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[25.x.x] Particle System settings Low & Medium rendering identically

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Posted (edited)

---

## EDIT 24.07.2019 ##

After weeks of observation on that issue, I came to the conclusion that it's not GPU particle related, but directly a basic Particle System issue. I'm pretty sure the "Low" setting renders identically to the "Medium" setting since 25.0.0. I first noticed on my Imperator Vandal a strange shiny glow while shooting on the 25.0.0 but I thought it was just something I never noticed before on this weapon as I never really played it, and also the Fulmin had the same type of muzzle-flash glow so I thought all of that was GPU particle driven. But just now I realized that my operator Lega Prism was now rendering the same glowing muzzle-flash on top of what it used to render in "Low" setting. Overall this can explain all the performance cost increase since 25.0.0 while using full low setting and dx10.

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Hey there,

I've noticed few days ago that my Catchmoon had some very strange particles floating arround the muzzle flash, but I've already seen those type of particles while channelling and those are very similar to the GPU particles that appears when you turn the GPU particles setting to low or higher, and they appear on my Catchmoon and channeling when the setting is on Disabled.

I've seen it also on the Cyanex and I've made the comparison between with the setting on Disabled and on Low.

GPU Particles Disabled:

pO4jVCv.jpg

 

GPU Particles Low:

MYM6lG9.jpg

Note: with the GPU Particles Low the screen shot have multiple shots fired that increased the amount of particles arround the muzzle but it's the same density per shot as with the setting on Disabled, the projectiles trails have particles that are not present under Disabled setting.

 

As you can see on the screenshots, the particles from the muzzleflash and the one on the trails are abit different, the trails one are more shiny but I'm pretty sure the one on the muzzleflash are also GPU particles. I'll update the list of the known situation where I see this occuring.

 

Update Info:

  • 25.0.5: Thread starting.
  • 25.0.6: Issue still present.
  • 25.0.7: Issue still present.
  • 25.0.8: Issue still present.
  • 25.1.0: Issue still present.
  • 25.1.1: Issue still present.
  • 25.1.2: Issue still present.
  • 25.1.3: Issue still present.
  • 25.2.0: Issue still present.
  • 25.4.0: Issue still present, edit of the informations.
Edited by Etzu
Issue specification update

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Posted (edited)

Suspicious cases occuring under GPU Particles Disables:

Primaries:

  • Battacor alt fire trail
  • Exergis cristal muzzle breaking (can be something different)
  • Glaxion Vandal beam (probably also occuring on regular version but I don't have it to test)
  • Ignis Wraith beam (probably also occuring on regular version but I don't have it to test)
  • Zenith alt fire trail and "sonar" effect

Secondaries:

  • Atomos muzzleflash
  • Catchmoon muzzleflash
  • Cyanex muzzleflash
  • Embolist beam
  • Gaze muzzleflash & beam
  • Kunai trail (can be something different)
  • Ocucor muzzleflash & beam
  • Plinx muzzleflash & beam
  • Pox trail (similar to kunai, can be something different)
  • Rattlegut muzzleflash & beam
  • Sancti Castanas mine (probably also occuring on the regular version but I don't have it to test)
  • Spria Prime trail (similar to kunai and pox, can be soemthing different, probably also occuring on the regular version but I don't have it to test)
  • Tombfinger muzzleflash
  • Twin Kohmak muzzleflash (probably also occuring on the single Kohmak version but I don't have it to test)

Melees:

