Feedback on the recent looting change with Nekros/Hydroid etc.

[_Kiro]

Nerfing the loot in a loot based game. Can't help but think this is just desperation for the content to be able to last longer.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Or just revert the nerf and make Chesa destroy the body upon looting. 

[fr4gb4ll]

100% agree with the OP - he put it together well.

i do understand why they did this, but again, they never considered the consequences of changes and/or new contend beforehand and then over-reacting to 'fix' them afterwards. also, putting any new resource in the game and then wanting to prevent the players to use the most effectiv methods they were given to frame it, is rather low.

and no, don't even think a organized farming run is necessary just beacuse the new resource (not much problem to get what was needed for myself and my storm clans research), but if we had this option, i see no reason not to use it... next time better NOT give us new options to farm more stuff when it means getting nipped at the bud afterwards.

[(PSN)Onder6099]

To be fair, which concrete Resource is hard to get, that we need full squad of Looters?

[xZayziex]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

To be fair, which concrete Resource is hard to get, that we need full squad of Looters?

Its probably less about hard to get resources and more likely about people wanting to minimize farming time to maximize farmable resources so that they don't have to farm the same resource all the time to build stuff they use all the time. After they're done they can then go back to playing content they enjoy—at least that is often the case with myself.

For those who have everything, have forma-ed everything, have maxed out everything, and/or do endurance runs all the time, there is probably only a few resources in the game that they're actually interested in farming and, even then, they may end up having a big enough stockpile of resources that looting abilities are inconsequential to them. Alternatively, they may just prefer to bring whatever frame they feel like and are happy using smeeta buffs.

 

[Serafim_94]

3 часа назад, (PS4)Onder6099 сказал:

To be fair, which concrete Resource is hard to get, that we need full squad of Looters?

Mutagen samples

[Drasiel]

You completely forgot Atlas' ore gaze. 

[(XBOX)Nightseid]

Since the latest update that nerfed the interaction between farming frames it is clear DE is unhappy with player’s creating farming teams. I assume its giving them problems releasing new items as these frames flood the market and reach the building requirements in a couple of hours. With that in mind, it makes sense to limit interactions to these elite farmers but in doing so made most farming frames besides a desecrate Nekros less appealing.

I guessing this problem might be that everything falls under one loot table. Below are a 3 suggestions on tackling this issue:

Suggestion 1 – separate reward loot (mods, endo, resources, etc.) from support loot (ammo drops, health orbs , energy orbs, life support, etc.). Then have the farm frames only affect the support loot category. So folks can double dip on rewards. Problem here though is then we might be flooded with health orbs and life support, which would be an issue.

Suggestion 2 – remove All loot abilities and rework every power/augment that affects loot. No desecrate Nekros, Pilfering hydroid, or Pilfering Khora – instead these abilities either get a specific loot drop like Oberon’s Reckoning or provide a specific benefit that would have otherwise been received from support loot.

Suggestion 3 – rework how rewards are provided… not sure how but this would require a massive adjustment of a core component of the game. Although in general I do feel mission reward (from endless missions) need to be reworked, as we (players) tend to drop new game modes once we obtain its unique rewards but that’s another topic.

If farming frame group is a problem for DE then I would recommend suggestion 2 and remove loot abilities. This suggestion really only impacts Nekro’s Desecrate as it is specifically built to spawn more loot – DE could use this as an opening to either create a new mechanic or when desecrate is active it provides a specific buff to his allies or himself.

Possible ideas for a new Desecrate.

Desecrate v1 - Nekros emits a toxic aura that damages enemies around him. When enemies die within desecrate’ s range Nekros and allies gains life-link or a damage buff.

Desecrate v2 - Nekros emits an aura that converts corpses into energy restore buff – uses health.

Desecrate v3 – Nekros emits an aura that converts corpses into shadow energy which increase his power strength. Shadow energy is completely consumed whenever Nekros uses an another ability.

Possibilities for Nekros rework are endless (deserving of its own thread) but this is thread is about the new update which nerfs their ability to interact.

[Voltage]

Removing all loot abilities seems like a step backwards. Synergy between different Warframes to give more bang for your buck always felt nice, even when it was simple (Nekros in any farming mission with Hydroid present).

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Yeah how bout no.

revert the nerf and make the chesacrete destroy the body it loots. Problem solved

Edited June 1, 2019 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[(XBOX)Nightseid]

42 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Removing all loot abilities seems like a step backwards. Synergy between different Warframes to give more bang for your buck always felt nice, even when it was simple (Nekros in any farming mission with Hydroid present).

It does/did feel nice getting that extra loot but then you always needed those two frames in your group composition, and it's boring.

Why not give every frame the ability to recieve extra loot via a basic aura mod or arcane?

[Voltage]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)Nightseid said:

Why not give every frame the ability to recieve extra loot via a basic aura mod or arcane?

