Loza03 Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 2 hours ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said: I just love him so much T-T I'm not sure where you live, but over in the UK he's a very popular voice actor for adverts, or certainly was when I was a kid. Which means I was listening to Ballas long before I was in Warframe. I freaked when I found this out because I always found his voice super soothing and had no idea why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)reddragonhrcro Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 4 hours ago, HugintheCrow said: She specifically says "golden lords" reprogrammed her to "care about tenno". She never "loved" the tenno, Orokin just used her to nurture us. Read my entire post again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaoticEdge Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 (edited) so what did all the post voted for? Spoiler Seems bit about right to me...welp the only one way fix her is going into the mind of lotus and doing mind control! Note we did it on Umbra so why the fug not on lotus Edited May 24, 2019 by ChaoticEdge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HugintheCrow Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 52 minutes ago, (PS4)reddragonhrcro said: Read my entire post again. Read my post again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Tanta Cinta Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 I’ll kill her at any chance I get. Ballas reigns supreme in my world and I always wanted to switch sides. I’d rather help him reinstate the Empire than sit around on my ship weeping for some fake mother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)reddragonhrcro Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 1 hour ago, HugintheCrow said: Read my post again. I read it the first time, you ignored an important part of my post that includes it which you clearly ignored again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamPuppy Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 7 hours ago, KnightCole said: The Operator is so clunky though.....plus, the Umbra seems to be faster than me anyway. I void dash away, and before I turn around, hes spamming his Exaclibro #4 at me and bam . It's pretty simple even with a mote amp. 1). When umbra charges you, hit him w/ your amp. When he gets close, void dash a cross the room. He will chase after you, zap him again until he gets close. 2) keep doing this. If he knocks you back into your frame, void dash away from it as soon as you can. Keep him away from your frame and you can't die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDax Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 On 2019-05-22 at 8:16 PM, (PS4)LeBlingKing69 said: Hide contents But when I saw your tender faces, I took mercy. God, I kinda wanna kill this chick for what she did to us in the Sacrifice, but... i miss her, my dudes. She's my mother, for the Void's sake! I could handle her being a sentient. I could handle her turning Ballas into an Amalgam. (or Chimera, whatever you wanna call him now) And while I want her to pay for her betrayal, I don't know if I can bring myself to hate her enough to kill her when the New War arrives. Where do you guys stand? I really hope you're joking. It's a fictional character, one which hasn't actually been a mother to you. It shouldn't be hard to just accept that you might fight it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ephemiel Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 3 hours ago, ChaoticEdge said: so what did all the post voted for? Reveal hidden contents Seems bit about right to me...welp the only one way fix her is going into the mind of lotus and doing mind control! Note we did it on Umbra so why the fug not on lotus When the hell did we mind control Umbra? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loza03 Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 1 minute ago, Ephemiel said: When the hell did we mind control Umbra? Uh... literally every time we use transference on him? Admittedly, it's consensual and mutually beneficial mind control, but mind control nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightCole Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 51 minutes ago, RamPuppy said: It's pretty simple even with a mote amp. 1). When umbra charges you, hit him w/ your amp. When he gets close, void dash a cross the room. He will chase after you, zap him again until he gets close. 2) keep doing this. If he knocks you back into your frame, void dash away from it as soon as you can. Keep him away from your frame and you can't die. My frame? I dont get a frame for the mission im on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ephemiel Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 46 minutes ago, Loza03 said: Uh... literally every time we use transference on him? Admittedly, it's consensual and mutually beneficial mind control, but mind control nonetheless. We reassure him that he's not alone anymore and shouldn't continue to be tormented by the memory of what happened to him and what he did to his son, it has NOTHING to do with freaking mind control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl_Ray_Person Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 There's a lot of dialog from previous quests we tend to forget when trying to parse out what's going on here. Here's a line: "Natah was the daughter, until I destroyed her. Now I am the Lotus, now I am the mother." Easy to