  • Channeling hand trail origin point (only while channeling)
  • Dakra Prime handle electric vfx (channeling emitter spot, all the time)
  • Destraza Prime handle electric vfx (channeling emitter spot, all the time)
  • Dex Dakra right handle electric vfx (channeling emitter spot, all the time)
  • Dual Kama Prime handles electric vfx (channeling emitter spots, all the time)
  • Fang Prime handles electric vfx (channeling emitter spots, all the time)
  • Galatine Prime handle electric vfx (channeling emitter spot, all the time)
  • Glaive Prime "handle" electric vfx (channeling emitter spot, all the time)
  • Jat Kittag engine sparkles vfx (can be something different)
  • Jat Kusar blade embers vfx (heat elemental vfx, turns off with weapon elemental vfx setting)
  • Kogake Prime hands and feet electric vfx (channeling emitter spots, all the time)
  • Kreska blade embers vfx (heat elemental vfx, turns off with weapon elemental vfx setting)
  • Kronen Prime handles electric vfx (channeling emitter spots, all the time)
  • Machete Wraith handle electric vfx (channeling emitter spot, all the time)
  • Nami Skila Prime left handle electric vfx (channeling emitter spot, all the time)
  • Prisma Dual Cleavers handles electric vfx (channeling emitter spots, all the time)
  • Rakta Dark Dagger handle electric vfx (channeling emitter spot, all the time)
  • Sancti Magistar "handle" electric vfx (channeling emitter spot, all the time)
  • Sarpa muzzleflash (can be something different)
  • Scindo Prime "handle" electric vfx (channeling emitter spot, all the time)
  • Silva & Aegis Prime shield electric vfx (channeling emitter spot, all the time)
  • Telos Boltace handles electric vfx (channeling emitter spots, all the time)
  • Twin Baslok sparkles vfx (can be something different)
  • Vaykor Sydon "handle" electric vfx (channeling emitter spot, all the time)
  • Venka Prime handles electric vfx (channeling emitter spots, all the time)

Robotics:

  • Cryotra beam
  • Vulklok projectile trail

Archguns:

  • Fluctus Atmospheric trail (can be something different and it's since Fortuna part 2)

Vehicles:

  • Unequiping Archwing (can be something different)
  • Mounting & Dismounting K-Drive (can be something different)
  • K-drive motion effect (can be something different)

Operator:

  • No Amp beam hit location.
  • Mot Amp beam hit location.
  • Focus 5th beam. (second dream variant) 

Amp Prisms:

  • Cantic Prism muzzleflash & beam & hit location. (can be something different)
  • Rahn Prism muzzleflash.

Amp Scaffolds:

  • Dissic Scaffold projectile explosion location & sub-projectile explosion location. (can be something different)
  • Exard Scaffold projectile explosion location. (can be something different)
  • Klebrik Scaffold muzzleflash.
  • Pencha Scaffold muzzleflash.
  • Propa Scaffold projectile explosion location. (can be something different)

Environments:

  • Particles inside the Orbiter (can be something different)
  • Corpus outpost tileset snow particle on transition between inside building and outside (can be something different)
  • Infested tilesets particle clouds (can be something different)
  • Void tileset ambient particles similar to Orbiter.
  • Entire Cetus and Plains of Eidolon during Plague Star event, ambient particles. (can be something different)

Status Effects:

  • Blast Status effect debuff (can be something different)
  • Electric Status effect debuff (can be something different)
  • Viral Status effect debuff (can be something different)
  • Blast Damage weapon elemental vfx (produce embers, not visible if the weapon elemental fx option is disabled)
  • Heat Damage weapon elemental vfx (produce embers, not visible if the weapon elemental fx option is disabled)

Miscs:

  • Energy orb pickup (can be something different)
  • Health orb pickup (can be something different)
  • Spark Hit impact type (vfx, not status), emitter at impact location (can be something different) (from my memory, the small sparkling dots were not there before 25.x, only the spark "lines" were there)
  • Death effect from one status type, more details soon. (can be something different)
  • Arcane Ultimatum proc, emitter arround owner. (can be something different)

Emblems:

  • Ki'Teer Sekhara (can be something different)

Warframes:

  • Atlas 1st ability, on impact with target, emitter on target chest.
  • Atlas 2nd ability, on recast, emitter on user hands.
  • Atlas 3rd ability, on cast, emitter on user hands.
  • Atlas 4th ability, on recast, emitter on summon chest after explosion.
  • Chroma Prime 1st ability, muzzleflash & beam.
  • Chroma Prime 2nd ability, buff duration, emitter on user chest.
  • Chroma Prime 3rd ability, buff duration, emitter on user chest.
  • Chroma Prime 4th ability, on effigy attacks, muzzleflash & beam / chest emitters.
  • Ember Prime emitter on the chest not ability related.
  • Excalibur Umbra 3rd ability, on cast, aoe emitter. (can be something different)
  • Harrow 3rd ability, on recast, emitter on icon disappearing. (can be something different)
  • Harrow 4th ability, invulnerability buff part, emitter on user chest. (and probably also on buffed allies)
  • Hydroid Prime 3rd ability, on cast and on recast, emitter on user chest. (can be something different)
  • Inaros 4th ability, swarm trails. (can be something different)
  • Ivara 3rd ability, on pickpock loot, emitter on target chest.
  • Limbo Prime emitter arround user inside the rift after rift walk. (dodge) Applying to any situation inside the rift.
  • Loki Prime 1st ability, on cast, emitter on decoy chest. (can be something different)
  • Loki Prime 3rd ability, on teleport, emitter on user chest. (can be something different)
  • Mesa & Mesa Prime 3rd ability, on cast, emitter on user chest. (can be something different)
  • Mirage Prime 1st ability, on cast, emitter on clone chests and maybe on user chest. (can be something different)
  • Mirage Prime 3rd ability, on trapped drops explosion, emitter on explosion location. (can be something different)
  • Nekros Prime 2nd ability, on cast, emitter arround the user. (can be something different)
  • Nekros Prime 4th ability, on cast, emitter arround the user. (can be something different)
  • Nova Prime 3rd ability, on portal teleport, emitter at teleport location. (can be something different)
  • Oberon Prime 1st ability, on projectile impact, emitter on target chest. (can be something different)
  • Oberon Prime 4th ability, on cast, emitter at tagets locations.
  • Ocatavia 2nd ability, on Resonator spawn, emitter at resonator spawn location.
  • Octavia 4th ability, on Amp spawn, emitter at amp spawn location.
  • Rhino Prime 2nd ability, on cast, emitter arround the user. (can be something different)
  • Rhino Prime 4th ability, on cast, emitter arround the user. (can be something different)
  • Saryn Prime 2nd ability, molt duration, emitter on molt chest. (can be something different)
  • Saryn Prime 4th ability, miasma duration, emitter on affected target chest. (can be something different)
  • Titania 1st ability, spellbindind duration, emitter on affected enemy chest. (can be something different)
  • Titania 2nd ability, buff duration, emitter arround affected ennemy. (can be something different)
  • Titania 3rd ability, lantern duration, emitter arround affected ennemy and on target chest. (can be something different)
  • Trinity Prime 2nd ability, on energy pulse, emitter arround affected target and on target chest. (can be something different)
  • Trinity Prime 4th ability, on cast, emitter arround the user. (can be something different)
  • Valkyr Prime 2nd ability, on cast, emitter arrond the user. (can be something different)
  • Valkyr Prime 4th ability, on decast, emitter arround the user. (can be something different)
  • Valkyr Prime 4th ability, while active, emitter on user chest.
  • Vauban Prime 1st ability, on grenade hit world, emitter on sticking location. (can be something different, related to Spark Hit impact vfx)
  • Vauban Prime 2nd ability (all), on grenade hit world, emitter on sticking location. (can be something different, related to Spark Hit impact vfx)
  • Vauban Prime 2nd ability (bounce), bounce duration, emitter arround grenade location inside bouncer area.
  • Vauban Prime 3rd ability, on grenade hit world, emitter on sticking location. (can be something different, related to Spark Hit impact vfx)
  • Wisp Shock Reservoir, on Reservoir location. (mote on player is clean, reservoir on world got emitter)
  • Zephyr Prime 3rd ability, on cast, emitter arround user. (can be something different)
  • Zephyr Prime 4th ability, on cast, emitter arround user. (can be something different)
Edited by Etzu
  • Upvote 1

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Posted (edited)

Screenshot databank.

Edited by Etzu

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Posted (edited)

Hotfix 25.0.7: Issue still present.

Added more melee cases and elemental vfx cases.

Hotfix 25.0.8: Issue still present.

Edited by Etzu

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Update 25.1.0: Issue still present.

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I can't tell based on the two pictures, but "particles" exist beyond the "GPU Particles" option.

The setting refers to the ability to accelerate (many)particles with the GPU. Otherwise, you just run a few particles on the CPU (or do more traditional things with textures/shaders - whatever the use case may be).

Given the list is quite long, i'd assume this is what you're seeing. I don't think every weapon has even had a particle pass - which allows the spawning of significantly more particles.

