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(PS4)The_LaBaDa

There's a ton of discussion about the fat frame.

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On 2019-05-24 at 3:12 PM, Xolot said:

Is there any chance for that mouth-like mark in his stomach to open up to devour or even throw energy blasts out of it?

That’s a high probability 

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On 2019-05-25 at 12:05 AM, RaDiaFox said:

I'm reminded of old bacchaus from Smite... Or a sumo wrestler... Or my ex a year after we split the ol' egg.

Sumo style skin would be awesome!

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5 hours ago, (NSW)Sk0rp1on said:

Hard as steel might not mean as the inflexible as steel. Warframe skin is clearly flexible, it just might be as hard to pierce or cut through as steel armour.

that depends on what type of armor of the steel is in, there are poor qualities of steel, mild, and high qualities of steel, if we go with poor qualities of steel they are easy to snap almost like pig iron except for its way tougher then pig iron, mild steel is basically what we use today for tools, cars, and several things, high qualities steel is one those hard steel like the beam of steel or either the actual tank that is plated steel armor.  There is steel can be used as a string bundle which they are either use for wielding or either use for certain tools (like a fish line which there is a fish can break steel cable wires).  Iron is in our bone so does animals and insects for I don't know ballistic fiber would sit on this one but consider it use iron or either from a goat that has DNA to be a golden spider thick web thread which the U.S.A had super upgrade version of the better ballistic fiber armor.

Pretty much can be flexible as steel, it just...the logic jiggling is confusing which none of the jigglings make any sense for it could be mercury metal or either one those metal that melts easy in-room temperature.

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On 2019-05-24 at 2:41 PM, KnossosTNC said:

Reminds me of Mortal Kombat's Bo' Rai Cho.

Hey, I just had an idea for his 4...

Absolutely disgraceful

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Good example would be Kevlar, its a lightweight durable material capable of deflecting small arms fire & knife attacks, I would imagine a biomesh weave of essentially the same materials could prove as flexible & durable, spider silk could also be fashioned in such a way, let alone getting into our current meta materials like Nanocarbon, add a few centuries? millennia? to that tech & it'd be easy to see.

Also DE please more Sai weapons please! Ninja Cartman is needed! Damn man 3 great ideas, now if I could see how that gut eats people I could also go for a 4th from Canti from FLCL!

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Again, you confuse/purposely conflate "vibration" with "jiggle". This is mere semantic play, not an actual argument. The term "jiggle" as used with "jiggle physics" is not a high speed vibration as you would see on a drum skin or similar (the thunder sheet you speak off is similar to one, except being bigger it vibrates slower and produces a lower pitch)

Also, a thunder sheet is necessarily tensioned against a frame, which prevents permanent distortion as the frame itself cannot change shape easily. If you took the metal skin out of the frame/its support, you will see it bend.

You can also check out the wikipedia images of a Thunder Sheet. I see some ... dents!? What happened to "no folding/deformation"?

(wow, the forums messed up the quotes but this is regarding your thunder sheet argument)

8 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

The other thing of value is that you mentioned alloys, which indicates that you are aware that the composition and properties of the metals can differ as needed. We currently have some materials that show significantly different properties when exposed to different types of forces. Pressing slowly will allow easy deformation, pressing rapidly causes hardening. One example you can make at home is cornstarch in water. Another interesting group of materials are the memory metals, which can be deformed and return to shape upon application of the correct stimulus. Yet another is what are called ferrofluids which can go from highly fluid to nearly any immobile on application of a magnetic field. This suggests that there are several ways that the warframe could develop that bulletproofing which would be important to them. 

And these are relevant because? No matter how crazy the Orokin were, there would be no lore reason to suggest they would try some extremely convoluted protection method on something that would be mass produced for war.

Those aforementioned materials do not "jiggle" in any way, except perhaps the Ferrofluid. Cornstarch mixture deforms when bent by anything not a sudden impact. Memory metal, or rather "Shape-memory alloy" deforms when under normal temperature, while returning to its shape because of a phase change when heated. Since permanent deformation is required of its purpose until heated (the only stimulus for a phase change), no, this is hardly relevant.

