Wukong rework first impressions

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

 

I mean, crit buffs, base stat buffs etc sound nice, but really Wukong doesn't need them.

My staff already hits for hundreds of thousands of damage per swing and takes me well above level 100.

Remember. Primal Fury is only good because of an exploit. That should not be. It should be strong enough to perform without it.

Edited May 26, 2019 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Please don’t use the PSA tag to plug your rework posts.

[DeMonkey]

17 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Remember. Primal Fury is only good because of an exploit. That should not be. It should be strong enough to perform without it.

Eh, it was performing at a sortie level even before gladiator set. Glad set working is unlikely to be an exploit, as it's current state is the "fixed" version of what was originally an exploit.

[Violet_Xe]

13 minutes ago, toyetic said:

They didn't say how they were going to use the rage mechanic. On one hand they could use it to lock his 4 behind a specific amount of kills,damage taken. damage reflected etc. But on the other hand they could tie it to the range of his 4 meaning rather than it going from 5 back down to 2 meters in an instant when the combo counter decays, his range will slowly decay allowing you to find more enemies while still keeping it's range up. This would obviously be a welcome change. Really could go either way 

But. why would they ever want to do that? Valkyr can just slap enemies with her exalted blade. While Wu kong has to build up his range, excalibur can slice enemies from over 10-20m away. Excalibur's and Valkyr's exalted are far superior in the sense that they grant buffs along side a powerful weapon. but you're saying Wu kong has to do work to get his buffs? and more so they don't stay on him to the end of the ability and he can't cast his at will. With baruuk we accepted this, just abrely, because he's a monk who shows restaint. it matched his theme. Wu Kong has no such theme to pair with a "4lock" mechanic.

heck even Ivara has a better exalted. She, like excalibur can make use of headshot multipliers. Wu Kong can't get anywhere close to that. His exalted sucks, so putting it behind a "4lock" makes no sense at it's core because it fails with it's attack mechanics. yes you get added CC and knockdowns now, but... will that help you survive, kill, or affect enemies 30 meters away? no. yet all other exalted weapons in the game have an answer to this.

Valkyr has immunity and armor
Baruuk can sleep and disarm, plus his exalted can effect enemies at a range.
Excalibur has an ability that sends out waves of light for 40m
Mesa is Mesa
Titanya is hard to hit and has both melee and ranged exalted weapons
Balefire is ranged
Ivara can cloak, sleep, and shoot from a range.

Wu Kong has nothing. It's just a staff. He used to have Defy, now he can taunt.

With taking away defy for survivability and putting his ONLY CC behind a "4lock" he's got nothing but a specter to held him live. It's not like cloud walker will restore him, they won't rip an ability from revenant. Cloud Walker doesn't let you kill or control enemies by the sounds of it. Putting his 4 behind some sort of barrier just hurts for no other reason than to hurt.

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

29 minutes ago, toyetic said:

They didn't say how they were going to use the rage mechanic. On one hand they could use it to lock his 4 behind a specific amount of kills,damage taken. damage reflected etc. But on the other hand they could tie it to the range of his 4 meaning rather than it going from 5 back down to 2 meters in an instant when the combo counter decays, his range will slowly decay allowing you to find more enemies while still keeping it's range up. This would obviously be a welcome change. Really could go either way 

This could be useful if DE, nerfs all ranges across the board with melee 3.0 and Wukongs staff has a significant increase in range vs all the other weapons. While weapons base range caps a 7, Wukongs is 12 would be good. Otherwise, yet again, lackluster.

 

32 minutes ago, toyetic said:

I agree that AI in warframe is usually pretty bad but there is definitely some upside to having the specter shoot while you melee. The general idea would be you don't have 1 good weapon out of the 3 you can equip but 3 good weapons. So while someone may be spin2winning with an atterax the specter is taking out stragglers with the riven'd sicarus prime you have ( which is likely to happen considering the specter has 100% accuracy). I still am in doubt because of the AI being shotty but if it's not this ability could be useful. 

You cant depend on Warframe AI to do that as you traverse quickly. They'll rush to follow in a lot of cases. Especially with macro s2w atterax example.

