Oberon vs Nekros

[taiiat]

3 hours ago, AugustFestival said:

so even if rage and hunter adrenaline didn't exist oberon would still have one of the lowest costing skills and because they DO exist oberon has effectively the lowest cost channeling ability because the drain is effectively negated by energy gain on health damage, the only channeling abilities who come close to oberons cost are hydroid's and valkyrs because they both have self heal, unless im missing one.

i mean, Energy on Health Damage is important to Oberons' existence as to how things are balanced - if it didn't exist then the cost of Renewal would be a bit gross and Oberon would require capping the Energy Drain efficiency curve in order to use Renewal.
but it does exist, and as such one of those Mods is welded to Oberon, for better or for worse. granted it can just replace one of the Efficiency/Duration Mods that one would have Equipped instead if that wasn't an option.

2 hours ago, FatherGrimm said:

DE really needs to make Renewal less complicated

or at least give the cast location a persistent visible effect to show people where it is while it's active.  It's hard to direct a party to a new Renewal casting spot when the buff drops off due to falling off the map or running out of juice.

don't make the ability less complicated, that is code for deleting features out of the Ability. too many Abilities have been gutted like that already, we don't need more of them do have that happen.

but should Abiliites make their features clear, and not hide them from the Player? 100%.

 

2 hours ago, KnightCole said:

So why do I see the reknewal buff icon appear on allies when they enter my dance floor then?

are we all sure we're on the same page as to which icon is which?
see also:
https://semlar.com/buffs

2 hours ago, KnightCole said:

As for the duration affecting effiiciency, I would only suggest it for Oberon.  Its just a double dipping of his energy drain.

see, the thing is that when you're negative on both then yes, it's double dipping your Energy. but, the benefit of Energy Drain Abilities working with Duration Mods is that positive of these Stats.... double dips in the other direction.

which is kind've convenient.
see also.

Edited May 29, 2019 by taiiat

[AugustFestival]

On 2019-05-29 at 10:43 AM, KnightCole said:

So why do I see the reknewal buff icon appear on allies when they enter my dance floor then? 

i don't know, take a picture of it and upload it to imgur because if that IS happening its a very weird bug unique to you, whats more likely is that you are mistaking another icon for renewal. 

On 2019-05-29 at 10:43 AM, KnightCole said:

  I know, I know, games these days like to show you one thing, but then have 10 secret mechanics that you wont know unless your a no lifer who data mines and extensively and deeply tests stuff out....Ashisogi Tenno did this in several videos, he showed many of the sekrit dokuments and abilities frame abilities have, beyond what the description shows.  Wargaming's games are great at this.....

here this page goes into complete detail about all of oberons abilities https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Oberon/Abilities it isn't secret.

On 2019-05-29 at 10:43 AM, KnightCole said:

your suggesting if a Nekros is in the group, on say, a defense mission, that I fly off to a random corner of the map to cast my spell.

yea it takes 10 seconds tops and its even easier in all the other map types

 

[AugustFestival]

On 2019-05-29 at 12:54 PM, taiiat said:

i mean, Energy on Health Damage is important to Oberons' existence as to how things are balanced - if it didn't exist then the cost of Renewal would be a bit gross and Oberon would require capping the Energy Drain efficiency curve in order to use Renewal.
 

I agree it would have to be capped at 3 or something

On 2019-05-29 at 12:54 PM, taiiat said:

aree we're on the same page as to which icon is which?
see also:
https://semlar.com/buffs

pretty sure hallowed ground displays an icon when you are on it because its making you immune to status effects?

 

[spirit_of_76]

On 2019-05-29 at 9:07 AM, FatherGrimm said:

or at least give the cast location a persistent visible effect to show people where it is while it's active.  It's hard to direct a party to a new Renewal casting spot when the buff drops off due to falling off the map or running out of juice.

I mark mine but If you were nullified you can't regain the buff (it's not truly permanent) or at least that has been my experience which is frustrating as getting CCed into a nullifier/off a cliff and losing the buff is the fastest way to die as an Oberon (he could use better base stats).  

