Feedback on the recent looting change with Nekros/Hydroid etc.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

13 minutes ago, Ein0r said:

But it doesn't make sense?

Oh crud. 😲

 

I mean... Of course it makes no sense my fellow Kool-Aid drinker. Mmmm mmmm, I sure do love me some good old salt in my daily hydration rations. 

This whole issue is clearly not a simple case of an exploit getting fixed. Have you seen that trailer for, Antho? I too have been thinking about changing sides to join my fellow elite Tenno in Antho because my rare purchases leaving this game would be something that will be immediately flagged in the accounting department. 

And all because I am no longer allowed to use an exploit, that I never used before, and was unlikely to ever go out of my way to use. How dare they make changes to the game that would make balancing loot drops across the board simpler? Hmmm all of this ranting is making my salt levels drop, I am going to go find more salty Kool-Aid like a good YouTube watching drone. 

Spoiler

/s. 

 

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Tucker D Dawg said:

It is valid since I used the term "many".  I have seen many groups running with the double loot strategy.  I have seen many groups recruiting for the same.  I never claimed all, a set percentage, or any thing else.  Many in my case happens to mean hundreds.  I have personally participated in hundreds. that to me is "many". I have only seen and played with a small subset of the active players, and fewer still of the registered players, but have seen many people using or wanting to use a double loot group to reduce the grind. I am sure than many more people I have NOT played with, nor seen have done the same.  

but again, you divert from the original point - and that was that the post I quoted was not even close to an accurate description of the complaints. 

If you are suggesting that NO ONE (not a single person or group) used Nekros+hydroid/khora/atlas whatever for farming, you are delusional.  If you admit SOME people did and would like to continue to do so, then you also admit they have a valid complaint.  

It still isnt valid because it doesnt tell us anything specific. Sure you might have been in several groups, but how many times have you happened to run with the same people without actually noticing?

While yeah there are people that have used it, no doubt about it, I'm one of those people myself. But that doesnt mean that all people complaining have used it just as it doesnt mean that everyone that has used it complains. I think there are far many that complain without ever having used it or plan to because it is far more popular to complain than anything else. I mean how many threads did we get regarding 2FA from people that had zero clues about what it ment? Pretty much every single on of them. How many threads did we have regarding Revenant before people had even gotten their hands on him, aswell as people complaining afterwards about things that had already been fixed? Too many.

So I'm not suprised it is the same here, whining just because they can or because their big e-celeb idol said so.

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

15 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

t still isnt valid because it doesnt tell us anything specific. Sure you might have been in several groups, but how many times have you happened to run with the same people without actually noticing?

While yeah there are people that have used it, no doubt about it, I'm one of those people myself. But that doesnt mean that all people complaining have used it just as it doesnt mean that everyone that has used it complains. I think there are far many that complain without ever having used it or plan to because it is far more popular to complain than anything else. I mean how many threads did we get regarding 2FA from people that had zero clues about what it ment? Pretty much every single on of them. How many threads did we have regarding Revenant before people had even gotten their hands on him, aswell as people complaining afterwards about things that had already been fixed? Too many.

So I'm not suprised it is the same here, whining just because they can or because their big e-celeb idol said so.

What even are you trying to argue here? What are you defending? I'll make myself as clear as I can, and try to lower the bar a bit since it keeps going over your head.

1. People are complaining that the changes to the looting interaction between nekros/hydroid/khora/atlas etc have been changed.
2. They are complaining that the aforementioned change hurts their farming efforts for general items (not specter drops).
 

Furthermore, my post was in direct response to this:

Quote

Something very few ever did got removed and now everyone who will never do it because they're overstocked are blowing it out of proportion becasue others who will probably never do it no longer can.

I suggest you read it again.  You attack me for using the term many - a term I still stand by - that MANY people farmed using nekros+hydroid for toroids/poly/whatever the efff…  Yet ignore what I was addressing - a post that is clearly referring to people "exploiting" (which is bs terminology to begin with) mechanics to get mods from specters, continuing to claim its getting blown out of proportion and implying they (the complainers) are complaining on behalf a yet a third party.  I also don't see you attacking him for using "very few" and "others who will probably never..."  What screw is loose in your head?

