Wukong rework first impressions

[Stalk-prime]

In comparison, I think that the first skill to make a body is not as good as a change, so that Wukong can become the enemy of the front, or become an object, so as to sneak into the enemy camp or deceive the enemy, which is also Like Wukong in Chinese mythology, there are seventy-two changes.
Also, the third Wukong skills should become Wukong flying in the clouds, rather than hidden in the clouds, my proposal is to make Goku lower body blur, standing on clouds, of course，the use of skateboarding posture is also a good choice.

I think this is the Sun Wukong,  the Great Saint on a Par with the Emperor of Heaven.

and，regarding the luxurious skin of Wukong, I think I can refer to the appearance of the Chinese Monkey King.

[JustSigma]

I don't play much wukong since the exalted weapon change to exalted weapons. Personally, I preferred the stat sticks because it allows everyone to be on equal footing. But this change is dumb, Defy works amazingly with the Rage mod and having it up for a limited time ruins the synergy. I hate to throw one of my favourite warframes under the bus, but what about nidus he is unkillable and a powerhouse. I am a huge fan of the original wukong lore and the fact that you allowed him to clone himself is super cool. But in the lore wukong has a similar role to nidus he is tanky and strong. The ability that really needs a look into is cloud walker, in my opinion. It should be put on the one key and be like Excalibur's slash dash good for early damage but the late game it's used more for mobility and put the hair of the king on three.  

Edited May 25, 2019 by JustSigma
I forgot to put in that part about the rage synergy

[Gruiz]

Leave defy alone, its the only way wukong can stay alive in high level mission

Edited May 25, 2019 by Gruiz

[(PSN)sonicizanagi]

Wukong's rework is looking very poor it tries to stick to lore but it ends up being a carbon copy that is very uninspired and bland.

1.creates a clone that aggros which has AI which is a poor choice for any ability but. this cuts your energy pool in half because it aggros enemies which will make rage/adrenaline builds half as useful or just inefficient while also not being as reliable as you would want while being more helpful than the original 1 it will be very sporadic in varying situations

Make the clone have a set action like set from smite it's reliable and a strong example for a clone related attack or you could try wukong from paragon

2. This Is cutting his survivability easily and with the notion that this is to counter the "lazy gameplay" while having Mesa's and others 4 act the way it does is very hypocritical also with this new w.i.p kit it makes it look like your trying to keep to his lore but as I stated it's bland and uninspired. It's a core of his kit yet you destroy it effectively making him very unappealing to people new to him and also taking away a frame that people are attached to as well

Make Defy a passive if you want to encourage the player to keep active within gameplay apply a debuff for every consecutive "death"

3.it is a poor ability in every aspect invisibility why use it when your are immortal? movement speed? why use it when it breaks up the fast paced gameplay?critical bouns why when you have an augment that does that for his 4?

This ability is very dismal just change it there is no need or use for it it's basically like super jump 

4. It's very good and I would like to see it come with melee 3.0 but the Barruk style restrictions are a questionable choices for the wukong's 4 he is brash, impulsive and arrogant this would not fit in with the flow of his abilities and would also hamper gameplay

If you want a stack mechanic make it so that every enemy defeated makes Wukong boastful and then the enemies would be aggro or feared further increasing the effects of the entire kit

 

[(PSN)sonicizanagi]

1 hour ago, Stalk-prime said:

In comparison, I think that the first skill to make a body is not as good as a change, so that Wukong can become the enemy of the front, or become an object, so as to sneak into the enemy camp or deceive the enemy, which is also Like Wukong in Chinese mythology, there are seventy-two changes.
Also, the third Wukong skills should become Wukong flying in the clouds, rather than hidden in the clouds, my proposal is to make Goku lower body blur, standing on clouds, of course，the use of skateboarding posture is also a good choice.

I think this is the Sun Wukong,  the Great Saint on a Par with the Emperor of Heaven.

and，regarding the luxurious skin of Wukong, I think I can refer to the appearance of the Chinese Monkey King.

