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(PS4)RenovaKunumaru

Wukong rework first impressions

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25 minutes ago, toyetic said:

That's also a good option, the main thing is that even though cloud walker is lackluster and won't ever be as good as some of the better abilities in the game, DE can make it useful, good and synergistic within wukongs own kit which is what most of us are asking for

Yeah even Baruuk's sleep, Excal's Blind, ect require LoS so it'd be nice for Wukong to have some kind of edge over that even if he can't have as much range for balance. Especially to have cc without current Defy. I'd be ok with replacing Defy with some strong range-based cc (certainly beyond just knockdowns), even if somewhat limited range. Maybe the new Defy or Cloud Walker will do something like that besides just sending damage back like in the devstream

Or maybe rather than opening enemies to finishers he does some percentage of scaling damage using another ability with his 4th. Like 15 or 20% scaling damage. That'd be interesting. Certainly still slower than Mesa or Saryn in damage but if you hit the enemies enough times they are garunteed to die as long as it's not a boss or something. 

 

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Hey everyone! Glad to see so many people complain about Wu rework.

As for the 1st ability yep maybe a clon would be more interesting especially in tandem with the equipment clon, though the fact that it will use melee when I use range is kinda meeh, bet it won't give any help in a hot fight since it's an ai. Have to say that Poke sometimes can be very useful, it can knock off big guys such as Knox, when you're on reload or something.

Defy.. Well I really, really don't like the idea of changing it. It's pretty balanced as it is in a curent state, here's why: Wukong not a damage dealer, since his stick is pretty much useless on regular kind of missions, people only use it when upping weapons in rank; Wukong can only do damage with range or melee (not stick, since it's draw energy and there're better alternatives anyway) but you won't ever see Wu done most of the damage in a team or killed more mobs, so if there're Mesa or Saryn or any other range damage ability frame in a team Wukong stands aside paying attention to Zeroes, tanking bosses as Wolf and reviving team mates. And even Wolf's attack damage (when you're using damage=energy mod) don't give you energy so you end up empty and die. Teralists same story. You have to measure all the time the amount of damage that you've taken for not to die. You're saying Defy is a permanent invulnerability but it's not, it's pretty tricky ability and without it or changing it you guys gonna just rip Wukong's balls off. Please don't ruin thing if it's not broken!

Cloud walker: well it's useless in a curent state, first of all you can't see s in a fog to run away to hide\to use a tablet\ revive and you even can't use it! only with an operator. Changing speed of the ability won't change the fact that it's just a dusty parachute that you'll might use when you're low on energy+turning off defy\stick, but more likely you'll kill some mobs\take damage\use tablet.

Stick of truth: even with a good build on it, it's a close range weapon, on a high lvl you ain't able to use it without defy, it's a double energy drain + how does it help when all your team mates already killed everything that moves and even that target that you're kicking with that stick? 

Deluxe skin: well I'm glad that you guys finally threw the skirt off, hope that shining anus joke is also in the past. The helmet.. well it looks like Amber's, I will still use steam tennogen one. If you won't kill Wukong! I also hope that those spiky shoulders are removable parts. 

This is it, I really hope You guys reading forums, and will listen to our prayers not to kill\cut off balls of our favourite WarFrame - Wukong!

Greetings from Russia! Thank You for the Great Game!

 

 

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I so far like the changes coming: 

I like Wukong's current 1st ability but 'Hair of the King" I would like even more.
However, one tiny request for that ability specifically, pls make it a (rather cheap) channeling ability for once.

I say for once because Nyx her 1st buddy maker ability is duration based AND Equinox her Duality Augment is also duration based.

For some variation, can we make this one for Wukong either channeling based or based purely on health left (aka the specter would just go away when it dies)?

Also allow the specter to revive you and allies should anyone go down and the specter is summoned and close enough.


Also considering we currently have an augment for Wukong's 1st ability and that the new ability is completely different thus the augment needs to be changed, a suggestion for that as well.
When you die and have your specter out, the specter dies in your place and you gain a short time of invulnerability
 

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seems to me you never tried the duality augment.

 

sidenote cannot believe or understand how casual the general playerbase of this game seems to be, the game is too easy to the point of boredom as is and you all fight to keep yet another immortality power in the game?

Go play Revenant, Rhino, Inaros, Hildryn, Oberon, Valkyr, Chroma, Nekros, Nezha and many others if you want that....

I mean far from me to tell you how to play but its beyond me why so many people seem to enjoy having no challenge at all, why do you even play games?

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20 hours ago, toyetic said:

K.