[toyetic]

1 minute ago, Violet_Xe said:

But. why would they ever want to do that? Valkyr can just slap enemies with her exalted blade. While Wu kong has to build up his range, excalibur can slice enemies from over 10-20m away. Excalibur's and Valkyr's exalted are far superior in the sense that they grant buffs along side a powerful weapon. but you're saying Wu kong has to do work to get his buffs? and more so they don't stay on him to the end of the ability and he can't cast his at will. With baruuk we accepted this, just abrely, because he's a monk who shows restaint. it matched his theme. Wu Kong has no such theme to pair with a "4lock" mechanic.

A. Im not saying locking his 4 behind a rage mechanic is good, im saying it would be bad, and im saying it's something they might do

B. Wukong's "work" to get his buff is hitting enemies to increase it's range, the reason this is the case is because throughout the journey to the west wukong utilizes a staff that expands and contracts at will.

C.im saying DE may use the baruuk mechanic as a way to buff his 4 and it's extending range gimmick by changing the way the range decreases or they might just lock it behind the mechanic for whatever reason the point is WE DON'T KNOW HOW IT'S GOING TO BE USED

4 minutes ago, Violet_Xe said:

heck even Ivara has a better exalted. She, like excalibur can make use of headshot multipliers. Wu Kong can't get anywhere close to that. His exalted sucks, so putting it behind a "4lock" makes no sense at it's core because it fails with it's attack mechanics. yes you get added CC and knockdowns now, but... will that help you survive, kill, or affect enemies 30 meters away? no. yet all other exalted weapons in the game have an answer to this.

 We both agree on this part 

 

7 minutes ago, Violet_Xe said:

Valkyr has immunity and armor
Baruuk can sleep and disarm, plus his exalted can effect enemies at a range.
Excalibur has an ability that sends out waves of light for 40m
Mesa is Mesa
Titanya is hard to hit and has both melee and ranged exalted weapons
Balefire is ranged
Ivara can cloak, sleep, and shoot from a range.

Again we agree aside from maybe balefire wukong has the worst exalted in the game 

 

8 minutes ago, Violet_Xe said:

Wu Kong has nothing. It's just a staff. He used to have Defy, now he can taunt.

With taking away defy for survivability and putting his ONLY CC behind a "4lock" he's got nothing but a specter to held him live. It's not like cloud walker will restore him, they won't rip an ability from revenant. Cloud Walker doesn't let you kill or control enemies by the sounds of it. Putting his 4 behind some sort of barrier just hurts for no other reason than to hurt.

None of us have any idea exactly whats being done to defy. All we know is that it will in some form "end" giving us damage reflection. No other numbers, or figures have been shown in how that will work. So the idea that they're taking away defy and giving him no ability to survive is baseless speculation

[DeMonkey]

40 minutes ago, Violet_Xe said:

With taking away defy for survivability

We don't know that. 

Just because he's losing EZPZ press one button immortality doesn't mean the replacement isn't going to provide some degree of tankiness. He could, and should, still be a tank.

[ZoneDymo]

3 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

This rework is getting rid of drain abilities in his kit because, as noted on Nezha's most awesome rework, drain abilities are objectively worse than Duration abilities. People don't like it on Baruuk and use his 2 and 3 instead to keep up his damage reduction.

Do not attempt to give him an ability on his 1 that interrupts energy gain for his later abilities. The whole point of putting it on a duration is that you can cast it and ensure you've got a guaranteed duration of the clone and even if you get a Magnetic proc or an Energy Leech Eximus taking your energy away, you still have the benefits of casting that ability. As a drain, you lose that function as soon as something makes you lose energy, whereas a Duration lets you keep it while you recover.

This is even worse, because to make this work you would have to scale the clone, instead of making him a copy. Otherwise, due to the lack of comprehensive AI on the clone, he'll get one-shot the second he's summoned at higher level. Well, unless the new Defy genuinely will keep Wukong alive as well as the current Defy does...

Wanting a variety of methods is fine, but the reason they aren't having the variety is because the other choices are bad choices.

