Whats the point of having focus abilities if they keep getting restricted?

[Knight_Ex]

I'm getting really annoyed, I know not everyone has all their waybinds unlocked in focus tree, but those of us that did the grind and unlocked the content shouldn't have our kit restricted because it makes some of the content easier, case in point the Ropalyst tileset, there are times where the operator cannot use void dash,, I can understand during the fight itself to have some restrictions but if I can avoid those nullifying abilities then I should have that option, don't restrict my abilities because its seems "unfair" to other players, if that was the case no warframe abilities should be useable during that mission, because its basically the same thing, I can just as easily bring Titania and trivalize that entire mission, however I took the time to max out my focus tree's to allow me much more versatility when navigating, at this point its food for thought since I doubt anything will be done, however consider it for future content, if you can't think of any "lore" reason why my kit gets locked then don't do it since it just breaks the immersion.

Edited May 26, 2019 by Knight_Ex

[Moscatinka]

This is the nature of scripted boss fights. They purposely negate the skills you have built up while playing the game and force you to follow a recipe instead. Leave your creative thought and problem solving abilities at home because even if you think you have found an original way of beating the fight, your squad mates will most likely abandon you (or kick you in other games) as soon as they realize you're not following the recipe.

I think they are one of the worst inventions in gaming. A good boss fight should be a fight of attrition, one that you can't beat by simply killing it before it kills you like you do with trash mobs, because it has more health than you can burst on your energy pool (or mana or stamina or whatever the flavour in the game is). A fight without scripted 'phases' that force you to fight in a way that only applies to the specific boss, but rather one that forces you to hone your skills on lesser mobs before you can handle the big one. Such a fight forces you to actually use the skills you've learned playing the game, and invites to come up with different ways of beating it. Needless to say I loved the Wolf, that was a proper boss in my book before he got nerfed to the point where high dps frames could simply alpha (burst) him. Obviously it's not a popular opinion.

 

Edited May 26, 2019 by Moscatinka

[Jiminez_Burial]

5 minutes ago, Moscatinka said:

A good boss fight should be a fight of attrition, one that you can't beat by simply killing it before it kills you

I'm guessing this is a typo and it should be "A good boss fight shouldn't be a fight of attrition".

Edited May 26, 2019 by Jiminez_Burial

[auxy]

12 minutes ago, Jiminez_Burial said:

I'm guessing this is a typo and it should be "A good boss fight shouldn't be a fight of attrition".

Judging by the rest of his post I do think he meant "should be".He seems to be against "scripted phases" and what not. Then again, he also says "one that you can't beat by simply killing it before it kills you". So I don't know.

Anyway Knight_Ex, I haven't seen any issue void dashing outside of the boss fight; I've blitzed through the Ropapolyst's map at least 30 or 40 times. No issue.

Edited May 26, 2019 by auxy

[SoulEchelon]

34 minutes ago, Knight_Ex said:

I'm getting really annoyed, I know not everyone has all their waybinds unlocked in focus tree, but those of us that did the grind and unlocked the content shouldn't have our kit restricted because it makes some of the content easier, case in point the Ropalyst tileset, there are times where the operator cannot use void dash,, I can understand during the fight itself to have some restrictions but if I can avoid those nullifying abilities then I should have that option, don't restrict my abilities because its seems "unfair" to other players, if that was the case no warframe abilities should be useable during that mission, because its basically the same thing, I can just as easily bring Titania and trivalize that entire mission, however I took the time to max out my focus tree's to allow me much more versatility when navigating, at this point its food for thought since I doubt anything will be done, however consider it for future content, if you can't think of any "lore" reason why my kit gets locked then don't do it since it just breaks the immersion.

 

The reason why it's restricted is so that players can't just void dash right over to the pylons. The "dodging the electric current on the wires" phase is supposed to be part of the battle. I figured that out the second I tried to do it myself and failed. I doubt it has anything to do with being "fair" to other players. Especially since you have to beat the Chimera Prologue before you can get to this fight. That means basically completing the game up to its current point. By now I'm sure such players know how to void dash and use their Tenno at least somewhat effectively.

Personally, I'm fine with it as an extra bit of challenge that isn't hard but gives the boss battle another dynamic layer. Fact is - DE at this point has realized we're all too damn powerful and the need to introduce these sorts of "puzzle" obstacles in boss battles is practically mandatory now.

You can still use your void dash and all your other evil Tenno powers practically everywhere else, including leading up to the boss and during the fight sans that particular moment. It's a small restriction that is sadly needed for that phase. Thus I personally see no problem with it.

[NocheLuz]

1 hour ago, SoulEchelon said:

The reason why it's restricted is so that players can't just void dash right over to the pylons. The "dodging the electric current on the wires" phase is supposed to be part of the battle.

I'll admit I never use those wires...

First I depleted it's shield. Then I 'Mount' Ropalolysts to the tower (pylons?), press 'E' to dismount. Then damage him like ususal. I see no real use of those wires.

Also, I do think the Tower is too far for Operator to void dash to it (with a lots of upgrade... maybe?)...

[Ephemiel]

26 minutes ago, NocheLuz said:

I'll admit I never use those wires...

