No more NW and No more Alerts

[MagPrime]

2 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Yes it did become a show rather quickly didn't it.  LOL

Oh no I just realized he's eating Tidepods!  I thought it was popcorn!

[Renegade343]

6 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

Oh no I just realized he's eating Tidepods!  I thought it was popcorn!

Same thing. Both let you enjoy things. One lets you enjoy movies, the other lets you enjoy freedom from life.

[(PSN)chubbslawson]

I used to do all the nitain alerts. I have everything made that takes them. I’m still sitting on over 300 of them. Tell me again what was the better way to get them 

[YUNoJump]

6 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Won't show me how many are unique, will it? Besides if it's that quick, how is it a problem for you to do?

Proportional sizes are okay with you, you say? Cool because it looks like I'm user 3,635,921 on the forums. I started a year and change ago. Hundreds of posts means that you're talking about maybe 0.0275% of the "registered losers" on the forums if they're all unique posters doesn't it? 

And yeah, I know that you already made up your mind about not accepting any opposing views. That's why subjective views are acceptable only in one direction, and some minorities can be counted as vast majorities, as far as your posts go. 

You're clearly not arguing in good faith dude, come on. An issue that only came into existence a few weeks ago can't have its post density compared to the entire history of the forums. So far you haven't made a single claim regarding post density that actually supports your side, you've just tried to shut down my claim. If my majority apparently doesn't exist, why does that make your side any more relevant? Subjective opinions only become more relevant through majority, so if you can't decide which of our sides has more people in agreement then you're just pushing for a stalemate and there's no reason for you to really bother arguing here. If you want to claim that there's no way either of our sides has a majority because of massive silent groups that apparently exist, and you want to claim that your subjective opinion can't be criticised, then there's no point in discussing this at all, because you've just removed every single factor that could possibly affect the argument.

6 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Ridiculous strawman, again. Nobody is saying that it should be periodically restricted. In fact the entire premise of the thread is a lie as we had an alert for 10 nitain less than a week ago. For many of us that's more than a week's worth under the old system.

And again, the current situation is a direct result of the public outcry over the things that some people didn't feel like doing in Nightwave, and the results of the same old tryhards trying to out-epeen one another about who had the most irrational fear of missing out, and who could burn themselves out the fastest. 

We've already discussed the Alert, 10 Nitain given in a 2 day period doesn't make up for the multiple weeks of zero Nitain that people have to deal with. Someone who missed those two days, maybe due to real life business, has gained nothing from that band-aid Alert. 2 days is an easy period of time to be unavailable for, and usually DE allocates much more time to events where they want lots of people to participate. 

So if you don't disagree that Nitain shouldn't be restricted, what are you even arguing for? If you don't want Nitain to be restricted, but you also don't care that it's currently missing, then you're not even choosing a side and actually adding an off-season Nitain source would make some people happier, but wouldn't go against your views. In fact, I agree that probably nobody actively wants Nitain to be restricted in the off-season, so in this case making a change would negatively affect nobody at all. So why not make the change?. It's clear that you just want to argue for the sake of it, as if people who have a problem should automatically be disagreed with just to uphold a status quo. The only argument might be that DE doesn't have the time, but as I discuss below, implementing a simple, satisfactory solution would be incredibly easy considering all the code already exists.

7 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

BS and you know it. There's a clear majority of Karen-types who are vocal. A glance at the forum profiles of some of the most vocal indicates that many of them probably have no issues whatsoever with a shortage of nitain as many probably built and researched much of what needs the extract long ago. So their complaints are not actually based on their own hardship but having decided that they should be affronted on behalf of others. 

As a newer player than you I'm actually relatively resource poor. During the last nightwave I flat out ran out of endo, statues, had less than 2 dozen of any type of mods that I could convert. I wonder when was the last time you were in a similar position?

Simple question: how much nitain do you have?

I currently have 64, thanks in part to nightwave and the GOTL alert. And I've got a solo clan. With the majority of the research costs completed and a lot of the frames and weapons built. You've got a few years head start on me so it'll be interesting to see how your numbers stack up. Given the intensity of your complaints here, I'm guessing you have less than 10 right now? 

Wow you're unironically using "Karen" as an insult in an argument. That's amazing, I never thought I'd see something like that in the wild.

Just because someone is arguing for something that doesn't personally affect them, doesn't mean their argument is invalid. That's like saying nobody in developed nations has any right to send aid to poor nations, or that straight people can't agree with LGBT rights. I personally don't need Nitain right now, but it's not hard for me to see that if I did need Nitain right now, I'd have a problem. In fact, considering you don't need any Nitain at the moment either, your position is just as supposedly invalid as mine. The people being affected by this issue are the people who haven't stockpiled Nitain in large amounts, which as multiple people in this thread have discussed, isn't always possible considering how many things you can buy in the Cred store.

