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Suggestion About The (In)Famous Stamina Issue


fmultimedia
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Hello guys.

 

So basically developers advocate that they want stamina to mean something. I agree. I don't think you should just be able to rush through whole infested scenarios without ever paying mind to the enemies around you. On the other hand, having to "turtle your way through" those "dead moments" of the game (dojo, no enemies labyrinths, etc.) is just really... annoying.

 

I don't know how many of you played Mass Effect 2, but I think the "stamina system" it had (or the closest thing) would fit very well with Warframe. In ME2, you had unlimited running potential when in "safe regions" (out of combat) and a very, very restricted stamina bar during fights. It worked well because you had to really know when to run - if you did it wrong, you'd run out of breath and be a sitting duck.

 

Of course, Warframe is all about mobility and ninjas, it's NOT Mass Effect - and neither should it be. But I think that would be a nice mechanism to try out: the current stamina bar for when you are going "undetected" and a more restricted one for when your in the heat of battle (either detected, or within a certain range of opponents or under fire). Visually, when you're in one of those straining situations, your stamina bar could go red/thick/flashing, indicating that all effort done then would somehow cost you more. I mean, the game already has a "stealth system" that deals with detection, it could be put to work for the stamina system.

 

That way, you'd be free(er) to rush through the "boring" parts of the map, but would still have to worry when it came to defence missions, survival missions or just generally trying to get past the mobs too strong for you. If you really wanted to be mobile (rather than tanky, mana-intense or dps-oriented), that would be a CHOICE, and you'd HAVE to invest on Stamina mods - all the while not making people who wanted non-mobile focused warframes have to invest on those mods just because they don't want to be annoyed all the time.

 

Obviously, considerations would have to be made about details such as: how does invisibility interact with this system? What about Corpus cameras? 

 

Please feel free to add suggestions and comments.

 

[TL;DR = when not in the heat of battle, the stamina system could be very generous, allowing ninjas to run a lot, while during fights it could be more restrictive; this would allow ppl who want to focus on mobility to be able to and kind of HAVE to through mods, while those who are more worried with resistance, dps or energy be able to skip that altogether and still not feel like the game came to a halt]

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I think you're approaching the issue slightly wrong. Stamina SHOULD mean something but that doesn't have to translate to it being something we have to compensate for or worry about. That's not re-doing a system, it's just nerfing it.

So rather than make it our Achilles heel, the stamina system should be fine as is, but with clear advantages to upgrading it. There has already been some progress in this direction with the advancement of blocking. Even though we can sprint and parcour as well as ever, we now have an ability that is inherently better for having more "oomph" in our stamina bar. 

Now, the blocking still leaves a lot to be desired because it takes up too many of our precious mod-slots to be truly effective but I think this is a much better general direction for stamina to move in.

 

TL;DR: Don't have disadvantages to NOT modding stamina. Have advantages TO modding stamina.

Edited by Santaphrax
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I think the basic question here is, whether it is bad to allow us sprinting all the time and if it's bad for the game, why is it bad for the game.

Also for F*** sake stop with that ninja bullS#&$...

 

I personally think it'd be VERY bad for the game. People rush through stages often enough as it is. Hell, most of the time, unless you're defending something, you just about completely skip enemies. I find really annoying that I invest a lot in my weapon and get to shoot it twice the whole mission, at the risk of being left out of extraction if I stay and fight one mook.

 

From what I've been reading (and yes, I'm a very new member of the community / game), many people agree with that idea. I see some others disagreeing, but it does seem to be less common.

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I personally think it'd be VERY bad for the game. People rush through stages often enough as it is. Hell, most of the time, unless you're defending something, you just about completely skip enemies. I find really annoying that I invest a lot in my weapon and get to shoot it twice the whole mission, at the risk of being left out of extraction if I stay and fight one mook.

 

From what I've been reading (and yes, I'm a very new member of the community / game), many people agree with that idea. I see some others disagreeing, but it does seem to be less common.

 

You think that nerfing stamina will solve this? So the rushers won't be able to run that fast, but that won't force them to stop and fight enemies if they can evade them.

You are saying that rushers make your game experience worse. Have you thought about the rushers that they can tell the same think about you?

I am no rusher, I am more of explorer, especially focused on errors and gaps in the maps, but there are times, when I rush and I love when I am running a boss for a 50th time, because those damned systems won't drop, and I have a "luck" for players who need to kill every single @(*()$ enemy and open every locker and destroy every container... and I have to wait for their slow assess to not lose my progress.

 

The fact is, rushing is currently in most cases the most time effective strategy and you know the deal, time is money and thus people rush.

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You think that nerfing stamina will solve this? So the rushers won't be able to run that fast, but that won't force them to stop and fight enemies if they can evade them.

You are saying that rushers make your game experience worse. Have you thought about the rushers that they can tell the same think about you?

I am no rusher, I am more of explorer, especially focused on errors and gaps in the maps, but there are times, when I rush and I love when I am running a boss for a 50th time, because those damned systems won't drop, and I have a "luck" for players who need to kill every single @(*()$ enemy and open every locker and destroy every container... and I have to wait for their slow assess to not lose my progress.

 

The fact is, rushing is currently in most cases the most time effective strategy and you know the deal, time is money and thus people rush.

 

No, I don't think that "nerfing" for its own sake is the solution.

 

I also think that if you do want to rush, that should be possible, only you'll have to work on that (mod-wise and skill-wise).