What your proposing will not be very enjoyable for others and slows down gameplay

And the deluxe skin looks to much like dagda from SMT and although it's a cool skin it's very uninspired and seem borderline the same 

[GinKenshin]

I'd not make any judgement and actually see how it plays first >_>

[Xepthrichros]

They didn't even show how his clone and his 4th skill work with enemies and already people are complaining.

How about just WAIT.

[Scruffel]

What's with a lot of people thinking that Defy is going to be completely useless now because it's going to work mechanically different?

They said it's going to do the same function, but have a different way of activating it along with providing something else new.

Either people have a time machine or someone has access to a Dev Build, I'm having a hard time understanding it.

 

[ZPERO]

So for those of you who aren't familiar to the rework proposed during the laters devstream:

1. Minor improvement but overall still useless.
2. Not only did they remove the one thing keeping him alive as well as the one thing that defines Wukong in Chinese mythology (invincibility), but now the enemies will all shoot at you to really add salt to your wounds and drive home the fact that you can't have invincibility anymore.
3. Still a useless cloud, now with the ability to go afk for a few seconds for a (most likely) unimpactful damage buff that doesn't make up for the dps you lost by waiting around for it to build up in the first place (unless it's acts more like a discount chroma, which isn't necessarily a good thing either).
4. Like baruuk, but sub-par chinese knockoff (more literally than not)

So here is my proposal:

1. Hold button to summon the clone, tap the button to switch between 3 different modes: Hold position, distract (clone pulls aggro and keeps distance from you or allies), and follow (clone follows you closely, like a sentinel, and is able to use the same weapon you are using). Hold again to terminate clone early.
2. Keep the old 2, applies to clone.
3. If used while clone is active, clone uses 3 instead of you. Enemies surrounded by your mist fire in random directions. Enemies can still clearly see your clone if he is in "distract" mode.
4. Like the old iron staff, but with better status chance and range. 

Potential tactics:
A.) Use 1 in "hold position" then use 3 so that clone becomes a cloud. Provides protection to a point (though with enemies firing in random directions, they could still hit it occasionally). And you're free to run around and do as you please.
B.) Use 2, then use 1 in "distract mode", then use 3 = defense point probably never destroyed, but also forces you do take on fairly passive role.
C.) Use 1 in "follow" then use 3, cloud now follows you closely.
D.) Use 1 in "follow" then use 2 for invincibility, then use 4. Enemies are now taking twice as much damage from 4 while you're in your 2.

That's how I would do it.
- It gives him the "never die" aspect he had before (and that at least 2 or 3 other warframes have already anyway, such as Inaros, Rhino, Nidus, etc)
- It gives him a way of crowd controlling enemies, something all warframes nowadays can do, even the very survivable ones (again, Inaros, Rhino, Nidus, etc)
- It gives him fairly good DPS by combining his various abilities (such as in the tactic D above) like for example, Rhino has, or Nidus with his new augment.
- It gives him a kit that synergises well and is fun to play. 

Comments/suggestions? 
PS: Apparently Goku (from DBZ) was based on Sun Wukong, the mythology character.

Edited May 25, 2019 by ZPERO
Typos

[(PSN)sonicizanagi]

33 minutes ago, Xepthrichros said:

They didn't even show how his clone and his 4th skill work with enemies and already people are complaining.

How about just WAIT.

That's besides the point reworking the 4 to be locked behind a timer isn't what we wanted and it doesn't fit either it's needlessly cluncky I have no problem with the 4 besides that

The clone ability is over used, bland and doesn't seem very engaging either also is an AI dependent ability which will frustrate players if they aren't responsible for their own death and it's just a poor ability in general much like cloud walker

And even in the event of just waiting what happens if they deliver a poor result can you guarantee that they won't just abandon Wukong after his rework. like how they did with other frames being put on the back burner of another extended period of time

[Xepthrichros]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)sonicizanagi said:

That's besides the point reworking the 4 to be locked behind a timer isn't what we wanted and it doesn't fit either it's needlessly cluncky I have no problem with the 4 besides that

 

DE: What's that? You all hate press 4 to win? Ok. Let's start by rolling out timers even on things that don't need them. (and also since wukong only has 1 person playing, if it offends him who cares right? hehe. not as risky as putting that timer on something that is meta and creating an uprising)

 

That's what you get for entertaining nerf-happy people.