Ferrofluids are not really immobile per se, they are just distorted by magnetic fields. They are still quite fluid (and are used for lubrication) and not very useful for protection even under such application of magnetism.

Many materials with "strange properties" that you speak off wouldn't have the necessary jiggle physics to them, since it requires a low deformation resistance but a high resistance to permanent shape change.

8 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Since we have materials in game that behave very differently from our current real world analogues, and only a vague idea of what materials are in the warframes, there's no way for us to say what type of alloy that "sword steel skin" is made from or what properties it would have.

This is your only actually relevant statement, really. But there would be no reason, as I said earlier, to believe the Orokin would go out of their way to make some convoluted high tech armor with a higher possibility of failure when evidence has suggested they are more than willing to go back to the basics if confronted with an insurmountable problem (like when they fought the Sentients and used basic bullets and swords).

Also, none of the swords in game have any evidence of your "vibrating" sword absorbing impacts (and again, swords vibrate at HIGH FREQUENCY when they clash, they don't jiggle). When the skin is described to be of "sword steel", most likely it is a metaphor to indicate its hardness upon impact. A sword without hardness cannot keep an edge and will deform against striking something.

Hence, equally speaking, it would be silly to make the assumption that the Orokin would engineer all sorts of ridiculous, unneeded properties into whatever alloy that they use to make their Warframes. No matter how impractical or stupid they were, it appears their vanity is not actually as unsurpassable as we once thought.

8 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Looks like your protests might not be as final as you seem to be thinking. 

You are simply scraping the bottom of the barrel here to simply continue the argument, actually, by linking less and less relevant details while trying to use the "but it is possible, no matter how unlikely" card and semantics.

Look, I won't really say no to Jiggle Physics on Saryn but it just seems pretty out of place to make the computer calculate more visual fluff for something you wouldn't notice in the whole swarm of particles and bright flashes everywhere. Fanservice is all well and good, but not in such a setting anyway.

It's not even unnecessary engineering for the Orokin. It's completely foolish to think DE would implement something players wouldn't see unless they go out of their way to trigger it. 

If DE had the time or want for fanservice, you'd think we would have big tiddy goth GFs as the operator, not some ugly loli.

Edited by Datam4ss

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Le 24/05/2019 à 22:37, (PS4)JaysInc_ a dit :

O3wyrN0.png

Bonus points if you remember those topics that flooded GD

Well i guess that Hyldrin need a compagnon...

😁

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1 hour ago, Datam4ss said:

Again, you confuse/purposely conflate "vibration" with "jiggle". This is mere semantic play, not an actual argument. The term "jiggle" as used with "jiggle physics" is not a high speed vibration as you would see on a drum skin or similar (the thunder sheet you speak off is similar to one, except being bigger it vibrates slower and produces a lower pitch)

Also, a thunder sheet is necessarily tensioned against a frame, which prevents permanent distortion as the frame itself cannot change shape easily. If you took the metal skin out of the frame/its support, you will see it bend.

You can also check out the wikipedia images of a Thunder Sheet. I see some ... dents!? What happened to "no folding/deformation"?

https://youtu.be/2sy2kVcYQl8

https://youtu.be/LWuTB8mJwPM

https://youtu.be/ZMMA8G6atv0

You should have paid better attention to the Wikipedia article that mentions that you can shake them. 

Other than that, nice attempt. 

1 hour ago, Datam4ss said:

And these are relevant because? No matter how crazy the Orokin were, there would be no lore reason to suggest they would try some extremely convoluted protection method on something that would be mass produced for war.

Oh, you know it's just because people are currently able to make safety gear out of them, and they are also being looked at for possible uses in construction where objects like bridges may benefit from their ability to change properties drastically:

The D3O team has also worked extensively with the US and UK defense forces, police and emergency services to provide protective and comfortable clothes.