Besides all that, there are also plenty of people complaining on the forums who DO need Nitain. 

7 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

They obviously did. That's why they were making active changes during the last season, and seem to have taken several points from the feedback thread and told us all what they're aiming for. But if they decided to put all their other projects on hold to work on nightwave, I guarantee that we'd have many of the exact same people complaining about the content drought, or how bad the new nightwave is because it feels like work (while also posting about how far ahead of the curve they are). 

The changes they are making are in regards to progressing through Nightwave itself, not buying Nitain. Nobody has a major issue with gaining Nitain while Nightwave is active, they have an issue in that Nightwave is currently missing until some point in the future and currently there isn't a good way to obtain Nitain during that time. The way to solve the Nitain problem is to have Nitain feasibly available during the off-season. Adding a feature that does that can be completely independent to Nightwave development, and wouldn't even be hard. A common idea is just for them to add Alerts back in, and considering they have all the code for that system and are still putting up Alerts like Gifts of the Lotus, it would be beyond easy to implement such a system while still working on Nightwave. DE is capable of doing more than one thing at a time. If Nightwave Season 2 was rushed out then people would be complaining about that, but they wouldn't be complaining about Nitain, because that aspect of the system is fine when Nightwave is running.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

5 hours ago, Teljaxx said:

The difference between Nitain and Credits is how many sources they each have. Credits are so easy to come by that its nearly impossible to find something to do that doesn't earn you at least a few in the process. But Nitain has exactly one reliable source, and that source has recently proven itself to not even be that reliable. Imagine if credits became this scarce for even a few days, let alone several weeks. Do you think that would be acceptable?

Gee I wonder if potentially needing billions compared to 200 might just have something to do with that? What do you think? 

5 hours ago, Teljaxx said:

But how did this gap happen in the first place? Unless DE comes out and tells us, we will probably never know for certain. But, this whole situation reeks of poor planning to me.

You really gonna sit there and pretend to have no clue? Were you around on the forums at all during nightwave? People were complaining about having to do anything at all. There were complaints about having to deploy a glyph. And asking us to "play with a friend or clanmate" produced levels of screeching so intense that millions of years from now civilizations around distant stars will probably say whatever their equivalent of "wtf" is. And don't even talk about having to change damage types to deal with an enemy that had a pretty high chance of showing up in high level missions. 

The naysayers said nay so often, that the forum became one enormous echo chamber. They didn't even realize that a lot of the time their complaints were self contradictory, "the wolf doesn't spawn enough for me to take a weapon to deal with him" was posted by the same people screaming "I'm fed up with the wolf spawning in and having to abort mission all the time". DE was accused of ignoring the feedback, despite making changes midseason, and decided to overhaul the challenges. They've posted about the changes that they're working on for everyone to see. But you're here saying "we don't know why they delayed it so long"? Come on, buddy, don't you think that would be an answer to the deep mysteries that you seem to think elude reasonable explanation? 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

5 minutes ago, YUNoJump said:

You're clearly not arguing in good faith dude, come on. An issue that only came into existence a few weeks ago can't have its post density compared to the entire history of the forums.

Really? But a 'potential' couple of hundred posters = the majority of players in the game? 

Oh I get it, it's only good faith if you do it. 

7 minutes ago, YUNoJump said:

So far you haven't made a single claim regarding post density that actually supports your side, you've just tried to shut down my claim. 

That's because I don't have to support the strawman that you claim I support. Now pay close attention:

8 minutes ago, YUNoJump said:

So if you don't disagree that Nitain shouldn't be restricted, what are you even arguing for?

Because the restriction is obviously the result of an unintended delay, caused by a change in plan, made to try and accommodate the whiners who complained vociferously for every minor reason that they could find, many of which were pretty unreasonable to begin with. 

The claim that we currently have no way of getting nitain is false, and the claim that there wasn't any alert for it recently was also false. The entire "omg the sky is falling, we don't know when Nightwave is going to start back, if ever, whatever will we dooooooooooooooooo" line that many people are going on about is irrational and ridiculous. 

14 minutes ago, YUNoJump said:

So why not make the change?

Because it's neither necessary, nor efficient. Demanding that they stop working on the improvements they already started on, to do what you a person with no idea of what's going on behind the curtain want, will waste everyone's time. That's a huge negative, and the only reason you can't see it is the hubris that is equally apparent in all of your other unfounded claims. 

