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(PS4)RenovaKunumaru

Wukong rework first impressions

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il y a 8 minutes, DeMonkey a dit :

"Lock". Have you seen him use it? You can cancel out of it into an attack whenever you want, it's quick to get into it and speeds up your movement instead of locking you in place. You're less "locked" using it than Inaros is using finishers to heal.

Silly me, I thought I saw the cloud moving pretty fast across the map, almost like it was being used for flight and travel.

You're locked into it if you want to get health back, why would anyone use this power if not to regenerate or just to cancel it afterward ? Moving instead of running or bullet jumping ? Wow i'm impressed, such a great job at reworking the less popular frame ever - Wukong really needed that.

At least Wisp got an awesome ability along with her teleport. Too bad Wukong gets next to no ability except from moving through lasers and oh, focusing enemies fire.

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il y a 9 minutes, DeMonkey a dit :

You don't have to manage it.

Wukong clones have to be managed since that's part of his design, hence helping him target enemies since spectre AI is dumb as hell.

Good luck keeping clones alive in toughest content though cause they're as fragile as dumb, unless you're spamming his new defy of course but if i ain't wrong you don't think that abilities are meant to be spammed. 

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2 hours ago, 000l000 said:

You're locked into it if you want to get health back

Inaros is locked into finishers or repeatedly recharging his 4, how is that any different? Oh no, using an ability will get you health back, how positively tragic.

When people say you're "locked" doing something, they mean you can't get out of it. Finishers lock you in place, Cloudwalker doesn't lock you in place and is cancelable at any time.

2 hours ago, 000l000 said:

Moving instead of running or bullet jumping ? Wow i'm impressed, such a great job at reworking the less popular frame ever - Wukong really needed that.

- Moans about the cloud not being useful as a traversal tool.

- Has it pointed out to them that it is now a traversal tool.

- Complains about it being a traversal tool. 

It's genius.

2 hours ago, 000l000 said:

Wukong clones have to be managed

This is bs, it does not need to be managed. You can manage it, but "can" and "need" are two very different words.

2 hours ago, 000l000 said:

Good luck keeping clones alive in toughest content though cause they're as fragile as dumb, unless you're spamming his new defy of course

It'll be more than twice as tanky as you yourself are and can be healed on demand. 30k+ ehp seems quite accomplishable for it.

The armour duration seems fair enough to not require "spamming" the ability.

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24 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

I mean, except from defy being cast around your clone too, i don't see many synergies in Wukong new kit.

Cloud heals clone, also relocates clone to you.

Clone gets Defy buff as well as using it.

Clone also uses Primal Fury.

Each ability synergises with the clone.

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il y a 14 minutes, DeMonkey a dit :

Inaros is locked into finishers or repeatedly recharging his 4, how is that any different? Oh no, using an ability will get you health back, how positively tragic.

When people say you're "locked" doing something, they mean you can't get out of it. Finishers lock you in place, Cloudwalker doesn't lock you in place and is cancelable at any time.

- Moans about the cloud not being useful as a traversal tool.

- Has it pointed out to them that it is now a traversal tool.

- Complains about it being a traversal tool. 

It's genius.

This is bs, it does not need to be managed. You can manage it, but "can" and "need" are two very different words.

It'll be more than twice as tanky as you yourself are and can be healed on demand. 30k+ ehp seems quite accomplisable for it.

The armour duration seems fair enough to not require "spamming" the ability.

Once again, if you need you health you're stuck into your cloud, unless you don't need that health, but then why would you use this power ? No offense but if you can't get that the player can't do anything at all while into cloud form, that's not my concern, i can't help you with that.

Yeah that's genius you perfectly got it, thanks for admitting it by the way.  Obviously you don't know a single thing about your avatar so i'll resume it to you: Wukong is no Dracula.

Obviously you didn't get why i was talking about spamming defy so i'll explain (again): Clones need that invulnerability, why would anyone spam it for its armor ? Are you sure you really read what has changed with Wukong's kit, i'm not sure at this point. 😥

My kavat can have as much EHP as that and it's dying all the time, once again you didn't get they're dying because of dumb AI, not dull EHP. Do you even know why you don't die much (at least i hope for you) ingame, because you're less dumb than spectre !

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il y a 11 minutes, DeMonkey a dit :

Cloud heals clone, also relocates clone to you.

Clone gets Defy buff as well as using it.

Clone also uses Primal Fury.

Each ability synergises with the clone.

I wouldn't call that synergies, you're buffing your clone only - Player don't get anything at all, not even additional abilities. Hopefully other players will help with the mission while you'll be relocating your clone or trying to focus fire from already dead enemies from a clone you don't even know the current location. Perhaps fun on paper, but ingame this new kit is barely interesting.

