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Ceanmunt

What is with the current notion of entitlement?

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3 hours ago, MythicPulse said:

forgot a set of quotation marks around 'entitlement'. It's not a real thing.

I hate to be the one to break this to you, but entitlement IS a real thing.  So much of a real thing that there are varying levels of it.  Just saying.  😁 

edit: As to how it applies to some Warframe players and/or generations is somewhat debatable.  For the record I'm of the Gen X generation.  That said, I can understand some things from both generations before and after mine.  

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3 hours ago, V0LDY said:

Jeez those entitled players, it's almost like they actually want to play the game instead of brainless grinding for resources, how dare they desire such thing.

Except a LARGE part of this game IS grinding for resources.

The devs even include artificial time and resource caps to slow us down...simply because it takes them ages to produce new content.

 

Its not ideal but I can understand why they do this.

Plus I'm not one of those players who grind til it hurts. This is where being a casual player is a good thing. You never play for long enough to get sick of it.

 

This is less about entitlement and more about casual versus hardcore players (although you could say those demanding better rewards for less grind are suffering from entitlement).

 

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7 hours ago, AshenHaze said:

Is there any reason the game should have outrageous levels of work to put in when there's no PvP aspect or "world's first" aspect? There's no competition with other players and all the 'excessive' work does is create plat farmers for people with full time jobs. Some things are more reasonable than others but at the same time should it really take 10+ hours to achieve what 10 plat can do? Should it really be at drop chances from random mobs at .15%? I get that people "should just play the game" but if you can only truly dedicate a combined total of 2 hours or so a day a grind that goes on for 20+ hours becomes more of a chore and begs the user to dump money into the game.

For example, I went off to farm out a ballistica prime and the rare blueprint took me about two weeks to get that darn blueprint. I went through 14 or so relics, each of which pushed to radiant. It's a very long process. Now of course the ballistica prime blueprint is 15 or so plat on .market. Should I really have to spend two weeks or so ingame time to complete what 1$ USD does? It's just a ridiculous conversion that two weeks is a whole dollar.

IT should be at least somewhat reasonable. In some cases, it just feels obtuse. Like the game is taunting saying "Look at this gross level of time you spent to get this."

Welcome to F2P game economics.

Those are your 2 options...either grind or spend money to avoid the grind. Warframe is not unique in this. I have played worse games (World of Tanks, for example).

 

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5 hours ago, Lutesque said:

I DO !!!!  I really really would like both those things.... actually if I could get a hug from a Giant Cookie right before I immediately Take a Bite out of it then I wpuld die happy...

So you're argument is essentially: "Its not so bad because other games are worse" ?

Okay fine... here's my counter argument... Its bad because other games are better....

See how pointless this whole thing was ? 

Try Again...

 

No, that's not my argument... actually, I'm not arguing. I am laughing at you and others because other grinding games are more grindy than Warframe and you are complaining! That's hilarious!

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Am 24.5.2019 um 09:11 schrieb lnfine:

Eeeh. Wisp needs about 1200 hexaeders or whatever. I did a 70min dark sector survival run with a Khora (there were also 2 Nekroses), we got about 500 thingies.

 

I got 1774 Hexenon after not even 3hours i literally did the Mission 1-3 Operation event mission once, ran two times 20min of Endurance, one run of ganymede and got 1774 of Hexenon.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Destorka said:

If you are talking about pre-RoS Diablo 3, then I give you the point there, but if you are talking about Diablo 3 in its current state, then you are doing something very wrong. Also comparing a 0.25% Primal drop chance to a 1.5-2% aura forma or to a 1% pure cosmetic item is kind of stupid. And btw, people know if they can't reach GR70 solo, they shouldn't even expect a Primal Ancient drop (that you actually need only for pushing the leaderboards, but for t13 you won't ever need a primal). You are comparing an ancient legendary item with max roll on each stat to a forma that has some impact and to a cosmetic that has zero impact on your frame. Diablo 3 in its current state is 1000x more newbie friendly and easier to farm literally anything than in Warframe, so even Diablo 3 is a joke to its former self, like warframe is compared to what it once was before. So just a friendly advice, if you come up with an example, then come up with a good one.