As the wukong rework that me along with the other 6 wukong mains have been waiting for just got shown on devstream thought i'd give impressions

1. Clones are S#&$. Just as a blanket statement at best Loki'd clones shoot an enemy while in place at worst Atlas' clones ramble about doing nothing. DE your AI isn't good enough to justify adding more clones into the game. Giving wukong a clone might be thematically cool, just as Atlas' 4 is, but I can almost guarantee it will be completely useless if the history of other clones and minions are any indication.

2. They didn't show the changes to defy so there's nothing to discuss on this topic. Changing defy could go either way but it needs to be shown and not told.

3. Cloud walker sucks. You decided to change his best ability yet keep his objective worst ability. Even with added speed it won't be better than just using the already great parkour system in the game. And while im parkouring im not stuck as an actual cloud doing nothing. It's amazing how you could look at all his abilities and decide the ability to keep and just buff stats was his 3. Makes 0 sense and I can 100% guarantee that it will still be one of the worst abilities in the game. A polished turd is still a turd none the less.

4. As the same with his 2 you showed very little. The new combo changes look fine but doesn't do anything to the root of the problem. Impact sucks, his staff has low status, and the range is piss poor compared to any good melee. Locking it behind a baruuk like meter does nothing but hinder it. Make it look as pretty as you like but no one will ever use it if it's objectively worse than using a weapon that doesn't require energy.

Good thing all the changes are currently WIP as there's so much that missed the mark. You decided to add things into his bad kit that have historically been bad in warframe. You changed abilities that didn't need to be changed and buffed ones that needed to be taken out completely. Very little was done to truly fix the core issues wukong as a frame has while you added in abilities that may be thematically cool but have are bad in game.

 

I agree with everything but as someone stated its a WIP so DE may address the AI and other issues. Now Defy is the kicker here, if it functions similiarly to Harrows 4 where duration enhancing invulnerability timer also all damage taken tstored and released upon ending of such skill it will be a NUKE. So I cant say if it was nerfed or buffed yet until we see the final result.

Defy - yes hes losing cant be killed status but if DE makes the clone and you both use Defy and base on duration and power strength it will be the next equinox Maim.

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To have Cloud Walker be able to pass through laser traps in spy vaults...That's it...One more spy vault cheese runner isn't going to harm the game six years in when you have Ivara and Limbo running it...

 

PS: Side note....Also please buff the damage on coming out of Cloud Walker to the point he can actually be of use on the Eidolon hunt....

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My take on the rework proposal:

  • Duality as it currently exists on Equinox is viable enough to be picked, and warframe specters tend to be useful even without added damage buffs, so I really don't get the preemptive complaining here, particularly as the ability is thematic to Wukong. Sure, AI in Warframe in general is not great, but even with those issues, we have plenty of AI warframes capable of doing fine.
  • Yes, Wukong is losing his "permanent life" with Defy, and I'm happy about that. Defy is boring as hell, features strictly no gameplay, and is the key reason why Wukong feels so uninteresting, because he's a frame who does very little except not die. I can't speak for everyone, but I'd rather have a weaker, yet more interesting ability than a stupidly powerful ability that provides no interesting gameplay: a weak ability can be buffed just by increasing some numbers, but not amount of numbers tuning is going to fix a fundamentally boring mechanic.
  • I can agree that Wukong's 4 isn't especially interesting right now, but mainly because its whole range-increasing effect isn't nearly as prominent as it could or should be. If Wukong's staff could grow so big that he could smash entire rooms with it, that'd be super unique and interesting, but as it stands his 4 gets kinda thick... and that's about it. As such, more damage will be good, but it also needs much more range extension.

Looking at this thread, I'm kind of reminded of Nezha's rework: people on here complained across page after page about how the rework would nerf him and make him even worse than before... then people actually played the rework, and it turns out he became an incredibly solid, fun, and functional frame. In this respect, I feel like this thread is no different, as many of the complaints seem to be making assumptions that Wukong's clone will be statistically weak, or focus far too much on how Wukong will be hypothetically less powerful without his current Defy. On a conceptual level, I don't think there's anything wrong with Wukong's slated changes, and I feel assuming the worst all the time doesn't really come across as constructive feedback, so much as a bunch of knee-jerk whining that makes the community here come across as overly reactionary, despite all of the threads here that demanded or proposed a Wukong rework (many of which, surprise surprise, also suggested a clone ability, which was well-received by the people giving feedback there).

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My suggestion on wukong rework 

1. Hair of the king

Should use nekros' SoTD mechanics, enemies killed = total spectres can be summoned, enemies level = spectre's level. 