 

And yes, I'm sure slow people are just as annoying as rushers. I've been in the position of trying to farm, and having a group of slow players by my side. But I truly and honestly believe that rushing should be the exception in the game, and not the rule; if you need to rush (in order to farm, for example), find a proper squad or just go solo - why not?

 

The fact is, when I play a new warframe with new weapons (as I said, I'm still new at this), I absolutely need to solo if I want to enjoy my new experience. I can't even begin to say how that almost made me not want to play this game at all when I first began. Luckily, I had friends who started playing around the same time as me, so I still managed to do multiplayer.

 

"The fact is, rushing is currently in most cases the most time effective strategy and you know the deal, time is money and thus people rush."

 

Again, I think it's a matter of what should be the rule and what should be the exception (which can still be achieved through mods and skills, or the proper squad). Is this a farming game? May be it is, then I stand wrong. Or is it a game where you can/have to farm at some points to keep pushing forward or get what you want? I'm just stating my opinion, that's all.

 

FINALLY: I don't think that the system I suggested would necessarily hinder rushing as in making it really annoying. But yes, it would make you have to stop and fight a bit more. And would also make stamina be very important during the fights themselves - which, I think, would be the main point.

 

----

 

BTW zelgaris, now that I see your name, I think we played a game together today or yesterday =D We didn't seem to have issues with different playstyles then ;)

Edited by fmultimedia
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I think you're approaching the issue slightly wrong. Stamina SHOULD mean something but that doesn't have to translate to it being something we have to compensate for or worry about. That's not re-doing a system, it's just nerfing it.

So rather than make it our Achilles heel, the stamina system should be fine as is, but with clear advantages to upgrading it. There has already been some progress in this direction with the advancement of blocking. Even though we can sprint and parcour as well as ever, we now have an ability that is inherently better for having more "oomph" in our stamina bar. 

Now, the blocking still leaves a lot to be desired because it takes up too many of our precious mod-slots to be truly effective but I think this is a much better general direction for stamina to move in.

 

TL;DR: Don't have disadvantages to NOT modding stamina. Have advantages TO modding stamina.

 

Yes, that's also a very valid approach, I think. Hadn't thought of it like that, but it sounds very interesting. Although I still vehemently believe you should not be allow to just toggle the run mode and skip through the whole stage as a rule. 

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And yes, I'm sure slow people are just as annoying as rushers. I've been in the position of trying to farm, and having a group of slow players by my side. But I truly and honestly believe that rushing should be the exception in the game, and not the rule; if you need to rush (in order to farm, for example), find a proper squad or just go solo - why not?

 

FINALLY: I don't think that the system I suggested would necessarily hinder rushing as in making it really annoying. But yes, it would make you have to stop and fight a bit more. And would also make stamina be very important during the fights themselves - which, I think, would be the main point.

 

About "if you need to rush (in order to farm, for example), find a proper squad or just go solo - why not?" - You do understand that I can as well say "If you want to explore, find a proper squad or just go solo", right?

 

And nope, what you suggested won't make them stop and fight a bit more. It would make them stop and then rush slower until they are out of sight, while you are enjoying your fighting.

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About "if you need to rush (in order to farm, for example), find a proper squad or just go solo - why not?" - You do understand that I can as well say "If you want to explore, find a proper squad or just go solo", right?

 

And nope, what you suggested won't make them stop and fight a bit more. It would make them stop and then rush slower until they are out of sight, while you are enjoying your fighting.

 

I know you could say that, and that's my point: what's the rule when you join a game session? Rushers or explorers (of varying levels of exploring thoroughness)? As it is today, the first option seems to be the case. And I find it bad because it hardly matters what your loadout, warframe or build is then.

 

And yes, you might be right about your second point. You have more experience than I do.

Edited by fmultimedia
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I know you could say that, and that's my point: what's the rule when you join a game session? Rushers or explorers (of varying levels of exploring thoroughness)? As it is today, the first option seems to be the case. And I find it bad because it hardly matters what your loadout, warframe or build is then.

 

And yes, you might be right about your second point. You have more experience than I do.

 

That's not about experience in this game but in like all games, where the main content is grinding.

I think there may be a way to solve this from the gameplay standpoint (not sure it is), but right now and it will stay like this the best solution is to play with friends or alone.

 

One thing could really help this and that is better chat and proper "pre-mission" lobby, where you can chat with people and talk about the style you want to play or have some kind of check-boxes, with preferred play style.

But honestly, look at the chat, it's a @(*()$ hardly working basic mess, I don't think anything changes in this way till 2014 or 2015 :(

 

For a cooperative online game, there is almost no emphasis on the cooperation and interaction between players.

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That's not about experience in this game but in like all games, where the main content is grinding.

I think there may be a way to solve this from the gameplay standpoint (not sure it is), but right now and it will stay like this the best solution is to play with friends or alone.

 

One thing could really help this and that is better chat and proper "pre-mission" lobby, where you can chat with people and talk about the style you want to play or have some kind of check-boxes, with preferred play style.

But honestly, look at the chat, it's a @(*()$ hardly working basic mess, I don't think anything changes in this way till 2014 or 2015 :(

 

For a cooperative online game, there is almost no emphasis on the cooperation and interaction between players.

 

Now I couldn't agree more with ALL of the points you made. Especially check-boxes for some playstyles.

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