First I depleted it's shield. Then I 'Mount' Ropalolysts to the tower (pylons?), press 'E' to dismount. Then damage him like ususal. I see no real use of those wires.

Also, I do think the Tower is too far for Operator to void dash to it (with a lots of upgrade... maybe?)...

With the upgrades, it's actually much faster to traverse with void dash even in open world areas than even Archwings.

[Test-995]

I'd rather choose fight of preparation than attrition.

[Bagadyr]

It may not happen all the time, but I managed to void dash to pylons after his scream. But you must get there before he gets there. You go into void mode after you break his synovia, wait for scream and immediately dash to pylons. 

With full energy, having unlocked dash speed and extra energy you can reach it without using energy pads. 

Edited May 26, 2019 by Bagadyr

[Iludra]

I believe they're forcing you to walk on the ropes instead of dashing, so that you can't complete this fight in 0.3 seconds. Frustrating, yes.

[Jiminez_Burial]

4 hours ago, NocheLuz said:

Also, I do think the Tower is too far for Operator to void dash to it (with a lots of upgrade... maybe?)...

With a max Operator energy pool you can dash 7 times.  With a max Mind Sprint (increase Void Dash speed) you can cover the distance from the center platform to the tower in two dashes.  For a proper comparison of how far a maxed out burst of Void Dashes can take you, I can cover the distance from where you're dropped off after defeating the Ropalolyst to the extraction platform in almost exactly the 7 Void Dashes.  You're only just short when doing this, but the distance you can move forward while falling as the operator (which isn't far at all) will get you on to the extraction platform easily all before it breaks and the rest of the squad can start moving down the wires.

[FlusteredFerret]

I think as well as being DE's way of making these fights more challenging, its also a classic fantasy / sci-fi ploy, whenever you have protagonists with special powers / abilities. Something always happens which causes them to lose their powers, or the boss enemy is immune to them, to introduce some extra jeopardy. So while they can casually see off lesser enemies without breaking sweat, they really have to work for their ultimate victory.

For example, in LOTR the Ring Wraiths can still see Frodo when he's wearing the ring. In Star Wars (Phantom Menace) Watto tells Qui-Gon that his Jedi mind tricks won't work on him.

 So DE are just borrowing an old trick, really.

 

[Talinthis]

Just keep spamming void dash it will work eventually. I always zenurik dash over to each platform instantly 

[VanFanel1980mx]

9 hours ago, Knight_Ex said:

I'm getting really annoyed, I know not everyone has all their waybinds unlocked in focus tree, but those of us that did the grind and unlocked the content shouldn't have our kit restricted because it makes some of the content easier, case in point the Ropalyst tileset, there are times where the operator cannot use void dash,, I can understand during the fight itself to have some restrictions but if I can avoid those nullifying abilities then I should have that option, don't restrict my abilities because its seems "unfair" to other players, if that was the case no warframe abilities should be useable during that mission, because its basically the same thing, I can just as easily bring Titania and trivalize that entire mission, however I took the time to max out my focus tree's to allow me much more versatility when navigating, at this point its food for thought since I doubt anything will be done, however consider it for future content, if you can't think of any "lore" reason why my kit gets locked then don't do it since it just breaks the immersion.

DE has been on a crusade against anything that is not just damage for a while now, CC nerfing, high enemy damage, energy leech eximus that take away your energy from a mile away, rift-proof enemies, Eidolons being immune to even damage abilities, Orb Mothers, the Wolf, etc., DE just doesn't like you to play the game with anything that isn't parkour and weapons.

[VanFanel1980mx]

3 hours ago, Iludra said:

I believe they're forcing you to walk on the ropes instead of dashing, so that you can't complete this fight in 0.3 seconds. Frustrating, yes.

Too bad the wires have a very wonky detection and require you to press the interaction key which is doable but annoying in some cases, this also applies to mounting the flydolon at the right moment, maybe the fight would be way better if you could skip the intro like with other bosses AND don't get cutscenes, it should just flow and allow you to anticipate your next move (while also fixing the annoying 1-hit lasers hitting you a split second after you regain control), there is no reason to not just lock the player who rammed flydolon into the lamp, fling the thing to the platform and then allow the player to move as soon as they reach the center of the arena, it is annoying even as a team to be placed in the middle of the stage and the crossfire just because the cutscene demands it, this is also true for the Exploiter Orb who usually puts the players VERY close to it and they take chip damage from its collision (the stepping legs) or the weapons.

[-AiLuoLi-]

To delude us into thinking that we're getting stronger but actually we're not, the enemies are. DE are the real orokin and we're being deceived.

[Ein0r]

Did they nerf it? I have issues void dashing straight to the extraction point after the fight, and maybe difficulties getting to the last electro platform once the main platform gets destroyed twice. But for the most part you can just double jump upwards, leave your frame and void dash over the ropes, so you will fall the last few meters down to the electro pillar.

[Kimimoto]

15 hours ago, Knight_Ex said:

if you can't think of any "lore" reason why my kit gets locked then don't do it since it just breaks the immersion.

There is a lore reason, Valkyr prime trailer has it

There's also a balance reason why they disabled everyones god powers, so they can actually have a fight that won't be cheesed in a second.