Lotus Theories, Tying loose ends, and Amalgamate predictions [SPOILERS]

[mega_lova_nia]

So, the Jovian Concord is out, and as someone who isn't a master on warframe's storyline, there are a lot of loose ends i wanna discuss and some things that i wonder about :

• Who and what is the Lotus exactly, sleeper spy, a different entity, or 2 entities in one? Why did she keep using "we" not "i", and what use of growing the tenno if in the end she is going to destroy them? What happened to her pity exactly? tl;dr : what in the world is going on?
• Alad V is training amalgamates, but which amalgamates? There are these demolysts that he uses so surely that is the main unit he's training but what use of a seek and destroy algorithm in the future?
• Any wishes for the Lotus story line? maybe any predictions on what would happen with the Lotus as the story moves on or any predictions and thoughts on what might happen with them in the end?

[sleepychewbacca]

16 minutes ago, mega_lova_nia said:

Who and what is the Lotus exactly, sleeper spy, a different entity, or 2 entities in one? Why did she keep using "we" not "i", and what use of growing the tenno if in the end she is going to destroy them? What happened to her pity exactly? tl;dr : what in the world is going on?

A sentient mimic, forced into becoming the Lotus and caring for the Tenno. Everything Natah did as the 'Lotus' was not her choice, but supposedly brainwashing. Her original mission was to destroy the Tenno for the part we played in killing her people during the Old War. 

16 minutes ago, mega_lova_nia said:

Alad V is training amalgamates, but which amalgamates? There are these demolysts that he uses so surely that is the main unit he's training but what use of a seek and destroy algorithm in the future?

All Amalgams are a fusion between Corpus and Sentient. The 'partners' that Alad refers to are Sentients. The demolyst is probably a specialised unit to get info on how the Tenno operates, so our strategies can be studied and neutralised when we fight against them. 

16 minutes ago, mega_lova_nia said:

Any wishes for the Lotus story line? maybe any predictions on what would happen with the Lotus as the story moves on or any predictions and thoughts on what might happen with them in the end?

We have a final battle with the Sentients, and kill Natah once and for all. 

Edited May 28, 2019 by sleepychewbacca

[(XBOX)ShadowBlood89]

Lotus is the fabricated persona that was made to entrap Natah in as she was reprogramed by that lotus helmet.

Natah is a mimic that was sent as a spy to kill the orokin an then the tenno but somewhere down the line she only able to get the tenno to kill the orokin but before she could get chance to kill the tenno she was reprogramed an left in Lua as a countermeasure of sorts.

[SilentMobius]

30 minutes ago, mega_lova_nia said:

So, the Jovian Concord is out, and as someone who isn't a master on warframe's storyline, there are a lot of loose ends i wanna discuss and some things that i wonder about :

• Who and what is the Lotus exactly, sleeper spy, a different entity, or 2 entities in one? Why did she keep using "we" not "i", and what use of growing the tenno if in the end she is going to destroy them? What happened to her pity exactly? tl;dr : what in the world is going on?
• Alad V is training amalgamates, but which amalgamates? There are these demolysts that he uses so surely that is the main unit he's training but what use of a seek and destroy algorithm in the future?
• Any wishes for the Lotus story line? maybe any predictions on what would happen with the Lotus as the story moves on or any predictions and thoughts on what might happen with them in the end?

I think that Ballas modified Natah with whatever he had left of Margulis, under the cover of "making her more able to complete her task" and that the "Lotus" is that amalgam with the Natah side suppressed (by the systems connected to her helmet).

Ballas wanted the sneaky Natah with hints of Margulis back because the Lotus was proving waaay too maternal to the Tenno so he unplugged hy, but what he got was Militant-Sentient-Natah which is why he gave us the Paracesis.

I think that the current Militant-Sentient-Natah is her Amalgam personality swinging back the other way because she feels she was "brainwashed" by Ballas, but eventually she'll realize that both are a part of her.

I think It's no coincidence that Nahah thinks that amalgams are the way forward for the sentients and that this will cause a rift between her and the rest of her race at some point. IMHO this will result in a halfway-point Lotus/Natah that we can either choose to work with or not, advancing the plot without splitting the playerbase.

