Adornin Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 (edited) Right so.. umm hi. Awkward way to introduce myself aside, first time I post anything on this forum, so I'm pretty much a newbie. Anyway, let's do a small rundown. We all know Ember, the hot chicken who runs around setting stuff on fire however she likes, and is best known for being a low-level room clearer, rushing through maps and killing enemies before you can even see them, and hog all the fun away for everyone else. But what happened to her? Poor Ember, such an old frame that has been through a lot, and is mostly overlooked due to her damage output being rather lacking, when compared to other big shot frames, who can survive on their own without being absolutely mauled to death, and still kick enemy butts like no tomorrow. The solution? Ember needs a rework in my whole-hearted opinion. Why am I saying this? Ember was one of the first frames I ever saw, that I wished to get in-game when I first started Warframe. After finally getting her, I enjoyed playing with her for some time, until I started to notice that lackluster damage, and the difficulty to survive in missions, mostly due to how beefy and deadly enemies become as levels rises. I already started noticing she can still fight, but is very limited in what options she have available, which forced me to single out most of her abilities, due to the other being more powerful and useful than the other. I got increasingly frustrated, trying different combinations to see what works, but I was always limited to one of her abilities of her whole kit. Combined with her passive being so reliant on you setting yourself on fire, just so you can get that energy regen, proved rather....ironic in a sense. Ember is NOT a tank, so giving her a passive that makes the player risk themselves dying just to regenerate energy, is pretty.. stupid, in my opinion. It just doesn't make sense. Ok, I've rambled long enough, let's get to the point: What if I got to rework Ember? Here's my ideas: New Passive: Flames of Havoc Embers flames are empowered, growing twice as deadly for each second that enemies are ignited on fire. Reason to change: Ember's old passive was too situational, and proved mostly unused and too much of a risk for such a fragile frame. This new passive aims to make her abilities actually become useful to fulfill her offense role. 1st Ability: Orbs of Chaos Ember can switch between 3 different types of fireballs. Tapping the ability button will use the currently selected fireball. Holding it in will cycle between her options. 1st: Fireball. Capable of bouncing off surfaces and enemies 4 times before expiring. Patches of fire are left behind where it touch. Explodes upon expiring, igniting nearby enemies on fire. 2nd: Cluster. Tosses a larger fireball, that explodes mid-air and scatters 8-10 firebombs in a cone. Does not bounce, deals less damage than your first fireball, but the patches of fire left behind lasts much longer. 3rd: Blast Orb. Using both hands, Ember charges up a large fire orb, which she then tosses towards her direction of aim. This fireball deals massive damage in the epi-center, but has damage falloff the further away enemies stand. It has a large blast radius, but the projectile is slow, and posesses high knockback. Reason to change: Ember's fireball has never been a useful ability, often overlooked due to poor damage and not worth the time or energy to cast. Giving the player the option to be creative with fire, opens up new ways of crowd control and burst damage, and makes her passive really shine in terms of damage output. 2nd Ability: Firewall Using both arms, Ember smashes the ground in front of herself, creating large glowing cracks on the ground, which travels forth until reaching max range, then bursting a flaming wall from the ground. Enemies caught in the rupture will be flinged and set on fire into the air. The wall blocks enemy projectiles and weaponry, and will scorch any foe that tries to cross the wall. Shooting through the wall grants bonus fire damage to you and allies (50%-ish?). If the player holds in the ability button, Ember will create cracks that travels in a circle from her hands, which then erupt into a flaming dome with same attributes. However, the dome has 50% the size of the wall's size. Ability is duration-based, and you can have a maximum of 3 walls or domes active. Reason to change: Embers Accelerant, while a good tool to stun and give the user hefty amounts of fire damage, didn't contribute that well to her other abilities. Accelerant becomes unneeded thanks to Ember's new passive, and her new ability grants the bonus buff that her Fire Blast gives to all allies standing within her fire ring. This ability also allows the Ember player to now play a defensive role, creating chokepoints and defensive barriers to protect objectives and allies alike. 3rd Ability: Jet Burst Ember creates an orb, which she rapidly accelerate into a flaming plasma ball, which she then exposes to the air in front of her, causing the water molecules to suddenly evaporate rapidly, creating a large, cone-shaped jet of steam in front of her. Enemies caught in the steam are stunned for a brief period, and are susceptible to become ignited from all sources (25% base chance), or Ember's Fireballs (100% chance). Allies and Ember herself are cleared of status effects if exposed to this ability. Enemies ignited by Ember's Fireballs will also spread their flames to nearby enemies they make contact with. If ability is held down, Ember will release the burst down at her feet, launching herself in the direction of the player's aim. Flight distance scales with power duration (placeholder, can change). Ability is duration-based in terms of how long the enemies are susceptible to ignition. Reason to change: Fire Blast, while a good tool for defensive missions, was heavily situational, mostly suited for infested enemies. However, it provided no protection against damage, and did poor damage to stop incoming enemies from harming the player, the objective they protect, etc. It was also an expensive ability, forcing the user to spam it several times in order to properly buff its damage up. Jet Burst becomes an useful