Have a nice day!

pre-RoS Diablo 3 was definitely a lot more grindy than Diablo 3 is now! That said, Blizzard was so clever that they packaged up 6 piece sets to drop so commonly and be so increadibly powerful that most people were satisfied with playing with 6 piece sets. But you see, I got bored with 6 piece sets... I started to play Legacy of Nightmares (and now they've buffed LoN to be more powerful than many sets! A year after I left...). You need 13 ancient pieces to fully benefit from Legacy of Nightmares and that's where Diablo 3 is far more grindy than Warframe. Because now you really need to visit Kanai's cube and re-roll legendaries ... with 5 types of crafting materials and 50 forgotten souls a pop (versus Warframe's single mat 'Kuva' which you can farm with boosters and Kavats!). I have made 3-4 mostly complete LoN builds between Necromancer and Wizard. I still don't have a good ancient amulet (that's a isn't a set amulet) for most of my LoN builds!

Diablo 3 may be more newbie friendly, but that's because the game explains itself and Warframe developers would rather you figure everything yourself. Once you start going for primal weapons, making LoN builds, upgrading legendary gems, looking for Staff of Herding/Rainbow Portrait/Cosmic Wings or even building up your paragon... this is where the grind really picks up... a lot... Special items like prime weapons and frames in Warframe? A piece of cake by comparison...

By the way, it's T16 now (yeah, I know, it's dumb...).

 

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yep scrubs who complain about how there lvl 20 enemies are dying too quickly and weapons/frames are running the fun, and how they don't get enough stuff sub 20 mins, yep scrubs who complain about how there lvl 20 enemies are dying to quickly, and how they don't get enough stuff sub 20 mins. wow warframe is a game about farming resources, it should take a few hours to get the resource to build something, not minutes. then the scrubs also quitting a few months into the game. BOI ruin it for everyone else then leave wtf wrong with you.

 

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On 2019-05-24 at 10:25 AM, Lutesque said:

Warframe rewards people randomly....

 

True. But you have to put the effort in to roll the dice. 😉

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6 hours ago, nslay said:

pre-RoS Diablo 3 was definitely a lot more grindy than Diablo 3 is now! That said, Blizzard was so clever that they packaged up 6 piece sets to drop so commonly and be so increadibly powerful that most people were satisfied with playing with 6 piece sets. But you see, I got bored with 6 piece sets... I started to play Legacy of Nightmares (and now they've buffed LoN to be more powerful than many sets! A year after I left...). You need 13 ancient pieces to fully benefit from Legacy of Nightmares and that's where Diablo 3 is far more grindy than Warframe. Because now you really need to visit Kanai's cube and re-roll legendaries ... with 5 types of crafting materials and 50 forgotten souls a pop (versus Warframe's single mat 'Kuva' which you can farm with boosters and Kavats!). I have made 3-4 mostly complete LoN builds between Necromancer and Wizard. I still don't have a good ancient amulet (that's a isn't a set amulet) for most of my LoN builds!

Diablo 3 may be more newbie friendly, but that's because the game explains itself and Warframe developers would rather you figure everything yourself. Once you start going for primal weapons, making LoN builds, upgrading legendary gems, looking for Staff of Herding/Rainbow Portrait/Cosmic Wings or even building up your paragon... this is where the grind really picks up... a lot... Special items like prime weapons and frames in Warframe? A piece of cake by comparison...

By the way, it's T16 now (yeah, I know, it's dumb...).

 

Still, grinding my LoN monks gear felt less of a hassle (but I agree, that its the hardest gear to grind in D3, since it involves the most RNG). And after Blizz buffed the class sets, there was no point to go for LoN anymore. I don't know what is the situation now, since the season theme is the LoN set, but its just 1 thing either you care about or don't. D3 for me now is in a state where I just check the season reward and if the cosmetic is something I like, I will go for it, if not, then I skip it. D3 is just like Warframe for me, lost its charm and fun factor.

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On 2019-05-24 at 3:09 PM, Ceanmunt said:

Why should that change?

Because DE thought they can get more players this way.

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I don't mind getting stuff QUICKER. Time spent =/= skill or effort. Grinding is not why i come to play. There's so much you can do with the item once you've acquired it, there's really little need to put such huge barriers on their retrieval.

What i will agree with is when it comes to getting stuff EASIER. It is SO easy to complete  anything in this game, everything feels like a participation award vs an actual reward. I remember in the 2015 days, you'd be in the void for 2-3 hours grinding for 1 part. As much as we hated the time spent, we got to take our maxed out gear (at the time) and fight level 500-1000 enemies, really trying hard to stay alive and get to the next rotation.

