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Puncture Needs More Utility - Armor Reduction?


DeadlyNerd
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Sure, it kills 2 enemies instead of 1 if they're lined up, but that's all. Every gun can do that with a few more bullets and as if there aren't enough ammo packs laying around(this theory doesn't work so well for LMGs, but that's not the point).

 

What if puncture reduced armor with every shot. Tbh it IS puncture and it does PUNCTURE the enemy, as in go through it. Shouldn't armor be in the very least compromised?

 

If it did reduce armor per shot it'd work great with low damage high rate of fire weapons and there'd actually be a point in equipping Metal auger along with Shred, or at all.

Edited by DeadlyNerd
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That's a good idea however in game physics processing would be difficult to calculate the angle of each individual bullet, where it hit, how far it penetrated, etc.. But maybe they could do it generalized. That way each bullet reduced the mobs armor by 2% or so. It wouldn't be a huge difference, but for weapons that don't ignore armor, it would bring viability to a lot of weapons that currently aren't.

Great suggestion deadly nerd

Edited by Valtyr-06
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While we already have armor piercing instead of armor reduction, I have another idea. I think that puncture should actually puncture. Like going straight through enemy targets with more distance. This can help the bullet economy of many guns, especially those with maxed fire rate mods.

 

Having done a defense mission, I have observed that the enemies clutter together when they move to attack the Orokin Artifact (Cryopod, etc.). More puncture means more targets killed with less bullets. This is helpful late in high leveled defense missions where ammo is actually pretty scarce.

Edited by Yuzurukia
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While we already have armor piercing instead of armor reduction, I have another idea. 

This wouldn't be the same as armor piercing on a mod since weapons would build up the armor reduction as they shoot, giving advantage to everyone shooting the enemy.

Your idea is just buffing the effect.

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A high Puncture greatly increases your damage when it counts, which is when there are a lot of enemies closing in for the kill. If you hit 3 clumped enemies at a time instead of one, you are doing 300% damage. Its very common for enemies to line or clump up. You can also fire through cover. Even the ability to shoot through dying/flailing enemies is a huge boost in overall output.

That is enough of an effect already, it doesn't need an addl use. What it does need however is a serious cost reduction/stat buff to metal augur-line mods. Shred is priced right.

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Eh, I guess having Puncture do more would be nice, simply because it's always nice to do more, but honestly, now that Shred is in the game I like puncture a lot.  Previous puncture mods cost too much and didn't offer enough puncture for that cost.  Shred should be the standard for puncture mods going forward.  

 

Yesterday, when I did the forma alert, which was a Grineer mobile defense, Shred on my Soma was invaluable.  Huge packs of Grineer were constantly streaming in and Shred allowed me to mow them down much faster than I would have be able to otherwise.  Grineer were definitely swarming in faster than they ever do on Kappa or Kiste, but with a Shred-equipped Soma, they died that much faster.

 

Also, if you're playing a Nekros (like I am currently), Shred is your friend.  Other people complain that my Shadows block their shots.  I just shoot straight through them :)

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A high Puncture greatly increases your damage when it counts, which is when there are a lot of enemies closing in for the kill. If you hit 3 clumped enemies at a time instead of one, you are doing 300% damage. Its very common for enemies to line or clump up. You can also fire through cover. Even the ability to shoot through dying/flailing enemies is a huge boost in overall output.

That is enough of an effect already, it doesn't need an addl use. What it does need however is a serious cost reduction/stat buff to metal augur-line mods. Shred is priced right.

What is exactly the point of your reply? I based my OP exactly on the fact that killing 1(not 2, you're exaggerating) more enemy is not enough for puncture to be anything but situational and even then guns without it can perform just as good if the player has even a hint of brain matter in his head.

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The situation that i am referring to happens all the time, especially on infested or corpus. What levels are you playing that 3,4,5 enemies don't clump up or line up? try a T2/3 def, survival or any defense wave after 5.

My point is, I disagree that puncture needs a secodary effect. I use puncture on at least one of my weapons at all times because I feel it has a significant impact on my utility, more so than another elem mod.

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As evidenced by Shred mod, puncture is totally fine.