 

I understand that sometimes straight duration is better, BUT when casting a buddy, that you just want to have all the time, at least I do, channeling would be better if its a bit cheap.
All the player has to do is keep their energy up which is easy enough with enemies dropping energy orbs left and right and other sources.

If its duration then it wont last long enough (just look at the mentioned frames Equinox and Nyx) so you are constantly just recasting the ability because, why would ever not want to have it? so it just becomes massively tedious, thats how I feel with those 2 mentioned and with frames like Chroma, constantly recasting his 2nd and his 3rd.

Even Atlas's 4th which thanks to some modding lasts over a minute, its still one of those "how is my rock dude doing? oh he's gone, guess Im recasting then".
Heck now thinking about it, with how much health that Rumbler has, that would make for a great death on actual death of the rumbler candidate, I dont recall ever seeing my Rumbler die due to actually losing all its health.

Going for channeling for once is not a bad choice, it works great on Ember's 4th, Equinox's 4th, Chroma's 4th, Hildryn's 3rd and 4th, Valkyr's 4th, Excalibur's 4th, heck with Nekros they changed his 3rd specifically to a channeling ability because mashing 3 all the time is just the worst.

[birdobash]

Keep in mind all Wukong related things are still a WIP and are subject to change, so some things discussed may become moot later on.

1. Changing Iron Jab to Hair of The King

Its thematically sound, and conceptually sound, what it most likely will not be is mechanically sound. We all know how bad Warframe specter AI is, yes, give them a sniper rifle and they'll kill everything in the index for you, but specters suck when fighting against hordes of enemies, which is 95% of the game. Although, it IS a step up from iron jab, which was completely useless outside of a niche build with the augment and glaives.

If I could tweak it without actually changing the ability, I would add at least 2 more clones, and possibly more, then make it so clones always target a different enemy than other clones unless there are less enemies than clones. If you can't fix specter AI, the simplest solution is to either speed the AI up, or to add more instances of them, I think the latter would work best with Wukong.

2. Defy

So apparently defy will change from invincibility to some sort of block and retaliate, they didn't show it off so it could really be REALLY good or REALLY bad, sort of how Nezha's warding Halo change originally looked worse but in conjunction with his other abilities it was actually downright better. Without any real footage and values however, it's too early to say anything about it.

Defy wasn't even that good anywayy.

3. Cloudwalker changes

Now this is a change that happened where I was certain there was going to be a replacement. I don't think changing cloudwalker will ever really make it worthwhile using, even with adding a crit chance buff to the end, and even if that crit chance buff was insanely high like +5000%. Why do I think that? Well, because cloudwalker is an ability that when you activate it, it means you are purposely NOT playing the game anymore, you have literally gone into a state where you can do absolutely nothing worthwhile, and I don't think a crit chance buff on exit is going to counteract the 5 or so seconds you spent doing nothing. Also, even with the movement speed buff to the cloud, it is still slower or equal in speed to bullet jumping, and it costs energy unlike bullet jumping.

If I could replace the ability, I would make it an ability that in its mechanics lets you close the gap for a melee attack, such as a speed boost or a homing attack (like atlas punch homing). Wukong never used the kinto un (flying nimbus) in combat or rarely did, it was a transportation tool, there are a plethora of other concepts from Wukong that you could grab to replace a generally bad ability here, such as transforming into beasts or buffs such as deity level strength and speed.

4. Contrary to popular belief, I actually think gauge type exalted weapons are actually better than energy type exalted weapons, yes, they do require that you build the gauge up, but in exchange you use less energy overall, zenurik works while you're using the weapon, and half the time you're building gauge passively. All of this means it is much easier to forgo efficiency in frames with gauge abilities, since now instead of 4 abilities with the 4th being very energy hungry, you now have 3 that generate resource for the 4th. Granted, desert wind isn't the best exalted weapon, but there is potential in the concept, and in the case of Wukong could alleviate the energy problems he currently has (defy is super inefficient).