[spirit_of_76]

On 2019-05-29 at 9:53 AM, KnightCole said:

I have a Hildryn in the group casting shields on everyone, including me.  Or a Trin, or any other frame that prevents health damage.

it is a pain that Oberon has anti-synergy with all of the supports except himself (he self synergizes very well), one excellent combo is buffing wisp and Oberon.  I did a sortie with a hildryn once discounting the lack of powerful weapons (the condition was examiss stronghold) the hildryn spent most of her time preventing my whole kit form working (Oboern, primary and melee, my secondary was 70% built with the wrong elements)  while the hildryn did a good job, unfortunately, both of our kits were incompatible as her 4 prevented the free finisher form S&O and her 2 prevented me form making full use of renewal + ability spam.    

[Chipputer]

On 2019-05-22 at 10:40 PM, Xzorn said:

If you're playing some healing rock build then don't play it in groups.

No one cares about Oberon's heal over time. It's Phoenix Renewal which gives any value to his 3rd ability anyways. Healing isn't needed and Armor does nearly nothing on it's own. Everything Oberon does that's of value to a team requires multiple casts. I use Energize on my Oberon and still wouldn't go under 160% Efficiency.

I just want to quote this, 5 pages later, to make sure people are paying attention to it.

Oberon only needs 170% strength to strip armor in two casts, sans any Corrosive Projection. Couple that with Phoenix Renewal essentially giving Renewal a guaranteed life save every 90 seconds (meaning your party is free to make a mistake every once in a while) and you've got plenty of room to work with to fill your build out that doesn't require you to pump your strength and tank your duration and efficiency.

[KnightCole]

1 hour ago, spirit_of_76 said:

I mark mine but If you were nullified you can't regain the buff (it's not truly permanent) or at least that has been my experience which is frustrating as getting CCed into a nullifier/off a cliff and losing the buff is the fastest way to die as an Oberon (he could use better base stats).  

Or buff his kit a touch, so we dont need so much strength to get the skills to worth while lvls.

Its annoying how I have 275+526+600 armor and still evaporate under fire in higher lvls.  From about 45-50 minutes onward in Kuva Survival, its constant random 1 shots from everything, ranging from Jesters to shield S#&$ters to Grunts.  The 105/s doesnt quite seem to do it.  Anything less then that just seems completely useless.  Plus it takes multiple casts of 4 with the 2 +CP to strip armor.  Which is another reason I run 250+ Strength. Its 2, 4, no armor.  Oberons kit is fun to use but really is lack luster overall.  He doesnt 130+ lvl enemy very well...Then again, I think the scaling of enemies gets out of hand past lvl 80 anyway.  Its like past around 80 enemies just start exponentially increasing by hilarious amounts.  Even no Armor they start tanking headshots like im using an unranked Lato...

[MirageKnight]

1 hour ago, Chipputer said:

I just want to quote this, 5 pages later, to make sure people are paying attention to it.

Actually, I'm going to continue to completely ignore it because it's nothing but an arrogant opinion regarding a build.

First and foremost...Neither you nor he get to say what I and others can and can't do with Oberon.

Secondly, the claim that people don't care about heal over time is nothing more than a presumptuous, sweeping generalization based on anecdotal evidence.

2 hours ago, Chipputer said:

Oberon only needs 170% strength to strip armor in two casts, sans any Corrosive Projection. Couple that with Phoenix Renewal essentially giving Renewal a guaranteed life save every 90 seconds (meaning your party is free to make a mistake every once in a while) and you've got plenty of room to work with to fill your build out that doesn't require you to pump your strength and tank your duration and efficiency.

So?

My Rage 250+ Strength build allows me to not just heal up the group nicely and make them more resistant to damage, but it also allows me inflict some heavy damage in addition to doing CC and armor stripping (where applicable). Oh yeah, and remove status / kill things in a wide area.

I might not be able to compete with Saryn for kills (then again, she's stupidly OP anyway), but I can rack up a pretty respectable score with abilities alone, all while keeping the team alive and kicking.