dismiss as a wordy way of saying "that person is dead" in the metaphorical sense when someone wants to distance themselves from their past, and she does get touchy when Teshin calls her "Natah," except she isn't a person, she's a robot from a species of robots who are very bizarre and alien compared to what humans think of as 'normal.' She may mean it very literally, that when she chose to become the Lotus, it wasn't just choosing a new name to be known by, but literally remaking (reprogramming) herself into the different person she wanted to be. Natah and the Lotus could very well be separate separate people in many ways. However literal it is, though, this line directly conflicts with Natah asserting that becoming a mother figure for the orphans of 10-0 was forced on her and she was fooled into thinking it was of her own free will. These ideas are mutually exclusive; one of them must be wrong. One of them may or may not be actively lying. If the Lotus is lying or wrong, then the situation is exactly what Natah says it is. If Natah is wrong, however, she may not be lying so much as she's telling her side of the story or what she's been told, and the truth is more complicated than she thinks. Her dialog in the assassination mission is very much her side of the story, and her side isn't exactly unbiased. Here's another line, this one from Hunhow: "As I awake, so will they. They will say you are riven, and will want to reclaim you. I will not be able to stop them." This is interesting because Hunhow demonstrates a seething hatred for the Orokin and the Tenno, and is beside himself at the knowledge that his daughter betrayed him, but 'I will not be able to stop them' heavily implies that despite the betrayal, the consequences of the Sentients taking her back are consequences he does not want to see her suffer. 'They will say you are riven,' meaning she will be judged to be broken and in need of fixing regardless of her brokenness being of her own choice. Another important line is from the man in the wall at the end of War Within. Two of the three lines he can say depending on your sun/moon alignment suggest that he is responsible for the children gaining their void powers, instead of it being a mere side-effect of the entire ordeal. Natah is now making somewhat overt references to the man in the wall after the Lotus spent most of Chains of Harrow saying he was just a figment of the Red Veil's dogma or Rell hallucinating something that wasn't there. I don't have a real guess for where this is going, but it's interesting that the Tenno may have been empowered deliberately by a force that just so happens to be anathema to the Sentients; maybe he doesn't have random chaotic motivations at all, maybe he finds the Sentients as abhorrent as the Sentients see the Tenno and wants them destroyed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loza03 Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 Just now, Ephemiel said: We reassure him that he's not alone anymore and shouldn't continue to be tormented by the memory of what happened to him and what he did to his son, it has NOTHING to do with freaking mind control. He has his own will, which we override when using transference. That's a part of his whole 'can move on his own' thing. We take control of his body. That's pretty much mind control by way of possession. By contrast, other frames are described as 'No sense, no self, no death'. Again - it's consensual, and thus without a lot of the trappings that usually come with mind control, especially possession (which is usually forced upon a person) but nevertheless, we are directly controlling his body, putting our mind over his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ephemiel Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 Just now, Loza03 said: He has his own will, which we override when using transference. That's a part of his whole 'can move on his own' thing. We take control of his body. That's pretty much mind control by way of possession. By contrast, other frames are described as 'No sense, no self, no death'. Again - it's consensual, and thus without a lot of the trappings that usually come with mind control, especially possession (which is usually forced upon a person) but nevertheless, we are directly controlling his body, putting our mind over his own. .....dude, did you even PLAY the game? We don't "override his will". If you did play the game, you'd know that the Warframe moves by itself during one of the fights against Shadow Stalker too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaoticEdge Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 2 hours ago, Ephemiel said: When the hell did we mind control Umbra? umm we just did by touching him a lot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade343 Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 22 minutes ago, ChaoticEdge said: umm we just did by touching him a lot... Umbra needs another adult. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loza03 Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Ephemiel said: .....dude, did you even PLAY the game? We don't "override his will". If you did play the game, you'd know that the Warframe moves by itself during one of the fights against Shadow Stalker too. When you pop out of Umbra, he does his own thing, right? He has a 'mind'. But when we're in him, we control him. When we are occupying his body, nothing happens without our say-so. Which indicates that, for one reason or another, he is not controlling his body. We are not his mind, but we are controlling his body. That is mind control. Technically body control/possession, but that's literally semantics and usually considered a subtype of mind control anyway. I say overriding his will, because that's the most likely explanation, but honestly it's neither known nor matters. And yes, I have seen that cutscene. It's literally the same one the quote is from. The quote was illustrating that, technically, transference isn't mind control on regular Warframes as there isn't an original mind in the host body. Or at least not an active one or one that has any say as to what its body does. Not that it matters because it's the same process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SauriaLizardqueen Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 Considering how Natah speaks during the mission, compared to how Hunhow speaks, for me, Natah has been HEAVILY brainwashed by her family and her incredibly cultist-like, indoctrinated speech is the result of it. While Hunhow has spoken in metaphors before, it was never that forced and he spoke "normally" most of the time, just "evilly poetic". The younger Natah's speech is, for a lack of a better word, highly disturbing to listen to, especially if you've seen stuff involving cults, sects, etc whether real or fictional. With the various plot twists DE has given us already, I wouldn't be surprised if they went with making us believe Natah was evil all along and brainwashed to be good, with the truth being the opposite. Or even that Hunhow is actually forcing his will to all the Sentient Hive Mind and most of them just want to be left alone and make peace with the remnants of Hunhow's enemies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Silverback73 Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 (edited) On 2019-05-23 at 10:16 PM, Squalobo said: At this point, I don't really see Lotus coming back. Like Natah said, she was a machine that was reprogrammed. She took on the memory and image of a person(Margulis) that the Tenno had loved like she was their mother. But now, she reverted back to Natah and is completely loyal to the sentients. I'm not even sure if it will be possible to trust her if she ends up turning back into Lotus by the end of The New War, it would just feel fake. If we had a choice to kill or spare her, I'd kill her. I'd rather move on. Unlesssss...they go the Total Recall route...(“That guy is an @$$hole!” Lol) FREE WILL being that annoying wild card that comes with Sentience, Sapience, and self-awareness and all that...you know, DE’s very definition of the machine race she belongs to? Why do I say this? Because of this key line: ”Dream. Not of what you are. But what you want to be.” Natah knows what she is. But what does she want to be? But DE heavily suggests she has Free Will that is in conflict with the Sentient Collective. The problem is, “Choice”, eh, Neo? Edited May 25, 2019 by (PS4)Silverback73 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oreades Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 17 hours ago, ChaoticEdge said: so what did all the post voted for? Reveal hidden contents Seems bit about right to me...welp the only one way fix her is going into the mind of lotus and doing mind control! Note we did it on Umbra so why the fug not on lotus That's assuming that isn't what the Sentients just did to her. If the Orokin could supposedly overwrite her what's to say the Sentients can't do the same thing. At that point who's to say which side actually did the thing, hell maybe they both overwrote her in one way or another. So it's still possible that the real Lotus did betray her people for us willingly. I mean her actions in the Orogin system don't really make sense if she had been reprogrammed to kill the sentients. I mean all we have done for the last few hundred years appears to be maintaining balance, if anything that indirectly helps the sentients. About the only nugget of the story that I beleieve and was curious about was, why the Sentients returned at all if they where in the Tau system and that was the "Golden Wrath" which I'm guessing was some kind of remote failsafe system in case they needed to end the sentients. Except some of them survived. So I guess my TL;DR is I'm not sure how to feel about the Lotus still. I'm still getting a "she's going to come to her senses at the last second just before it's too late" sorta vibe but who knows, tho that might be as we're killing her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iLightning13 Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 Just turn on Creator Mode and you'll get her back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaoticEdge Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 16 hours ago, Renegade343 said: Umbra needs another adult. what you talking about he touch a kid...so someone calls the space police for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade343 Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, ChaoticEdge said: what you talking about he touch a kid...so someone calls the space police for that. Why not both? Arrest both Umbra and us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshenHaze Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 I'm still going to kill her if given the chance. Canonically, she chose her side. This side seeks to destroy our characters. Hesitation will only bring about more strife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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