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(PS4)RenovaKunumaru

Wukong rework first impressions

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1 hour ago, (XB1)WafflyLearner89 said:

Did not see the stream nor did I know they did one.

With all enthusiasm, it's still there on Twitch (the stream temporarily died mid-way, so there's two halves of 25 minutes up on their official Twitch page).

Go check it out, Cloud Walker is fast now, really fast. The entry and exit animations are nearly instant, the duration is low, it heals really fast (from the points I was actively paying attention to, Reb died, triggered the new passive and was set to 50% health and Cloud Walker healed that up entirely in about 4 seconds), and while you can just hang there in mid-air if you'd like, it now moves about as fast as a full-strength Volt in 3D space. It still staggers enemies, and you could probably use the Augment quite actively now to cover an Ally whenever they need it (I can see it being useful on the Rescue missions if it works on the NPCs, the same way that Invis Arrow from Ivara works). 

Also, despite the whiner above, you can also cancel out of the ability with Melee to do surprise slam attacks or aerials, so you're never just locked into it, you can actively use it to reposition at any time. Oh, and for the part that everyone wanted: it no longer triggers laser traps.

Outside of that you get to see some of the really nice bits, like the Clone being clever enough when using Melee to actually run up and melee Nullifier shields to reduce them without cancelling itself as an ability, something most players can't do reliably, the new 1 Augment to have a pocket Rhino Stomp for only 25 base energy (direct the clone to do it), and the new smoother melee combos for the Iron Staff.

Honestly speaking, he looks fun. Far less like the mindless 'stand in direct line of fire all you want' and more actual Monkey King style of 'teleport into the room, confuse your enemies with a clone, taunt everyone in range, defy the damage they throw at you and pay it back with a sweep of your staff, and then mop up the rest with your staff, your clone or even a gun if you'd like and if they actually manage to get close to hurting you just leap into the clouds again to surprise them again.

Sure, transformations would be also on theme, but in the limits of Warframe's engine... the combat style seems to be just right.

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6 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

From the looks of it, DE now seems aware that reflecting enemy damage requires a very large multiplier to have an effect, which they seem to have put on Wukong's new Defy: in the gameplay shown recently, Wukong was able to one-shot Corrupted Vor with a cast of Defy, by dealing over 40k damage, which suggests it may in fact be a stronger Absorb in every respect. I guess we can just add that to the list of Nyx abilities that exist as secondary mechanics on other frames (which they nonetheless do significantly better).

Someone already beat you to telling me that.

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8 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Someone already beat you to telling me that.

Sure, but the point remains that DE is now at least somewhat aware of the discrepancy between enemy damage and enemy health -- Amalgam Javlok Magazine Warp has a 61x multiplier on its damage reflection, for example, so we might start hopefully seeing similar multipliers on more enemy-based damage as a standard.

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7 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

From the looks of it, DE now seems aware that reflecting enemy damage requires a very large multiplier to have an effect, which they seem to have put on Wukong's new Defy: in the gameplay shown recently, Wukong was able to one-shot Corrupted Vor with a cast of Defy, by dealing over 40k damage, which suggests it may in fact be a stronger Absorb in every respect. I guess we can just add that to the list of Nyx abilities that exist as secondary mechanics on other frames (which they nonetheless do significantly better).

I think Nyx exists to satisfy players whose preferred playstyle is to not do too much with Warframe abilities. So they pick Nyx and with the inherent lack of strong abilities, they reduce the likelihood of meeting anyone calling them out on not using their abilities (i.e. to say if suppose they chose a frame with better abilities, like an Oberon, but didn't heal, they might get someone who died being salty and say "Oberon why no 3?")..

 

 

It's the only explanation I can come up with for DE's philosophy towards Nyx's design. 

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38 minutes ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

Look at that rework. Now that's an actual rework. 

I know, right?!

Why can they do this with Wukong, of all frames (no offense DeMonkey), but be so lackluster with ones like Nyx, Vauban and even Mirage...

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1 minute ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

I know, right?!

Why can they do this with Wukong, of all frames (no offense DeMonkey), but be so lackluster with ones like Nyx, Vauban and even Mirage...

Yeah and Ze..err I mean Titania.

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6 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Why can they do this with Wukong, of all frames (no offense DeMonkey), but be so lackluster with ones like Nyx, Vauban and even Mirage...

Because I deserve it for putting up with so much forum garbage over the years. :wink:

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13 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Because I deserve it for putting up with so much forum garbage over the years. :wink:

I'm glad he's actually getting a deserved rework now. He looks really good, and I don't have any complaints about the kit at all. 

Of course, this is because Pablo reworked him, and as usual he actually plays this game, unlike whoever decided on the Nyx and and Titanita, Zephyr ect. reworks which where pretty trash.