[Nirrel]

11 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

Actually, I'm going to continue to completely ignore it because it's nothing but an arrogant opinion regarding a build.

First and foremost...Neither you nor he get to say what I and others can and can't do with Oberon.

Secondly, the claim that people don't care about heal over time is nothing more than a presumptuous, sweeping generalization based on anecdotal evidence.

So?

My Rage 250+ Strength build allows me to not just heal up the group nicely and make them more resistant to damage, but it also allows me inflict some heavy damage in addition to doing CC and armor stripping (where applicable). Oh yeah, and remove status / kill things in a wide area.

I might not be able to compete with Saryn for kills (then again, she's stupidly OP anyway), but I can rack up a pretty respectable score with abilities alone, all while keeping the team alive and kicking.

There is nothing more arrogant then to ignore a good advice thinking that you know better without even giving it thought.

Nobody told you that you cannot build your oberon as you want it to, that wasn't his point.

However having so much strength is not useful in any way. Not sure what you mean by 250+ but I'll go for 255 (if not you would have gone for 260+?)?  Well if you build for 233 + CP you can armour strip with a single cast (not that you really need it to do it in only one if you have enough efficiency, but why not...) and you can still have more range and duration and 100% efficiency. But more to the point you can fit phoenix renewal witch is the single most important and useful mod that an healer oberon can have. The difference is 50 armour and around 7 health/sec wich is not very useful ( above all on a 100 minute kuva survival) and objectively oberon damage isn't worth it either. If you go for 60/100+ min kuva survival that damage will stop to be of any use at level 40 mobs.

While I do think that the interaction with nekros day of the death is just a useless mechanic and more counterproductive than anything else, but I still will mention that you can go way longer and easier with way less deaths in your team with an oberon and nekros in the same squad with a more efficient build and phoenix renewal equipped.  I had no problems whatsoever to keep up renewal with a nekros ever, not even on a longer run and had no problem healing my team. When you go on higher levels the healing no matter how big it is won't be very useful when mobs can hit you for bigger numbers than your full health pool. On the other hand PR will save your life every 90 seconds no matter what.

 

 

 

[spirit_of_76]

18 hours ago, KnightCole said:

Or buff his kit a touch, so we dont need so much strength to get the skills to worth while lvls.

Its annoying how I have 275+526+600 armor and still evaporate under fire in higher lvls.  From about 45-50 minutes onward in Kuva Survival, its constant random 1 shots from everything, ranging from Jesters to shield S#&$ters to Grunts.  The 105/s doesnt quite seem to do it.  Anything less then that just seems completely useless.  Plus it takes multiple casts of 4 with the 2 +CP to strip armor.  Which is another reason I run 250+ Strength. Its 2, 4, no armor.  Oberons kit is fun to use but really is lack luster overall.  He doesnt 130+ lvl enemy very well...Then again, I think the scaling of enemies gets out of hand past lvl 80 anyway.  Its like past around 80 enemies just start exponentially increasing by hilarious amounts.  Even no Armor they start tanking headshots like im using an unranked Lato...

I want the Armor buff to scale similarly to how rhino's iron skin works.  that or giving it a better starting value/scaling rate.  my main complaint is that his health stats are worse than saryns despite being a paladin.  that and I would love some synergy with shields/ the morningstar like the new frames have with their weapons.  his heal is fine for the most part but past LV 100 you need phenix renewal or quick thinking to prevent the one/ two shoting as you almost never die to sustained damag/chip even at those levels.  he is great in any content where you can maintain your buffs and the damage never gets into the 2 shot territory but that is his requirement to be good.  if that is not the case he is either overkill or useless as dumb as that is Oberon as he is works from LV 30-150.  one fun thing you can do is take multiple Oberons as they stack this lets you indefinitely face tank whole armies for a stupid amount of time but you will likely need friends as most pub players don't use renewal. (you know the reason to use him)

[spirit_of_76]

