Relic griefing is becoming a serious problem

[A_Big_Crocodile]

I've been having it happen more and more recently that, when playing with randoms, the host deliberately interrupts the connection in an endless mission right before the relic reward selection comes up, resulting in a host migration which COMPLETELY FORFEITS ANY REWARDS.  It's so #*!%ing annoying.  I lost "garbage" relics, but also radiant relics, including the limited edition Saryn/Spira relics and Axi relics.  This needs a very thorough rework.  Because if this continues to happen I will quit playing warframe much sooner than I've planned.

I've made a post about this before.  Host migration is a very serious weakness of the game.  And I'm quite sure that DE at this point has enough money to throw at the game to rewrite the netcode and put up dedicated servers.  Like any other game worth its salt.

[krc473]

Just now, A_Big_Crocodile said:

Like any other game worth its salt.

Many games use P2P without issues. This system is staying in WF. I imagine it would be a substantial amount of effort to make dedicated servers. Besides, do we actually need dedicated servers? What about DE just fixing host migrations, that would be perfectly sensible. I don’t know which is easier.

 

Why do you think the host is doing this on purpose? Surely it could just be accidental, on your or the hosts part.

• i have done countless runs, not once has this happened. I have good internet though.

[A_Big_Crocodile]

If it were on my end then it would have been just me disconnecting from the session.  But I was left with the other three players, none of us got anything.  I've seen this happen enough times now to recognise a pattern.  Play 5 rounds of defense/5 minutes of survival, whatever, wait for the timer to count down, then cut the connection.  The game will instantly switch hosts and forfeit the reward screen.  It's classic griefing.

And host migration can only be eliminated by having the game hosted on DE's end, not by the players through p2p

[WhiteMarker]

7 minutes ago, A_Big_Crocodile said:

And I'm quite sure that DE at this point has enough money to throw at the game to rewrite the netcode and put up dedicated servers. 

Yeah... no...
You have no idea how things work. Servers are expensive...

8 minutes ago, A_Big_Crocodile said:

the host deliberately interrupts the connection

I would really want to see your evidence.

[A_Big_Crocodile]

1 minute ago, WhiteMarker said:

Yeah... no...
You have no idea how things work. Servers are expensive...

I would really want to see your evidence.

Are you seriously expecting me to trace my internet connections to everything at all times?

[KochDerFrettchen]

3 minutes ago, A_Big_Crocodile said:

Are you seriously expecting me to trace my internet connections to everything at all times?

 

14 minutes ago, A_Big_Crocodile said:

the host deliberately interrupts the connection in an endless mission right before the relic reward selection comes up, resulting in a host migration which COMPLETELY FORFEITS ANY REWARDS

 

10 minutes ago, krc473 said:

Why do you think the host is doing this on purpose? Surely it could just be accidental, on your or the hosts part.

• i have done countless runs, not once has this happened. I have good internet though.

 

[WhiteMarker]

18 minutes ago, A_Big_Crocodile said:

Are you seriously expecting me to trace my internet connections to everything at all times?

 You said they would to it on purpose. This means you have evidence. Provide it.

[A_Big_Crocodile]

Look, sherlock, I don't have solid proof.  But everytime it happened it happened exactly the same way, thus there is a pattern.

[krc473]

9 hours ago, A_Big_Crocodile said:

Look, sherlock, I don't have solid proof.  But everytime it happened it happened exactly the same way, thus there is a pattern.

'Every time' could be twice. This could easily be down to chance. You have failed to provide any information at all the backs up your claim. Have you had this happen in exactly the same way 100 times? You need to provide numbers, or evidence if you want people to believe you. You haven't even provided a basic speed test for your own connection.

 

Regardless, this wont change anything at all. 

[Sloan441]

55 minutes ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

Host migration is a pain in the arse.. losing progress is no fun at all

It can be, but I really haven't had a failed migration in some time. 

I'll risk migrations under a variety of circumstances, but if you've gotten something you really wanted, then I'd bail at the first opportunity. It's the only way to be sure. 

16 hours ago, A_Big_Crocodile said:

Look, sherlock, I don't have solid proof.  But everytime it happened it happened exactly the same way, thus there is a pattern.

Because anecdotes are definitive proof of bad behavior.

