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Livestream #14 Feedback [Big Wall O' Text]


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Whilst the title may not seem like 'Gameplay Feedback' the Majority of this thread will be relating what was said in Livestream #14 to the game and its current state. First off I would like to say that I was very impressed with the devs, especially Scott, they acted very maturely and obviously acknowledged the choices that they made, which had somewhat of a detrimental effect on the game, and gave some very convincing arguments as to why they made those choices.


The main two things that caused contention in U10 were the Stamina re-work and the Golem (Now Lephantis) not replacing J3-Golem as it was originally intended to do. I'll firstly address them and then move onto the other things said in the Livestream.


Stamina: I personally didn't feel very effected by the changes, but I can understand that some saw it as a real blow to the game's fluidity and flow. I agree with what Scott said, that prior to U10 stamina was a non-entity; why bother paying it any notice when you knew it would refill in an instant and therefore have no effect on the gameplay. I've seen a couple of threads that suggest that 'If it's a system that doesn't do anything, why not just remove it?' If that approach is taken I think the diversity of the game might end up diminishing greatly, which would not be good. I like the idea that Stamina mods could actually be necessary and that a player could have a real dilemma choosing what mods to equip because they are all equally useful. This would give the game much greater diversity as, whilst there would be preferential ways of playing a frame, there wouldn't be one perfect way. I remember back in my days of playing Guild Wars it so often came down to looking on the internet for the 'best build' as some skill sets were just better in every way. This meant the game got very samey and you as the player were expected to fulfil certain roles and if you didn't well then...Get out... This eventually lead to the game coining the name 'Build Wars'

I agree that the initial changes to stamina were very drastic, but since then they have been fairly well ironed out. I think the people who are annoyed that the game suddenly changed so that they couldn't sprint forever forget that A) this game is in Beta and B) it was very easy prior to U10.


Golem and the Orokin derelicts: I was Very Very  annoyed at what was done with Golem and I must confess to posting some fairly vitriolic things about the changes. I want to clarify, the method of getting to the derelicts is not bad at its core, I do not think that it was too grindy and I wasn't annoyed that I would have to work for content. What really got me was that U10 did nothing for the core game, we can all agree that Warframe gets rather repetitive. I have always said that to fix this we need reason to do things passed getting more things to play with. I think Vor's Prize (AKA hopefully the start of actually story) will really go some way to remedy this. But something that is equally important is variation between planets and I was so pumped to see Jupiter get its own tile set like Phobos. But no. It was hidden away in what is basically a second rate Void. I understand that the game needs endgame, but before we deal with that we need core game. And as for endgame we have the void, why not do something more amazing in that. I always thought that the player should build a device to get into the void, similar to the one Vor uses in 'The Call' trailer, an infinite use object that is built from parts scavenged from each and every planet in the game; this would reinforce that this is endgame and make the use of keys a little more special. Keys would still be acquired as they are now. Once built, this 'Orokin Gateway' for lack of a better name, can be used to access the void. At the end of each mission the player is rewarded with a Tiered key fragment. To complete the key you must collect fragments from each gamemode; complete all gamemodes at Tier 1 you can build a Tier 1 key, at Tier 2 you can build a Tier 2 key etc. These keys can then be used to  access Orokin Void Assassinate; where the player and their cell must destroy the fabled 'Neural Sentry' a boss which would scale in both difficulty and rewards dependant on the tier of the key used.

But I digress the point is you have a system for endgame, I'd much rather you didn't use systems that were designed to rewrite old ones to try and do the job of one that already exists. The dev's reasoning was that if they had replaced J3 and made him drop Nekros parts then where would we get Volt. While yes, this is a good point, I don't think it justifies doing what was done.


Warframe tweaks: When Vauban came out I bought him with platinum on day one and my immediate thoughts were 'Bastille really needs an enemy cap'. I have been playing him avidly since then and consider him to be one of the best designed frames in the game (Bar his god awful idles). I completely agree with Scott that if you think 12 Enemies isn't enough, then go play Vauban and really think about it. He is a god of Crowd control, every single one of his skills has a CC utility so the fact that Bastille now can't hold an infinite number of enemies really isn't a big deal.

As for the other frames; I think some need a bit of tweaking and some need a complete redesign. Molecular Prime needs an enemy cap, Silence needs to be redesigned, all of Embers skills need to be made more unique, Snowglobe needs a damage cap, Invisibility should cloak your sentinel and Switch teleport needs to make enemies concentrate 'Friendly' fire on the target you switch with in the confusion, Psychic Bolts needs a complete redesign, Venom needs to be fixed, Trinity needs to be completely rethought (abilities and stats) and poor old Volt really needs some love.  


Upcoming Content: Alad V and his Pet were shown in the livestream along with Ruks new body mesh. I can't say much about any of these things as they aren't in-game yet and indeed Alad V and his Pet are just concept art. This does, however, lead me on to something that has been worrying me for a while. In livestream #13 Rebecca said that the Corpus Gas mining facility would be on Jupiter, I put this down to a mistake as at that point we thought that was where Golem was going. In livestream #14 it was once again said in passing that that is where it might end up. In the past DE has made some pretty silly errors when it comes to the solar system and I'm rather worried that they don't realise that Neptune, described as "Home of the Corpus and site of their indoctrination temples, Warframe and Robotics R&D hidden here", is also a gas planet. It also has more of a surface than Jupiter and it also not quite so ridiculously big (remember the size of an object effects its gravitational field strength). This would also fit fantastically with the existing content; as for those in the design council might have noticed something in one of the pictures we were shown that has something to do with aforementioned 'Warframe R&D'. Equally Neptune's current boss is hyena, a quadrupedal blue robot proxy, which is remarkably similar to what Alad v's Pet looks like. Hopefully I'm not making connections out of thin air and this is what is planned. But considering they said the Grineer settlement fitted well onto Phobos, because it is desert like... Yeah.. Phobos is barley bigger than a large detached house... It has next to no gravitational field and absolutely no climate it's just a big rock, surrounded by other rocks, floating in the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter, you can see my concern.



TL;DR The Stamina changes were necessary if not a little drastic, The Orokin derelicts were handled pretty poorly and the longing for endgame can be achieved with the Void and not the derelicts, all of the Warframes could use some work but that's something that can be done incrementally and DE either need to learn some more stuff about the solar system or start contextualising the decisions more. I thought that in general it was a very enjoyable stream, I must say that however angry I am with what you do with your game, I always find myself smiling at the interactions between everyone on the couch. I am very happy that you plan to let us in on what's coming up, more so, so that when a big change hits we won't be left quite as dumbfounded as we were with U10.

As always if you have any feedback, positive or negative, feel free to leave it below.

Edited by KitMan1973
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Re: stamina changes --


No, making sprint not take any stamina would not diminish diversity; rather, it's the exact opposite. In your very next sentence you say that you like the idea of stamina mods being required for some builds! That, by itself, diminishes diversity!


The old stamina system was fine, and it was even better before stamina was added. Players could freely choose how they wanted to move. Some wanted to rush, some wanted to go slow, some wanted to do lots of parkour, some liked using animation cancels. Now, you can't even do animation cancels, you have to equip stamina mods to even come close to how stamina used to be, and now more people than ever are using Zorencopter to get around the movement limitations.


Scott is just plain wrong about this change, and that's all there is to it.

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