It's almost like the Smeeta Kavat exists. Farming resources can get boring no matter how you slice it. Allowing a few Warframes to give loot seems fine to me, and it's worked well for years. Now we have Pilfering Strangledome which is a nice addition, but that won't make me instantly drop Hydroid.

Edited June 1, 2019 by Voltage

[Aeon-]

No, wdf...like you don't even know how irrelevant this thread is. Just no.

[Steel_Rook]

17 hours ago, Voltage said:

Removing all loot abilities seems like a step backwards. Synergy between different Warframes to give more bang for your buck always felt nice, even when it was simple (Nekros in any farming mission with Hydroid present).

There's a fine line between "synergy" and "requirement." It's pretty clear that DE are basing their drop tables on dedicated farm teams, so you aren't actually getting loot any faster. You're getting it at the intended rate and everyone else is getting it slower. I say scrap all loot buffs, redesign their respective abilities and augments, then rebalance the drop so everyone can get a decent drop rate, not just edge-case premades.

[Drachnyn]

Last Devstream promised to go more indepth about the loot frame nerf but after one and a half weeks we still have radio silence on the topic. This looks more and more like DE is trying to sweep it under the rug for long enough to have people forget about it entirely. 2 Things need to happen:

• Revert the nerf to the loot abilities.
• Stop trying to hide nerfs in the fixes.

[TaigenRaine]

This sort of thing makes me feel foolish for telling my friends 'DE is a different sort of company.  They have MTX but they have been very honest and transparent about it, and it's about as fair as you can get for a free to play game.'

Then, they go and hide a loot nerf in the bugfixes section of a huge update and hope noone sees it so they can sell more boosters.  When did DE get bought out by EA?  It's as dishonest as any AAA game has been lately.  I worked hard getting the faction rep to get farming mods.  I was so excited to get a pilferoid, and now it's useless because Nekros is better and you can't use both.  This is supposed to be a team game and it's full of horrible team interactions.  Loot frames are now all incompatable.  Multiple Nova's ruin each others experience since the molecular fission mod that lets you refresh null stars with molecular prime only works on your own molecular prime, and if the other nova has everyone primed you can't prime them yourself.  Same with 2 Saryns, just try to keep your spore count going when there is another saryn.  It's a mess.

DE needs to work on getting better team synergy going, not nerfing it to sell more plat.  I buy plenty of cosmetics to keep the game afloat, but I will not be tricked into buying/spending plat because of deceptive crap like this.  So, on plat strike till this gets resolved.

[GhostlyMariner]

As a Hydroid Prime main, I'm not happy with this iconic combo nerf. 

[Drachnyn]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb TaigenRaine:

Then, they go and hide a loot nerf in the bugfixes section of a huge update and hope noone sees it so they can sell more boosters.

This is what i get the least about the loot frame nerf: Even when farming with a Hydroid and a Nekros you still wanted to have a resource booster because some grinds are just that long. 

vor 7 Stunden schrieb TaigenRaine:

Loot frames are now all incompatable.  Multiple Nova's ruin each others experience since the molecular fission mod that lets you refresh null stars with molecular prime only works on your own molecular prime, and if the other nova has everyone primed you can't prime them yourself.  Same with 2 Saryns, just try to keep your spore count going when there is another saryn.

Multiple of the same frame do not stack with each other at best and even prevent each other from effectiv use of their abilities at worst. This isn't really a bad thing though since it encourages having a diverse team. This in turn means that the abilities of different frames should have synergy. This is why Rhino's Roar doesn't stack with another Roar from a different Rhino but it does stack with other Damage buff abilities like Chroma's Vex armor.

The loot frame nerf turns this on it's head and is not consistent with how the game regularly works. 

It's so disappointing.

[Fallen_Echo]

On 2019-06-01 at 3:17 AM, (XB1)Nightseid said:

Suggestion 1

These are already possible and hardly pose any problem. The life support one would also finally bandaid the buggy mess of the survival mode.

On 2019-06-01 at 3:17 AM, (XB1)Nightseid said:

Suggestion 2

This would be nice but would also need a total rebalance of all crafing costs. Many items already need absurd amount of materials and if we dont want to speed up burnout even faster we would need to do something about the costs.

On 2019-06-01 at 3:17 AM, (XB1)Nightseid said:

Suggestion 3

The whole problem started from double dipping mods and such. I suggest that mods and special equipment should no longer be a drop but a mission end reward what you can trigger on killing a specific target.

For example each unit could spawn as a "material carrier" considering the specific drops it offers and killing them would reward the said drop. A tempo bursa would always drop a tempo royale but its spawn is controlled by the mods rarity.