At the U.S. Army Research Laboratory (ARL) in Aberdeen, Maryland, Eric Wetzel has been studying shear thickening fluids for the past 15 years and holds patents on several techniques and products.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/could-strange-fluid-prevent-concussions-180965272/#Yooqp7ftGVolpFRA.99

Isn't science, grand? 

1 hour ago, Datam4ss said:

Cornstarch mixture deforms when bent by anything not a sudden impact.

That's rather the point, you see. Put some with the right consistency in a balloon and it definitely will jiggle quite nicely. Until you hit it and then it won't for an instant, but it will start to do it again soon after. Also remember those nifty links above. 

 

1 hour ago, Datam4ss said:

Ferrofluids are not really immobile per se, they are just distorted by magnetic fields. They are still quite fluid (and are used for lubrication) and not very useful for protection even under such application of magnetism.

Depends on whether it is constrained or out in the open. I'd suggest connecting two syringes each half filled such that they flow into one another via a short delivery tube. The ferrofluid will normally flow readily from one to the other. Unless, that is, you bring a strong magnet near the delivery tube. 

Neat little experiment if you have never done it before. Pretty cheap to do as well. 

1 hour ago, Datam4ss said:

Many materials with "strange properties" that you speak off wouldn't have the necessary jiggle physics to them, since it requires a low deformation resistance but a high resistance to permanent shape change.

I presented you with three, which despite your claims all meet those requirements. Oh, did I forget to mention the memory metals? Well see I figure that you're right that the current ones do require heating, but I also know two things, first is that a long time ago we figured out how to heat something rapidly and then cool it off rapidly as well. The substance being heated and cooled is often milk but juice can be done as well. The second is that if you subject a spot on your body to a solid blow or damage, the area often warms as part of a natural immune response. I don't know of any reason why they'd have lost that response. 

There's no particular reason I can see for why it would have to take a particularly long time to heat up and then cool the spot that's been damaged meaning that the deformation could be undone near instantaneously. 

1 hour ago, Datam4ss said:

This is your only actually relevant statement, really. But there would be no reason, as I said earlier, to believe the Orokin would go out of their way to make some convoluted high tech armor with a higher possibility of failure when evidence has suggested they are more than willing to go back to the basics if confronted with an insurmountable problem (like when they fought the Sentients and used basic bullets and swords).

Surely you mean low tech. Very low. As in, the type of low that would exist currently. See the links above. 

 

1 hour ago, Datam4ss said:

Also, none of the swords in game have any evidence of your "vibrating" sword absorbing impacts (and again, swords vibrate at HIGH FREQUENCY when they clash, they don't jiggle). When the skin is described to be of "sword steel", most likely it is a metaphor to indicate its hardness upon impact. A sword without hardness cannot keep an edge and will deform against striking something.

I have only seen one sword break in the game. Old blacksmiths figured out how to make the sword springy just by looking at the colors of the metal on heating. You'd want the body to be somewhat blue, and then you would beat the heck out of the edges where you want the blades to be sharp. You see they knew that repeatedly hammering it would get the edge to work harden nicely. It seems that there are people who no longer understand that a single piece of metal can be made to have parts with different properties, and that doing that is actually beneficial for the designed purpose of the object. 

1 hour ago, Datam4ss said:

Hence, equally speaking, it would be silly to make the assumption that the Orokin would engineer all sorts of ridiculous, unneeded properties into whatever alloy that they use to make their Warframes. No matter how impractical or stupid they were, it appears their vanity is not actually as unsurpassable as we once thought.

Oh, it's the Orokin. Overengineering to add ridiculous properties is their hallmark after all. 

1 hour ago, Datam4ss said:

You are simply scraping the bottom of the barrel here to simply continue the argument, actually, by linking less and less relevant details while trying to use the "but it is possible, no matter how unlikely" card and semantics.

Good attempt, really nice. Not actually backed up by science. Your best bet was probably to stick with the semantics of what counts as a jiggle vs wobble vs vibration. 

One way or another, you were presented with vibrating steel in swords, a lamina of steel that definitely wobbles/jiggles, fluid body armour that jiggles, a fluid that changes properties on application of a force other than just shearing force, and ways that metal, when deformed, can self-heal. 

