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(PS4)RenovaKunumaru

Wukong rework first impressions

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So, cloud walker is based on the mythical cloud walking slippers that wukong has, but looks nothing like it.  Functionally, it's alright, although desperately needs the proposed speed increase.  Artistically, it would be awesome if it resembled the flying nimbus from Dragonball.

Here's how I imagine it could be implemented.


Use k-drive riding animations for Wukong's body.

Apply translucence effect from Wisp's passive to make his body "invisible", but still visible to the player.

Create the standard particle cloud at Wukong's feet, with an energy tail akin to weapon trails.  It could even be done stylistically like Ōkami for some pretty effects.

When cancelled, make the cloud pop/burst to the range of the stun effect.

 

THIS IS NOT A CLEMING FIRST IMPRESSIONS POST, CLEMIT.  QUIT AGGREGATING MY CLEM.  CLEM!

 

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On 2019-06-07 at 7:37 AM, (PS4)chibitonka said:

still salty it didn't replace cloud walker. Rip Iron Jab lovers. Rip potential Iron Jab pinball Wukong melee antics.

You now get Iron Jab every time you press Forwards and Melee while Aiming ^^ That lunging combo likely does more damage and doesn't make you stand still and do nothing for the duration. 

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5 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

You now get Iron Jab every time you press Forwards and Melee while Aiming ^^ That lunging combo likely does more damage and doesn't make you stand still and do nothing for the duration. 

i'll just sum up Iron Jab's greatness like this.

Mobile Monkey Launching jabs of death. See that wall, ceiling, floor or enemy? Monkey can jab off it to get to those he's after faster. In a bad spot? Jab to get out of danger. Ran out of velocity while parkouring? Jab off a team mate, your clones or anything else you can think of. 

Instead of replacing cloud walker they replaced a good way of making Wukong's Melee game that much more his own.

Admittedly they screwed the pooch putting Iron jab the way they did but now that it's setup like that you lose the potential of what i described. Even more so when you consider consistently being able to cast it is vital.

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Mixed feelings with the state of the rework. I'm worried I wont be taking wukong into Arbitrations anymore.

So iron jab is traded for a clone with aprimary/melee. 

- cool. My first thought is maybe putting a status primary to enable a CO melee/Iron Staff. 

Defy is proposed to become a taunt. 

- so a taunt like Wukong stands there and absorbs like Nyx's 4 or even Octavia's 1. Or like Nyx's 4+Assimilate augment? Could the clone become the psuedo-mallet?

Cloudwalker gets a speed boost and damage buff to wukong.

- I like that his mobility gets increase, promotes a aggressive melee playstyle or maybe a retreat. Maybe make the cloud form a bit more transparent cause I could barely see anything in the demo.

Primal Fury gets a overhaul with the combo system.

- still need a reason to use this over other melee weapons especially with rivens being a thing. I have a heavy zaw with exodia hunt that just trivializes everything because of that CC it provides.

-i thought of this before, but introduce staff modes with light and heavy modes like primary/secondary fire. Light mode is a thin, long staff that prioritizes speed and range (a lot of range) for minimal damage, which combos with Shattering Impact as a armor stripper/nullified bubble pecker. Heavy mode has shorter range but will hit harder with a high crit multiplier or something

 

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.....

Never did I know that Wukong has laser eyes... he bro with Cyclops (X-Men)?

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1 minute ago, SerphV said:

.....

Never did I know that Wukong has laser eyes... he bro with Cyclops (X-Men)?

cyclops wishes he was Sun Wukong. 

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1 minute ago, (PS4)chibitonka said:

cyclops wishes he was Sun Wukong. 

I think that may not be true, Cyclops is kinda a chick magnet from what I read...

Sun Wukong, maybe not that much he literally lived under a rock for 500yrs

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4 minutes ago, SerphV said:

I think that may not be true, Cyclops is kinda a chick magnet from what I read...

Sun Wukong, maybe not that much he literally lived under a rock for 500yrs

after the Buddha pinned him down and sealed him there cause the rest of heaven was struggling to handle him. 

After beating up everyone that sent his way including Nezha, a mercenary wargod, the entire army of heaven and some extras. 

Nvm the fact his laser eyes shot all the way up through the heavens when he was born.

So yeah Cyclops wishes he was sun.

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Haha fair enough...

but chics though... chicsssssssssssssss

Wukong too OP... 

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2 hours ago, SerphV said:

Haha fair enough...

but chics though... chicsssssssssssssss

Wukong too OP... 