Why should I voice my opposition to the lot of you demanding retrograde steps? Because I would really rather not sit quietly in the bus while you demand that the driver go over the cliff "because it'll be faster". After all you're claiming that the reason you have majority is that most people haven't spoken up to tell you that your idea sucks. 

 

22 minutes ago, YUNoJump said:

 I personally don't need Nitain right now, but it's not hard for me to see that if I did need Nitain right now, I'd have a problem.

What a shock. 

23 minutes ago, YUNoJump said:

Besides all that, there are also plenty of people complaining on the forums who DO need Nitain. 

How many people are we talking about here? 

[YUNoJump]

1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

-snip-

You know what, I can't be bothered arguing with you anymore. I could argue against your circular logic for days on end, but the enjoyment I got out of arguing with someone who is the logical equivalent of a brick wall has worn off. It's clear that your only goal here is to antagonise people who are advocating any sort of change at all. Looking through your post history, all I can see is snarky comments belittling people's intelligence and opinions, and far more often than not dismissing people's arguments entirely. It's also clear from comment chains that you have a reputation for this sort of behaviour. You consistently act as if there is no way anyone could play the game better than with your methods, which also coincidentally ignores the concept that most people don't want to micromanage their gameplay as much as you do in order to avoid admitting any fault. You also rapidly swap between claiming something is subjective and unable to be criticised, to stating that your points are objectively correct and people who disagree with them don't deserve to have their arguments considered, in order to avoid any sort of argument based on whether or not a person is having actual fun, the core goal of any videogame.

It's clear that in your eyes, if someone has a problem, it's because they're not you.

I'd like for you to ask yourself what you personally stand to gain from antagonising people like this. Your snarky, belittling comments that turn everything into a personal attack don't make anyone think you're smart, they make you look unlikeable and a bother to be around. Everyone I've ever seen attempting to debate you eventually gives up out of frustration, not because you disproved their points or changed their minds, but because you are so unable to consider anyone else's point of view that arguing with you loses any purpose. That doesn't make you a successful debater, that makes you the angry loner yelling at whoever happens to come near you.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

37 minutes ago, YUNoJump said:

You know what, I can't be bothered arguing with you anymore. I could argue against your circular logic for days on end, but the enjoyment I got out of arguing with someone who is the logical equivalent of a brick wall has worn off. It's clear that your only goal here is to antagonise people who are advocating any sort of change at all. Looking through your post history, all I can see is snarky comments belittling people's intelligence and opinions, and far more often than not dismissing people's arguments entirely. It's also clear from comment chains that you have a reputation for this sort of behaviour. You consistently act as if there is no way anyone could play the game better than with your methods, which also coincidentally ignores the concept that most people don't want to micromanage their gameplay as much as you do in order to avoid admitting any fault. You also rapidly swap between claiming something is subjective and unable to be criticised, to stating that your points are objectively correct and people who disagree with them don't deserve to have their arguments considered, in order to avoid any sort of argument based on whether or not a person is having actual fun, the core goal of any videogame.

It's clear that in your eyes, if someone has a problem, it's because they're not you.

I'd like for you to ask yourself what you personally stand to gain from antagonising people like this. Your snarky, belittling comments that turn everything into a personal attack don't make anyone think you're smart, they make you look unlikeable and a bother to be around. Everyone I've ever seen attempting to debate you eventually gives up out of frustration, not because you disproved their points or changed their minds, but because you are so unable to consider anyone else's point of view that arguing with you loses any purpose. That doesn't make you a successful debater, that makes you the angry loner yelling at whoever happens to come near you.

Beautiful ad hominem. Doesn't actually address any of the points in the previous posts though. 

You chose to be offended on behalf of other people and based the majority of your arguments based on fallacies, despite being a living example of people who don't actually have a problem. 

 

[KhaosReign420]

what about orokin catalysts and reactors? seems liek there is a LOT less chance to get ahold of these as well... im coming back from a year or so off, and i was still newb status when i left but ill be out of nitian extract soon and only have 1 reactor and 1 catalyst left... this is the most recent and up to date post i found on the lack of alerts... figured you guys will know whats up. im not saying there is no way to get these btw... im asking what ARE the ways to acquire these goods at this point.... i seem to have returned in between NW seasons as well... cheers and thanks for your replies.