crowd control and buff tool for your allies, as it allows Ember to buy herself time to setup a Firewall, or cause mass havoc using her Fireballs and weaponry. It can also save herself and her allies, removing dangerous status effects like Viral, Corrosive, Slash, Toxin, etc. With the added ability to quickly get out of sticky situations, or cross large amounts of ground quickly, this ability can be used for utility and traversal. Ultimate Ability: Firestorm Ember uses all of her pyromancy powers to channel the energy into herself, causing her armor to superheat, hardening her defenses and resilience to damage. All of her abilities receive a major boost, as she embraces the inferno of flames: Fireball now bounces 8 times around, and launches 3 at the same time. Damage is multiplied by x3 Cluster now doubles the bomblets released, and will spawn 2 more for each enemy killed by the bomblets Blast Orb gets double the blast radius, deal x8 greater damage, and will instantly vaporize any enemy caught in the epicenter of the blast. Firewall: x2 damage. Jet Burst: The heat produced from the plasma orb now auto-ignites with such heat, enemy weaponry are melted into sludge, forcing them into melee. Firestorm itself grants Ember and allies complete immunity to fire, and provides Ember with a hefty bonus: For each second Ember is on fire, her armor will increase in strength, until she runs out of energy. Once it happens, Ember releases all her channeled pyromancy energy like a large supernova blast, vaporizing enemies within a 3m radius, and knocking away any enemy in a 10-15m radius. The armor she gained rapidly cools off and hardens, now acting like a protective shell, weakening as they take damage, and decays slowly over time until its gone. 1st, 2nd and 3rd ability receives beefier and more powerful sounds, matching with new visual effects that helps distinguish her normal and Firestorm State. Reason to change: Ember's World on Fire was just bland and boring. It only encouraged to be lazy and run around rooms, clearing them in seconds without much effort. The rework made on her Prime unvaulting to fix this problem proved to only discourage further. Instead of giving her a big and crazy ultimate like other frames, I focused instead on really making Ember be a worthy frame you could use, when you just want to watch the world burn. Her abilities are designed to allow synergy, giving more options to play with the fires Ember create, and not just "press 4", which I'm sure we all know about. Now, I left out a lot of numbers on energy cost, duration, damage, range, etc. on almost all abilities. The reason I did so was because I was uncertain how it would actually play out, and I think its should be up to the devs themselves to decide what would be a reasonable damage, duration, energy cost, range, etc. with provided feedback from players of course. I appreciate thoughts and criticism about this, and I'll state it again: These are my own ideas, if I got the chance to rework Ember. I think she deserves some love after all she's been through. Edit: made a small error in Reason to change for Firestorm ability Edited May 24, 2019 by Adornin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterc3 Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 This is, more or less, a new frame. Why do this when they could just come up with a name and frame design and release it and make money on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adornin Posted May 24, 2019 Author Share Posted May 24, 2019 1 minute ago, peterc3 said: This is, more or less, a new frame. Why do this when they could just come up with a name and frame design and release it and make money on it? Why make a new frame of a fire frame, when we could take the one we already have, and make her better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterc3 Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 Just now, Adornin said: Why make a new frame of a fire frame, when we could take the one we already have, and make her better? This is no longer Ember. This is most of the work that would go towards a new frame that would mean more sales of Plat. This is an absurd amount of work for changing something players already have in their inventories, already have the Relics for, already have spent money on with almost no draw to spend more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adornin Posted May 24, 2019 Author Share Posted May 24, 2019 Just now, peterc3 said: This is no longer Ember. This is most of the work that would go towards a new frame that would mean more sales of Plat. This is an absurd amount of work for changing something players already have in their inventories, already have the Relics for, already have spent money on with almost no draw to spend more. Aight, how is this not Ember anymore if I may ask? Ember is themed around fire, I try my best to keep this themed around fire, while changing up her abilities entirely. Again, why create a completely new frame based around fire, if we already got one? And if they already have her crafted doesn't seem like a huge issue, considering frames do get reworked when absolutely needed. People didn't stop playing a frame after it got hit with a nerf hammer, they kept going, adapting and finding new ways to overcome the current situation. Again, I'm really wondering how this doesn't make Ember "Ember". What is Ember to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)LoisGordils Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 This is a new Warframe, not an Ember rework. A no from me, OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atsia Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Adornin said: Aight, how is this not Ember anymore if I may ask? Ember is themed around fire, I try my best to keep this themed around fire, while changing up her abilities entirely. Again, why create a completely new frame based around fire, if we already got one? And if they already have her crafted doesn't seem like a huge issue, considering frames do get reworked when absolutely needed. People didn't stop playing a frame after it got hit with a nerf hammer, they kept going, adapting and finding new ways to overcome the current situation. Again, I'm really wondering how this doesn't make Ember "Ember". What is Ember to you? Because you're scrapping everything she already has for something 100% new. That's not how reworks work. The common rework will only go as far as to replace 1 ability wholesale. Your heart is in the right place, but your ideas overstep the line. The kind of effort you've put into this suggestion is the kind of effort that goes into a new frame. I personally have a problem with your removing Accelerant, her best ability. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)MyUnhealthyHobby Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 Why did you remove Accelerant if I may ask? It’s literally her best ability post kit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adornin Posted May 25, 2019 Author Share Posted May 25, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, (PS4)MyUnhealthyHobby said: Why did you remove Accelerant if I may ask? It’s literally her best ability post kit. 8 hours ago, Atsia said: Because you're scrapping everything she already has for something 100% new. That's not how reworks work. The common rework will only go as far as to replace 1 ability wholesale. Your heart is in the right place, but your ideas overstep the line. The kind of effort you've put into this suggestion is the kind of effort that goes into a new frame. I personally have a problem with your removing Accelerant, her best ability. Aight, lemme break it down for you both so you get a clearer view of this idea I have in mind: No, none of her abilities are completely different. Fireball is still fireball, the one you toss at enemies and expect them to burn. It just has a bouncing feature now, along with more variety of different fireballs. There's nothing new besides adding a bounce, and some different fireballs. Heck, if its too much for a frame to have they can be remade into augments! Accelerant is not removed; It's more or less split up. Jet Burst stuns targets in a cone shape in front of Ember, while Firestorm boosts all of her abilities damage: Pretty much what Accelerant does. Fire blast, which may look absent, is technically not gone: It's merged with Firewall that allows for more control of the fires Ember create. In total, the only real new thing adding to this "rework", is giving Embers fireballs a bouncing feature, different types of them, making 3 new abilities, even tho Fire Blast is still part of Firewall, and Accelerant is split between Jet Burst and Firestorm.The only ability completely removed is World on Fire, which I already stated why its removed, and should be. So no no no, calm down people, I wouldn't toss out one of her best abilities like that, try give this a second read and you'll notice. Again, I appreciate for you guys pointing this out. However, keep in mind these are ideas, ideas that can't be developed without valuable feedback. 8 hours ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said: This is a new Warframe, not an Ember rework. A no from me, OP. Sorry, this isn't really criticism imo. Please provide actual criticism instead of throwing this out, it'll do both of us a favor in understanding one another. Edit: I misunderstood what Lois said completely, made small change for that Edited May 25, 2019 by Adornin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adornin Posted May 25, 2019 Author Share Posted May 25, 2019 Also, if you guys know how to improve these ideas, please give me suggestions and feedback, it helps. A lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupernovaSymphony Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 This is solid. She needs to be torn down and rebuilt. Simple tweaks wont cut it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoneDymo Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 I run ember with max range and an augment on her 4th, she is perfectly fine that way and still the murder machine she was. I will agree though that her passive is too situational, her 1st is pointless and her 3rd could do with a boost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adornin Posted May 26, 2019 Author Share Posted May 26, 2019 (edited) On 25/05/2019 at 5:23 PM, ZoneDymo said: I will agree though that her passive is too situational, her 1st is pointless and her 3rd could do with a boost. Indeed, her first ability doesn't deal that much damage at all, and the charging gimmick barely makes a difference. That's why my idea involves improving her fireballs, by adding 2 new special ones, one focused on spreading fire, and one focused on dealing big damage, while her regular fireballs can also bounce around. Her new passive I had in mind also contributes this, which imo fits well with how fire procs work ingame, since they are refreshed each time they're procced, if I understand it correctly. As for her 3rd ability, technically speaking the Firewall ability idea I put up, is her Fire Blast if you held down the ability, creating a dome of fire instead of a straight wall line. Her Firewall focuses on both an offensive and defensive approach, giving the Ember player the option to choose. Otherwise I agree with most of what you said. Edit: forgot to add a small thing Edited May 26, 2019 by Adornin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)LoisGordils Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 On 2019-05-25 at 10:23 AM, ZoneDymo said: I run ember with max range and an augment on her 4th, she is perfectly fine that way and still the murder machine she was Good for you! However, not everyone builds her that way. Murder machine to level 40s perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)MyUnhealthyHobby Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said: Good for you! However, not everyone builds her that way. Murder machine to level 40s perhaps. That’s exactly what I was thinking. In no way, shape or form are they doing anything with Ember’s abilities (except Accelerant) past level 90-100. I can’t say for sure but it looks like they don’t want to see her buffed. I could be wrong though. Edited May 26, 2019 by (PS4)MyUnhealthyHobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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