17 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

Saryn for kills (then again, she's stupidly OP anyway

there are only 3 times I want to play with a saryn 
ESO
when I am leveling weapons
in a game mode where killing stupid large numbers is the entire point

[spirit_of_76]

5 hours ago, Nirrel said:

However having so much strength is not useful in any way. Not sure what you mean by 250+ but I'll go for 255 (if not you would have gone for 260+?)?  Well if you build for 233 + CP you can armour strip with a single cast (not that you really need it to do it in only one if you have enough efficiency, but why not...) and you can still have more range and duration and 100% efficiency. But more to the point you can fit phoenix renewal witch is the single most important and useful mod that an healer oberon can have. The difference is 50 armour and around 7 health/sec wich is not very useful ( above all on a 100 minute kuva survival) and objectively oberon damage isn't worth it either. If you go for 60/100+ min kuva survival that damage will stop to be of any use at level 40 mobs.

you want a shade less than 100% armor strip on Oberon unless you know that you will be armor striping all enemies because of Overstrip (it will hurt performance on when you have a damage advantage over the armor type but in a full CP squad that is not a problem).  but I agree with you on the over 230% is more than a tad useless and he is better serviced by either improving the spamability of his one (it scales based on target health and can clear rooms of fodder if you pick the right target.)  the range/ duration of his 2 and 4  (this increases the amount of CC they can provide combined with hallowed ground improving team survivability as well).  his biggest problem is that he wants to much to truly be good.  combined with some low/slow scaling buffs he could use a number's adjustment but he is sitting near the bottom of frames that need tuning or should be used as the metric for tuning.  

[MirageKnight]

6 hours ago, Nirrel said:

There is nothing more arrogant then to ignore a good advice thinking that you know better without even giving it thought.

I did give it thought...and then felt my build serves my needs better. You have a problem with that?

There are few things more arrogant than assuming too much about what people do or think - based on scant evidence no less - and then believing you're completely correct in your assumptions. And you did that just now.

Also, I don't listen to advice from people that barge in and say "You're wrong because I say so / my build is superior"...I listen to suggestions from players - you know things like "Hey I noticed you're doing x to achieve z. Maybe if you tried y, you could get better results? It works for me".

See the difference? One person is being a pushy, self-important jerk. The other is trying to be helpful. Guess who I'm going to listen to? I'll give you a hint: It's not the jerk.

6 hours ago, Nirrel said:

Nobody told you that you cannot build your oberon as you want it to, that wasn't his point.

20 hours ago, Chipputer said:

If you're playing some healing rock build then don't play it in groups.

 

*cough*

That sounds an awful lot like someone telling me what I'm allowed to build for a group.

[Nirrel]

38 minutes ago, spirit_of_76 said:

you want a shade less than 100% armor strip on Oberon unless you know that you will be armor striping all enemies because of Overstrip (it will hurt performance on when you have a damage advantage over the armor type but in a full CP squad that is not a problem).  but I agree with you on the over 230% is more than a tad useless and he is better serviced by either improving the spamability of his one (it scales based on target health and can clear rooms of fodder if you pick the right target.)  the range/ duration of his 2 and 4  (this increases the amount of CC they can provide combined with hallowed ground improving team survivability as well).  his biggest problem is that he wants to much to truly be good.  combined with some low/slow scaling buffs he could use a number's adjustment but he is sitting near the bottom of frames that need tuning or should be used as the metric for tuning.  

To be fair, I rarely use the armour strip anyway, because it's too much of a hassle and normal gameplay doesn't really requires it. I can one or 2 shot pretty much everything up to a hundred no matter what and if I go for a long run I organize the run and will have 4 cp. 🙂

6 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

 You have a problem with that?

LOL. You are really needlessly agressive for no good reason.

 

6 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

That sounds an awful lot like someone telling me what I'm allowed to build for a group.

That's sounds as an advise to me and not an imposition, considering the contex of the thread as well. If you wanna go for that kind of build don't be surprised that you wont be able to keep it up in a pubblic group above all if there is a nekros as well... Obviously you can still go for it...still your choice