Wukong don't need chics 😄 

They need him xD

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I love everything about the rework except the passive. I'm okay with 3 free mission self revives. I'm okay with the 50% HP restoration. I'm okay with 2 seconds of invulnerability to get away. I am NOT okay with getting a random buff out of 5. Seriously, the only good one is the invulnerability one and maybe the invisibility one, but what if you don't get them? The orbs and resource bonuses are worthless and wouldn't help him whatsoever. Getting bonus damage is alright but what if you are running without a lot of different elemental damage (IE Slash + Minimal Viral)?

The thing that separates good frames from the not so good frames is that aspect of reliability. A frame that can consistently do well and do what is expected is what attracts a player to consider them in their team. We already deal with enough RNG from our grinds, drops, loot tables, and even the competence of our pubs; why does the outcome of my frame have to be one of them?!

Again, I am liking most of everything so far, and if I hadn't read anything about the random buffs, the way the passive is changing as it is would ALREADY be a moderately interesting change. However, just knowing that there's an additional level to his passive that I cannot control is actually more insulting than if it wasn't even there at all.

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This is mainly about the planned wukong changes for his Clone and Taunt. Now if his taunt is similar to Nyx's absorb, i see no problem here, but if its invulnerability period is shorter than the taunt ability's duration, as i quote "wukong and his clone gains temporary invulnerability", then it creates a big downside for wukong. Since his clone is health based and copy wukong's modded stats, using taunt in endless high level runs, it is just plainly useless as it will be killed one shot every time. My suggestion is make him viable at least for all kinds of runs, most importantly high level runs to prevent mediocre changes. Either make his clone invulnerable for a duration or make it a channeling abilit while invulnerable, or make defy's invulnerability period equal to the taunt's/defy's duration if it is duration based, or like how nyx's absorb works if it is a channeled ability. 

This is not the lazy type of changes, since it requires wukong to be more proactive and makes harder to achieive the same level of immortality unlike the present wukong just press 1 button to achieve immortality. Also making him more versatile and fun!

 

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if i'm remembering correctly the 5 different buffs have to do with how the monkey king character in "the journey to the west" got his immortality. with each of the 5 buffs being related to one of the ways he got immortality (yes the monkey king is immortal x5). not the most practical setup for a game but spot on source inspiration lore.

 

also these buffs are on top of the 50% health regen and 2 seconds of invincibility so they should probably be seen as a nice little bonus not the important part of the passive.

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The passive isnt there for the buffs, the passive is there for the revive function. The buffs are simply a fluffy layer on the already sweet cake.

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26 minutes ago, Wrum said:

if i'm remembering correctly the 5 different buffs have to do with how the monkey king character in "the journey to the west" got his immortality. with each of the 5 buffs being related to one of the ways he got immortality (yes the monkey king is immortal x5). not the most practical setup for a game but spot on source inspiration lore.

 

also these buffs are on top of the 50% health regen and 2 seconds of invincibility so they should probably be seen as a nice little bonus not the important part of the passive.

I understand that, and I'm happy they are properly going the way of making him accurate to the lore. 

However, couldn't there have been a reliable way to give him these passives? 

Maybe his ult could increase drop rate of orbs on kill instead. Maybe his 1 could grant him 5 seconds of invisibility on cast. Maybe his 2 could make enemies stunned by it take extra elemental damage. 

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The main concern is that Absorb isn't even a good ability in of itself. 

Why are we copying an ability that's terrible in practice to begin with? Absorb never deals any damage past starchart, so unless Wukong is going to reflect the damage as finisher damage, no amount he reflects will be noticeable. 

And if that's the case, why wouldn't Nyx Absorb also do the same?!

Unless they help both frames, this whole Defy change is a bad deal. 

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DE: *broke all slam attacks*...

*took away iron vault augment*

Me: you took everything from me

DE: i don't even know who you are

In all seriousness while the suggested rework took old wukong mechanics and playstyles, they added a lot more

But here i'm not going to issue my concerns about the clone...or defy...or the fact that you missed the opportunity to make a K-cloud walker ability DE >~<

 

I'm here to talk about his passive

It has a huge problem...it's capped 

Baruuk's passive gives him more survivability...and you deplete your restraint to keep you passive DR active 

Nidus can stay invincible as long as you keep farming at least 15 stacks 

Wukong has a great passive but he can't work for it...i can count the amount of times i defied death with defy on a single mission...so 