2. Defy

I dunno, haven't seen what it looks like. Is it like harrow's covenant? But instead of crit chance, it boost damage? And only for wukong himself? 

3. Cloudwalker

It should've been A SPECTRAL K-DRIVE MADE OF CLOUD, it should've been modable, with energy color change its cloud elements

Redish=Volcano cloud

Blueish=Thunder cloud

Greenish=Toxic cloud 

White/blackish=Blizzard cloud

4. Primal Fury

More range and power, baruuk's dessert wind is already more powerful than this, we're talking about WUKONG, the monkey king, he should be more powerful. 

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if you want spy to be made easier use limbo or ivara. imo DE shouldnt be adding ways to circumvent mission mechanics.

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45 minutes ago, (PS4)ATreidezz said:

 

4. Primal Fury

More range and power, baruuk's dessert wind is already more powerful than this.

Oh no it’s not. There is something you can do that applies the blood rush mechanic to Iron Staff and it makes it significantly better than Serene Storm. And Serene Storm can’t even take advantage of the combo multiplier normally.

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1 hour ago, EinheriarJudith said:

if you want spy to be made easier use limbo or ivara. imo DE shouldnt be adding ways to circumvent mission mechanics.

They already do though, stuff like damage reduction, status immunity, ciphers or liset support already do that, it's just here it'd be a pretty unique ability since not a lot of warframes have it

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27 minutes ago, Krowiplacek said:

They already do though, stuff like damage reduction, status immunity, ciphers or liset support already do that, it's just here it'd be a pretty unique ability since not a lot of warframes have it

i didnt say they dont do it. i said they shouldnt. its not unique if others do it.

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13 hours ago, Stalk-prime said:

I think DE's definition of Wukong is a little off.
We want the Monkey King, not a naughty soldier.

 

ikr? Monkey King =/= pushover trickster lmao

Monkey king = cuticle ridden hurricane of Staff laden one army's worth of fury, combative nature, shapeshifting, mage craft and mischief gib xD

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9 hours ago, ZoneDymo said:

I so far like the changes coming: 

I like Wukong's current 1st ability but 'Hair of the King" I would like even more.
However, one tiny request for that ability specifically, pls make it a (rather cheap) channeling ability for once.

I say for once because Nyx her 1st buddy maker ability is duration based AND Equinox her Duality Augment is also duration based.

For some variation, can we make this one for Wukong either channeling based or based purely on health left (aka the specter would just go away when it dies)?

Also allow the specter to revive you and allies should anyone go down and the specter is summoned and close enough.


Also considering we currently have an augment for Wukong's 1st ability and that the new ability is completely different thus the augment needs to be changed, a suggestion for that as well.
When you die and have your specter out, the specter dies in your place and you gain a short time of invulnerability
 

Just a monkey main strolling by. 

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As most are concerned the rework in cert feels more like a qol change instead of a proper rework x:

Iced Iron Jab even though that has been staple in his kit in the source mat and other games that use him. 

Kept cloud walker instead of relegating that to passive trait where it belongs. It's a qol trait for monkey but not enough to justify taking an ability slot.

Not putting clones/shapeshifting cyclable abilities where cloud walker was.

Turned defy into a taunt, even if they keep the death defiance it doesn't fit his kit. Monkey =/= voluntary tank.

 

Stance on his Iron Staff is so so. Seeing him throw his staff mid combo is odd when it weighs almost 3k times more than he does. 

Let's just look at this one instead and weep Wukong Brothers. 💔

 

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1 hour ago, (PS4)chibitonka said:

ikr? Monkey King =/= pushover trickster lmao

Monkey king = cuticle ridden hurricane of Staff laden one army's worth of fury, combative nature, shapeshifting, mage craft and mischief gib xD

Might want to chill on the spam, lest you turn into Vexx 2.0.

I mean, you don't see me posting my 8 or so Wukong threads in each and every topic on him. A repetition of my ideas perhaps, but never my threads.

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Also the meter to his 4 is a huge nerf to it imo. I would rather have it drain my energy like any other exalted weapon. I personally absolutely hate the restraint meter on Baruuk.

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30 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Might want to chill on the spam, lest you turn into Vexx 2.0.

I mean, you don't see me posting my 8 or so Wukong threads in each and every topic on him. A repetition of my ideas perhaps, but never my threads.

vex 2.0 :o monkey would be so pretty xD

uh oh. o.o

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8 minutes ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

Also the meter to his 4 is a huge nerf to it imo. I would rather have it drain my energy like any other exalted weapon. I personally absolutely hate the restraint meter on Baruuk.

it doesn't really fit with Wukong either. Impulsive, arrogant, rash. Almost the complete opposite of Baruuk. Giving him a restraint like meter is disgusting. 