You are making ASSumptions they are complaining simply to complain or that they blindly follow some youboober?  You attack me for stating - factually I might add, that I have both seen and participated in hundreds of groups using hydroid+nekros.  I did over 100 farming runs using this combo for toroids alone (before they introduced the larger valued spiderboss ones).  Years ago, I used this combo when I needed polymer bundles.  and hundreds of times in between for various resources or to help others get resources.  No, I haven't complained about the nerf (yes I have a PC account too) - it doesn't bother me enough to complain about since I don't need this stuff.  But I can understand the frustration coming from people who used to use it and would still like to.   I don't believe they are complaining just for the sake of it.  You on the other hand, seem to want to dismiss or belittle them just for the sake of it - providing no argument in favor of the nerf.

 

Edited May 24, 2019 by (XB1)Tucker D Dawg

[Ein0r]

vor 22 Minuten schrieb SneakyErvin:

I think there are far many that complain without ever having used it or plan to because it is far more popular to complain than anything else. I mean how many threads did we get regarding 2FA from people that had zero clues about what it ment? Pretty much every single on of them. How many threads did we have regarding Revenant before people had even gotten their hands on him, aswell as people complaining afterwards about things that had already been fixed? Too many.

So I'm not suprised it is the same here, whining just because they can or because their big e-celeb idol said so.

There are also many people who use it but dont read patch notes. When is next Nightwave? Where is the Flydolon? Why can't I play the Flydolon mission? etc...

And of course his "many use it" is a valid point. Demanding anything that goes beyond that from a normal user to prove his point is just not providable. Imagine he would go out and do 20 Pilfercrate runs and compare it with his experiences from pre nerf runs, you would still be unhappy because a sample size of 20 is just too small. Also nobody really complains about DE fixing the Specetre exploit, but the run of the mill orokin cell farm parties and whatever else there is  to farm in this manner.

Your Revenant argument is also not a good counter argument. Revenant was anounced, Revenant was something for people to aquire in the first place. Players were interested to get their hands on them. Same with 2FA. People want to trade and had to deal with the 2FA trade restriction. Of course they are more vocal about it because they were confronted with it on a direct basis, whereas the loot aquisition nerf was hidden in a seemingly infinite list of fixes in the patch notes.

Edited May 24, 2019 by Ein0r

[EvilChaosKnight]

All I can say.
RIP all future Hema farmers. Enjoy even less mutagen sample drops than before.

[SneakyErvin]

9 minutes ago, (XB1)Tucker D Dawg said:

What even are you trying to argue here? What are you defending? I'll make myself as clear as I can, and try to lower the bar a bit since it keeps going over your head.

1. People are complaining that the changes to the looting interaction between nekros/hydroid/khora/atlas etc have been changed.
2. They are complaining that the aforementioned change hurts their farming efforts for general items (not specter drops).
 

Furthermore, my post was in direct response to this:

I suggest you read it again.  You attack me for using the term many - a term I still stand by - that MANY people farmed using nekros+hydroid for toroids/poly/whatever the efff…  Yet ignore what I was addressing - a post that is clearly referring to people "exploiting" (which is bs terminology to begin with) mechanics to get mods from specters, continuing to claim its getting blown out of proportion and implying they (the complainers) are complaining on behalf a yet a third party.  I also don't see you attacking him for using "very few" and "others who will probably never..."  What screw is loose in your head?

You are making ASSumptions they are complaining simply to complain or that they blindly follow some youboober?  You attack me for stating - factually I might add, that I have both seen and participated in hundreds of groups using hydroid+nekros.  I did over 100 farming runs using this combo for toroids alone (before they introduced the larger valued spiderboss ones).  Years ago, I used this combo when I needed polymer bundles.  and hundreds of times in between for various resources or to help others get resources.  No, I haven't complained about the nerf (yes I have a PC account too) - it doesn't bother me enough to complain about since I don't need this stuff.  But I can understand the frustration coming from people who used to use it and would still like to.   I don't believe they are complaining just for the sake of it.  You on the other hand, seem to want to dismiss or belittle them just for the sake of it - providing no argument in favor of the nerf.

 

You are correct, the same should apply for using a term like "very few". We dont know how many actually used it, we do however know that people love to be vocal and critical for the sake of being vocal and critical towards things. I dont say everyone is that way, but with the trend these days, complaining for the sake of complaining is what many people do, no matter the platform or media. And as I pointed out, we've seen it plently on the forums over the last year.

