SolarDwagon Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 JUST GIVE ME MY CHASSIS 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firetempest Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 (edited) AKA how a free to play pushes plat sales. You would have to run it just as much if not more if it was a token system. They are not going to make it cost 1 token per part, if you did, that would be delusional. It would likely be ~5 tokens per part or more. Edited May 23, 2019 by Firetempest 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DG-ShadowPrime Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 13 Runs you get 3 pieces while there are people who did 10 runs and got 10 chassis. Keep going bro, RNG will bless you soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltage Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 (edited) You have Excalibur Prime and the structure of the game has been like this for half a decade... It's fine the way it is. The Amalgam mods aren't tradeable either so you should keep running it anyways until you get everything. It's not exactly a long fight either. Edited May 23, 2019 by Voltage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsukinoki Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 RNG is RNG. But seriously, why does everyone want to turn the entirety of warframe into basically faction rep? Especially since its not like "Oh with a token system I can get it in 3 runs guaranteed!" it would be more like "I can get the frame in 15 runs, with absolutely no chance that I'll get it sooner than that!" Something like this would only make the average grind longer, not shorter. A direct comparison would be alerts vs nightwave, one is RNG and one is a token based system. Which one is on average faster to get what you want? Sure the token based system does have the bonus that you know it won't take you 40 runs to get what you want...but it also completely removes the option that you'll get it in just 4 or 5 runs. Also with this in place, what would be the incentive to buy any warframe or weapon that drops from a boss? After all I know I'll get it in X runs (with each run taking under a minute on average), so why bother buying anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazarow Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 Lucky you were able to get a few solid runs done. my first and only run got screwed up somehow and we got no rewards so im waiting on hotfixes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolarDwagon Posted May 23, 2019 Author Share Posted May 23, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Voltage said: You have Excalibur Prime and lthe structure of the game has been like this for half a decade... It's fine the way it is. The Amalgam mods aren't tradeable either so you should keep running it anyways until you get everything. It's not exactly a long fight either. What does Excal have to do with anything, and many vets have been saying this for half a decade. 5 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said: RNG is RNG. But seriously, why does everyone want to turn the entirety of warframe into basically faction rep? Especially since its not like "Oh with a token system I can get it in 3 runs guaranteed!" it would be more like "I can get the frame in 15 runs, with absolutely no chance that I'll get it sooner than that!" Something like this would only make the average grind longer, not shorter. A direct comparison would be alerts vs nightwave, one is RNG and one is a token based system. Which one is on average faster to get what you want? Sure the token based system does have the bonus that you know it won't take you 40 runs to get what you want...but it also completely removes the option that you'll get it in just 4 or 5 runs. Also with this in place, what would be the incentive to buy any warframe or weapon that drops from a boss? After all I know I'll get it in X runs (with each run taking under a minute on average), so why bother buying anything? I'm calling bs on running the new boss in under a minute. No boss with invlun phases is that quick, and even most others take longer through sheer length of mission. The above results screen is from roughly an hour and a half to two hours, between matchmaking, getting to and from location, and myself and pubs learning the fight. You also say that like a token system would be inherently badly balanced. You picked 15 runs with no chance of getting it sooner. Why not 5? Why not be able to trade back pieces for 1/3 of the tokens to get a new piece? Or 1/2? Then you get the best of the current system, where some people get frames in 3 (4 for wisp) runs, but there would be an upper cap no matter how unlucky you were. Edited May 23, 2019 by SolarDwagon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)ShadowBlood89 Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 then have people complain about the token system being not good enough. i cant get enough tokens to get so an so item, buff it then have people saying nerf the amount of tokens. its rng, if you cant handle the fact that you have no luck either buy wips with plat, leave warframe behind or learn to accept that rng is vital part of any game with grindign for items 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsukinoki Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 20 minutes ago, SolarDwagon said: I'm calling bs on running the new boss in under a minute. No boss with invlun phases is that quick, and even most others take longer through sheer length of mission. I was talking more in general, not the new boss for wisp specifically here. But quite a few bosses in the game can have the mission just be rushed through, one shot the boss, and rush out in about a minute, 3 at the very most, especially if you have a frame with movement abilities. It only takes a long time for a boss if you get unlucky with the tiles that spawn, say like getting tons of elevators. But that doesn't happen too often. 