Edited May 28, 2019 by SilentMobius

[-STR-Lotus]

Natah speaks in contradiction I think he has a personality problem.

 

[-STR-Lotus]

9 minutes ago, (XB1)ShadowBlood89 said:

Lotus is the fabricated persona that was made to entrap Natah in as she was reprogramed by that lotus helmet.

Natah is a mimic that was sent as a spy to kill the orokin an then the tenno but somewhere down the line she only able to get the tenno to kill the orokin but before she could get chance to kill the tenno she was reprogramed an left in Lua as a countermeasure of sorts.

then how did Natah get caught or programmed or who.

[(XBOX)ShadowBlood89]

Just now, -STR-Lotus said:

then how did Natah get caught or programmed or who.

we lack that information as Natah hasnt in game said who had captured an reprogramed her.
Thus we have no idea either for all we know a kubrow could have spilled some coffee on her  

[SilentMobius]

1 minute ago, -STR-Lotus said:

then how did Natah get caught or programmed or who.

Unless there is a step we don't know about where Ballas fake-captured Natah and introduced her to the rest of the Orokin (Risking revealing his betrayal) I guess we have to assume that whatever changed Natah was Ballas.

[mega_lova_nia]

are there any hints that we can piece together?

any storyline parts that maybe support each theories or something?

[SilentMobius]

On 2019-05-28 at 9:53 AM, mega_lova_nia said:

are there any hints that we can piece together?

any storyline parts that maybe support each theories or something?

We are not expected to understand at this point, there is deliberately not enough information to make any concrete conclusions, this is DE's MO for story.

Edited May 29, 2019 by SilentMobius

[Skyz69]

1. Ballas claims Natah manipulated him.

I think Natah tricked Ballas when the latter force-modified her into the Lotus, to kill the other Orokin.

Ballas may have thought he was forcing Natah into the helmet, while Margulis was in the body. But Natah switched it around. 

When he removed the helmet, he thought would get Margulis - but it was Natah. 

2. Another loose thread - why did Ballas wait so long to remove the helmet?

IsHunhow's revival a factor? Perhaps Ballas did not expect the Lotus to spare the Tenno and have them as her guardians. If Ballas moved too early, the Tenno could have killed him.

Hunhow's revival gave Ballas the confidence that he could retrieve Margulis, while the Tenno were distracted with the Sentients. 

[Rider_Megalon]

Natah created Lotus as a way to get close to Tenno but Natah made  the Lotus to well and took over

[CriticalFumble]

Just throwing out a potential curve-ball here.  Not that any of the really good twists that occurred to me have come to pass, but still. 

What if this is all just a wildly desperate gambit on Lotus/Natah's part?  She'd been, allegedly, trying to suppress the growth of the Tenno because of what it would lead to; and also prevent the Sentient from re-awakening.  Having failed to keep the Tenno from growing towards danger, and keeping the Sentient from coming back, she had to come up with a new plan.  Ballas shows up, and the perfect opportunity drops in her lap. 

The Sentient will not stop trying to kill the Tenno (for potentially valid reasons).  With no option for peace, protecting her "kids" would require killing the Sentient first.  So she lets herself get recovered and promptly nudged us towards catching Ballas, who she'd torture to the point of turning on the Sentient, giving us the Sentient-slaying Paracesis.  She further acts like an indoctrinated Sentient with no sentimentality to encourage the Tenno to not try to avoid the fighting the Sentient out of consideration for the Lotus.  Her goal being to spark a genocide against her species so the Tenno can potentially have peace. 

Not that it'll work, obviously, but whatever is planned won't go "as planned" either. 

[Skyz69]

Critical fumble, that coul explain why things are only happening now, after Hunhow's revival, than earlier. Because the Sentient threat has increased. But why then increase the Sentient threat level, by creating Amalgams?

The other possibility is that it is all about drawing out the Man in the Wall. Provoke it to act during this crisis, and get everyone to see the threat from it.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

On 2019-05-28 at 4:46 AM, -STR-Lotus said:

then how did Natah get caught or programmed or who.

That’s the big question now...if the Orokin bested her at her own game and turned her mimicry against her by creating the Lotus and trapping her in Lua’s belly in a transference dream-state...