10 minutes ago, Ein0r said:

There are also many people who use it but dont read patch notes. When is next Nightwave? Where is the Flydolon? Why can't I play the Flydolon mission? etc...

And of course his "many use it" is a valid point. Demanding anything that goes beyond that from a normal user to prove his point is just not providable. Imagine he would go out and do 20 Pilfercrate runs and compare it with his experiences from pre nerf runs, you would still be unhappy because a sample size of 20 is just too small. Your Revenant argument is also not a good counter argument. Revenant was anounced, Revenant was something for people to aquire in the first place. They were interested to get their hands on them. Same with 2FA. People want to trade and had to deal with the 2FA trade restriction. Of course they are more vocal about it because they were confronted with it on a direct basis, wherease the loot aquisition nerf was hidden in a seemingly infinite list of fixes in the patch notes.

That isnt my point regarding Rev though. I'm talking about the several threads we had where people complained on his skills before even testing him out, how this and that was bad cos it didnt do that specific thing they wanted in their extreme outlier build. Or the console players that complained about how this and that skill needed a fix or change, something they had snapped up from a YT video, things that were already changed etc.

And the people complaining about 2FA didnt do it much because of the trade restriction, people claimed they had to go through extra hoops everytime they logged in, or that they were shafted cos they didnt have a cellphone etc. All things that could be avoided by having basic reading comprehension and an attention span longer than 10sec. My point was simply that people prefer to complain no matter what.

[TARINunit9]

4 hours ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

The Silver Grove looting exploit (their term) was their specific, stated reason for making this change. It's in the patch notes. 

 

From the patch notes:

**Added info: When we added the Nightwave challenge for the Silver Grove, we encouraged a return to content that normally would have been fine. A small handful of players found an exploit and as we looked into things, we thought we fixed the issue with the new Chesa behavior that could lead to problems. We didn't. We decided to cut a bit deeper. Ivara's looting ability is now the only one that stacks with other looting because it works while alive. If a target is dead, a successful loot now happens once, no matter the source. However, multiple can attempt to loot the same body. Yes... this is different from how it previously behaved, but this is the new intended behavior.

Yes. And it doesn't really change my perception of your complaints. 

DE be like "ok we never intended you to be able to loot a corpse four times, and during Nightwave's Silver Grove challenge we learned you were doing exactly that" and you are all like "why are you punishing us for something only 0.0000001% do?" and I am all like "it was way more common than you are letting on, ever farmed for Toroids?"

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

6 hours ago, LSG501 said:

Yeah, the irony in the nerf is that they keep saying they're trying to reduce the grindy nature of parts of the game... then increase the gind of arguably the most grindy aspect of the game lol. 

Too much common sense from this one

[Kothophed]

3 hours ago, peterc3 said:

Previously overlooked synergy in the game is brought to the forefront when new content is designed and added to the game. Anything from bugs to unintended usage of abilities is ultimately a flaw in their design of the game that would be fixed when it becomes important to fix.

This is how it's gone numerous times before and it will happen again. If they wanted to drive boosters, they'd just completely cut loot rates across the board. This is Vex Armor 2: Electric Boogaloo and the feigned shock and pain from those who should know better by now is quite something to watch.

 

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

We dont know how many actually used it, we do however know that people love to be vocal and critical for the sake of being vocal and critical towards things.

 

3 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Shhhhh. Stop making sense. If you talk like that they're going to demand that you start using more salt when you mix your Kool-Aid. 

Just do what the rest of us do and take notes of the names. You'll be seeing some of them, a LOT. 

Y'all've done much criticism of our motives, but explained your own little.  Allow me to clarify my own, hopefully to y'alls satisfaction. Perhaps then do me the courtesy in kind of revealing yours.  My fellow players and I are more individuals than a faction, and ought be addressed in their individual concerns, not some perceived group identity.  I do not think Warframe is "rU1n3d FoReVah!", I like DE, haven't seen any Youtube videos on the subject (mostly because I find the youtubers' meta-commentary dull if not condescending) and seldom join these complaint threads.  I am here, because I like DE in large part.  I like how they respond to player concerns, and are willing to revisit their mistakes.  I like how they keep Warframe truly free to play, and not freemium misery.  So, when I noticed a change that incrementally worsened the game, by increasing disliked grind and reducing variety of play in a popular mission, I wanted to contribute my feelings as a player.  Not necessarily so that I myself would be heard, but to be part of the contingent advocating revision of this change. 