22 minutes ago, SolarDwagon said: You also say that like a token system would be inherently badly balanced. You picked 15 runs with no chance of getting it sooner. Why not 5? Why not be able to trade back pieces for 1/3 of the tokens to get a new piece? Or 1/2? Then you get the best of the current system, where some people get frames in 3 (4 for wisp) runs, but there would be an upper cap no matter how unlucky you were. The reason I chose 15? Look at nightwave. That is an example of exactly what you are asking for. DE turning an RNG system into a token based system. Did the amount of grind needed to get rewards drop? On average the answer is a no. The amount of grind increased. Sure its a 100% guaranteed thing now...but you now do more grinding because of it. That is what would happen with bosses with DEs previous example. A token based system inherently has more grind, not less, than an RNG based system for the average player; and it prevents people from being lucky and getting something faster than anyone else. Add onto that the fact that in order to encourage plat sales, in place of it being "Well you're unlucky, how about buying it?" it would become "Well, you can grind this boss for 4 hours for the tokens you need, or you can buy it...." after all DE still needs to encourage plat purchases and frames are surprisingly purchased quite a bit. Why would they go down to 4-5 runs to get something...when it means no one would ever buy it with plat ever again? The amount of runs would be high to encourage people to buy plat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loswaith Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tsukinoki said: A token based system inherently has more grind, not less, than an RNG based system for the average player; and it prevents people from being lucky and getting something faster than anyone else. Actually token systems don't inherently have anything, they only have more grind if they are made to have more grind. Take the Nightwave system, DE took what was a single random mission (the alerts) you could do or ignore to get things and made them require some 6+ non-random mission tasks you couldn't ignore (if you wanted the same reward). Token systems are just inherently that X tokens for Y effort. Warframe is as riddled with them just as it is with RNG (ie, ducats, resources, credits, traces, etc.). It's actually quite easy to make the system an RNG but with a fail-safe. This can be achieved by simply letting players say trade in say 5 parts of a frame to get another part of their choice from the same frame. This then lets the RNG let you get it early if you get lucky, or after doing some 15/16 runs (in the case of 5 parts). This way duplicates feel like you are still getting somewhere even if you don't get a part you want, as opposed to the feeling of just wasting your time. It just requires DE to decide that X number of boss missions would be the upper cap needed to get Y frame. Plenty of players will still buy frames too, as some don't like the specific mission, aren't ready for it or just don't want to wait for the build time. Edited May 23, 2019 by Loswaith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oreades Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 (edited) Oh god for a second I thought you meant bosses that ran on token systems like Kela (still my favorite boss mechanically btw) or or Mitalist Alad V? I dunno I know there are a couple bosses I just don't do even tho I kinda enjoy them because of their token requirement. I was going to be all Darth Vader and be all NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!11!1one!!!1!!1oneone!!!1!uno!!!1!! Going over the OPs issue it's clear they are talking about more of a cumulaive encounter token system that lets you buy what you want from the boss "store" as long as you have completed the encounter and earned the tokens the requisite number of times. I'm kinda OK with that idea I'd still say keep the boss RNG but have it as something to fall back on incase RNG totally fails. As RNG is prone to do from time to time. Edited May 23, 2019 by Oreades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolarDwagon Posted May 23, 2019 Author Share Posted May 23, 2019 9 minutes ago, ChaosSabre said: Took me round 20 runs to get one system drop here. I got chassis all the time. Attempts to throw half his system drops at you. Failing tokens, just let us trade non-prime warframe parts! Maybe make the credit tax significant or MR lock more frames so that newbies can't just be given 40 different frames in week one, but something! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypernaut1 Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 Finally people are suffering to realize that token systems aren't always better than RNG. It only took 8 or so syndicate to get that point across. I always wondered why people were so insistent on making everything a token system. Not only does it make things more it a guaranteed grind with only a payoff at the end, it takes away the excitement and thrill of getting something early Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiiat Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 10 hours ago, Firetempest said: You would have to run it just as much if not more if it was a token system. They are not going to make it cost 1 token per part, if you did, that would be delusional. It would likely be ~5 tokens per part or more. people not understanding concepts like this is what's wrong with the world. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterc3 Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 10 hours ago, Tsukinoki said: But seriously, why does everyone want to turn the entirety of warframe into basically faction rep? They really think DE is not paying attention and would just let people grind the minimum for things that should at least nudge you towards the Plat option. In short, delusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bibmobello Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 5 hours ago, ChaosSabre said: Took me round 20 runs to get one system drop here. I got chassis all the time. This is the rng, i got everything but the chassis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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