The best advice that I can give you is to pass on what someone told me. I'll paraphrase: trying to sound smart is well and good, but it doesn't actually raise your IQ. 

 

Better luck next time, Tenno. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

https://youtu.be/2sy2kVcYQl8

https://youtu.be/LWuTB8mJwPM

https://youtu.be/ZMMA8G6atv0

You should have paid better attention to the Wikipedia article that mentions that you can shake them. 

Other than that, nice attempt. 

Oh, you know it's just because people are currently able to make safety gear out of them, and they are also being looked at for possible uses in construction where objects like bridges may benefit from their ability to change properties drastically:

The D3O team has also worked extensively with the US and UK defense forces, police and emergency services to provide protective and comfortable clothes.

At the U.S. Army Research Laboratory (ARL) in Aberdeen, Maryland, Eric Wetzel has been studying shear thickening fluids for the past 15 years and holds patents on several techniques and products.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/could-strange-fluid-prevent-concussions-180965272/#Yooqp7ftGVolpFRA.99

Isn't science, grand? 

That's rather the point, you see. Put some with the right consistency in a balloon and it definitely will jiggle quite nicely. Until you hit it and then it won't for an instant, but it will start to do it again soon after. Also remember those nifty links above. 

 

Depends on whether it is constrained or out in the open. I'd suggest connecting two syringes each half filled such that they flow into one another via a short delivery tube. The ferrofluid will normally flow readily from one to the other. Unless, that is, you bring a strong magnet near the delivery tube. 

Neat little experiment if you have never done it before. Pretty cheap to do as well. 

I presented you with three, which despite your claims all meet those requirements. Oh, did I forget to mention the memory metals? Well see I figure that you're right that the current ones do require heating, but I also know two things, first is that a long time ago we figured out how to heat something rapidly and then cool it off rapidly as well. The substance being heated and cooled is often milk but juice can be done as well. The second is that if you subject a spot on your body to a solid blow or damage, the area often warms as part of a natural immune response. I don't know of any reason why they'd have lost that response. 

There's no particular reason I can see for why it would have to take a particularly long time to heat up and then cool the spot that's been damaged meaning that the deformation could be undone near instantaneously. 

Surely you mean low tech. Very low. As in, the type of low that would exist currently. See the links above. 

 

I have only seen one sword break in the game. Old blacksmiths figured out how to make the sword springy just by looking at the colors of the metal on heating. You'd want the body to be somewhat blue, and then you would beat the heck out of the edges where you want the blades to be sharp. You see they knew that repeatedly hammering it would get the edge to work harden nicely. It seems that there are people who no longer understand that a single piece of metal can be made to have parts with different properties, and that doing that is actually beneficial for the designed purpose of the object. 

Oh, it's the Orokin. Overengineering to add ridiculous properties is their hallmark after all. 

Good attempt, really nice. Not actually backed up by science. Your best bet was probably to stick with the semantics of what counts as a jiggle vs wobble vs vibration. 

One way or another, you were presented with vibrating steel in swords, a lamina of steel that definitely wobbles/jiggles, fluid body armour that jiggles, a fluid that changes properties on application of a force other than just shearing force, and ways that metal, when deformed, can self-heal. 

The best advice that I can give you is to pass on what someone told me. I'll paraphrase: trying to sound smart is well and good, but it doesn't actually raise your IQ. 

 

Better luck next time, Tenno. 

Again, I will just say, if you wish to keep playing the semantics game just to justify your "obsession with jiggle" rather than typical "vibration", we will get no where at this rate. The way metal shakes is unlike what you would call "jiggling" in terms of "jiggle physics". A metal sheet shaped in a certain manner does not have free three dimensional shaking since metal by nature does not really have that high capacity to return to its shape after stretched or compressed (this is why exceeding the Hooke limit permanently distorts a spring and metal is ductile enough to be pulled into a wire) unlike say, jelly or ballistic gel. A square sheet can bend along two axes coplanar to the surface, but try to "bend" with the perpendicular axis as the centre of rotation? This is why, even then, thunder sheets are irrelevant.