As I stated before, I've been playing long enough that quantity of loot extracted matters little to me personally, especially as it may be a small difference; However, this shift will detriment variety of play, with Nekros already returning to consensus best-in-slot.  Ere this change, you could bring Atlas, Hydroid, Ivara if you were good, Khora, and they all brought something different and played differently.  That diversity and lack of a hard meta continued to permit innovation and variation for those that wanted to explore.  With a clear optimum, however, players become far more rigid and myopic.  We have seen this many times before.  You may counter that this is a playerbase issue, and not a dev one, but if the devs are able to remedy it, it would be best for them to do so, for the benefit of all. It may be minor, but everything is.  Things are improved not by sweeping revision, but individual augment, and when long-running games like this fall, it is often an accumulation of minor misteps that fells them.

Now that I have explained where I'm coming from, permit me to ask as to y'all's motivations.  What do you gain from this update?  Does this benefit some strategy you'd hoped to see played more?  Does it increase the value of some tradeables you have?  Does it stop or mitigate an aspect you found annoying or unfun in your play?  Is there some other reason why you stand to win from this fix remaining in the game as is?  I'm asking sincerely, because I'll admit my own picture is imperfect, and their may be some facet I have missed. 

Perhaps you do not stand to gain, and your motives are more altruistic.  Have you come to bring evidence to an admittedly anecdotal pool of experience?  If so, present it.  Y'all've done a lot of criticism of anecdote, but have little evidential counter beyond that; anecdotal evidence is better than no evidence.  If you mean to defend DE, defend the parts of them that make them so great, their receptiveness to critique and creative solutions; allow those to flourish.  Defend their motives, but allow those negatively impacted by the fix to explain their case.  This does not harm DE, this is not an insult against them but an invitation to improve.  If that is hostile, then so too are those who post new warframe, weapon and whatever concepts in the hopes that their ideas might advance the game.

If you are just a popcorn-eater, detachedly watching the circus unfold, why do you interject?  If you mean to goad us frenzied sheeple into a more amusing fervor, get better bait.  This is weak.  Seriously. 

If you stand to gain nothing, but simply act to your own detriment in the hopes of harming another, you are the worst kind of petty.  By making those who have been set back by this change out to be a small, ignorable cohort of troublemakers, you reduce the odds of us being heard and making the game better.  I doubt if you are such you will have the vertebra to admit it, but please do, if nothing else as another act of pointless spite, to show me how wasted this wall was on your screen.  

If [Other] please explain: _____________________________________________

Sorry for the textwall, wanted to be precise and cover all my points.
TLDR: I'm critiquing this "fix" because I want Warframe to be the best game it can be.  What're your motivations for arguing against me?

Edited May 24, 2019 by Kothophed

[SneakyErvin]

23 minutes ago, Kothophed said:

-snip-

I simply made a point regarding people prefering to be critical and complain alot for no reason. I didnt say there was no reason. But then again, I doubt people have even tried to adapt to the new rules.

A simple shift in group composition will probably get material farming back to where it was. Just grab a Frost and some Nekros. No RNG on dismemberment, the only restriction is the amount of corpses a Nekros can desecrate at any given time. Sure you wont get the 100% chance that Hydroid brings, but in return you will have 100% dismemberment and a far quicker killspeed since S#&$ isnt spread out or dangling to death.

 

Edited May 24, 2019 by SneakyErvin

[Ham_Grenabe]

1 hour ago, TARINunit9 said:

Yes. And it doesn't really change my perception of your complaints. 

DE be like "ok we never intended you to be able to loot a corpse four times, and during Nightwave's Silver Grove challenge we learned you were doing exactly that" and you are all like "why are you punishing us for something only 0.0000001% do?" and I am all like "it was way more common than you are letting on, ever farmed for Toroids?"

Yes, of course it was common, since it was intentional. The interaction was — as they say — the old intended behavior. The lack of interaction is the NEW intended behavior. 