If the "High" vs. "Low" GPU particle setting shows a difference in the amount of particles spawned, you can probably assume it is hooked up to GPU acceleration. Otherwise, it's working as intended.

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Posted (edited)
Le 06/06/2019 à 05:50, MillbrookWest a dit :

I can't tell based on the two pictures, but "particles" exist beyond the "GPU Particles" option.

The setting refers to the ability to accelerate (many)particles with the GPU. Otherwise, you just run a few particles on the CPU (or do more traditional things with textures/shaders - whatever the use case may be).

Given the list is quite long, i'd assume this is what you're seeing. I don't think every weapon has even had a particle pass - which allows the spawning of significantly more particles.

If the "High" vs. "Low" GPU particle setting shows a difference in the amount of particles spawned, you can probably assume it is hooked up to GPU acceleration. Otherwise, it's working as intended.

Well there are some GPU particles that can be affected by physics and have collisions that could not run on CPU, we have "disabled" GPU particle settings and those particles were not there before the 25.x.x update. On my list I noted with "can be something different" all particles that could be CPU particles but that behave as GPU particles (as in not 2d sprites 100% fixed to relative position from their source).

The thing is that I don't remember that they mentionned working on new vfx for the 25.0.0 neither to read that on the patchnote, and that kind of fail can occure on Mainline updates.

Edited by Etzu

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Posted (edited)

Update 25.1.1: issue still present.

Added Zenith and robotics weapons.

Added environment issues.

Edited by Etzu

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Update 25.1.2: issue still present.

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Update 25.1.3: issue still present.

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Update 25.2.0: issue still present.

I'm starting to thing that the issue is indeed that the Particle System Quality setting "Low" applies an higher level setting, as now I have some vertical water splash on cetus fishing hotspot, never seen that before 25.x.x using "Low" setting for Particle System Quality, I had only the white sprite on the water surface nothing going vertically before.

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Posted (edited)

As mentioned above, there doesn't seem to be any issue since particles exist (and have existed before GPU acceleration) on the CPU.

image006.jpg

This is UE4: Left CPU. Right GPU.

Quote

This first effect shows off two very simple particle fountains, one created via standard CPU particle sprites and the other via GPU sprites. Notice that the fountain on the right - which uses GPU particles - is outputting significantly more particles than the other.

https://docs.unrealengine.com/en-US/Resources/ContentExamples/EffectsGallery/1_A/index.html

The only real difference between DE's implementation, and Epic's, is that DE spawn particles on the GPU itself, separate from the CPU spawn (Any object using old CPU particles work as they did before - Sparks on floor, bullet impact sparks etc,).

If you want to compare if the setting is not working as intended use: "High vs Low" and then compare to "Off" for objects that you think have an issue. This changes the number of particles spawned, and subsequently makes it rather noticeable if "off" remains the same as "low". If there is no change ("High vs low"), then the system is using traditional CPU particles (or just shader/texture maps).

If curious why CPU isn't phased out entirely, link above mentions some of the limitations of GPU particles.

Edited by MillbrookWest
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Il y a 2 heures, MillbrookWest a dit :

If you want to compare if the setting is not working as intended use: "High vs Low" and then compare to "Off" for objects that you think have an issue.

Well as the same setting (GPU particle disabled + Particle System Complexity Low) before 25.0.0 had way less particles than the same setting under 25.x.x. But I'm really think now that it's not some GPU particles that are rendered when the setting is "off" but some higher-complexity-level Particle System Complexity from the Medium value under the setting Low (we can't turn it off).

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i gotta ask, why do you want to disable those particles? they're already in such tiny amounts that they won't impact performance much (if at all).

and yes, what you're getting there is just CPU particles instead of GPU, that's how it was before the new particle system was introduced.

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Le 23/06/2019 à 22:45, Refticus a dit :

i gotta ask, why do you want to disable those particles? they're already in such tiny amounts that they won't impact performance much (if at all).

and yes, what you're getting there is just CPU particles instead of GPU, that's how it was before the new particle system was introduced.

It impacts performance a lot on my hardware, as in 5%-10% of additionnal GPU load out of nowhere.

 

## Update 25.4.0 ##

Issue type switcher from "GPU particle rendering problem" to "Particle System rendering problem".

Added an EDIT description of my actual think on the issue source.

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