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We've Been Doing It Wrong


Engelheim
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So after watching the new livestream it occurred to me that the developers are having a hard time finding what is good and what isn't. This isn't a fault on their part but the way the forums are currently structured.

 

Currently there are just so many new threads popping up that everything will get buried; sometimes in a few minutes. This is extremely detrimental as threads and replies of merit do not get the chance to be noticed. It is unrealistic that a member, let alone a busy developer, would sift through the scores of pages in a thread just to look at a post that fits their needs.

 

Looking back, I now understand why many of the new changes and updates in Warframe have been met with controversial, even overwhelmingly negative, feedback. With Warframe's rise in popularity the devs are having a hard time knowing what exactly the players are thinking and as such their efforts are less focused towards the players expectations. Currently most of the feedback given to DE is only that which they, or other players, have viewed through luck.

 

We do have a rudimentary system (reputation) that will allow posts to have better chances of being viewed but this is of no use if no one sees it. Adding any type of member hierarchical system would be bad as everyone has the potential to voice suggestions and feedback of merit.

 

Suggestion:

 

Create a system similar to that of Reddit's where high rep posts and threads are shown first. This will give the developers an easy way to look at what players find to be the most agreeable. More importantly it will offer players to view their peer's reviews and further increase the rep and thus the attention of DE.

 

This system should be toggleable to prevent new threads and posts from being buried. Let me be clear, this system would be an option to players that wish to contribute towards the game development with their opinions or rep. It should not impact the current forum system; rather it should be a so called add-on.

 

The above system should also have an expiration date for their first page viewing (for threads, not replies) in order to let newer threads of importance through. This will also give DE (hopefully) enough time to read them before they expire. Expiration dates are something akin to 'thread(s) of the day' or 'thread(s) of the week'.

 

With this system, reputation should also be overhauled. Currently there is only one form of rep for everything. This will lead to threads having little merit (i.e. a players reaction post) to become the most popular. Thus there should be categorizations of reputation such as a general reputation (what we have now) and a reputation that applies only towards game development.

 

I'd also suggest to bring back negative reputation. This will give crucial statistics as to how many players are for or against a suggestion. Negative rep doesn't have to be public and can be viewed only by DE.

 

 

Whilst not directly pertaining to the current subject, I believe that this bug tracker post is an interesting idea.

 

If you found this to be helpful please rep it to garner the attention of DE. Tell your buddies about it too. Thanks.

Edited by Engelheim
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+1 OP

agreed

even though pure democracy is just mob rule, however the dev's are obviously the final arbitrator

 

+1

Thanks.

 

or a Dev Tracker

A dev tracker would indeed be nice but it doesn't address the underlying problem of helping the devs find suggestions or issues. This is only a method of communicating and benefiting the community (which is good but not enough currently).

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Supported +1 ! 

 

I also think if there were, perhaps, more Moderators/Admin on the forum weeding out the troll posts, the one-word answers, flame posts, off-topic posts, etc., there wouldn't be so much for the Devs to sift through. They said, themselves, that constructive posts, offering suggestions along with negative feedback, are the most helpful. I've run a completely non-related forum for nine years and if I got nonsense like I see on these forums, my banhammer would be worn out.

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Good news guys! Rebecca has told me they are interested in a system like this. Mission accomplished.

 

Supported +1 ! 

 

I also think if there were, perhaps, more Moderators/Admin on the forum weeding out the troll posts, the one-word answers, flame posts, off-topic posts, etc., there wouldn't be so much for the Devs to sift through. They said, themselves, that constructive posts, offering suggestions along with negative feedback, are the most helpful. I've run a completely non-related forum for nine years and if I got nonsense like I see on these forums, my banhammer would be worn out.

Thanks.

 

I agree, right now it's unrealistic for any amount of moderators to actively view everything. I believe the current system of moderation is fine. I haven't seen things get really out of hand; although I have seen some pretty angry people.

 

+ 10. Bullseye.

Thanks.

 

As much as I like reddit, I also know its flaws, so I would be careful with this, boss.

What are some of the major flaws?

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I agree with a lot of this. Excellent ideas, from what I have read.

 

However, I have to disagree with the negative reputation thing being brought back. Back when I was using my old account and negative reputation was in effect, truly amazing and balanced ideas were thumbed down simply because they changed things people didn't want to see changed, and overall it was abused terribly.

 

Anyway, here is my idea: More Community Moderators or something akin to them. As it is now, we only have a handful of moderators while there are millions of registered accounts and thousands upon thousands of active players. Add on to that the tons of new players coming in, they're swamped 24/7. We either need more community moderators or an entirely new set of people dedicated to browsing the forums and finding topics, both buried and not.

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I agree with a lot of this. Excellent ideas, from what I have read.

 

However, I have to disagree with the negative reputation thing being brought back. Back when I was using my old account and negative reputation was in effect, truly amazing and balanced ideas were thumbed down simply because they changed things people didn't want to see changed, and overall it was abused terribly.

 

Anyway, here is my idea: More Community Moderators or something akin to them. As it is now, we only have a handful of moderators while there are millions of registered accounts and thousands upon thousands of active players. Add on to that the tons of new players coming in, they're swamped 24/7. We either need more community moderators or an entirely new set of people dedicated to browsing the forums and finding topics, both buried and not.