Far as I’m concerned, they’re being very clear: it used to be okay, and after Silver Grove exploiting, it isn’t anymore. 

[(PSN)Lollybomb]

The weird thing is that I was under the impression that they already didn't stack.  As far as I knew the only reason to bring both a Nekros and a Hydroid for farming was so that Nekros could potentially get more drops from the enemies not in the tentacle swarm.  Tentacled enemies would guarantee extra loot from the swarm, but absolutely not be desecrated.

I guess I was informed wrong.  Oh well.  I don't play either of them.

[Melanholic7]

wnted to farm nano spores right before this nerf. Well, now i wont buy any resource booster untill they revert this. So,probably never

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 hour ago, Kothophed said:

 If [Other] please explain: _____________________________________________

Sorry for the textwall, wanted to be precise and cover all my points.
TLDR: I'm critiquing this "fix" because I want Warframe to be the best game it can be.  What're your motivations for arguing against me?

[Other] (But I want to commend you on those really nice strawman fallacies you made up all on your own for us to choose from, good job.)

If you look back at the comments on this thread you will see that there are some that humble brag about having thousands of hours of game time as experience. I didn't bother to point out why that was a ridiculous attempt to claim authority, because for the vast majority of those hours Khora didn't exist, nor did the recent change made to the Chesas. The game is evolving. Some changes will make aspects of it easier for us. Others will make them less so. Many of the people here admit willingly to having gained so much loot that they're probably never going to be able to use it all. That could suggest that parts of the game were too easy at some point. 

The specific combination of loot abilities were apparently allowing an unintended effect permitting us to collect far more loot than DE wanted when used in combination, and the only way to balance that while permitting the unintended effect is to reduce the drop rates. That of course means that anyone not in the specific combination of frames capable of exploiting it would lose out. I generally dislike the idea of things that benefit a small number of people a small amount of the time, at the cost of hurting a much larger number, a lot more of the time. By making this change they're probably hoping to set it up so that they can balance out the loot to more of us, more of the time. 

What you tried to tout as diversity, really wasn't particularly diverse, and a drop in the loot would make it so that we have to run a farming specific group if we'd like to have more rewards. Personally I found the organised farming group runs boring AF most of the time. With the changes I suspect that we'll end up with more diverse groups, since that particular meta has been disrupted, but only time will tell. 

There's been a change. People are pretending that it's the end of the world. They didn't do that for the previous changes. In fact they seem to be trying to pretend that those didn't exist at any point in time. Weird, huh? 

 

Now that you're better able to see why I hold these views, dear Tenno, can you see why I don't feel the need to drink a few gallons of the salty Kool-Aid with you? 

[Zeclem]

i like how some people keep defending this pointless change with dumb S#&$ like "most didnt use it anyway" or "people had to many resources" or "it wasnt intended", so lets adress them.

1-since those people at the start claimed that most did not use them, can they provide numbers that it wasnt a popular tactic? cus it was. with some clan techs being so expensive, anyone with a right mind would've used it, dont tell me it was unused especially when majority of the plyaerbase always used "meta" stuff. people use the S#&$ out of stuff like atterax but not hydroid? really?

2-just because some old time players have a lot of resources does not mean everybody has that kind of resources. my ghost clan had several veteran players with such amounts as well, but we still had to set up farming groups for hema.

3-it was very much intended. if that wasnt the case it wouldnt be a thing for years. and if de really just wanted to fix specter issues(lol) just change them directly instead of a blanket nerf like this. now its gonna be a lot more difficult to farm for hema. but hey, #*!% new clans/players i guess.

this change is gonna hurt farming speed and frame diversity. time to go back to those good old days of having wanting nothing but more nekros's on your team boys. 

Edited May 25, 2019 by Zeclem

[Ekzarcun]

Please DE revert the "fix" you know what happened to anthem's "fix" to loot right?Please DE revert the "fix" you know what happened to anthem's "fix" to loot right?

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

You sound like a supervillain...but it does hurt...hurts alot.

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

15 hours ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

I'm glad this happened.

Why?

Because you now feel the same way I felt when they took my void. I'm actually glad de did this to you. (Doesn't affect me because I never used the strat anyway..) 

Feel it. Just let it sink. That something you enjoyed is being taken away with just the snip of a finger.

The supervillain is not wrong...this nerf hurts...it hurts alot.

