but others will become stronger.

I found a couple of Jupiter fragments. Not a full picture, but it looks like Natah is one of the Alad “clients”. The idea is to put a huge pile of loot to lure Tenno in and toss Amalgams at them. Tenno kill Amalgams, next butch adapts and become stronger. Until there is an Amalgam “that you (Tenno) can not kill”. Ropalolyst is keeping Alad in line.

So... let it go. Natah is not Lotus.

Edit: does it mean that Disruption rewards come from late Lotus stash? All things that a Lone Tenno Operative found? Grrrrr!

Edited by rand0mname
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On 2019-05-23 at 3:53 PM, (PS4)reddragonhrcro said:

That didn't happen because she really cared for the Tenno.

She specifically says "golden lords" reprogrammed her to "care about tenno".

She never "loved" the tenno, Orokin just used her to nurture us.

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3 minutes ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

Ballas on the other hand I want to save and brainwash him so he can be my space dad and give me mission instructions.. ❤️ (I just melt Everytime he speaks I can't control it)

On a tangent here, but Moira from Overwatch is much of the same, down to the long limbs and fingers, all-genius-zero-ethics, and the Dublin accent. Kindred souls.

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8 hours ago, Ksaero said:

Try taking higher ground (tree, for example) by void-dashing.

The Operator is so clunky though.....plus, the Umbra seems to be faster than me anyway.  I void dash away, and before I turn around, hes spamming his Exaclibro #4 at me and bam .

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Just now, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

I just love him so much T-T 

That reminds me - personally I'd prefer a wholesale resurgence of the Orokin in TNW, not just Togaman. There's a lot of Orokin survivors like the Queens, Alad, (likely) Maroo; at least one Dax; perhaps some Orokin in punitive cryo (a way to handwave their survival) or hiding in panic rooms palaces; on top of that, the Red Vial from Ordis' entries seems to be the main tool to "Orokinise" people, so there's a likelihood that the high-level Orokin could gain numbers again and do so quickly.

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