Then why did the drums trigger the systematic and complete slaughter of the Orokin Elite and cause the downfall of the entire civilization?

Is this new Natah also being controlled?

[Renegade343]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Then why did the drums trigger the systematic and complete slaughter of the Orokin Elite and cause the downfall of the entire civilization?

I mean, I suppose Ballas was involved in it somewhere.

[derLoko2]

Am 28.5.2019 um 10:49 schrieb SilentMobius:

I guess we have to assume that whatever changed Natah was Ballas.

I doubt it was Ballas. If it was him, he would've been more aware of the risks involved in freeing the Lotus - he's a smart guy after all. But he had no idea that her sentient-personality would return & that she'd turn on him like that.

edit:
btw something i never understood: How did the Lotus survive in the Void when she is sentient? Lua was in the Void, right? Did I miss something?

Edited May 30, 2019 by derLoko2

[TenStorms]

I have the problem, the time passed between the releases of story parts has become so huge, that i decided to just not be invested anymore with it.

Maybe we are the good or bad guys...who cares....just shoot things...

I had hopes after the second war quest, you get to choose "good", "bad" or "neutral" that this somehow has a meaning....3 (?) years later...nope...just shoot things...

[CriticalFumble]

7 hours ago, Skyz69 said:

Critical fumble, that coul explain why things are only happening now, after Hunhow's revival, than earlier. Because the Sentient threat has increased. But why then increase the Sentient threat level, by creating Amalgams? 

The other possibility is that it is all about drawing out the Man in the Wall. Provoke it to act during this crisis, and get everyone to see the threat from it.

The Amalgams are a good point, though if she feels its necessary to keep her cover and/or gain access to things necessary to her plan.  Depending on just how centralized the Sentient is, she may think its an acceptable risk - if by killing the core Sentient the threat is neutered, either by removing the instigators of the conflict or killing all Sentient minds and turning them into fragmented machines. 

Best possible execution, I think, would be to gain access to the most important Sentient linking device while baiting the Tenno to try chase you.  Bait them up to the link, then get them to channel the Void into the link, potentially killing all Sentients at once. 

There are some features I hadn't considered, like the MitW and the implications of the Amalgam projects.  It's possible that someone is trying to exorcise him by baiting us, as he's possibly the main concern the Sentient actually has.  It's also possible that the Amalgams are intended as a way to keep the Tenno from completely annihilating her species in a Void attack, though they may not actually be actual "Sentients" so much as just drone bodies that will go wild if there's no central Sentient mind anymore.  

In any case, we're going to see the Sentient tileset more than once, so it seems likely that we're not going to completely neuter the threat.  There's also the new faction coming eventually, there may be a tie-in there that throws a wrench in all this, too. 

[IntheCoconut]

Sentients work like a hive mind. It is my assumption that when the Mother Sentient finally returned, Natah's mind was brought back into the fold, just as Hunhow said she would be. Here is an interesting bit about Sentients from the Wiki:

Spoiler

• Across the various sources and legends mentioning them, the Sentients are, in multiple cases, referred to as having multiple bodies, heads, voices and pairs of eyes. This suggests that a singular "Sentient" is best understood as a single consciousness or guiding mind, inhabiting and controlling multitudes of bodies and platforms with limited independence. This could explain how, even though Hunhow's body was destroyed in the Old War, fragments of him remain, housing his mind so that he is not truly dead.

I do believe Lotus was a real personality, born either from absorbing Margulus' memories, or creating a will of her own. In any case, she stopped being Natah when she encountered the Tenno, and the Lotus was born. I suspect her feelings and actions toward the Tenno were genuine. Away from other Sentients and with a distance great enough to break her from the hive-mind, she was an individual, able to form her own thoughts, opinions, and emotions and free to act upon them.

But with the return of her Mother (which Natah might literally be a part/fragment of) she was linked back up to hive mind and the Lotus was replaced by Natah. So in essence, Natah does not have free will. Her mind and thoughts are those belonging to the Sentient Mother's, and not her own. The Lotus still likely exists within Natah, just suppressed and buried deep within Natah's Consciousness.

