Spring-Loaded Blade probably should be changed

[Persnoody]

I feel like Spring-Loaded Blade should be changed to function just like Berserker does.

Just a single 30% boost to range is so minor even on the highest range weapons. I tested Spring-Loaded Blade with my Cyath staff and only managed to get about 0.5m from it. I don't understand if there is some sort of balancing issue at play, but I'm pretty sure attack speed produces more dps than range (I understand that higher range allows for the "potential" for more dps since there're more targets "potentially" being hit).

I'm just putting this out there for discussion since the first time I used this mod I felt like it did nothing but take up space, please DE "fix" this mod.

I'd love to hear some good reasons why I'm wrong.

So here is my testing with my cyath polearm's range, 4m unmodded 9m primed reach 7m with riven 5.5m spring loaded 12m with reach and riven, and actually less of an affect than I thought, the primed reach with riven with spring-loaded I don't even gain 0.5m, it's more like a 0.25m gain, there must be some huge fall off that isn't mentioned anywhere, cause it doesn't really add up. Finally here is with primed reach and spring-loaded 10.25-10.5m, so the math kinda shows so long as you are under 12m.

I'll be completely honest, even if the Spring-Loaded mod worked as I think it should, I don't really have room for it in my build anyway, and I can understand if they set a soft cap at 12m range for melee, but what about the people without rivens, assuming you would be using this mod in the place of a riven, a max buff of 75% sounds quite fair to me, without a riven and even with primed reach you'd be under the soft cap, and I'm sure there are plenty of players even without primed reach.

If operating the way I think this mod should, it would allow for more players to become competitive, even by the smallest amount. Compared to how it operates now, this mod should really be a bronze, maybe silver in its current state.

Edited June 17, 2019 by Persnoody

[Lazarow]

its only 'good' on whips I had it on lecta and didnt know what mod to put in the D polarity slot and felt no differance at all. The bonus should stack as you suggested to 75-90%

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

They're talking about changing all range mods to fixed range increases and decreasing range overall.

This kind of makes sense - when I can reach enemies with my melee that I can't with a shotgun that doesn't feel right.

That all said it probably should stack, but doesn't because if it did you could stack it with Primed Reach and hit enemies on the far side of nearly every room on every tileset.

[Persnoody]

1 hour ago, (XB1)KayAitch said:

They're talking about changing all range mods to fixed range increases and decreasing range overall.

This kind of makes sense - when I can reach enemies with my melee that I can't with a shotgun that doesn't feel right.

That all said it probably should stack, but doesn't because if it did you could stack it with Primed Reach and hit enemies on the far side of nearly every room on every tileset.

When were they talking about changing the range value system? it may have been not that long ago, but I've only been back to the game for just under 3 months (couple year break).

Are whips that nuts with Range? My zaw gets 12m of range with my Riven (like 98% range on it, edit:92.8%) and Primed Reach, I thought that was pretty sizable. 

I can understand the reason you gave about why it isn't a more sizable buff, but it does seem like a pretty dumb thing to stop a mod from working the way it "should" (my opinion), at least in comparison with other mods of the same value range or buff type, the problem lies with the weapons that would be deemed "over powered" in the result of using it, which is what I assume is the reason they talked about the range rework in the first place, not for this exact reason, but I'm sure you get my drift.

It's just sad, it's a brand new mod and it's basically a collectible right now.

Edited May 27, 2019 by Persnoody
correction

[atejas]

2 hours ago, Persnoody said:

When were they talking about changing the range value system? it may have been not that long ago, but I've only been back to the game for just under 3 months (couple year break).

Sometime last year there was a picture in a devstream of Reach that added a fixed length value (something like 3-4 meters), not a percentage.

2 hours ago, Persnoody said:

Are whips that nuts with Range?

Not since they made melee weapons stop ignoring level geometry tbh. I barely see memewhips anymore, thank god.

[rapt0rman]

@Persnoody On the topic of switching over to flat range for melee, we already have the first flagship for it: 

[Persnoody]

On 2019-05-27 at 7:33 AM, rapt0rman said:

@Persnoody On the topic of switching over to flat range for melee, we already have the first flagship for it: 

Oh interesting okay, I actually have a few of that one, didn't really notice it, the funny thing is most of the damage I do in some maps is just bullet jumping and a melee swipe for the momentum (I get a lot of kills from this), but I'm not really seeing this worth slotting unless you are just doing bullet jump swipes all the damn time hahaha. Might be worth slotting on a Titania to get that extra Knockdown immunity chance, unless the stagger roll that you do in air is unrelated to knockdown procs, since the melee weapon is kinda worthless.

On 2019-05-27 at 6:08 AM, atejas said:

Sometime last year there was a picture in a devstream of Reach that added a fixed length value (something like 3-4 meters), not a percentage.

Not since they made melee weapons stop ignoring level geometry tbh. I barely see memewhips anymore, thank god.

From the sounds of it going to a fixed range value would be worst for already high reach weapons and amazing for close ranged weapons like claws and fist guards and whatnot, honestly the current system of a percentage seems more balanced.