Edited May 25, 2019 by Xepthrichros

[Dishonored]

after looking at what happen to ember after the REWORK .....

pls don't  touch  valkyr 

[Zoero]

Before I say anything about the rework, let me say a few things first. Many people say Wukong is one of the worst frames, Wukong is garbage, etc. - but the truth is those people don't know how to use wukong, simply put. Wukong is not bad, it's not great, it's in that gray area where it has very niche use (like many other warframes). At least it isn't vauban. Now, I play a fair bit of Wukong (top 10 most used frame) in arbitrations and high level content and let me tell you it out-tanks rhino any day with defy and that is why Wukong is one of the best tanks in the game, if not the best.

Now, I understand that a rework is needed but there are a few things to consider. His strength lies in the fact it can sit afk getting hit int he face for 3 days and not die. It's strengths are not the dps (there are better frames for that), not the mobility (there are better frames for that) and definitely not the buffs from the cloud (since there are WAY better frames for that). In conclusion, defy is what makes Wukong at least somewhat usable. Removing the "perma invulnerability" will simply kill him for good. Adding more damage to the frame won't make him better since, like i said, there are frames that are better at that role. The rework "should" be geared to improve other abilities based on his strengths, not his weaknesses.

TLDR: defy is what makes wukong somewhat good, removing it will kill it for good. [insert "stop he's already dead" meme]

[Zoero]

Those changes are better than the ones proposed by DE but get ready for the hate because people apparently don't know how to use wukong. TBH I think wuk is fine the way he is and i wouldn't change a thing. sure you get 2 S#&$ty abilities in exchange for NEVER DYING which is more than a fair trade. The 4 right now is not bad, if modded correctly it destroys everything. Back when wolf was introduced and people were complaining about it being too tanky, I would use wukong a lot and it simply destroyed the wolf.

[CarrotSalad]

My first impressions, Not happy with his 1st ability change as its not something that is interactive to players. Especially as:.

• This is a Wukong spectre? I can craft one of them in my foundry!!!
• I'd have the spectre rushing through enemies on the battlefield causing confusion and disrupting the battle

I would make cloud walker daze and confuse any enemies that the cloud passes through. He is a trickster so he should have the ability in his kit to play with enemies on the battlefield.

I wouldnt remove defy as it is his only useful and meaningful ability. All the others have too little impact when compared with normal gunplay and other frame abilities. It also a great execution i think of Keeping Wukong immortal while he isnt.

[CarrotSalad]

5 hours ago, (PS4)FriendSharkey said:

DE..Look it's not that hard..Ivara and Limbo can do it...So can Wu-Kong...All you have to do is allow his cloud walker to pass through laser traps....One more frame that can cheese the spy vaults isn't going to kill this game...We're six years in already...lighten up...

Nova and Nezha can aswell =D So yes, give it to Wukongs cloud walker too

Edited May 25, 2019 by CarrotSalad

[NoLazyShadow]

That's the point of a rework - remove god mode and make Wukong usefull overall. I hope same will go for Valkyr...sooner or later

[Stalk-prime]

2 hours ago, (PS4)sonicizanagi said:

你的建议对他人来说不会很愉快，也会减慢游戏速度

而豪华的皮肤看起来很像SMT的dagda，虽然它是一个很酷的皮肤，它是非常缺乏灵感，似乎边缘相同 

Maybe my language is too radical, I feel sorry for this, but you may not understand that the Chinese are obsessed with Goku.

[Zoero]

30 minutes ago, NoLazyShadow said:

That's the point of a rework - remove god mode and make Wukong usefull overall. I hope same will go for Valkyr...sooner or later

wukong is not the only frame that can tank "forever". nehza can too. it just requires a bit more imput. wukong's defy only works 13 times or so, so every now and then you have to refresh defy. i understand refreshing defy every 2-5 "deaths" but the proposed change will push him further into the garbage can.

[scourge213]

1 hour ago, NoLazyShadow said:

That's the point of a rework - remove god mode and make Wukong usefull overall. I hope same will go for Valkyr...sooner or later

Except that they dont make him useful overal. His 3 and 4 are not reworked, just tweaked, and exalted weapons in general remain inferior to other gear. So they remain bad. His 1 is a good attempt, but spectres are infamous for their horrible AI. We're basically getting innate equinox-duality, which is more of a gig than something trully useful.