[Kothophed]

9 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

If you look back at the comments on this thread you will see that there are some that humble brag about having thousands of hours of game time as experience. 

As I stated, condemning anecdote rings facetious when you have no better pool of evidence to counter.  

9 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Some changes will make aspects of it easier for us. Others will make them less so. Many of the people here admit willingly to having gained so much loot that they're probably never going to be able to use it all. That could suggest that parts of the game were too easy at some point. 

If I'm reading this correctly, you are saying loot acquisition missions are too easy, and should be corrected. Resources should take longer and be harder to get.  Glad to know where your coming from.

 

[Ced23Ric]

Just in case some people didn't watch devstream #128; DE heard the complaints and will debate on what to do about this. Steve and Scott stated that they won't improv an approach on stream, but the feedback has been received.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 hour ago, Kothophed said:

As I stated, condemning anecdote rings facetious when you have no better pool of evidence to counter.  

Not particularly surprised that you didn't pay any attention to the counter that was made. I'm not offering any anecdote there, but pointing out that the catalyst for the change was a fairly recent change, which has been introduced just the other day and so the claim to authority is out. Even Khora is only months old. The very novelty of the things being discussed is what invalidates the whole "I'm a multi-year veteran who has thousands of hours under my belt". 

This game is always changing. If someone played 5 years ago, left and returned today, they'd find that quite a lot has changed. Heck just a few months have produced significant changes to some parts of the game. That player wouldn't have any special claim to authority in the current state of play based on playtime from years ago. 

Hence:

11 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

The game is evolving. Some changes will make aspects of it easier for us. Others will make them less so. 

Which you were kind enough to quote above, and you will notice does not contain any anecdotal evidence to counter the claim that it addressed, and the only personal anecdotal point that I can remember is when I mentioned that standing around afking during farms is boring as all heck. 

So it looks as though your issue isn't with what I wrote, but what you were expecting I'd write. (Maybe that's why you offered up those strawmen for us to choose from, instead of just waiting for an answer.) 

1 hour ago, Kothophed said:

If I'm reading this correctly, you are saying loot acquisition missions are too easy, and should be corrected. Resources should take longer and be harder to get.  Glad to know where your coming from.

You didn't read the updated build notes did you? That was literally what DE said when they called the combination an exploit and explained how the level of double dipping was unintended. 

As I stated in my post, and as others have stated in this thread, when combinations exist that can produce many times the intended number of drops, then DE ends up having to nerf the drop rate, or remove the mechanic that allows us to exploit the drop rates. 

Nerfing the drop rate negatively affects all players all of the time. This is apparently what you want. To make it harder for every single player not actively in a purpose built farming squad camping, all of the time. 

Good to know where you were coming from, it's probably going to save me time in the future. 

[___Grim___]

Poor Hydroid is going to the F tier trashcan to keep Vauban and Nyx company....his only use was in farming parties.

 

[RX-3DR]

It is a form of normalization which can lead to better baseline balancing in the long run. If we had this constantly stack up over the years with new abilities and augments on new frames, a lot of frustrating drop rates might go under the radar as a select group of players would be inflating the drop count, resulting in a DE seeing a "intended time investment" but only under certain contexts. People just need to stop expecting the game to drop everything at their pace and understand that DE want to set a certain time invested goal for obtaining a certain amount of resources, etc.

Ultimately, if people claim that only a fringe group of players are constantly taking advantage of this to grind whatever they want at a significantly higher pace, then the change should only affect said fringe group.

[SneakyErvin]

This change was more of a blow to Hydroid than anything else. Maybe that is a good thing since it will maybe make them look at him and give him a needed overhaul.

What also changed is that it is now not pointless to have 2+ nekros in the group, because each has a chance to trigger the extra loot from a corpse. So in a group with 2 nekros you now have 2 individual chances to trigger the extra loot. So it all comes down to adapting and overcoming, coming up with new group compositions that works fairly the same.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

22 hours ago, Ver1dian said:

Something very few ever did got removed and now everyone who will never do it because they're overstocked are blowing it out of proportion becasue others who will probably never do it no longer can.

Ok, I LOL’d.  Well played.  I was never a pilf/desecrate/greedy pull guy.

Edited May 25, 2019 by (PS4)Silverback73