Thanks.

 

In my opinion there should always be two sides towards a proposal. You do make a good point of how good ideas are negatively accepted, however the opposite can be applied as well. Furthermore the negative rep will not be the final decision as it is the devs that ultimately decide. If it was indeed a meritorious suggestion they should know its value despite the amount of down votes. This system will also allow high reputation replies to be shown which may agree, disagree, or change the original idea.

 

I'm uncertain of the exact state of the community moderators right now so I wont comment on that much; as much of what they do we don't necessarily see. However I can say that moderators are often underestimated in the amount of work and effort they put into the forums.

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I'm uncertain of the exact state of the community moderators right now so I wont comment on that much; as much of what they do we don't necessarily see. However I can say that moderators are often underestimated in the amount of work and effort they put into the forums.

Indeed. Pls don't misunderstand. I'm not saying the Mods/Admin are bad, just not plentiful enough. They can only do so much. I am also unaware of what guidelines they are given by DE re: the forums, e.g. when to delete a post, when to ban, etc. My forum has an active base of about 25-30 players and I have a staff of six, including me. I think I've only ever seen about 3-4 mods and 2 admins on here. Not nearly enough imo.

 

If there were more who could shoulder the burden and filter out the nonsense, I think DE would be able to read the worthy posts easier than trudging through pages of images, one-word replies, rage posts with no proffered suggestion of fixes, etc. Not saying it would fix everything by any means, but since mods/admin are usually volunteers, I say why not?

 

(sorry for succinct reply - have a broken bone in my hand)

 

Best,

DJT

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Anyway, here is my idea: More Community Moderators or something akin to them. As it is now, we only have a handful of moderators while there are millions of registered accounts and thousands upon thousands of active players. Add on to that the tons of new players coming in, they're swamped 24/7. We either need more community moderators or an entirely new set of people dedicated to browsing the forums and finding topics, both buried and not.

 

It's way too much work to let people skim through pages and pages and pages and pages of (potentially) good suggestions - and what can be defined as being a good one and what not? What if someone proposes something terribly stupid and gets a lot of reputation? What if someone proposes something marvellous but gets shot down (aka does not get much reputation)? Said community moderators/set of people can be biased too. Good and bad suggestions shouldn't be dependant on someone's mood or general attitude towards certain issues.

 

One thing that could be implemented is the "Best Answer" feature which is a default one for IP.Board. Posts being marked with this "tag" will be shown on top of the thread. Topic Starters/Moderators/Admins can do this to tell developers "that's what we would like to be considered".

There's also a hook called "TOP 20 Posts", which might be worth a closer look. It enables a small window which shows the top 20 threads with the most reputation + posts (sort of, I'm not familiar with that hook). These are just some suggestions to bring important issues to DE's attention...

Edited by LxLawliet
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  • 2 weeks later...

Late reply in this thread but there are definitely areas we still need in the forums (a working dev tracker), etc.. small additions to make the experience better. I am unsure about reddit-esque systems personally but have been researching.

We are not talking about making it easier for us to track you, it's easier for you to track down the truly helpful threads.

 

For example, did you ever get a chance to look at that thread with 200+ upvotes in the first 2 hours? It was about parkour, and movements to link up to each other like the current ones. Everyone buried it because it was so spot on no one could comment about any real changes or discussion, other then "Yay!" or "+1"

 

And once that initial excitement of everyone glorifying the idea the thread became buried, in only about 4 hours.

 

A reputation system where the most likes achieve more notice on front page could be help for us Tenno to discuss, and for yourself, Lady Lotus, to view and see what the community focuses on, which in turn, also really helps the hot topics become so much easier to write about!

 

I respect your decision, but I don't see many flaws with this idea!

Edited by Hayden11121
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+1

 

the main purpose of this forums seem more "letting players vent" than actually doing anything. If threads aren't sorted nor searchable then all the forum is just a Warframe-themed Facebook.

 

I would be very interested if they added a Bug-tracker-like system as most linux and open source programs use to track bugs, ideas and feature requests. Allowing volunteers to submit minor bug-fixes none of them has the time to do would be also amazing, but I'm dreaming.

 

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unzip/+bug/580961

 

The above is an example (albeit it does not look that good). There is a bug/idea/whatever, it's clearly categorized and sorted with tags and priority (in one word SEARCHABLE, and a dev can browse through all the similar ideas in seconds instead of wasting years using a forum without even a friggin internal search system provided by Google), and has its own ID and allows users to subscribe to notifications, there are Mods (Mantainers in the above environment) that group together similar enough suggestions and delete trash.

 

Although I would like to have that separate from the forum where people can actually discuss things and let that disappear after the discussion is ended.

 

And please allow decent features in this forum, a working posting panel with all useful buttons like quote or code or link or image, a way to get notified automatically of answers in threads, and at least twice community mods enforcing some strict rules (like NO TRASH IMAGES LIKE MEMES).

 

And it's not even that hard. There are plenty of free or semi-free systems like that that also have dedicated clients for devs that can easily browse and see stuff

Edited by bobafetthotmail
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