We communicated, did cool combos, we struggled, and when we got what we were looking for, if the game didn't crash, we'd leave triumphant. Keep in mind, this is 2015 gear, pre- second dream. If you wanna get an idea of how much more powerful we are now, look at any melee build from before second dream and compare to the builds of today.

I hate how easy everything is now. It has become dull and if there was a way to finally get back to that feeling, without the time spent and without the whiney entitled snowflakes arguing about it. Life would be a few steps better for this game.

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On 2019-05-25 at 10:44 AM, nslay said:

pre-RoS Diablo 3 was definitely a lot more grindy than Diablo 3 is now! That said, Blizzard was so clever that they packaged up 6 piece sets to drop so commonly and be so increadibly powerful that most people were satisfied with playing with 6 piece sets. But you see, I got bored with 6 piece sets... I started to play Legacy of Nightmares (and now they've buffed LoN to be more powerful than many sets! A year after I left...). You need 13 ancient pieces to fully benefit from Legacy of Nightmares and that's where Diablo 3 is far more grindy than Warframe. Because now you really need to visit Kanai's cube and re-roll legendaries ... with 5 types of crafting materials and 50 forgotten souls a pop (versus Warframe's single mat 'Kuva' which you can farm with boosters and Kavats!). I have made 3-4 mostly complete LoN builds between Necromancer and Wizard. I still don't have a good ancient amulet (that's a isn't a set amulet) for most of my LoN builds!

Diablo 3 may be more newbie friendly, but that's because the game explains itself and Warframe developers would rather you figure everything yourself. Once you start going for primal weapons, making LoN builds, upgrading legendary gems, looking for Staff of Herding/Rainbow Portrait/Cosmic Wings or even building up your paragon... this is where the grind really picks up... a lot... Special items like prime weapons and frames in Warframe? A piece of cake by comparison...

By the way, it's T16 now (yeah, I know, it's dumb...).

 

Justifying a bad grind with another, even worse grind is a poor argument. Just because you played Diablo doesn't mean the grind is justified in Warframe when the only thing that's linking the games is their genre. Different games, different audiences, if only slightly. Just because one FPS game has a trash shooting mechanic doesn't mean another FPS with a slightly better shooting mechanic has a good shooting mechanic overall. It's only good in comparison.

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56 minutes ago, Slush_Magic said:

Justifying a bad grind with another, even worse grind is a poor argument. Just because you played Diablo doesn't mean the grind is justified in Warframe when the only thing that's linking the games is their genre. Different games, different audiences, if only slightly. Just because one FPS game has a trash shooting mechanic doesn't mean another FPS with a slightly better shooting mechanic has a good shooting mechanic overall. It's only good in comparison.

I'm not trying to argue. I am laughing at you complainers. Diablo 3 is reputed to be a very easy newbie friendly game. You can find that sentiment reflected in this very thread. I'm telling you that the Warframe grind is already easy (even easier than a reputed easy game!). I am exclaiming that, for example, 2% is huge (because on the time scale of attempts, we're talking usually no more than days or weeks! if that...). The problem is that you and others have an expectation to have everything now. Well let me tell you... amidst all the complaints about the "predatory" unvaulting of Loki and Volt Prime... a casual newbie player like me (and I started in December 2018) got Volt Prime, Loki Prime, Bo Prime, Wyrm Prime, Odonata Prime in about 2 weeks. I am not a Veteran. I have no idea about many things in this game! I was able to do it surprisingly fast despite all the relics being in the void! It is so amusing to see people complaining about the "grind". Not only that, I have collected all the events exclusives, all unvaulted prime frames and weapons since I first started this game in December 2018... It's very reasonable (if not easy!)! And you're complaining about a grind? Are you kidding me? How can somebody like me consistently get all this stuff if the grind is so hard or impossible?