Now, if only someone from DE would actually care to buff Metal Auger to make it at least comparable with Shred...

 

At the moment, Metal Auger is twice less effective (even if we disregard +RoF on Shred) but costs TWICE as much.

Edited by JustDont
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Yeah, metal auger is just painfully useless when a single nightmare mode completed often yields shred.  If metal auger started at a mod level of 4 instead of 10, it could be viable.  Shred VASTLY out paces it in every way - so making it slightly cheaper to use the individual mod over the dual mod would be a good balance.

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Puncture also works well on my sentinel, shooting enemies through obstacles that I don't even notice. Also helps when an enemy has glitched through a wall during a defence mission.

And you wouldn't want it to reduce enemy armor as well? You just mentioned one of the situations when such armor reduction would work wonders in creating synergy between tenno and sentinel.

 

 

The situation that i am referring to happens all the time, especially on infested or corpus. What levels are you playing that 3,4,5 enemies don't clump up or line up? try a T2/3 def, survival or any defense wave after 5.

 

I'm saying that the bullet doesn't travel that far after the initial hit. You're not hitting more than 2 enemies with 1 bullet. I know because I tested it on kappa where they line up against the guardrail on the 3rd phase.

Edited by DeadlyNerd
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And you wouldn't want it to reduce enemy armor as well? You just mentioned one of the situations when such armor reduction would work wonders in creating synergy between tenno and sentinel.

 

 

I'm saying that the bullet doesn't travel that far after the initial hit. You're not hitting more than 2 enemies with 1 bullet. I know because I tested it on kappa where they line up against the guardrail on the 3rd phase.

 

 

As said, I agree that puncture should travel through more objects, or cost less, or a combination of the two.

 

With 1M puncture on a flux rifle...you'd be appauled at how many mobs can be killed in a small corridor. However, this has nothing to do with adding secondary effects. DE should just fix the stats on the mod. IMO it should start at .5m and go up to 1.5M for something like 6/7/8/9/10 points.

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As said, I agree that puncture should travel through more objects, or cost less, or a combination of the two.

 

With 1M puncture on a flux rifle...you'd be appauled at how many mobs can be killed in a small corridor. However, this has nothing to do with adding secondary effects. DE should just fix the stats on the mod. IMO it should start at .5m and go up to 1.5M for something like 6/7/8/9/10 points.

I dnno. It just feels a bit illogical that the damage of a projectile that pierces an enemy is still reduced by armor. Even with space ninjas, this doesn't feel right.

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I dnno. It just feels a bit illogical that the damage of a projectile that pierces an enemy is still reduced by armor. Even with space ninjas, this doesn't feel right.

 

agreed it makes no sense. i see what you're getting at.

 

EDIT: hopefully 'armor 2.0' will fix it :P

Edited by notionphil
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with armor 2.0 i don't know that it will need an additional effect.  But since we're talking about it.  How about it adds a scaling 5/7/9/11/15% armor ignore? that way it doesn't completely negate armor but it does reduce the amount of armor block when you shoot through an enemy

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Yeah, armor 2.0, forgot about that. Hopefully it addresses issues that cover this.

 

with armor 2.0 i don't know that it will need an additional effect.  But since we're talking about it.  How about it adds a scaling 5/7/9/11/15% armor ignore? that way it doesn't completely negate armor but it does reduce the amount of armor block when you shoot through an enemy

Actually that's not such a bad idea, but wouldn't do anything to aid the guns with high fire rate and low damage. You could just as well put it on high damage dealing guns and get a better effect.

My intent is to make it specifically aid a certain kind of weapon, rather than the broad spectrum.

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well  that depends.  because at the current moment even low damage weapons run into the armor wall.  this would allow it to take off 15% of the overall reduction. that means AP, fire, Electric, and ice damage would do more to their intended value.  atleast that's the way i would see it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I nearly started a new topic for this, but I think adding here would be appropriate.

 

Puncture on its own should be armor piercing. This may need to be balanced in some way, but it's highly intuitive.

 

You can't imagine my disappointment when I couldn't hurt a Corpus Crewman with a headshot with 0.4 puncture. Their helmets aren't 0.4m deep!

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