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Duobyte

Feedback on the recent looting change with Nekros/Hydroid etc.

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7 hours ago, Duobyte said:

Has literally no one noticed this change? Haven't seen a single topic on the forums about it so I will start my own. This was put in patch notes as a "fix" when it is a straight up nerf.

So what this means is that Nekros cannot desecrate enemies stuck in hydroid/khora abilities, essentially nerfing the double dip combo for maximum farming that has existed for years now.

What made DE suddenly have a change of heart and make this "bug fix". Is farming loot faster bad for the game? Whats next? Smeeta not stacking with resource boosters? 

 

Please don't let this go unnoticed. This is a huge nerf for a game based on collecting loot that was put in the patch notes as a minor "fix".

Just so you know, they had released notes like a month after pilfering swarm was originally released about how they didn't want desecrate and pilfering to be interacting the way that they were, because it was allowing for way too much resource gain.  The "nerf" you're complaining about was merely fixing a bug that's existed since the khora pilfer update.  For the last few years you haven't been able to stack desecrate with pilfering, as was intended.

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48 minutes ago, CrossVs said:

I also do not understand why a Kubrow has to be nerfed in this conflict either. Poor things..

Chesa's precept is literally a copy/past of desecrate(it is able to roll hp orbs unlike hydroid/khora/atlas) with reduced % chance/cooldown time and khora's is a copy/paste of hydroids with reduced % chance of his.  They were never meant to interact as such, like my previous reply to the op.

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I do think this should be corrected, but not by increasing the drop rates.

You gotta realize that the Hema isn't the only thing that requires mutagen samples to research.

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I would say Hydroid, Khora, Loki and Rhino

Loki to disarm so they all run to you, Rhino so enemies die quicker. Khora+Hydroid for loot if those two still works together

If not I would say just Hydroid and Rhino, Loki and Nova. 2 Buff so you kill more in exchange for less avg loot per kill.

However the best IMO on a coordinated squad is Hydroid+Ivara+Loki+fourth frame (Buff, 2nd Ivara, Nova).

Found this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SchfvxDtx6c, there's a guide in the description, however Ivara is running two Arcane Energize in the build b/c she has high duration and range for very quick loot steal, so your mileage may vary. The guide seems to be using pull mechanics (Zenurik Pull/Magus Anomaly to concentrate enemies), and a bait frame standing in the open to get melee and disarmed enemies to run to the bait consistently. Loki could attract enemies with his Decoy, or the fourth frame would have to be tanky to bait enemies, which in the video is a 100% range Nekros.

 

 

 

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Please DE just give back Desecrate+Pilfering, that combo has been out for so long it's written in its history among hundreds of warframe guides, to think none of those will apply now sheesh. I understand the pets triple dipping on the combo was overkill, but just desc+pilf didn't harm anyone.

but IDK if hydroid+khora works, thought one would override the other with the ragdoll or something.

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2 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

It's a bad move.

And it's pretty dishonest to classify this as a fix.

 

Honestly? Trash the Hydroid and Khora augments and give them something worthwhile instead.

Honestly, loot should be increased across the board, and loot abilities shouldn't be a thing.

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2 hours ago, mac10smg-ToaOfGreen said:

You gotta realize that the Hema isn't the only thing that requires mutagen samples to research.

Sure although the Hema uses about 10X more than all the other research items combine. It's not just about MS as other resources benefit from the combo.  

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what? have I missed something? since when dont they work together?

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6 minutes ago, Kyoresh said:

what? have I missed something? since when dont they work together?

Just when they put in Jovian update.

 

Quote

 

Fixed Chesa/Desecrate double dipping with Hydroid/Khora.

  • **Added info: When we added the Nightwave challenge for the Silver Grove, we encouraged a return to content that normally would have been fine. A small handful of players found an exploit and as we looked into things, we thought we fixed the issue with the new Chesa behavior that could lead to problems. We didn't. We decided to cut a bit deeper. Ivara's looting ability is now the only one that stacks with other looting because it works while alive. If a target is dead, a successful loot now happens once, no matter the source. However, multiple can attempt to loot the same body. Yes... this is different from how it previously behaved, but this is the new intended behavior.

 

 

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Wait... im confused... the reason they nerfed Pilfercrate was because people found a way to make the Silver Grove Grind Less Annoying ?

This is Universal Vacuum all over again... 😞

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I would probably say speedva over loki, 

 

And the lack of synergy between the fees now is sad. 

It was one of those peanut butter and jelly combos, now the peanut butter has gone bad. 

Can't enjoy it together anymore. 

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13 hours ago, Alaeacus said:

Edit:  My post above was its own thread in General Discussion, which a mod merged into here.  I guess they are trying to hide exposure to this "Fix" by dumping it into General Feedback where nobody goes.  

Edit Edit:  Because they aren't approving my reply, I will post it here:  

 General Discussion is designed to promote discussion among the normal player base, and it is the easiest way to get exposure on an issue.  If you deny that fact, you're being disingenuous.  People do not casually frequent the "General Feedback" discussion for conversation and commentary.  My post was intent on starting a discussion, something that isn't happening right now in General "Discussion".   

You obviously haven't been in the forums very long, otherwise you would know DE doesn't actively pay attention to our check anything in General Discussion. Feedback is where you always post of it's something you want DE to see

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16 hours ago, Duobyte said:

Someone on bug report forums told me to make a post about this in general discussion subforum so I guess I might as well do it to make this more visible. Hopefully this doesn't count as a spam.

Has literally no one noticed this change? Haven't seen a single topic on the forums about it so I will start my own. This was put in patch notes as a "fix" when it is a straight up nerf.