Other than that, I think its passive of range increasing needs to be buffed tremendously, as in make it the longest weapon in the game kind of buff, and give it some way to get through armor, since impact damage and low status chance isn't exactly the best for killing armored enemies. 99% of the time nobody uses the staff because it is both worse in range and stats than a lot of melee weapons, it should at least have a clear distinct advantage over every other weapon (being immense range).

[Violet_Xe]

12 minutes ago, toyetic said:

None of us have any idea exactly whats being done to defy. All we know is that it will in some form "end" giving us damage reflection. No other numbers, or figures have been shown in how that will work. So the idea that they're taking away defy and giving him no ability to survive is baseless speculation

Well from what's being shown and said, it does seem like they're taking it away. They didn't exactly say so on steam but if you look at the devstream overview it says this specificly.

• Those of you who are familiar with Wukong, this ability is moving away from permanent invincibility aspect in favour of a more active playstyle. Defy will allow players to make use of small windows of invulnerability while they “taunt” at enemies, followed by a reflection of the damage taken.

This implies that the "I can't die" type of deal is thrown out the window in favor of a scaling damage ability utilizing "brief" windows of invincibility. Now yes this is vague, but the way DE operates has me worried that the moving away from invincibility in favor of damage takes away Wu Kong's survivability. Brief probably means no more than 4-5 seconds. Even if they did say give him or some sort of buff based on damage he takes during this "brief" period of invincibility. It would be copies of other frames and would feel like a trickster thing to do.

Nezha, takes damage to get halo
Rhino, takes damage to get more iron skin
Frost, globe takes damage to gain hp
Octavia, mallet takes damage to gain damage
Garuda, take hp damage to do damage

Once Defy is done, the taunt is still there. Enemies will target you down and blow you up unless you leave. But that's IF your team doesn't blow up the enemies first. There's also the issue I already talked about, the Hair of the King cuts damage in half as enemies will be focusing on either you OR the clone. And there's also things that need to be taken into account such as what happens if you taunt a bombard. they'll fire a rocket at you and if defy ends before that rocket gets to you, you blow up yourself after reflecting all that damage. There just seems like too many holes in this.

Also the idea of getting rid of immortality makes no sense. Rhino can reach stupid and I mean STUPID damage reduction levels which allows him to sit in front of lvl 400 heavy gunners like nothings wrong with the world. GHS found a way for rhino to get over 1,000,000 armor. Trinity can use two abilities and 2 mods to become a literal god. Nezha if used properly can't die due to invincibility after halo goes down.

yes it's speculation, but not without reasons behind it. DE doesn't give you scaling damage and invincibility together. it doesn't happen. I could be wrong, I hope I'm wrong, but from the way things have turned out before i've little hope for Defy at this point. I'm not saying that it's impossible alright. But it seems very VERY likely Wu Kong's going to draw the short stick here. Like Vauban, like Ember, and like Nyx.

I'll say this though as I know Wu Kong can control it at will... Why not do what revenant does? Channel increased energy to make it longer and deal more damage? Why implement a rage system? Channeling feels more "will" inspired than having to jump through hoops no?

3 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

We don't know that. 

Just because he's losing EZPZ press one button immortality doesn't mean the replacement isn't going to provide some degree of tankiness. He could, and should, still be a tank.

this is a newer one so i'll still reply to this. Again, "brief periods of invincibility" If Wu Kong remains a tank, where will he get his tank stuff from?
  -Specters? no they don't draw too much attention.
  -Defy, eh maybe that's in question but I highly doubt it because it will grant us some sort of scaling damage. Scaling damage and survivability are very rarely seen together.
  -Cloud Walker? Well it seems like cloud walker is becoming a buff mechanic to critical.
  -Ultimate? If anywhere it'll come from here. Except it won't because it will be locked behind a 4 mechanic and force you to use a weapon that sucks. If it doesn't suck, then they'll lock it away even harder to prevent you from getting access to this ultimate, which in turn takes away how you get your survivability. Plus te way they talked was that he would have CC to his ultimate now. CC, damage, and survivability within a single ability? doubtful.