So long as the base definition of "jiggle" here is different, this argument will get nowhere. The mechanical properties of all you speak of do not have any direct linkage to jiggling - unless taken to its logical extreme, which requires multiple leaps of logic. The same is for your ferrofluid - it's in two rigid systems, really. Everything is "hard", there is no soft components. This is why I say you are using examples that are not directly relevant.

Also, the Orokin engineering to add ridiculous properties kinda falls flat. Their overengineering tends to be to make the thing "aesthetic" and "shiny" over being "functional". The physical properties of their basic technology like metal doesn't seem to have changed in any way.

Your actual argument is simply (because the examples you give are pretty far fetched anyway):

  • "Given multiple assumptions, possibilities and leaps of logic which coincidentally line up, there can be (my definition of) jiggle."
  • "Orokin like to gild and make everything over the top fancy, so it is possible that they stuck to the multiple assumptions."
  • "Hence, there would be jiggle"

I have yakked about science with you, but I do admit, maybe you are a physics/engineering nerd and know more about material physics than me. I am a biology student after all, so my physics knowledge is as limited as things come. I will concede that it is possible, given all the void magic and weird technology, but I simply find it far fetched and overly silly when it comes to "in game science". It is like doing too much for too little return. The whole Orokin schtick seems to lean more towards "overcomplicated grand contraption that is meant to achieve an equally overcomplicated, grandiose objective", not "rube goldberg machine".

This is as far as the science argument goes.

Also, regarding the statement of " trying to sound smart is well and good, but it doesn't actually raise your IQ", when I made this, it is only in reference to your comment on the thick spring, because you and I both know the actual purpose of said spring and the load it is designed to bear. Making a lame joke to try and sound smart is indeed under the realm of "trying to sound smart doesn't actually increase your IQ", because a lame joke is what it is, which is a lame, unfunny joke with no link to the topic, made by a Smart Alec who isn't actually smart, just lame.

If you want to take the statement out of context and feel triggered by it, that's up to you man. I did not plainly dismiss your other arguments because they are not a lame joke and you provide proper evidence. The thick spring image was was stupid, and you know it too.

But the truth is:

Regarding Jiggle Physics:

  • Jiggle Physics in game requires CPU processing, added bones to the animation skeleton and appropriate physics weighting.
  • Hence, Jiggle Physics takes Dev Time and may cause bugs (I am sure you will not disagree with this)

Regarding Implementation of Jiggle Physics:

  • Warframe is a game that has a lot of bright powers, guns, energy flying everywhere, particle effects and other vision obscuring things (staticor, simulor, Wisp beam).
  • Warframe is a game with fast movement, where you mostly look at your character's back and possibly Syandana.
  • Jiggle Physics that is not extremely exaggerated will not really be noticed under the high speed of gameplay and the lack of focus on the frame itself (debatable, but for a majority of players this is likely to hold true).
  • A majority of players (whether you or I do it is irrelevant) will not go out of their way to jiggle the frame (especially if it is just the fats on a fat frame).
  • Hence, Jiggle Physics adds little or nothing to the game

Hence, summing up:

  • Jiggle Physics adds little or nothing to the game
  • Dev Time is required to program it and it may cause bugs
  • Don't fix what isn't broken
  • Hence, no Jiggle Physics.

Which means:

  • All the science crap we threw at each other is useless and I wasted your time, you wasted mine. Which makes all the nerd arguments pretty idiotic either way.

 

Edited by Datam4ss

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Well I guess it is perfectly normal for the orokin to create fat ninja to fight the sentients lol.

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7 hours ago, ChaoticEdge said:

that depends on what type of armor of the steel is in, there are poor qualities of steel, mild, and high qualities of steel, if we go with poor qualities of steel they are easy to snap almost like pig iron except for its way tougher then pig iron, mild steel is basically what we use today for tools, cars, and several things, high qualities steel is one those hard steel like the beam of steel or either the actual tank that is plated steel armor.  There is steel can be used as a string bundle which they are either use for wielding or either use for certain tools (like a fish line which there is a fish can break steel cable wires).  Iron is in our bone so does animals and insects for I don't know ballistic fiber would sit on this one but consider it use iron or either from a goat that has DNA to be a golden spider thick web thread which the U.S.A had super upgrade version of the better ballistic fiber armor.