You're lucky.

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1 minute ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

You're lucky.

You say lucky, I say bribery. I offered Pokemon cards, @Birdframe_Prime offered some Magic: The Gathering cards.

Still, as nice as it feels to get a rework that looks enjoyable, I don't feel all that lucky having had to wait 3 and a half years for it. I know you both like your Zephyr, and she definitely needs the help, but I've still felt that she has some use to a team, some reason to use her abilities, unlike Wukong. Hopefully things change, who knows, maybe you've got some valuable cards you can bribe Pablo with. :wink:

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in re to the clone ability

what will the durability of the clone be?  will it die before it can actually be useful?  that's my biggest concern.

now if they can make it akin to Wisps clone thing that would be great.

I am also concerned that they would so drastically change defy--  as that was probably the only thing that truly makes Wukong what he is in this game.   They really shoudl leave defy alone, and instead make his 4 also as good of a weapon as excaliber.

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On 2019-05-24 at 2:34 PM, Hyro1 said:

How about u wait until the concept is finished before complaining, it was clearly stated that everything is WIP with some abilities that cant be shown at the time

We all know damn well that nothing is changing between the stream yesterday and it going live sometime this week.

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56 minutes ago, Lupgarou said:

what will the durability of the clone be?  will it die before it can actually be useful?  that's my biggest concern.

The clone is as durable as Wukong is, it will use Defy and be healed by Cloud Walker, it will teleport with you instead of getting lost on the way. When you gain armour from Defy, so does the Clone, when you escape from combat, so does he. And when using Melee, of course, he gains the Damage Reduction from the auto-block on melee too.

Apparently, from what I've seen, its only fault is being a little Leeroy Jenkins when using the buffed Primal Fury.

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These changes look good. Now if only the Wukong deluxe will get actual hair. Probably asking to much of a dated engine like WF, but still would be cool none the less. 

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15 hours ago, LordLokai said:

I honestly disagree on this... specter's are useless only reason equinox is any good is do to the stupid insane damage it can do with the augment. It's AI is still utter trash.

His 4 has always been decent, i've never had issues killing stuff with it. So the buff should make it even better, it's to bad you won't be using it much since everything will slaughter you the moment you get close at any reasonably high level. He's LOST his tankiness.... and if you think the new 2 will make up for it i dunno, i dont think you've ever played high level play in Warframes. EVERYTHING will one shot you so doesnt matter what your armor is... the reason wukong was so good before was he could survive in that environment... now he cant and having great melee damage with his 4 wont change that.

Any frame can survive in that environment... 

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I would love if there was some sort of hard task you were required to do to regain your wukong revives, such as kill x amount of eximus's or take x amount of damage, some task that the game randomly generates for you whenever you're missing a revive from the 3 you get per mission. It would be in a way like how nidus needs to gain 15 stacks, but it would be more RNG, which sort of fits with the passive since it is already an RNG mechanic in itself.

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8 hours ago, Lupgarou said:

what will the durability of the clone be? 

 

7 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

The clone is as durable as Wukong is

Doubly so. It takes your health and multiplies it by 2, which iirc is also affected by power strength.

8 hours ago, Lupgarou said:

(Keep Defy) as that was probably the only thing that truly makes Wukong what he is in this game

What, garbage? You're right. Not a reason to keep it though.

8 hours ago, Spaceman.Spiff said:

We all know damn well that nothing is changing between the stream yesterday and it going live sometime this week.

The post you're responding to is from over 3 weeks ago, curiously the stream hadn't been shown at that point, rendering your little outburst a tad unwarranted. 

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23 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

in the gameplay shown recently, Wukong was able to one-shot Corrupted Vor with a cast of Defy, by dealing over 40k damage

Could you link that video?
I can't seem to find any gameplay of Rework Wukong besides the Gifs in a dev-workshop.

EDIT: Nevermind, found it.

 

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19 hours ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

I'm glad he's actually getting a deserved rework now. He looks really good, and I don't have any complaints about the kit at all. 

Of course, this is because Pablo reworked him, and as usual he actually plays this game, unlike whoever decided on the Nyx and and Titanita, Zephyr ect. reworks which where pretty trash.

You're lucky.

Zephyr rework wasnt trash. Her tornadoes are sick if you mod properly... 8 tornadoes plus any good melee and u can wipe any level anything. Just saying

Would be neat if the passive could be re-activated after all three charges are lost...through iron staff kills or something. Not needed, but would be cool. Otherwise, im so excited to get this rework on console 

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23 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

With all enthusiasm, it's still there on Twitch (the stream temporarily died mid-way, so there's two halves of 25 minutes up on their official Twitch page).