I suggest to lower the amount of times you defy death from 3 to 1 

And add a passive mechanic with his 1

As long as your clone is active if you take fatal damage your 5 ways of immortality passive will proc but won't consume, your clone instead will die and can come back after x seconds 

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While I do like the new changes to Wukong's passive, I feel as though being Able to escape death only 3 times isn't going to be as viable In higher level missions. Even though defy made him near invincible even that ability had its limits, considering at higher levels he will get melted due the lack of damage resistance or armor, which is something they planned to include with the new changes. I propose that instead of being able to escape death 3 times, he be given the chance to escape death numerous times a game, with a cool down timer similar to venari bodyguard or Phoenix renewal. That way he can't just die three times consecutively and and never gain from the passive again. This change would be extremely interactive as he would need to keep moving and utilize his Abilities in between procs. In conjunction with the new defy and cloud walker he would be able to have increased damage reduction and replenish health so he won't die as easily. The buffs can still remain, but you could make it so he can only gain the buffs once a game, meaning you wouldn't escape death more than 3 times and still gain the buffs.

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I have two big concerns and one minor complaint post reading the workshop.  I'll just get the minor one out of the way first.  It's his cloud walker augment.  Cloaking allies is a "cool" effect to have.  Ash can do it.  But the thing is Ash isn't restricted gameplay wise for doing it.  He can still attack and cast other abilities and seperate from his allies after cloaking.  Wukong is removed from the active playing field by using cloud walker and has to follow his allies around to keep them cloaked.  If DE is dead set on keeping the cloak effect for the cloud walker augment then they need to allow people to get cloaked and stay cloaked for a duration after leaving the AoE.  But i'd much prefer they find some other effect.

My first major concern is his passive.  I understand the ideas behind it.  But there are two issues.  The first being the effects are random.  I don't enjoy this.  I put it right up with Chroma's energy color dictating his abilities.  All of those buffs sound nice and barring the 60 seconds of invinicibility none of them sound incredibly strong.  My question is why limit it to 3?  People already get 5 lives whenever they enter a mission.  The threat of perma death is rarely a thing.  You have frames like Nidus who already don't die just by playing.  If you think a passive way to not die is far too strong then maybe he should get a different passive.  If you're limiting it because of how strong the effects he gets are then perhaps reduce the effects themselves.

The second part of his passive is the limit of 3 uses.  Is this only 3 per mission?  or 3 per revive token?  I think it's the former.  Which i'm not fond of because that means post 3 deaths his passive is gone.  I understand that passives are usually not meant to be insanely powerful integrel but we already have frames where that's not the case.  It really just feels like the random effect and the limit of 3 is to rein in the cool idea.  and as cool as these ideas are i'd rather they be scrapped for something that I will be able to take advantage of through out the mission.  I'd propose to let this passive stay.  Have it limited to 5 per revive token.  Reduce the effects duration's slightly.  And then add a cooldown timer.  that way someone can't die repeatedly and burn all the revives.  But it also leaves the threat of being able to actually die a reality.

My Second major concern is the clone being health based instead of duration based.  I completely understand why this was chosen.  He needs a health pool in order for most of the synergies to effect him.  I can only hope that the clone is beefy or can be beefed up to a respectable level through mods.  If he was a literal duplicate of us that essentially double dips with mods I think that might be enough to keep him alive.

 

Other than those things though I really like where DE is going with the frame.

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23 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

 Is this only 3 per mission?  or 3 per revive token?  I think it's the former. 

This is baseless speculation. Do you have any good reason to think it's going to be one over the other? 

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11 hours ago, toyetic said:

This is baseless speculation. Do you have any good reason to think it's going to be one over the other? 

Not to jump in on the argument itself, but it's not baseless, here's the exact line from the Workshop thread with appropriate text in bold:

On 2019-06-13 at 6:38 PM, [DE]SpaceySarah said:

Passive

  • 5 Levels of Immortality: Wukong has learned 5 techniques to avoid death whenever he takes fatal damage. Wukong will be randomly allowed 3 of these techniques per mission to avoid death 3 times. Each technique will make Wukong invulnerable for 2 seconds, restore 50% health, and provide a unique buff.

I don't think it gets any clearer than that.

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His rework looks incredible! I'm super happy at how varied and interactive it is. Yet another Pablo success. Now if only he reworked Chroma, Ember and Vauban...

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Glad you're excited! Just keep in mind that the rework isn't out yet, so let's get that update and then give him a good proper testing before we call this upcoming rework a success.

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