And it only leaves his invulnerability. Which i can only point out is the only ability in the game that scales infinitely and allows you to sinergyze arcanes with melees to crazy levels.

Twin Arcane Avenger with Blood rush, Condition overload and Naramon(to allow you to not use +combo mod) while staying completely safe behind Defy is something no other frame can do. Revenant cant', sure if Inaros's EHP can handle the damage you can do the same with him, but he's far from invulnerable.

They remove that and add those weaks of him, we're facing a drop to his already extremely low usage.

 

55 minutes ago, Zoero said:

wukong is not the only frame that can tank "forever". 

Actually thats not entirely true. Look at revenant. He's just as unkillable as wukong is.

But comparing revenant and wukong. Look at what i wrote to NoLazy.

We're basically facing Saryn-style rework - a nerf on misunderstood frame, making it a shadow of it former self.

 

 

Bottom line: PLEASE DE, dont remove his tankiness, let him keep his Defy as it is. Please!!

Edited May 25, 2019 by scourge213

[MonkeyKV]

3 minutes ago, scourge213 said:

Bottom line: PLEASE DE, dont remove his tankiness, let him keep his Defy as it is. Please!!

His current defy is a complete garbage skill and has to go, please stop asking for it to stay. Press and forget invincibility is boring, non interactive and feels like using cheat codes when you cant actually play the game.

Defy needs to be a tankyness/survivability skill with actual gameplay/mechanics attached to it, and hopefully something more then just invulnerability.

Taunt+invul on a timer is a good start, provided he can manage outside of said timers with maybe a tweak to stats and other skills. Worst part of new defy is actually returning dmg absorbed which does not work well in warframe. Giving him more armor to be tanky and giving HP regen while you are invulnerable and "defying" would make it more interesting. You pop defy when you get low and actually fight instead of run while it brings you back to full hp, while drawing all aggro on to yourself. 

[MonkeyKV]

3 hours ago, ZPERO said:

So here is my proposal:

1- Clones are bad, AI is bad, your proposal is even heavier dependent on it. Do not like it

2- Old defy is bad, toggle invulnerability is boring, non interactive and has to go.

3- nothing about cloud walker is good, anything that uses it im against it.

4- The new 4 seems good. Better combos, no energy drain, a powering meter to make it better, and stats will be better.

[scourge213]

10 minutes ago, MonkeyKV said:

His current defy is a complete garbage skill and has to go, please stop asking for it to stay. Press and forget invincibility is boring, non interactive and feels like using cheat codes when you cant actually play the game.

Sorry, i truly don't want to argue, but current Defy is anything but press and forget. In heat it will last no more than a minute, you need to constantly be aware of it and your energy. You have to deal with disruptors before they can harpoon you or be concious about magnetic procs. Its a lot of gameplay interaction.

And the ability is not garbage for allowing you...what i wrote to NoLazy.

All i want is to keep wukong a infinitely scaling tank, just like he is right now or how revenant currently is. The easiest solution is to keep defy in its current state.

Edited May 25, 2019 by scourge213

[MonkeyKV]

14 minutes ago, scourge213 said:

All i want is to keep wukong infinitely scaling

Wukong has no infinite scaling, he is limited by DPS and KPS. Defy is absolutly toggle and forget, you turn it on and get around 17 uses of it before you need to "recast" it, you should build power duration on him which will give you at LEAST 10-12s of invulnerability. 12s x 17 and you have lots of time to forget it. That is if you die on cooldown which does not happen.

What content that we currently have that you are struggling to survive that you need toggle invincibility?

Don't mean to sound agressive, but if he is do more then afk invicibility his old defy needs to go.

 

Edited May 25, 2019 by MonkeyKV

[Zoero]

5 minutes ago, MonkeyKV said:

What content that we currently have that you are struggling to survive that you need toggle invincibility?

 

-long arbitrations

-sortie keyla de thaym

-pre nerf wolf of saturn six

-lvl 100+ bombards