If i'm wrong in where he can get this survivability i'd love to know. I know that were shooting in the dark here because they showed off so little but I seriously don't see any room for him to have CC or survivability. Even more so, it sounds like they're creating a damage frame.

A warframe that can create a clone, that helps you deal damage and takes damage for you.
An ability that has scaling reflection damage
An ability that boosts your weapon damage
An exalted weapon that has built in cc, and damage.

This is the formula for a damage warframe such as Excalibur. Not a tank like Wu Kong is supposed to be in lore and in the hearts of Wu Kong players. Am I wrong? please tell me i'm wrong.

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, birdobash said:

Defy wasn't even that good anywayy.

Preach. 

[DeMonkey]

17 minutes ago, Violet_Xe said:

If i'm wrong in where he can get this survivability i'd love to know. I know that were shooting in the dark here because they showed off so little 

Exactly, we need to know more before we make the assumption that Defy doesn't provide adequate survivability.

My own rework thread in which I propose brief invulnerability periods and a taunt also included health regen and DR, could be it comes with something similar. We don't know, there's no reason to jump the gun.

[KIREEK]

The problem with DE (that persists) is that they often nerf overused abilities and buff ones that players don't use, to make things more balanced in terms of usage, not knowing that most players do not use warframes with all abilities, but rely on 1 ability for a specific task.

Obviously they slap the deluxe skin to try and revamp the warframe and reduce complaints, but at this point, a deluxe skin is a sign of bad changes.

Defy is usefull since it's an invencibility ability that costs energy, making other tank warframes more deadly overall and usefull if energy is really a concern, nerfing the ability may turn the entire warframe worthless since the task meant for it is no longer possible.

Am i happy with the changes? No

Will this change anything overall? No. Players that are efficient remain efficient, those that are inefficient will remain like that, nothing really changes since the player ultimately makes the difference, not the warframe.

My issue is that i made wukonk for a purpose (it's existance in my inventory has a reason), if the ability becomes unreliable or has other unreliable mechanics behind it, then the warframe usage will drop even more, atleast for me.

Edited May 27, 2019 by KIREEK

[ZoneDymo]

"Although, it IS a step up from iron jab, which was completely useless outside of a niche build with the augment and glaives."

Sorry, stopped reading there already, idk what you expect from abilities in this game but it seems to me you are expecting too much and you are probably part of the reason for my biggest problem with this game, its too easy.

Sorry for getting so personal, its just really annoying reading posts of people who just advocate more and more for making the game even more casual when its already way too casual.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 minute ago, ZoneDymo said:

"Although, it IS a step up from iron jab, which was completely useless outside of a niche build with the augment and glaives."

Sorry, stopped reading there already, idk what you expect from abilities in this game but it seems to me you are expecting too much and you are probably part of the reason for my biggest problem with this game, its too easy.

Sorry for getting so personal, its just really annoying reading posts of people who just advocate more and more for making the game even more casual when its already way too casual.

So what’s your arguement outside of not liking his opinion?

[ZoneDymo]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

So what’s your arguement outside of not liking his opinion?

 

I would think that would be self evident from the criticism, Iron Jab is a fine ability, it sends a single target flying, does good damage that is further enhanced by your melee mods.
Fight a crowd of enemies, spot the strong, for example Nox enemy, knock him away with Iron Jab and carry on.

As far as 1st abilities are concerned its a solid one, fast, strong and if not deadly at least capable of controlling the threat.

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

2 minutes ago, ZoneDymo said:

 

I would think that would be self evident from the criticism, Iron Jab is a fine ability, it sends a single target flying, does good damage that is further enhanced by your melee mods.
Fight a crowd of enemies, spot the strong, for example Nox enemy, knock him away with Iron Jab and carry on.

As far as 1st abilities are concerned its a solid one, fast, strong and if not deadly at least capable of controlling the threat.

It's really not. If anything, it should be built into Primal Fury so that it can free up an ability slot.

[Violet_Xe]

40 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Exactly, we need to know more before we make the assumption that Defy doesn't provide adequate survivability.