[YUNoJump]

49 minutes ago, KhaosReign420 said:

what about orokin catalysts and reactors? seems liek there is a LOT less chance to get ahold of these as well... im coming back from a year or so off, and i was still newb status when i left but ill be out of nitian extract soon and only have 1 reactor and 1 catalyst left... this is the most recent and up to date post i found on the lack of alerts... figured you guys will know whats up. im not saying there is no way to get these btw... im asking what ARE the ways to acquire these goods at this point.... i seem to have returned in between NW seasons as well... cheers and thanks for your replies.

Yeah that's a good point too, kinda sucks that they're restricted as well. Currently I'd imagine the best way to get them would be to keep an eye on Invasions, they can very occasionally give potato blueprints as rewards. Other than that you could wait until the next Devstream where there'll be a guaranteed potato Alert the next day. Not as bad as Nitain, but still pretty bad.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

11 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Really? But a 'potential' couple of hundred posters = the majority of players in the game? 

Oh I get it, it's only good faith if you do it. 

That's because I don't have to support the strawman that you claim I support. Now pay close attention:

Because the restriction is obviously the result of an unintended delay, caused by a change in plan, made to try and accommodate the whiners who complained vociferously for every minor reason that they could find, many of which were pretty unreasonable to begin with. 

The claim that we currently have no way of getting nitain is false, and the claim that there wasn't any alert for it recently was also false. The entire "omg the sky is falling, we don't know when Nightwave is going to start back, if ever, whatever will we dooooooooooooooooo" line that many people are going on about is irrational and ridiculous. 

Because it's neither necessary, nor efficient. Demanding that they stop working on the improvements they already started on, to do what you a person with no idea of what's going on behind the curtain want, will waste everyone's time. That's a huge negative, and the only reason you can't see it is the hubris that is equally apparent in all of your other unfounded claims. 

Why should I voice my opposition to the lot of you demanding retrograde steps? Because I would really rather not sit quietly in the bus while you demand that the driver go over the cliff "because it'll be faster". After all you're claiming that the reason you have majority is that most people haven't spoken up to tell you that your idea sucks. 

 

What a shock. 

How many people are we talking about here? 

@YUNoJump Your idea sucks 😛
 
@(PS4)guzmantt1977 I indeed agree that people make far too many assumptions about what is "easy to fix" with little to know knowledge of how the game or business side of things ACTUALLY works.  

TBH, the increase in scarcity with certain resources COULD be something DE is working on to try and incentivise plat purchases between seasons.  Quite honestly, everything might be TOO easy to get for completely free, and with possible (albeit, unlikely) laws changing that might affect the current revenue streams Warframe DOES have, this could be a trial run of those types of ideas "just in case".

Completely throwing guesses out there, though, based on dev experience and so on.  No reason otherwise really believe that's the case.  Odds are it's just as you said, they're trying to adjust to player demands, at the same time as they've JUST LAUNCHED The Jovian bit on PC, so there's THAT to  deal with, etc etc.

Honestly?  People just want things now. They SAY they don't, but they'll complain about drop rates until they're practically GIVEN away, and then they'll complain they're not given enough!

You only NEED 200something Nitain currently to build EVERYTHING, pretty sure . Something around that number.  ......So what's the rush to get there?  People act like they've gotta "beat the game" or something, and do it like ...yesterday.  

Where's the fire?  Get to it when you do...   It's Warframe, it's a living game, it's entire business RELIES on people playing it in an ONGOING fashion, not racing to the finish line and dropping it for months/years.   So, it makes perfect sense as to why they've forced a pacing with things like Nightwave.  Otherwise, people just grind for (way too many) hours at a time, stockpile everything, rush through weapons and frames without EVER really "mastering" them, and then sit there like "Okay, I'm bored now". 

They're all in a rush to wait, and that's one of the biggest issues the Warframe community has right now. 

And to answer an earlier  question from another poster, the REASON many of us who support ideas similar to @(PS4)guzmantt1977 don't just bombard the forums is because when we DO we get called "white knights" and other derogatory terms, and our opinions get dismissed as "just mindless idiots who think DE does no wrong".  Tell me, why should we bother saying anything if you just wanna hear yourselves talk? 

[MagPrime]

Oh good, this is back on. 

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

Just now, MagPrime said:

Oh good, this is back on. 

I honestly tried to sit this one out, but lack of sleep + I hate seeing angsty demands go unopposed, lest someone actually think the  ideas themselves are found agreeable by the majority.

After all, if we DON'T speak up, it's no better than tossing our say aside, and giving up our right to vote on an issue.

.....Also, wouldn't want to let all that popcorn  go to waste 😛 Got caramel?