I'll tell you when you do see a trend and that's if your ping is running high (250ms+) between you and the host. You see that, I'd be getting ready to either leave at the first opportunity or just ditch the mission first thing. You are risking migrations issues in this circumstance. 

[Buttaface]

Have had it happen where the host successfully cancelled out the Wolf mask everyone was excited to get (I already had it). That particular migration crashed the entire session. Couple of other times has happened in void defense at just the proper moment to be coincidence. Have had hosts attempt to do it at the proper moment and not do it correctly. It happens and I agree with OP it needs to be fixed.

Thread is great at ferreting out DE white knights/FB friends/PR and general trolls who hop into threads and try to debate or dispute any feedback just to be unnecessarily adversarial and argumentative. Of course there's not any way to "prove" this, a child could tell you that, yet here comes the PR defense squad. If you haven't experienced it, good for you. Doesn't in any way negate others' experiences.

Edited May 26, 2019 by Buttaface

[Chaemyerelis]

What if you set a lower ping limit in the game options. Does it still do it?

[PatternistSlave]

21 hours ago, A_Big_Crocodile said:

I've been having it happen more and more recently that, when playing with randoms, the host deliberately interrupts the connection in an endless mission right before the relic reward selection comes up, resulting in a host migration which COMPLETELY FORFEITS ANY REWARDS.  It's so #*!%ing annoying.  I lost "garbage" relics, but also radiant relics, including the limited edition Saryn/Spira relics and Axi relics.  This needs a very thorough rework.  Because if this continues to happen I will quit playing warframe much sooner than I've planned.

I've made a post about this before.  Host migration is a very serious weakness of the game.  And I'm quite sure that DE at this point has enough money to throw at the game to rewrite the netcode and put up dedicated servers.  Like any other game worth its salt.

Ordis is supposed to send you a mail with your rewards.  Any time it uses a relic you're supposed to get your reward regardless.  I doubt people are doing this on purpose btw.  Proly just impatient standing on extraction.

[(NSW)Hatemachine]

Ive had this drop issue here & there & yes SOMETIMES you dont get the reward in your box, it seems to happen when the host player drops the game, on Switch it happens this way when the host closes the game out on the Switch Dashboard leaving the players in a host migration limbo, if you restart your game you have a 50 - 50 chance of the relic rewards you earned being in your inbox, it depends on how the host drops party.

It could also be a lag glitch where the host player is actually ahead & is leaving party as soon as possible while everyone else is getting lagged out, Host drops party as soon as theyre in the orbiter while everyone else is still at the rewards screen.

I would suggest getting a friend or 2 to test the theory that you in fact CAN do this, then bug report the living f#*k outta this, youd be doing yourself, DE & the community a massive favor in exposing a possible bug/exploit.

[Rhyandra]

Am 25.5.2019 um 22:33 schrieb WhiteMarker:

Yeah... no...
You have no idea how things work. Servers are expensive...

 

Says "you have no idea"
>Warframe has been one of the most popular games in the world since it actually came out

>Smaller indie companies set up dedicated servers for their games

See a pattern? It's only for business. They can, but they don't. Wanna guess why? 🙂 I bet you have grown that much that you can at least try!


I swear if this game was published by EA or Activision a frickton of people would flame every single day in the forums for how greedy they are for not putting up dedicated servers. Fanboying DE in this case doesn't benefit ANYONE and there's NO excuse for DE for not doing it. The amount of reward loss is devastating and nothing is being done about it.

[(PSN)CodyXSavageX]

4 hours ago, Karu-QW said:

I swear if this game was published by EA or Activision a frickton of people would flame every single day in the forums for how greedy they are for not putting up dedicated servers. Fanboying DE in this case doesn't benefit ANYONE and there's NO excuse for DE for not doing it. The amount of reward loss is devastating and nothing is being done about it.

Only excuse DE has is that they are free to play and they don't have a consistent reliable way to pay for paying for dedicated servers 

If they had any plans to be able to afford dedicated servers that would be great to know

But I don't have access to DE's bank details so i'm just assuming

Edited May 27, 2019 by (PS4)CodyXSavageX

[WhiteMarker]

5 hours ago, Karu-QW said:

Says "you have no idea"
>Warframe has been one of the most popular games in the world since it actually came out

>Smaller indie companies set up dedicated servers for their games

See a pattern? It's only for business. They can, but they don't. Wanna guess why? 🙂 I bet you have grown that much that you can at least try!