My own rework thread in which I propose brief invulnerability periods and a taunt also included health regen and DR, could be it comes with something similar. We don't know, there's no reason to jump the gun.

The thing i'm worried about is, we have NOTHING to go on. for 40 days. No updates, no nothing. Maybe a few twitter leaks, but other than that Wu Kong's going dark in development. That's scary when it comes to feedback. It's like were talking into a void and we don't know if they're listening to us or not. Were jumping the gun now because if we don't give all the feedback we can now, this may go in the completly wrong direction that nobody is happy with. And as i've said above, he's on the path of a glass cannon DPS warframe.

I'm honestly scared for you Wu Kong players and I just want you guys to get what you want. Wish you the best of luck because I don't think DE will be showing anything till tennocon. Our only shot at making Wu Kong a better rework will be when it's launched during tennocon.

[ZoneDymo]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

It's really not. If anything, it should be built into Primal Fury so that it can free up an ability slot.

Gotta back up that statement Im afraid, I know warframes dont exist in vaquums but lets compare 1st abilities for a bit and see how they hold up.

Imo Wukong's 1st beats out: Banshee, Chroma, Ember, Frost (ish kinda similair), Loki, Mag (well tied I guess, less damage but larger crowd affacted), Nekros, Rhino (also tied), Valkyr, Volt.

And while im not entirely against the idea of it being part of Primal Fury, that does mean you have to have PF activated to use it, which would kinda go against the "wow big guy, PLONK, bye big guy" sorta playstyle it allows now.

Edited May 26, 2019 by ZoneDymo

[toyetic]

Said everything I would've said but in a much better more precise way, bravo

[Kontrollo]

I usually don't comment on WIP stuff because there's not much of a point to it. However, in this case I just want to add:

The new Defy sounds like a rehash or at least a close relative of of Nyx' Absorb. One of Absorb's problems is that it doesn't protect you from damage that is incoming when you end it, e.g. Bombard missiles.

 

Replacing Wukong's arguably best ability -- well, let's just say I'm curious to see how this is going to pan out.

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

34 minutes ago, ZoneDymo said:

Imo Wukong's 1st beats out: Banshee, Chroma, Ember, Frost (ish kinda similair), Loki, Mag (well tied I guess, less damage but larger crowd affacted), Nekros, Rhino (also tied), Valkyr, Vol

I strictly believe all of those need reworking. We've moved far past simple, one-dimensional first abilities. Which is the case for the majority of older Warframes.

They should offer something more, something interesting.

Chroma: Switch between elements, introduce new scaling mechanic to make it viable.

Banshee: It should blow enemies and their weapons clean off. Not a permanent disarm, but something akin to Titania's Spellbind. Additionally, affected enemies should be deafened for a bit.

Ember: I don't like this. Too basic. I would like tap to fireball with extremely high base damage, hold for a weaker fire stream that melts enemy armor. 

Frost: Enemies frozen are marked. Killing the frozen enemy instantly flash-freezes all other foes adjacent to marked target, dealing x% of marked enemy health as Cold.

Loki: Decoy cannot be killed. Recasting again immediately causes Loki to switch positions with Decoy (no need to aim). Hold to summon a new one.

Mag: Is fine. However, do allow her to yank enemies into Magnetize and not yank them past it.

Nekros: Instant-kill on any enemy below 50% health. Can also be used to kill Shadows you no longer want, dealing a percentage of their health as AoE damage

Rhino: Scrap it and give him a new move. The charge may as well be incorporated into his forward dash, it's simply too simple of an ability. New first ability? Move Iron Skin to his first and his two should be a Taunt that entices all enemies to ignore allies and only attack Rhino. As a trade off, Rhino gains increased critical chance on all his weapons.

Valkyr: It needs to be more fluid as a mobility skill. Additionally, enemies pulled by Ripline aren't launched into the stratosphere. Instead, they are pull towards her, where she will then prompt a Finisher. Killing the enemy grants Valkyr a critical damage buff to her melee attacks.

Volt: Volt can now tap to zap enemies or hold to conjure an orb of electricity that travels slowly, constantly zapping enemies. You can shoot the orb to amp up the power of the electrical shocks emitted. 