[MagPrime]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

I honestly tried to sit this one out, but lack of sleep + I hate seeing angsty demands go unopposed, lest someone actually think the  ideas themselves are found agreeable by the majority.

After all, if we DON'T speak up, it's no better than tossing our say aside, and giving up our right to vote on an issue.

.....Also, wouldn't want to let all that popcorn  go to waste 😛 Got caramel?

Dam Skippy I got caramel.  What kind of savage do you take me for?

I have culture, thank you very much. 

[Loswaith]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

Where's the fire?  Get to it when you do...   It's Warframe, it's a living game, it's entire business RELIES on people playing it in an ONGOING fashion, not racing to the finish line and dropping it for months/years.   So, it makes perfect sense as to why they've forced a pacing with things like Nightwave.  Otherwise, people just grind for (way too many) hours at a time, stockpile everything, rush through weapons and frames without EVER really "mastering" them, and then sit there like "Okay, I'm bored now". 

You do realise the behavior you are criticising here is exactly the behavior that Nightwave teaches.  Nightwave explicitly doesn't let players take their time to do stuff, unlike the alerts, simply because if you don't spend chunks of time doing it and get all you can from Nightwave it goes away.  Maybe that chapter will return a year later (presuming we get even 4-5 chapters), maybe it wont ever return (we are still waiting on many events to return, that the core aspects are currently in game, with just the story mising).  DE's track record on doing recurring story/lore based stuff is that it goes for a bit then gets (or seems to be) abandoned (Simaris scanning, Prime Trailers, Kuria, and so forth).

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

44 minutes ago, Loswaith said:

You do realise the behavior you are criticising here is exactly the behavior that Nightwave teaches.  Nightwave explicitly doesn't let players take their time to do stuff, unlike the alerts, simply because if you don't spend chunks of time doing it and get all you can from Nightwave it goes away.  Maybe that chapter will return a year later (presuming we get even 4-5 chapters), maybe it wont ever return (we are still waiting on many events to return, that the core aspects are currently in game, with just the story mising).  DE's track record on doing recurring story/lore based stuff is that it goes for a bit then gets (or seems to be) abandoned (Simaris scanning, Prime Trailers, Kuria, and so forth).

What are you talking about? Alerts required us to be able to log in to the game at a moments notice, or for extended periods of time, or miss out. 

With nightwave, logging in on 2 days a week for a couple of hours, was enough to do all but one of challenges. If you logged in every day you could have spread the challenges out and gotten a couple done on any given day, just taking your sweet time about it. 

We needed to do so little that you could easily have completed it doing absolutely no elite challenges at all, or if you could do some of them, then you shaved the number of weeks down to maybe 6 or 7 leaving you with a month or more of "yeah I don't feel like doing any challenges this week". And even then you're probably going to gain some of them passively. 

Your argument against it is literally stuff that was made up, and pushed extensively by irrational people who insisted on trying to grind all of the challenges ASAP to get to max tier because of their irrational FOMO. And that's after we were explicitly told that we would only need to do around 60-65% of the standing in any given week. 

Among the highly vocal critics there were people claiming that the challenges were all unbearably onerous chores, despite the challenges representing a large swath of the game. When asked what in-game activities aren't a chore in their eyes, at least one was unable to name even a single thing.

When players seem to actively hate the vast majority of the game, and you even get complaints about "use an emote and we'll give you free stuff", it's probably a good idea to start making a list of names of people who don't seem to be actually playing the game, and who're only interested in screaming about how terrible everything is, how disrespected they feel, and turning the forums into their own personal echo chamber, all while demanding ever more free stuff. 

[YUNoJump]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Taishin_Ishu said:

And to answer an earlier  question from another poster, the REASON many of us who support ideas similar to @(PS4)guzmantt1977 don't just bombard the forums is because when we DO we get called "white knights" and other derogatory terms, and our opinions get dismissed as "just mindless idiots who think DE does no wrong".  Tell me, why should we bother saying anything if you just wanna hear yourselves talk? 

So your group of people doesn't engage frequently and avoids making debate, if you aren't willing to engage your opponents why the heck should anyone believe you're a large group? You don't get to engage in decision-making if you don't show up. You literally have zero proof other than your word that there is a large group of you, especially one that's comparative in size to the number of people on the opposite side that have made their opinions known.

[Teljaxx]

13 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Gee I wonder if potentially needing billions compared to 200 might just have something to do with that? What do you think?

You clearly missed my point about how it doesn't matter how many of anything you need if you can't get any at all. 10 may as well be 1,000 if you can barely even get a single one. Also, normally, the total required amount of both of these resources is fairly well matched to the rate at which you can get them. The problem comes when these two amounts no longer match. Especially when the acquisition rate drops far below where it should be, as it currently has with Nitain.