Edited May 30, 2019 by IntheCoconut

[Loza03]

Consider that she talks about being 'saved' by her family. But if she was brainwashed by them, she'd think that was being saved, since she'd be, y'know, brainwashed. And in the New War trailer, the voice is basically talking about how 'they' enslaved her. On the other hand, that voice might also have been telling the truth. Without a third party, there's basically no way to tell.

In short, we can't really tell.

[SilentMobius]

4 hours ago, derLoko2 said:

I doubt it was Ballas. If it was him, he would've been more aware of the risks involved in freeing the Lotus - he's a smart guy after all. But he had no idea that her sentient-personality would return & that she'd turn on him like that.

edit:
btw something i never understood: How did the Lotus survive in the Void when she is sentient? Lua was in the Void, right? Did I miss something?

I believe he was aware of the risks, but if I'm right that he fused parts of Margulis into Natah, He would most likely believe he had both area's covered. After all he betrayed the Orokin for the Sentients and He was Margulis' lover so he could easily believe he was somewhat safe.

Also, he was prepared to destroy the Orokin just to get a chance at something like Margulis back, I think he was very much willing to risk it all.

As far as the void goes, Natah is "New", she was "born" during the War (According to the dialogue before the Ropalolyst fight) and she comments that the void is "Still poison to our ancients" suggesting that the newer sentients have more resistance. In addition to that she was "Changed" by the void, possibly because she was already fused with some human qualities from the remains of Margulis

[T.Hoagie]

9 hours ago, derLoko2 said:

I doubt it was Ballas. If it was him, he would've been more aware of the risks involved in freeing the Lotus - he's a smart guy after all. But he had no idea that her sentient-personality would return & that she'd turn on him like that.

edit:
btw something i never understood: How did the Lotus survive in the Void when she is sentient? Lua was in the Void, right? Did I miss something?

If I was a betting man, and I am, we might want to look towards our favorite Dax Soldier/guide as to who would have been capable of disabling Natah and helping give rise to the Lotus.

We know he's programmed to obey the Orokin and or whoever wielded the Kuva staff. But even under the Grineer Queens control he was able to subvert that and help train our Tenno's in use of their void abilities. And he was near impossible to catch during that quest line, I highly doubt that was meant as merely game play mechanics.

He's dangerous, intelligent, hard to pin down and strong willed enough to subvert active programming and would know better then to fully trust Alad.

[Ephemiel]

On 2019-05-28 at 4:16 AM, mega_lova_nia said:

So, the Jovian Concord is out, and as someone who isn't a master on warframe's storyline, there are a lot of loose ends i wanna discuss and some things that i wonder about :

• Who and what is the Lotus exactly, sleeper spy, a different entity, or 2 entities in one? Why did she keep using "we" not "i", and what use of growing the tenno if in the end she is going to destroy them? What happened to her pity exactly? tl;dr : what in the world is going on?
• Alad V is training amalgamates, but which amalgamates? There are these demolysts that he uses so surely that is the main unit he's training but what use of a seek and destroy algorithm in the future?
• Any wishes for the Lotus story line? maybe any predictions on what would happen with the Lotus as the story moves on or any predictions and thoughts on what might happen with them in the end?

All three are actively explained in the game.

Lotus is a Sentient named Natah and she tells us that she was captured by someone and brainwashed into thinking she was a caring mother for the Tenno, but she wasn't, she was a Mimic, a Spy for the Sentients. Everything she did for us was a result of her re-programming by someone [this was hinted all the way back during 2015 when a translated bit of text mentioned some sort of implementation of Margulis into something, now we know it seems to have been into Natah].

Literally ALL the Amalgamates, that HE made. This is also mentioned in game and it's explained through the secret scannable objects that he was tricked into signing a contract with the Sentients and threatened to fulfill it or be killed by the Ropalolyst. This is why he subtly helps us during the fight against it.

Literally no one knows and it's very hard to predict anything when DE seems to have a strange love at doing plot twists. M.Night would be proud of them.

[Skyz69]

Criticalfumble has a theory that explains I think most events!

What are others' thoughts on why Ballas waited so long before freeing Natah/Lotus/Margulis in the Apostasy Prologue? (Besides DE making it up as they go along)...