[(PSN)sonicizanagi]

7 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

Where exactly in Journey to the West is Sun Wukong ever said to heal himself for a portion of his maximum health when he takes lethal damage? Defy isn't "a strong part of his theme and lore", it's just the absolute most boring implementation of durability, which is what is actually thematic to him. 

If you actually knew what you were talking about you would know Sun Wukong erased his name from the book of Life and death and also took the pills of longevity. So I'm not seeing your point for acknowledging a part of his lore and praising it (hair of the king) for being in his kit, While defy is in his kit you want to dismiss it. It makes absolutely no sense and with out the ability he would be dead long before he could accomplish anything lore and gameplay wise.

 

7 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

how? Cloud Walker is by far the most unique ability in Wukong's kit, and it's getting buffs too. How exactly are a self-clone or an active taunt "bland and uninspiring", either? Most of what I'm seeing are complaints that Wukong is getting "nerfed" by whichever imagined durability metric, hence the comparison to Nezha's rework and the complaints he got before it launched.

Yes it maybe "unique" turning into a cloud to increase movement in that mode, But how useful is that when you have bullet jumps and defy not very. Oh you get stealth multipliers yes that nice, But why would a tank need that when it only affects a hand full of enemies around  while slowing down gameplay  him yeah very game changing isn't it. Oh but what about the bonus critical chance not really useful when you have an augment for the 4 which will trivialize the 3 to begin with. If you polish a turd it's still a turd so I'm not getting why your defending this poor ability, they are killing his survivability in order to keep this ability around what aren't you understanding. And remember when D.E said they were going to give Wukong a full rework this is just an ability change with a big Nerf and buffs that don't really matter.

 

7 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

how are Exalted Blade or Blessing in any way boring? Exalted Blade is an actual weapon you can swing around, and Blessing makes for amazing clutch-heals. Unlike Defy, both actually do something, they're not just a personal stat bonus. It feels like this complaint is way out of proportion and perspective, and so purely out of attachment for Defy's power more than its actual gameplay: tell me, what exactly is the gameplay behind Defy? What gameplay would remain if you made it a passive?

How is effectively killing everything through the wall not boring how is taking any threat and trivializing it for your whole team not boring when you can say the same for wukong's defy. Again it makes no sense and actually the gameplay behind defy is being a tank that takes the blows your team can't, while I don't have a problem with the added aggro to enemies out right nerfing that ability keeps Wukong from being useful. Yes you taunt enemies and you can take the hits but what about when your stun-locked and you die from something beyond your control, and making defy a passive will open up a space for another ability that can be beneficial for his kit. So then you can freely rework the kit so that both sides can be happy how are you not understanding this, Effectively freeing up space he will be able to adopt another trait to his kit and isn't that what everyone wants for Wukong to be a helpful teammate besides tanking?

[(PSN)sonicizanagi]

1 hour ago, Violet_Xe said:

The thing i'm worried about is, we have NOTHING to go on. for 40 days. No updates, no nothing. Maybe a few twitter leaks, but other than that Wu Kong's going dark in development. That's scary when it comes to feedback. It's like were talking into a void and we don't know if they're listening to us or not. Were jumping the gun now because if we don't give all the feedback we can now, this may go in the completly wrong direction that nobody is happy with. And as i've said above, he's on the path of a glass cannon DPS warframe.

I'm honestly scared for you Wu Kong players and I just want you guys to get what you want. Wish you the best of luck because I don't think DE will be showing anything till tennocon. Our only shot at making Wu Kong a better rework will be when it's launched during tennocon.

Yeah that's what I worry about as well but people sticking up for this minimal information for the rework is what makes me feel like this might go down poorly.

But thanks for the luck.

[DeMonkey]

1 hour ago, Violet_Xe said:

The thing i'm worried about is, we have NOTHING to go on. for 40 days. No updates, no nothing

We got this information on Friday though?

1 hour ago, Violet_Xe said:

I'm honestly scared for you Wu Kong players

Don't be, whatever comes out bad I'll kick up a storm about.