13 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

You really gonna sit there and pretend to have no clue? Were you around on the forums at all during nightwave? People were complaining about having to do anything at all. There were complaints about having to deploy a glyph. And asking us to "play with a friend or clanmate" produced levels of screeching so intense that millions of years from now civilizations around distant stars will probably say whatever their equivalent of "wtf" is. And don't even talk about having to change damage types to deal with an enemy that had a pretty high chance of showing up in high level missions. 

The naysayers said nay so often, that the forum became one enormous echo chamber. They didn't even realize that a lot of the time their complaints were self contradictory, "the wolf doesn't spawn enough for me to take a weapon to deal with him" was posted by the same people screaming "I'm fed up with the wolf spawning in and having to abort mission all the time". DE was accused of ignoring the feedback, despite making changes midseason, and decided to overhaul the challenges. They've posted about the changes that they're working on for everyone to see. But you're here saying "we don't know why they delayed it so long"? Come on, buddy, don't you think that would be an answer to the deep mysteries that you seem to think elude reasonable explanation? 

Nice use of hyperbole to absolutely obliterate a point I wasn't even trying to argue in the first place. Obviously, the reason season 2 was not ready right at the end of season 1 is because of how much work there is to be done. Changes based on feedback, plus they have already shown that they want to make season 2 bigger and fancier than the first. DE has been having more and more trouble with feature creep lately. Every new update has been taking longer and longer to come out because of just how much new stuff they always want to jam into it. So its not just the feedback related changes, its the new stuff too. But that is not the point.

The question I was asking is this: Because of all this, if they so clearly knew there was going to be a gap between seasons, how did they not think to fill it with anything? What made them think it was okay for things like potatoes, aura mods, and the almighty Nitain Extract to be unavailable during this time? There are several easy ways that they could have implemented to keep players supplied, but instead, they did nothing.

The optimist in me really wants to believe that DE has some reason for doing so. Maybe these things were easier to get than DE planned for, and this is to slow things down a bit. But the pessimist in me can't help but see this as a gross miscalculation that they have only barely attempted to fix with a single alert. Whatever their intent may be, their execution has pissed off the community, and I seriously doubt that was what they wanted.

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

25 minutes ago, YUNoJump said:

So your group of people doesn't engage frequently and avoids making debate, if you aren't willing to engage your opponents why the heck should anyone believe you're a large group? You don't get to engage in decision-making if you don't show up. You literally have zero proof other than your word that there is a large group of you, especially one that's comparative in size to the number of people on the opposite side that have made their opinions known.

Okay, so...

1. Noone said we don't make debates. I "show up" all the time. People still only hear what they wanna hear.  Luckily, the only people that need convincing are DE, not you.

2. I don't care if you "believe" people with opinions that differ from your own exist. I don't care at all. I DO care when you try to state your opinions as fact, and you try to push this idea that just because complainers complain more often than those enjoying the game do, that the former is the "majority" of voices that matter.   If that be the case,  according to the vast majority of complaints, all groceries at Walmart should be free, clothes too small for us should fit better, and kids should all be able to leave school and eat pizza for breakfast, all according to popular opinion. 

Being the loudest doesn't make you right.

3. As @(PS4)guzmantt1977 pointed out, even considering ALL of the posters who made Nightwave complaint threads, in TOTAL, that's STILL not even a drop in the pond that is the Warframe playerbase.  Even 10,000 players complaining wouldn't even represent 1% of the playerbase. That's fact. That's basic math.  So, unless you can show me 10 MILLION complaint threads, all by different people, I cannot and will not believe that "your  group" is the "majority", either.

Just because you don't believe people have different opinions from your own doesn't make it true.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

53 minutes ago, YUNoJump said:

So your group of people doesn't engage frequently and avoids making debate, if you aren't willing to engage your opponents why the heck should anyone believe you're a large group? You don't get to engage in decision-making if you don't show up. You literally have zero proof other than your word that there is a large group of you, especially one that's comparative in size to the number of people on the opposite side that have made their opinions known.

Would work better if you were able to show that you actually belong to a large group, as opposed to a highly vocal minority. 

I asked you to do that but..... 

And here's the thing, there are tens of thousands of us showing up in the game at any given moment. There seem to be thousands of people who use the forums. The majority is apparently silent. 