[TaigenRaine]

I would be in favor of removing loot doubling abilities in favor of any of the many suggestions (totally new abilities, make enemies just drop more health/ammo/energy/lifesupport, etc) but only if it comes along with an across the board drop chance doubling.  Then you don't have people tripling/quad/etc with loot teams, and you give everyone the same experience as if they had a nekros (without every farming group NEEDING a nekros).  Loot can then be fine tuned from there.  The grind is certainly high enough right now, drop chances could be better, and they definately don't need nerfed.  Much rather actually play the content I enjoy instead of running mission A 2000 times to try to get what I need.

[Educated_Beast]

I don't see any problem with using specific frames to the advantage of team.  That's the core of Warframe.  

Even when this was possible, nothing was taken from the game but grind.  

Hydroid needs a complete rework, his one saving grace is destroyed.  That was the only viable augment mod (the corrosion one would be ok if the range of #1 wasn't impossible to increase, healing puddle isn't needed with arcanes that heal immediately by jumping in/out body).  

Hydroid could farm, now he has nothing because nekros is better.  

This change is disapointing and unnessesary.  

[(PSN)ReiKiraAkuma]

  R.I.P. resource farmin. 

  It seems to me DE has taken a self destructive stance on in game machanics.  So, in the pass DE has had to "balance" a few thing(s) in game such as weapons or a warframes ability. All in all i'll admit the "balancing" has not been too absurd.  With that being said when DE does "balance" anything in warframe they do so in an extreme way.

  There new target of "balancing" is the way we the players farm resources. What DE has done is stoped warframe abilties that give increased drop chance of loot from stacking. I.E. the farm frame 101 combo of a plif. Swarm hydriod and a descreate nekros will no long stack. So. Only one of the two abilites will take effect. This means that it lower the over resources aquired from farming. By now most of us have heard about this. The reason(s) this is a bad thing.

  Well to start if you thought warframe was grindy af before wait till you spend a hour to get way less amount of a resource you need thirdty thousand of to complete an item. Yes, you end up spending a considerable longer amountof time on farming a single resource.

 I have to say this there a few "bumps" heading our way as players of warframe.  I personally see this as a ploy to cause players to buy resource booster from the market with platinum. This "balancing" of loot drop chance is nothing more than DE way of breaking in game machanics they created. In hidesight someone at DE figured out it would probably be more profitable if they did away with drop chance machanics stacking. Which to me comes at a very uncanny time. Right after a newer warframe gets the ability to increase  drop chance. The drop chance ability machanics gets "balanced".

To sum this all up. It is not the first time DE as "balanced" something in warframe. However its the first time was as player need to take DE balancing as a warning as to the intent of DE and the direction they say there wanting to go. We as player may need to start taking the surgar coated words from dev's with a pinch of salt.

 

Now for my unflitered view of this nerfing.

YES this is a nerf. DE please by all means rip your game apart piece by piece. If you feel like warframe need to be tore down by all mean feel free after "EU" states its your game and all thing warframe belong to you. Now with that being said what you dont own is how and what i choose to invest my time and money into.  I will not invest anything into a developer that doesn't support there players.  Yes, nerf the f**k out of long stand in game machanics to increase pay to skip the grind tactis is straight up b.s.. What twist my nipples about this is in the past dev's have outright claimed that they openly avoid such avenues of intentional revenue grab a.k.a. cash grab tactis. Yes this is a cash grab tactic and nothing more than the first baby step toward the EA darkside of gaming.

I dont care what other say about this nerfing it is a cheap scumbag cash grab tactic even thou it could be worse.  However DE your climbing the steps on a very slippery slide.

 

Edited June 8, 2019 by (PS4)ReiKiraAkuma
Wording

[(PSN)Onder6099]

Why most players here are using arguments which fits to their complains only? Would be nice to be fair.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

If DE didn't like the amount of resources we were getting, how about they keep the ability synergy and do away with resource boosters instead? Oh no. Can't do that, revenue would TANK

That was sarcasm, i don't think resources are a problem and i would never nerf the boosters. What I'm trying to show is that DE at face seems to be in a mission to provide for us, but their tactics are all reminiscent of cash grabs. I don't wanna believe it but all the signs are there and until that is rectified, I'm staying offline.

Little known fact, DE has nerfed hydroid before by making his ability not affected by PS. They have also nerfed atlas' ore gaze and capped its percentage. Desecrate went through a nerf when they made it a channeled ability over a casted ability. Now that they don't stack, perhaps consider reversing some of these changes.

Edited June 8, 2019 by (PS4)Crixus044

[xZayziex]

I have added how Hydroid's ability to drop more loot is dependent on a max of 20 tentacles, their density and how enemies can bypass them; how Nekros's ability consumes 3 corpses per second; and the frames Ivara synergizes with best and why.

 

On 2019-05-31 at 7:14 AM, Drasiel said:

You completely forgot Atlas' ore gaze. 

I am not familiar enough with Atlas' ability to know how it synergizes with other looters or how efficient it is, and since I don't ever see people using him for looting I didn't include him.