So here is my testing with my cyath polearm's range, 4m unmodded 9m primed reach 7m with riven 5.5m spring loaded 12m with reach and riven, and actually less of an affect than I thought, the primed reach with riven with spring-loaded I don't even gain 0.5m, it's more like a 0.25m gain, there must be some huge fall off that isn't mentioned anywhere, cause it doesn't really add up. Finally here is with primed reach and spring-loaded 10.25-10.5m, so the math kinda shows so long as you are under 12m.

I'll be completely honest, even if the Spring-Loaded mod worked as I think it should, I don't really have room for it in my build anyway, and I can understand if they set a soft cap at 12m range for melee, but what about the people without rivens, assuming you would be using this mod in the place of a riven that has range on it (or with a riven that doesn't have range), a max buff of 75% sounds quite fair to me, without a riven and even with primed reach you'd be under the soft cap, and I'm sure there are plenty of players even without primed reach.

If operating the way I think this mod should, it would allow for more players to become competitive, even by the smallest amount. Compared to how it operates now, this mod should really be a bronze, maybe silver in its current state.

I'll have a laugh if the current version of Spring-Loaded Blade is actually not the intended product, and the final version of the mod wasn't actually pushed out with the update. Might just have to send in a bug report xD

Edited May 30, 2019 by Persnoody
extra thoughts

[atejas]

5 hours ago, Persnoody said:

From the sounds of it going to a fixed range value would be worst for already high reach weapons and amazing for close ranged weapons like claws and fist guards and whatnot, honestly the current system of a percentage seems more balanced.

The fact that the current range system disproportionately favours already long-ranged weapons is precisely what makes it unbalanced imo

[Persnoody]

5 minutes ago, atejas said:

The fact that the current range system disproportionately favours already long-ranged weapons is precisely what makes it unbalanced imo

I understand, I can see them doing an already naturally long weapon tax, but I don't know the company well enough right now to assume that they would do that.

I'm sure there will be plenty of balancing going on for melee 3.0, but at least for now this mod should be of some use to somebody.

I just had a funny thought, regarding my previous post about a melee range soft cap, and then looking at the testing I did with Atterax while I was testing my Zaw (obviously whips are in a longer range weapon class than polearms) I found that with all the range increasing mods I have I managed to get the Atterax to 12.5m with primed reach, then 13.5m with Spring-Loaded proc'd for an increase of only 1m, without primed reach it gives an increase of 2m. I have a feeling there is already a max range tax for the weapons (can't know for sure without an Atterax riven), which I'm honestly fine with that, but this mod shouldn't suffer because of it. It wouldn't be viable to use so many range extending mods anyway, you'd lose out on too much damage.

I'm only going into a fair amount of detail because if someone from DE happens to take a peek at this, they will get what I'm laying down.

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

On 2019-05-27 at 12:22 PM, Persnoody said:

Are whips that nuts with Range? My zaw gets 12m of range with my Riven (like 98% range on it, edit:92.8%) and Primed Reach, I thought that was pretty sizable

The Bronco's effective range is 8m. Plenty of melee weapons beat that, which is a little crazy given the actual weapon is only 2-3m long.

On 2019-05-27 at 3:08 PM, atejas said:

Not since they made melee weapons stop ignoring level geometry tbh. I barely see memewhips anymore, thank god

Yeah, spin to win sucked.

5 hours ago, atejas said:

10 hours ago, Persnoody said:

From the sounds of it going to a fixed range value would be worst for already high reach weapons and amazing for close ranged weapons like claws and fist guards and whatnot, honestly the current system of a percentage seems more balanced.

The fact that the current range system disproportionately favours already long-ranged weapons is precisely what makes it unbalanced imo

Seconded. Whole classes of melee weapons are just useless because only polearms, staves, heavy and whip weapons have that extra range.

DE want variety, not a fixed meta.

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

Agreed. This proposed change makes much more sense.

[Doomclaaw]

Here's a solution: make it so it doesn't work on the long range melee's. Then it has an actual purpose and they can buff it to match berserker without making a long range melee nightmare

[Persnoody]

20 hours ago, Doomclaaw said:

Here's a solution: make it so it doesn't work on the long range melee's. Then it has an actual purpose and they can buff it to match berserker without making a long range melee nightmare

Are there mods that are exclusive in the game like that (aside from the primary mod sets rifle/sniper/shotgun), the only exclusions I know of are on a per weapon basis.

My solution is more fair and effective than just not letting a group of weapons in the class be unaffected by this mod, having a long weapon tax kinda like how fire rate bonuses are doubled for bows (the bows in the case would be short weapons), also like I said in a previous post I doubt anyone would have enough room in any build to be able to stack every single range mod (riven included) and still be able to put out enough damage to make a weapon any more "op" than it already may be.

 

Basically either this mod needs to be de-ranked to silver or bronze, or actually have a bonus that matches its gold border and point value, normal bronze Reach is a 7 point value with a static 60% range bonus, this makes SLB look like a bad jokey gimmick of a mod that was only made because the person tasked with mods had to make a specific amount of mods for this new release. I'm not really as passionate about this mod as it seems, I'm just shocked that this mod would even exist the way that it does, with all the other mods we have.