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5 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

Once again, if you need you health you're stuck into your cloud

Yeah. Shame we have no arcanes or mods that can also do that, meaning we aren't locked into doing this at all.

Wait... I already mentioned that.

5 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

No offense but if you can't get that the player can't do anything at all while into cloud form, that's not my concern, i can't help you with that.

No offence but if you can't get that you aren't locked in it, and can cancel it at will to attack, I can't help with that.

6 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

Wukong is no Dracula.

What has that got to do with the price of fish?

7 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

Clones need that invulnerability, why would anyone spam it for its armor ?

Why does the clone need that invulnerability? It'll have at least twice the health pool that you do and can be healed reliably.

8 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

Are you sure you really read what has changed with Wukong's kit, i'm not sure at this point.

Not me that hasn't really read what's changed.

Your glass is so half empty that you're over exaggerating the negative aspects and blowing them out of proportion.

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3 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

I wouldn't call that synergies

Then your definition of synergies is wrong.

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à l’instant, DeMonkey a dit :

What has that got to do with the price of fish?

Poor design. In case you didn't get it yet.

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Seeing the new stream, I have to give them the merit of making defy a functional counter at melee range as well as the invincibility it provides. That said I'm here to talk about the new armor buff mechanic he gets after performing defy.

As is already known, the armor buff is scaled around the damage Wukong absorbs during defy and is capped at 1500 armor. On paper this is said to have 85% damage reduction as Pablo has stated. Alongside his the rapid healing in cloud form it can be said that he is almost immortal, right?

Nope

The armor buff is not the same as damage reduction (e.g mesas shatter shield/nezhas warding halo) which absorbs damage from any source and has a few glaring weaknesses, mainly puncture damage. This isn't quite a big deal since many enemies that use that damage type aren't really significant and the clone can just straight up tank damage regardless with potentially Inaros levels of health. Moving on from that, the actual big problem is that the armor buff is capped at 1500. This is quite problematic in regards to having a role as a functional tank.

So far, the only similar instance  of gaining armor in this manner is between Atlas and Chroma. Atlas with his rubble mechanic can accumulate up to 1500 armor none scaling as well but it has the benefit of having him able to heal alongside it so I can see where Pablo was going with this. Chroma can reach a decent level of armor with his vex armor (4000+ with prime and some umbral mods). Atlases armor buff on his passive is almost amount to nothing when it comes to proper survivability. At its maximum value and used on its own without landslide acting as a breather, the slightest breeze in Sorties, Mot at a proper endurance run of 30+ mins and arbitration would be enough to make him curl into a fetal position. Chroma with his well above 85% damage reduction armor buff also starts to struggle at that point in time, and would also die and crumble like paper as soon as a high leveled enemy unit of the likes of a corpus tech starts to look at him funny. At least with Atlas, he has a way to provide for himself CC to go alongside his armor bonus to provide some survivability, Wukong has none of that other than his clone providing a distraction and the celestial stomp, but who would spend a augment slot for an inferior version of rhino stomp?

Whilst Wukong has a way of mitigating damage by cloud walker, I hardly see spending half of the time as a cloud as being proactive and fulfilling for people looking to casually slaughter with him.at sortie level play. Rather than being a useful situational ability for relocation, this has become a forced synergical ability to go along with the weak armor bonus that his new defy provides. 

 

Keeping it short, the armor bonus from his defy is actually weak and nonexistent outside of starmap. A way to improve this would be either to turn it into a proper damage reduction buff, non-scaling at 85% if necessary or to have the armor bonus scale with power strength to keep it relevant. To balance this out, the healing component of could walker could be removed in exchanged, as its not really needed with all the options we already have for frames with an exalted weapon (life strike/magus elevate) and can be instead be replaced with it actively dealing shock damage in the similar manner of Wisps shock mote. This would give Wukong a decent way to CC without a need of an augment, would add a cool theme for could walker to be a thunder cloud and it would synergize with primal fury by providing a proc, on which a staff with condition overload can make use of.

 

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il y a 2 minutes, DeMonkey a dit :

Then your definition of synergies is wrong.

I prefer Wisp's definition of synergy than what you tried to sell us as a well rounded kit.

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4 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

I prefer Wisp's definition of synergy than what you tried to sell us as a well rounded kit.

Strawman. God you're boring.

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6 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

Poor design. In case you didn't get it yet.

Great counter argument.

:clap:

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il y a 6 minutes, DeMonkey a dit :

Your glass is so half empty that you're over exaggerating the negative aspects and blowing them out of proportion.

My glass is full of wine so far cause i don't think i'd enjoy wukong new iteration more unless i'm totally drunk. I don't care about damages or whatever, but the fun factor is nowhere to be found, same with lore or what's really useful ingame.

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il y a 1 minute, DeMonkey a dit :

Great counter argument.