Go check it out, Cloud Walker is fast now, really fast. The entry and exit animations are nearly instant, the duration is low, it heals really fast (from the points I was actively paying attention to, Reb died, triggered the new passive and was set to 50% health and Cloud Walker healed that up entirely in about 4 seconds), and while you can just hang there in mid-air if you'd like, it now moves about as fast as a full-strength Volt in 3D space. It still staggers enemies, and you could probably use the Augment quite actively now to cover an Ally whenever they need it (I can see it being useful on the Rescue missions if it works on the NPCs, the same way that Invis Arrow from Ivara works). 

Also, despite the whiner above, you can also cancel out of the ability with Melee to do surprise slam attacks or aerials, so you're never just locked into it, you can actively use it to reposition at any time. Oh, and for the part that everyone wanted: it no longer triggers laser traps.

Outside of that you get to see some of the really nice bits, like the Clone being clever enough when using Melee to actually run up and melee Nullifier shields to reduce them without cancelling itself as an ability, something most players can't do reliably, the new 1 Augment to have a pocket Rhino Stomp for only 25 base energy (direct the clone to do it), and the new smoother melee combos for the Iron Staff.

Honestly speaking, he looks fun. Far less like the mindless 'stand in direct line of fire all you want' and more actual Monkey King style of 'teleport into the room, confuse your enemies with a clone, taunt everyone in range, defy the damage they throw at you and pay it back with a sweep of your staff, and then mop up the rest with your staff, your clone or even a gun if you'd like and if they actually manage to get close to hurting you just leap into the clouds again to surprise them again.

Sure, transformations would be also on theme, but in the limits of Warframe's engine... the combat style seems to be just right.

I never really thought about how limited the engine is (I forgot that games have an engine). Also, you make some good points about cloud Walker. The ability itself was my only complaint about the rework. I already had full confidence in the rest of the kit. Especially the 1st ability as it has an "attack this target" button which reminds me of the recent god of war game that has a dedicated boy attack this button (though I think it would be nice if as you level up wukong, you get more clones so you could have a monkey gang).

I will look at the stream when I get the chance but I do feel a lot better about wukong now (though I still wish he could have the ability to transform into different animals).

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From what I saw in the footage, the Wuklone is also invulnerable for the duration of Cloud Walker. Invulnerable, Nullifier bubble-avoiding clone smacking chumps while you sit tight in your cloud flying to safety. Then it teleports back to your side, in case you need a hand clearing nearby mobs (by then your health should be all healed up too).

It's gone from slow as heck stealth, to fast-paced on-demand short term invis/invuln/heal/mobility/enemy stun CC/buddy recall.

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23 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

 

Outside of that you get to see some of the really nice bits, like the Clone being clever enough when using Melee to actually run up and melee Nullifier shields to reduce them without cancelling itself as an ability, something most players can't do reliably, the new 1 Augment to have a pocket Rhino Stomp for only 25 base energy (direct the clone to do it), and the new smoother melee combos for the Iron Staff.

I'm pretty sure they specifically stated in the stream that the specter destroying the nullifier bubble was just by chance, and was just a special unique case. They said it normally would try to run inside the nullifier bubble to kill the nullifier, and would lose health over time as its inside the bubble.

Somebody in the chat had asked that question and that was their response.

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13 minutes ago, birdobash said:

They said it normally would try to run inside the nullifier bubble to kill the nullifier, and would lose health over time as its inside the bubble.

Even better then, the fact that an AI in Warframe can actually decide to go into a Nullifier bubble to kill it? That's genuinely above average in and of itself.

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Was thinking about how useful the Umbral set is going to be on Wukong, and how convenient it was I already had an Umbral build, but then I remembered that my Umbral Wukong build doesn't have much in the way of ability stats due to including Gladiator mods, in fact my duration and range are both unaffected, what if I want those stats? What if I want one build with the Gladiator mods and one without?

Long story short I now have a 3rd Wukong, both of my previous ones have 6 forma and I reckon this one will by the end of it as well... I don't even think I need this many, my original Defy/Primal Fury build is going to be broken by the rework so I don't actually need it anymore... But just in case... Right?

:awkward:

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3 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Zephyr rework wasnt trash. Her tornadoes are sick if you mod properly... 8 tornadoes plus any good melee and u can wipe any level anything. Just saying

Would be neat if the passive could be re-activated after all three charges are lost...through iron staff kills or something. Not needed, but would be cool. Otherwise, im so excited to get this rework on console 

When you compare how Zephyr was handled compared to Wukong, I beg to differ. Wukong seems awesome alone, without augments after his rework.

But I'm not going to debate it because there's nothing that will convince me otherwise. I'm not open to persuasion or suggestions on the matter to be honest. I don't even touch Zephyr anymore. I just find the quality of changes from frame to frame to be humorous at this point where some frames are given actual changes that matter while others get the ability to "charge their balls".

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