Of the vocal minority, many even seem to be likely people who are unlikely to be facing undue hardship at this time. A quick glance at the title and posts in this thread shows that many taking issue, are intellectually dishonest enough to act as though we didn't recently have an alert giving away 10 nitain. Many also falsely claim that its impossible to get nitain outside of the alerts..... Which brings us to:

 

48 minutes ago, Teljaxx said:

You clearly missed my point about how it doesn't matter how many of anything you need if you can't get any at all. 10 may as well be 1,000 if you can barely even get a single one. Also, normally, the total required amount of both of these resources is fairly well matched to the rate at which you can get them. The problem comes when these two amounts no longer match. Especially when the acquisition rate drops far below where it should be, as it currently has with Nitain

Nope. I saw your point but believe it to be spurious. We're facing what has every appearance of being a temporary scarcity, after a period that shared it out in abundance, and before what we can expect to be another bounty. And to ease the burden for those of us who actually need it, they gave us a very healthy amount to help tide us over. 

 

48 minutes ago, Teljaxx said:

The question I was asking is this: Because of all this, if they so clearly knew there was going to be a gap between seasons, how did they not think to fill it with anything? 

Nice use of hyperbole to pretend that they didn't give us 10 nitain just a week ago. 

 

48 minutes ago, Teljaxx said:

There are several easy ways that they could have implemented to keep players supplied, but instead, they did nothing.

You mean, exactly like they did? 

As for not getting even more free potatoes, do you want to let us know how many you got during nightwave? Just the ones from the cred store. We can pretend that the ones from the gift of the Lotus and the tiers didn't happen. 

Asking because you brought it up. 

[Teljaxx]

1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Nope. I saw your point but believe it to be spurious. We're facing what has every appearance of being a temporary scarcity, after a period that shared it out in abundance, and before what we can expect to be another bounty. And to ease the burden for those of us who actually need it, they gave us a very healthy amount to help tide us over.

A.K.A. You had no good argument against it, so you instead chose to "defeat" a much easier argument. Either way, a temporary shortage is still a shortage. And, temporary or not, this gap between seasons has been extremely poorly handled by DE. And if it is going to be a consistent thing between every season, hopefully they will handle it better next time. I am not looking forward to the forum rage after every single season if they don't

1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Nice use of hyperbole to pretend that they didn't give us 10 nitain just a week ago.

You clearly don't know what hyperbole is. Besides, this isn't just about Nitain. There are no challenges or alerts, either. None of the extra randomized content that was supposed to help keep people engaged between big updates. When you have to wait for the thing that is supposed to tide you over while waiting, that isn't good.

1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

You mean, exactly like they did? 

As for not getting even more free potatoes, do you want to let us know how many you got during nightwave? Just the ones from the cred store. We can pretend that the ones from the gift of the Lotus and the tiers didn't happen. 

Asking because you brought it up. 

A single 48 hour window to get 10 Nitain and one specific aura mod is nowhere near the same as what was available during the Nightwave season. Its simply a quick attempt by DE to cover their butts after they realized that they just released a new frame that needs a resource that just had its only reliable source removed. And what about the other Cred shop only stuff, like alt helmets? What are you supposed to do if you want any of those right now? Spend platinum? At least they have that option, unlike Nitain.

The potatoes in the Cred shop aren't free, either. Nothing in the Cred shop is. You could only get around 500 Creds maximum in season 1, assuming you completed every single challenge and got all the prestige ranks possible. Yet it would have taken over 3,000 Creds to get everything in the shop during the season. So, since it is impossible to get everything, every item you buy comes at the cost of not getting something else. So even though they may not cost real money through platinum, they are not completely free as you say. And potatoes especially come at the cost of getting quite a bit fewer things overall.

And, even though it is ultimately unimportant: I got one of each potato "for free" from the Cred shop during season one. Since that was almost half of the overall Creds I got, I missed out on several other things I wanted because of them. A pretty heft cost if you ask me.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

26 minutes ago, Teljaxx said:

A.K.A. You had no good argument against it, so you instead chose to "defeat" a much easier argument. Either way, a temporary shortage is still a shortage. And, temporary or not, this gap between seasons has been extremely poorly handled by DE. And if it is going to be a consistent thing between every season, hopefully they will handle it better next time. I am not looking forward to the forum rage after every single season if they don't

No, it's aka, "wtf are you on about? The sky isn't falling, you were standing under an oak tree and an acorn hit you on the head. Stop trying to make it out to be the end of the world." I don't have to try to disprove suggestion that "billions" and "around 200" are equivalent, nor that "10 might as well be 1000". 

And just because the gap hasn't been handled the way you want, doesn't mean that they've left us out to rot. They used the current alert system to supply a very generous amount of nitain in the meantime while working on getting NW 2 up and running. 