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16 minutes ago, (PS4)chibitonka said:

it doesn't really fit with Wukong either. Impulsive, arrogant, rash. Almost the complete opposite of Baruuk. Giving him a restraint like meter is disgusting. 

We've just been told he gets a meter, not that it's baruuks restraint meter, that makes not much sense on him

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10 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

My take on the rework proposal:

  • Duality as it currently exists on Equinox is viable enough to be picked, and warframe specters tend to be useful even without added damage buffs, so I really don't get the preemptive complaining here, particularly as the ability is thematic to Wukong. Sure, AI in Warframe in general is not great, but even with those issues, we have plenty of AI warframes capable of doing fine.
  • Yes, Wukong is losing his "permanent life" with Defy, and I'm happy about that. Defy is boring as hell, features strictly no gameplay, and is the key reason why Wukong feels so uninteresting, because he's a frame who does very little except not die. I can't speak for everyone, but I'd rather have a weaker, yet more interesting ability than a stupidly powerful ability that provides no interesting gameplay: a weak ability can be buffed just by increasing some numbers, but not amount of numbers tuning is going to fix a fundamentally boring mechanic.
  • I can agree that Wukong's 4 isn't especially interesting right now, but mainly because its whole range-increasing effect isn't nearly as prominent as it could or should be. If Wukong's staff could grow so big that he could smash entire rooms with it, that'd be super unique and interesting, but as it stands his 4 gets kinda thick... and that's about it. As such, more damage will be good, but it also needs much more range extension.

Looking at this thread, I'm kind of reminded of Nezha's rework: people on here complained across page after page about how the rework would nerf him and make him even worse than before... then people actually played the rework, and it turns out he became an incredibly solid, fun, and functional frame. In this respect, I feel like this thread is no different, as many of the complaints seem to be making assumptions that Wukong's clone will be statistically weak, or focus far too much on how Wukong will be hypothetically less powerful without his current Defy. On a conceptual level, I don't think there's anything wrong with Wukong's slated changes, and I feel assuming the worst all the time doesn't really come across as constructive feedback, so much as a bunch of knee-jerk whining that makes the community here come across as overly reactionary, despite all of the threads here that demanded or proposed a Wukong rework (many of which, surprise surprise, also suggested a clone ability, which was well-received by the people giving feedback there).

You contradict your self by trying to defend the Ai and the clone's thematic tie to the kit, But you are pushing for defy to be nerfed even though it's his core ability and also a strong part of his theme and lore.

We'll see where he ends up after the rework, And the reason it was such a knee jerk reaction is because we waited for so long but this is what we're seeing. A bland and uninspired kit that for some reason keeps the most useless ability, No matter how much you tweak or buff cloud walker it breaks the gameplay more than defy does. But yet again people complain about this ability for no reason, yes it could be a passive or just have something else added to it. But trying to out right remove it is like taking exalted blade away from Excalibur, Or taking blessing away from Trinity yes these abilities can be boring but for the people actively playing these frames it's not a big deal.

 

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33 minutes ago, (PS4)chibitonka said:

Just a monkey main strolling by. 

But see, the real marker would be Demonkeys opinion

 

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3 hours ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

Also the meter to his 4 is a huge nerf to it imo. I would rather have it drain my energy like any other exalted weapon. I personally absolutely hate the restraint meter on Baruuk.

We were already told the meter is only for perks to the staff, like increasing the range. It won't lock you out of it.

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2 hours ago, (PS4)sonicizanagi said:

You contradict your self by trying to defend the Ai and the clone's thematic tie to the kit, But you are pushing for defy to be nerfed even though it's his core ability and also a strong part of his theme and lore.

We'll see where he ends up after the rework, And the reason it was such a knee jerk reaction is because we waited for so long but this is what we're seeing. A bland and uninspired kit that for some reason keeps the most useless ability, No matter how much you tweak or buff cloud walker it breaks the gameplay more than defy does. But yet again people complain about this ability for no reason, yes it could be a passive or just have something else added to it. But trying to out right remove it is like taking exalted blade away from Excalibur, Or taking blessing away from Trinity yes these abilities can be boring but for the people actively playing these frames it's not a big deal.

 

actually they replaced jump on excal with exalted blade. jump was totally useless after bullet jumping became a thing.

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