:clap:

That's an explanation, you're the one who's spamming counter-arguments here. I don't have enough time for that, really. I'm already spending decades explaining everything you didn't understand, that's a full time job !

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1 minute ago, DeMonkey said:

Strawman. God you're boring.

I was about to say that, Strawman probably only know wukong from another game not the actual character

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1 hour ago, 000l000 said:

My glass is full of wine

Your posts do resemble that of a drunk.

1 hour ago, 000l000 said:

That's an explanation, you're the one who's spamming counter-arguments here. I don't have enough time for that, really. I'm already spending decades explaining everything you didn't understand, that's a full time job !

No, it isn't. You haven't explained anything. You have stated many things that I have argued against, you have failed to argue back and instead have resorted to ad hominem and strawmen, allow me to do the same.

Your explanations are incompetent, your opinion is negatively biased to the point of being slightly ridiculous and you're arrogant enough to decide you're completely right before even trying it.

Ya boring.

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5 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

They aren’t turning Defy into a CC ability. They’re turning it into Nyx’s Absorb. Which has a very high chance of making the ability worse.

From the looks of it, DE now seems aware that reflecting enemy damage requires a very large multiplier to have an effect, which they seem to have put on Wukong's new Defy: in the gameplay shown recently, Wukong was able to one-shot Corrupted Vor with a cast of Defy, by dealing over 40k damage, which suggests it may in fact be a stronger Absorb in every respect. I guess we can just add that to the list of Nyx abilities that exist as secondary mechanics on other frames (which they nonetheless do significantly better).

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vor 4 Stunden schrieb ConsumerJTC:

but who would spend a augment slot for an inferior version of rhino stomp?

A lot of ppl would actually. an additionall cc ability for a mod slot is a fair trade that many ppl are willing to go.

In the same way could you ask - "Who would be willing to use path of statues for atlas as cc, when its just an inferior version of his own gaze ability" 

 

vor 4 Stunden schrieb ConsumerJTC:

Whilst Wukong has a way of mitigating damage by cloud walker, I hardly see spending half of the time as a cloud as being proactive and fulfilling

it has a rly good heal that heals you and your clone - gets rid of any negative element on you and makes you beeing able to get out of harsh situations.

I fail to see how its not proactive.

 

All you reasoning etc etc can be summerized into :

"I just do not like the cloud walk, because its an ability I personally do not like"

And while its only fair to give your own opinion, dont hide it under the mantle of "it's bad cause its bad".

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Looks like I have a reason to start crafting Wukong after a full year sitting on my foundry..

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47 minutes ago, ConsumerJTC said:

Whilst Wukong has a way of mitigating damage by cloud walker, I hardly see spending half of the time as a cloud as being proactive and fulfilling for people looking to casually slaughter with him.at sortie level play.

Why not? Looks like a useful gap closer that has the added benefit of healing you and your clone at the same time.

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1 hour ago, 000l000 said:

I'm already spending decades explaining everything you didn't understand, that's a full time job !

You're fired for incompetence.

Everything you're complaining about is either a non-issue or a projection of problems that the most recent Stream already showed they've covered.

If you want to sit your freshly-washed candy floss of a soul down and have a little tantrum about your favourite 'invulnerable' build now not working, fine, but the rest of us are actually looking forward to all of these changes as actual buffs to the frame, both functionally and thematically.

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Armor is indeed a lot worse than straight up dmg reduction, especially since it can be bypassed by slash. With my chroma build Im able to reach 5631.25 armor, which gives me essetially 95% dmg reduction, which combined with 1500 hp gives me 30k ehp, which is further boosted by adaptation for a total of 300k ehp when fully charged. But because slash procs bypass armor, a chroma will go a lot faster down when compared to a gara, who has around the same amount of ehp. This is because she can reduce the DoT dmg to 1% of its original value with adaptation and her dmg reduction, while also not suffering as much when compared to armor in terms of raw dmg, because most of her dmg reduction dont have weaknesses to elements. A practical example would be the kuva fortress, in higher level my chroma is basically eaten alive with 300k ehp, mostly because of the slash procs there, while my gara can easily keep tanking till lvl 200+. This issue will sadly also affect wukong now, though because he can cleanse himself from status, it might not be as bad.

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Did not see the stream nor did I know they did one. However, this is definitely biased, I still think cloud Walker should have been replaced with an ability that allows wukong to transform into different animals like in his lore with the 72 transformation thing.

Maybe cloud Walker is actually good know and just one of those abilities for me that doesn't look as appealing from face value, I honestly don't know.

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I'm looking forward to these changes, it sounds like Wukong will become a lot more versatile, which is something he sorely lacks right now. I just hope other frames will be reworked with this much depth.. looking at you, Vauban.

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