If you aren't looking forward to the forum rage in the future, then why are you actively making demonstrably false, inflammatory statements to try and promote such behaviour? 

37 minutes ago, Teljaxx said:

You clearly don't know what hyperbole is. Besides, this isn't just about Nitain. There are no challenges or alerts, either. None of the extra randomized content that was supposed to help keep people engaged between big updates. When you have to wait for the thing that is supposed to tide you over while waiting, that isn't good

I clearly do, I can probably even pronounce it correctly. And you just got a major update, and the associated content is still being farmed. Also we always had to wait for nitain. We still have quite a bit of "extra randomised content" as you'd know if you had been the sort of person who does those, so that's not so much hyperbole as flat out dishonesty. And last but not least, let me ask you what percentage of the alerts you figure you would do on a regular basis. I'm going to go ahead and guess single digits until you get back to me with your guestimate. 

48 minutes ago, Teljaxx said:

A single 48 hour window to get 10 Nitain and one specific aura mod is nowhere near the same as what was available during the Nightwave season. Its simply a quick attempt by DE to cover their butts after they realized that they just released a new frame that needs a resource that just had its only reliable source removed.

Well seeing as how the claim has been repeatedly made that there were no alerts at all, and no way to earn nitain, admitting that was untrue is a huge step in the right direction, Tenno. Soon you might even be able to admit that alt helmets aren't really a pivotal piece of equipment for progression in the game, and that if they're also not available, you can scratch off quite a bit of the "nitain needed to craft items list" until Nightwave2 gets off the ground. 

54 minutes ago, Teljaxx said:

The potatoes in the Cred shop aren't free, either. Nothing in the Cred shop is. You could only get around 500 Creds maximum in season 1, assuming you completed every single challenge and got all the prestige ranks possible. Yet it would have taken over 3,000 Creds to get everything in the shop during the season. So, since it is impossible to get everything, every item you buy comes at the cost of not getting something else. So even though they may not cost real money through platinum, they are not completely free as you say. And potatoes especially come at the cost of getting quite a bit fewer things overall.

Weird. There's at least one dude who made it to tier 60. I was at prestige 10 because I just didn't bother with most of the challenges for the last month or so because I had other stuff on my plate. Really should have been quite a bit higher than that if I'd stuck with it. 

I am glad that you admit that you didn't pay plat for the ones that you got. Because most folks would probably agree that "opportunity cost" isn't something that you actually pay and really doesn't count towards "not free". 

1 hour ago, Teljaxx said:

And, even though it is ultimately unimportant: I got one of each potato "for free" from the Cred shop during season one. Since that was almost half of the overall Creds I got, I missed out on several other things I wanted because of them. A pretty heft cost if you ask me.

Was it nitain? Please tell me it was nitain that you spent it on. I mean sure some folks did buy up extra aura mods to share out to the newbs, I know did, but made sure that I found room for potatoes and a hefty chunk of nitain. 

One way or the other, what that tells me is that you seldom did alerts leading up to nightwave1. 

[Maria_Steele]

This has been a juicy read.

[MagPrime]

28 minutes ago, TheChattyRevolver said:

This has been a juicy read.

Right? 

[M3tallius]

On 2019-05-29 at 11:53 PM, Zeclem said:

forum knights never cease to amaze me. 

to all the knights of de, can you please tell me what harm would be done to your ancestors(since you defend this blatant mismanagement that a lot of people arent happy with as if it was your family honor) if de actually did activate the alerts between seasons? why is it such a huge deal for you people? quite a lot of people expected the season 2 to be quite quick since de kept saying "soon" instead of giving a date and people did not think it would be a long time before the season 2, therefore did not see a need to stock up on nitain. 

not being able to gain such a critical resource over a time thats measured in weeks is just not good at all. this is not a discussion, at all. its a fact. if de actually told people how long it's gonna last so they could prepare, then sure i'd understand why you are knighting the S#&$ out of de. but thats not the case. if de did said that it can take weeks, please do show me and i'll take back and apologize for everything i have said. 

Because people with jobs could never keep up. It is a system that gave an advantage to the chronically unemployed or the people that could play from work.

I don't understand how YOU fail to... uh... understand.

Alerts = unfair advantage

Nightwave = annoying grind

Seriously, I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but I don't think it can be explained in any other manner.

Alerts. Gave. An. Advantage. To. A. Certain. Type. Of. Player.

If you fail to see that, then you ARE that certain type of player.

Edited May 31, 2019 by M3tallius