Pretty much can be flexible as steel, it just...the logic jiggling is confusing which none of the jigglings make any sense for it could be mercury metal or either one those metal that melts easy in-room temperature.

It’s just a metaphor, I think? Whatever Warframe skin is made of, it’s not literally analogous to any type of actual steel. 

“Hard as steel” is probably just meant to convey that to defeat Warframe skin you would need have weapons that could defeat hard armour similar to steel armour.

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On 2019-05-24 at 7:03 PM, darkbrick said:

well, if this fat frame always running around in plains of eidolon or orb vallis, im sure he will be thin frame again..

With all those tasty Grineer bothering him while he's trying to fish?

Naw. Big boi can maintain his wieght just fine

Ohhhh...it just occurred to me!!!

What if he gets even bigger when he's full? 😱 We only saw him on an empty stomach. Fill it with a bunch of enemies and...

OMG.

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19 hours ago, (NSW)Sk0rp1on said:

It’s just a metaphor, I think? Whatever Warframe skin is made of, it’s not literally analogous to any type of actual steel. 

“Hard as steel” is probably just meant to convey that to defeat Warframe skin you would need have weapons that could defeat hard armour similar to steel armour.

hmmm could be or they meant it at the same time.  Pretty much at this time I still wonder how the jiggling effect works on a fat guy....all thou we could line up syran of her well...jiggling melons 

Spoiler

1d2d3598e5113fbfc2d96c88198a642de0b7aa38

 

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On 2019-05-24 at 9:04 PM, MorradiX said:

He's not fat...just too short for that amount of mass....o.O 

 

*insert yo mama-joke here...* 😋

k.

*Yo mamma's so FAT,she don't need internet...she already WORLD WIDE!!!

btw,it looks exactly like a kuva guardian to me.

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Personally, would love to see a frame for each of the Deadly Sins (granted, a few we have are already good contenders) That, and Gluttony was a fun character in FMA:B. Though, Envy is still my favorite.

Sloth frame when?

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Call him "Reactor"

Make his abilities crazy huge visual slams and seismic booms.For a Warframe to be so big means he has some serious artillery hidden in there.  Give him like double mod capacity . Cuzz lets be honest. Like heck this big guy only ate one potato! 😛

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Japanese Oni are often depicted as a bit thick. So, it’s kind of cool they’re doing itvthat route. 

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Posted (edited)

Kuva Gaurdian / Onion Baby Frame ?

Edited by Cosmic_Elf

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Posted (edited)

On the argument about warframe skin being strong but flexible somehow, I can't help but get this one quote stuck in my mind

"Nanomachines, son."

 

Edited by VitasEtMortem
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On 2019-05-24 at 9:17 PM, Cubewano said:

Oh please nobody who used those arguments were being genuine, half the female frames in this game are done like barbies. They just weren't happy hildryn didn't look like the women they've only seen in posters. 

Oh this baloney again. Plenty of real women are skinny and healthy because that's just how we are.

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On 2019-05-24 at 9:36 PM, (PS4)The_LaBaDa said:

Very cool and nice Digital Extremes, thank you for this Vore-Frame. 

Atlas 2.0 , literally can not wait.

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-05-24 at 3:10 PM, Mez999 said:

I think we are missing a fat, sumo style frame. 

Although I’d imagine it would end up a bit like Rhino. A charge mechanic, body slam, burger throwing. That kind of thing. 

And that will be boring as hell.....how many armor strippers, CC or other 'support' type frames do we need?

Can we have a well rounded offensive/tank type frame? One who has decent damaging offensive abilities and ok defense, such that he doesnt get 1 shot by every random shot that flies his way?

Edited by KnightCole
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