So what this means is that Nekros cannot desecrate enemies stuck in hydroid/khora abilities, essentially nerfing the double dip combo for maximum farming that has existed for years now.

What made DE suddenly have a change of heart and make this "bug fix". Is farming loot faster bad for the game? Whats next? Smeeta not stacking with resource boosters? 

 

Please don't let this go unnoticed. This is a huge nerf for a game based on collecting loot that was put in the patch notes as a minor "fix".

The best part is that this makes Nekros and Khora's farming mods essentially pointless. Because they can't be combined, Hydroid is the only real option to pick because he's a 100% vs the relatively pitiful 65% for Khora or 54% for Nekros. Hydroid is easier to get than either of those other two, and has a better pilfer...

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Looting aside, I'm really annoyed at the teamwork nerf. This game already discourages cooperation, are we trying to kill it for good? I feel like all newer frames are designed with solo experience in mind, not only there are no synergies between different frames, frequently they act against each other. The only coop part that's left is shared affinity - and that just encourages leeching.

Resource farming squads were one of the few opportunities to truly work together and socialize. Now I fear it's going to be Nekros + DPS + 2 leeches.

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17 hours ago, Alaeacus said:

Pilfer Hydroid and Desecrate Nekros no longer stack for loot farming purposes.  Why is nobody here on the forums talking about this?  I only see Redditors bringing this up.  

https://old.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/bryqzd/plea_to_reverse_fixes_to_farming/?st=jw0wj3tk&sh=35839a8c

Update 25 Fixes:

  • Fixed Chesa Retrieve double dipping with Nekros’ Desecrate.
  • Fixed Chesa/Desecrate double dipping with Hydroid/Khora.

DE even classified it as a "Fix", even though it is clearly a nerf to a long-time game mechanic.  They exponentially increased the grind for building materials in this one "Fix".  

Discuss.

Edit:  My post above was its own thread in General Discussion, which a mod merged into here.  I guess they are trying to hide exposure to this "Fix" by dumping it into General Feedback where nobody goes.  

Edit Edit:  Because they aren't approving my reply, I will post it here:  

General Discussion is designed to promote discussion among the normal player base, and it is the easiest way to get exposure on an issue.  If you deny that fact, you're being disingenuous.  People do not casually frequent the "General Feedback" discussion for conversation and commentary.  My post was intent on starting a discussion, something that isn't happening right now in General "Discussion".  

Also, they merge all our posts underneath an Subject Headline that is vague and doesn't immediately speak to the issue.  My post was about the Nekros incompatibility with Khora/Hydroid.  My post was merged into a thread about needing more Mutagen Samples.  Dumb.

Because forbid negative feedback, it will bring the white knights out.

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14 hours ago, ReshyShira said:

This isn't a fix, this is a nerf.  What's the purpose of this except as a way to increase the grind in warframe?

hasnt that been the focus of warframe ever since they started on "bigger, better and more time consuming content", there has been nothing but an increase to timegating/grind, this should come as zero surprise tbh.

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 So reading some of the new threads about the current update I keep seeing mention of looting nerfs. Can people please explain what has changed.

 Thank you to anyone willing to post on this subject.

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Nekros Desecrate no longer works with Hydroid or Khora. 

Basically, dead enemies can be looted once, period, no matter what combo of frames you have. Only Ivara can stack with Nekros/Chesa Kubrow/Hydroid/Khora, because she loots while they're alive. 

They justify it by the fact that you could multi-loot Silver Grove specters, and they decided to disable looting power stacking, rather than a narrow fix to the specters. 

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Yeah, the irony in the nerf is that they keep saying they're trying to reduce the grindy nature of parts of the game... then increase the gind of arguably the most grindy aspect of the game lol. 

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Something very few ever did got removed and now everyone who will never do it because they're overstocked are blowing it out of proportion becasue others who will probably never do it no longer can.

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6 minutes ago, Ver1dian said:

Something very few ever did got removed and now everyone who will never do it because they're overstocked are blowing it out of proportion becasue others who will probably never do it no longer can.

it would be more accurate to say

"Something very few ever did (ie efficiently farm specters) caused DE to revisit looting mechanics and nerfed what MANY people currently do (ie nekros+hydroid for general farming) and now people are sadface."

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6 minutes ago, Ver1dian said:

Something very few ever did got removed and now everyone who will never do it because they're overstocked are blowing it out of proportion becasue others who will probably never do it no longer can.

Saves me posting more, thanks.

Just now, (XB1)Tucker D Dawg said:

MANY people currently do (ie nekros+hydroid) 

Cognitive bias.

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2 minutes ago, Ced23Ric said:

Cognitive bias.

Observed behavior over large sample size is not the same as cognitive bias.

Personally, I don't care about the loot - I don't need any resources other than ones they haven't yet introduced.  But if you are suggesting that Nekros+Hydroid was not a common strategy for those that actually DO need to farm things - well, I don't know what to say to you.

 

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Just now, (XB1)Tucker D Dawg said:

Observed behavior over large sample size is not the same as cognitive bias.

Show me the data, then. What's a "large" sample size? We're talking over 26 million registered losers, and 250,000 concurrently active users.

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4 minutes ago, Ced23Ric said:

 What's a "large" sample size?

1500+.  

1500 consecutive examples from a controlled environment is the minimum you'd need to have a reasonable confidence in your data. Hanging out in PuGs and sorta/kinda paying attention doesn't count. 

That said, I can't say as I care one way or the other. I never bothered with the loot enhancement 'frames or abilities and still accumulated far more than I'd ever need fairly quickly. Tempest in a teapot. 

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