The way I see it... the Ephemera farmers have ground to stand. A 0.5% drop rate implies thousands of attempts... and if each attempt takes 15-20 minutes (e.g. Exploiter Orb)... well yeah. That's a lot of time! I feel their pain! Relic farming and using void traces to change the distribution? Relatively tame, man! Running Naeglar or Spy missions to get Ivara or the 60/60 mods? The 5% drop rate is pretty tame man! I think it took me a few days to farm Lua Spy for Scattering Inferno (and I got several copies of Ivara while doing these kinds of things!). I don't know what to tell you.... My experience is that it's been pretty easy to reasonable to grind this game. But I guess my perspective is grinding games like DIablo 2/3 (and Diablo 2 is a lot harder than 3 for grinding).

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On 2019-05-24 at 2:09 AM, Ceanmunt said:

Trying to understand the current element of entitlement people feel they deserve. Combing through Reddit, i usually do this for mechanics discussions and such, Warframe's Reddit is unfortunately just filled with thread after thread of people complaining and whinging over the most basic of things. Currently we are on the "game is unplayable because Hydroid/Khora/Nekros don't stack now". Before this we had threads of how drop chances should all be raised to 5-10% minimums, how items should be easier to get, frames easier to get, Nightwave easier to complete.

What is with this? How does being handed everything in game give you satisfaction or make a game more playable to you? Why is it you can't be arsed to work for the rewards? Why do you feel entitled to get something, because someone else got it? This new resource is a good start, people want more of it straight away. It should drop more frequently, the rewards of it in between rounds should be doubled/tripled/quadrupled etc etc. Why? I needed to build Wisp, so what did i do? I played the game for 30-45 minutes and already had enough materials for her. Now while i'm researching the weapons i reckon i'll get enough resources to build that. Without any numbers being raised. Why is that so hard?

How far do we need to go before the game just gives you every item when you log in now? Why must we take what little challenge we get and remove it. 60 minute Survival is another good example. Why should that change? Because some people can't/won't do it? Now it's 30 minutes for next season. Could probably solo that now. But yeah, those people can now get everything, isn't that awesome?

Just not seeing why we are listening or even still, caving into these people that continuously want everything made easier or just given to them.

 

/end rant.

60min was just boring for me not challenging i don't mind 30min at all what is challenging is understanding how to mod your frame and weapons to be efficient, changing it to 30 mins in a survival without dying or getting downed would be sufficient in weeding out those who most likely couldn't solo and most people who can would find it easier to solo then to go out of their way to recruit for it since the extra people just served as more enemy spawners 

loot not stacking ngl i'm a bit dissapointed if they are going to do this they have to rethink the items in the game that are below .1% drop rate I repeat point one percent (Bite and condition overload) been playing for years and ravage only dropped for me a couple of months into the fortuna release might as well embrace loot stacking and allow us to get these mods easier if they don't plan on buffing the drop chances

new resource is good as well as long as it's not the only resource required and it mixes old ones as well which they've always done has always been a good thing

 

 

 

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14 hours ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

I don't mind getting stuff QUICKER. Time spent =/= skill or effort. Grinding is not why i come to play. There's so much you can do with the item once you've acquired it, there's really little need to put such huge barriers on their retrieval.

What i will agree with is when it comes to getting stuff EASIER. It is SO easy to complete  anything in this game, everything feels like a participation award vs an actual reward. I remember in the 2015 days, you'd be in the void for 2-3 hours grinding for 1 part. As much as we hated the time spent, we got to take our maxed out gear (at the time) and fight level 500-1000 enemies, really trying hard to stay alive and get to the next rotation.

We communicated, did cool combos, we struggled, and when we got what we were looking for, if the game didn't crash, we'd leave triumphant. Keep in mind, this is 2015 gear, pre- second dream. If you wanna get an idea of how much more powerful we are now, look at any melee build from before second dream and compare to the builds of today.

I hate how easy everything is now. It has become dull and if there was a way to finally get back to that feeling, without the time spent and without the whiney entitled snowflakes arguing about it. Life would be a few steps better for this game.

I feel like I missed out on some cool gaming experiences. :sad:

I think its going to take a while before DE figure out how to rebalance the game and bring back that level of challenge...hope you've got a nice comfy seat. :wink:

 

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What do you mean " current " ?

I believe you ment to say eternal .

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Thread has failed to remain constructive and respectful.

Both positive feedback and constructive negative feedback is needed to improve the game, a lot of the improvements that we all enjoy might not have happened if people didn't leave constructive negative feedback.

Also meta-complaints which is complaining about other users complaining and ranting are not helpful and offer no constructive feedback.

Closing.

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