We had this discussion already. Just look at the following thread:

 

[VanFanel1980mx]

Nowadays when someone is extracting early I just use the chat and literally say "Host Migration imminent", this is how things gonna roll, if I am the host I usually just go to the extraction point for a while to warn people and see if they are moving, otherwise I remind them of the risks, if they are cool with that I just do it.

[TaylorsContraction]

On 2019-05-25 at 4:33 PM, WhiteMarker said:

Yeah... no...
You have no idea how things work. Servers are expensive...

I would really want to see your evidence.

Not if they are hosted on the cloud. That's much cheaper and takes care of all hardware dev ops and even regional distribution.

[SilverRook]

yeh host them in the cloud with some of that "BIOWARE MAGIC" *waves wand*

 

dedicated servers for 4 player squads ? 

are you like..... serious?

you want to run virtual servers for each squad instance that is created ? 

 

The listen servers we have are fine.

 

 

[adry306]

P2P is fine, but isn't it possible to make it so migrating keeps every thing working? You know how it keeps nidus's stacks and stuff like that? It's probably i possible or hard to do or DE would've done it by now, just ignore me if what i'm saying is stupid or reply with the reason

[(XBOX)Hyperion Rexx]

Have to say in literally hundreds of fissure missions I've had this happen maybe 4-5 times, certainly never anything I would consider troll like behaviour. 

However, host migrations are a massive pain in the neck, especially in arbitration where the game keeps playing while you load in again meaning you're either dead or very close to dead by the time you can actually control things again.  

Why not just pause the game when HM occurs?  The game knows that it's happening, it surely can't be that hard to write a bit of code that pauses things for 30 secs when it does.

[xxdarrenxx]

1 hour ago, SilverRook said:

yeh host them in the cloud with some of that "BIOWARE MAGIC" *waves wand*

 

dedicated servers for 4 player squads ? 

are you like..... serious?

you want to run virtual servers for each squad instance that is created ? 

 

The listen servers we have are fine.

 

 

I think he means dedicated servers for hosting the instances in general. There are many games with millions of concurrently running instances with big multi connections like league of legends. Cloud (but really dynamic resource allocation based external hosting) is most efficient when load is highly dynamic.

This is not black and white offcourse, and perhaps their architecture does drives up cpu/ram usage quite hard into costly (unviable) server costs

It's hard to judge, if you know more than me, by all means share, but how heavy the game is on our machines is not representative of a dedicated server setup or indicative of how many instances a single physical server in a sane setup can run

I assume here that you also know that all what you see on your screen is always 100% load for a client no matter what model. Blowing stuff up or resource drop location mapping coordinates, is nothing more than (socketed) control messages of not even 1kb each.

A cloud hosting makes sense at least in the fact, that not every player is actually creating an instance every second. Many hang around in chat, wait for specific missions, are modding or are in the foundry amongst other things. These would not require any server resources, and a partial model of splitting instances from these more general game time ventures could also be a solution.

Edited May 27, 2019 by xxdarrenxx

[Sloan441]

21 hours ago, Chaemyerelis said:

What if you set a lower ping limit in the game options. Does it still do it?

Short answer? Yes. 

You might run into it less often, but sometimes you still get paired with people where your connection relative to them just isn't good. 

It's not just a high ping, it's where you can see and feel latency in whatever game you're playing in. If that's the case, then you're at increased risk of migration problems. 

The new UI doesn't help either. I'm still getting used to it, but keeping track of the party host has been more difficult of late. 

[Hobie-wan]

@A_Big_Crocodile

Are you dilly dallying around? People running relics usually want to crack it and go so they can run the next one. If you're going slow and opening all the containers in a public relic run, lots of people won't wait. It's one thing if you are a few traces short and say something but otherwise you should probably get a move on. If you are short but you're a ways from the end, then just go, there will surely be some on the ground on the way. If you're at the exit and 1 or 2 short, say something and people will probably wait while you backtrack just a little or kill a few more enemies.