(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx Posted May 29, 2019 Share Posted May 29, 2019 It is understandable that sometimes when a game is undergoing account migration, it's going to crash. What isn't understandable is that you deliberately allow people spend 30 minutes or more in game and then lose all their progress because somebody felt like ducking out, and the migration process crashed, causing all the other players to lose everything they'd worked for. If the migration process crashes and you're force returned to the orbiter, you should receive full credit for all progress made in the game to that point. It is ridiculous that this is still a thing. Absolutely absurd and ridiculous. It's is beyond all reason that this would be allowed to persist in a game that has been around this many years. I'm not asking you to make it so these crashes don't happen, I'm asking you respect your players enough to give them protection from losing all their work because your code fell apart mid migration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krc473 Posted May 29, 2019 Share Posted May 29, 2019 1 hour ago, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said: I'm asking you respect your players enough to give them protection from losing all their work because your code fell apart mid migration. And how would you propose DE does this? I have zero issues with host migrations. Mine has never failed recently. *I do not get that many as I tend to play with friends. But the ones I do get work fine. It might relate to your internet speed - mine is the fastest I can get in my country (~125 MB/s). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyrmius_Prime Posted May 29, 2019 Share Posted May 29, 2019 19 minutes ago, krc473 said: And how would you propose DE does this? The way literally every other game in the entire gaming industry does it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krc473 Posted May 29, 2019 Share Posted May 29, 2019 13 minutes ago, Wyrmius_Prime said: The way literally every other game in the entire gaming industry does it. Most other games I play use dedicated servers. So, I am not all that familiar with how other P2P games do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx Posted May 29, 2019 Author Share Posted May 29, 2019 8 hours ago, krc473 said: And how would you propose DE does this? There is a running tab of exactly what rewards you have earned or found, affinity, experience with weapons, all of it, you can actually check it at any time to see how things are going. I would propose that if the event crashes because their code crapped out, that when you're kicked back to orbiter you collect everything that that you had achieved at the time you were kicked. A lot of people will quit out of fissures after they find the thing they want because if somebody else quits and migration crashes they'll loose that rare item they were working for. All I'm asking for is them to not take everything away from you because THEIR code crashed, not because you did anything wrong. They absolutely can arrange this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krc473 Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 5 hours ago, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said: A lot of people will quit out of fissures after they find the thing they want because if somebody else quits and migration crashes they'll loose that rare item they were working for. I cannot say that I have ever encountered this. I frequently run public groups for endless fissures. In all runs I have done recently people have said in chat when they want to leave - they go to the point they want and say “I need to go”. Everyone goes to extraction if it’s the host, people stay if it’s not. That is not to say it never happens to other people. My region (Oce/Asia) is fairly good for not deliberately ruining stuff for others. In my experience anyway. 5 hours ago, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said: They absolutely can arrange this. I don’t disagree with you. I think DE could do it. The question is how much effort it would be. There is already a system in place that is meant to deliver lost items to you in the event that something goes wrong. The issue is that a failed host migration causes a different issue. When host migrations fail, DE has no record of your participation in the mission. That means there is no record of your items, affinity, or anything else - there is no mission summary generated for you in that mission. DE might have to design a system that saves your summary to a server every X minutes. This could have implications for how the game works. This system would still have flaws, say, if you disconnect between save periods. I do not know if there is a way to save it when a host migration is triggered, because the host is probably the one with that data. I do think DE should have a system where relic rewards are saved to a server in endless fissures. We have about 30 seconds of “wasted” time that DE could use for this, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx Posted May 30, 2019 Author Share Posted May 30, 2019 3 hours ago, krc473 said: DE might have to design a system that saves your summary to a server every X minutes. This could have implications for how the game works. This system would still have flaws, say, if you disconnect between save periods. I do not know if there is a way to save it when a host migration is triggered, because the host is probably the one with that data. I do think DE should have a system where relic rewards are saved to a server in endless fissures. We have about 30 seconds of “wasted” time that DE could use for this, Just have a snapshot saved on client side. Sure sure it can cause problems on pc because hackers will find a way to exploit the system. A relatively small problem, but still a problem. Console however, you wouldn't have to worry about hacking, all you need is a local backup of what you have achieved in a specific match, and if the system collapses, use that backup. I mean lets be real. If nothing else, saving more data on the device side instead of "migrating" it all to a new host would save half their problem, they might even be able to avoid having to migrate at all if they do it right. If nothing else, instead of "automatic migration, the host leaving the game could cause a message to flash for 10 seconds "host leaving game, do you wish to leave game or continue?".... Since right now you usually don't know who the host is, this would at least give you a chance to make a choice about rather or not you want to take the chance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krc473 Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 Just now, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said: Since right now you usually don't know who the host is On PC you can always know. Does console lack that functionality? You just look at the player list, the person with number 1 is the host. 1 minute ago, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said: A relatively small problem, but still a problem. I am not sure DE would agree that this is a 'small problem'. It may allow people to never have to buy a booster. If you could find a way to modify the data to double your affinity and drops for example. This could get you banned of course, but who knows if that would get detected or not. People can still hack it on console too. I am not sure why you think they wouldn't be able to, but there would be ways to do it. 3 minutes ago, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said: Just have a snapshot saved on client side. It depends where it is stored now as to how easy that will be. All of this comes down to one simple question: Is it worth the effort for DE? How many people does this issue actually affect, what are the potential negative implications of the system being changed etc? There are many questions that would have to be considered first. I am going to take the optimistic approach here: If this was easy DE would have done it already. The fact that they haven't means there must be some problems that we are not aware of that are preventing it. Yes, I absolutely realise that DE might not have done it due to laziness, but I think it is unfair to assume that is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx Posted May 30, 2019 Author Share Posted May 30, 2019 3 hours ago, krc473 said: I am going to take the optimistic approach here: If this was easy DE would have done it already. The fact that they haven't means there must be some problems that we are not aware of that are preventing it. Yes, I absolutely realise that DE might not have done it due to laziness, but I think it is unfair to assume that is the case. I am going to take the realistic approach. If you are going to take it from an angle of how hard it might be for them, considering they have repeatedly reworked core physics of the game as they are now doing with melee, there is no viable reason for a bug like this to have existed this long. Which brings up the obvious question. "Is it actually a feature to deny progress and keep people grinding". This is a free to play game after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krc473 Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 7 minutes ago, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said: "Is it actually a feature to deny progress and keep people grinding" I highly doubt it. This would be a terrible approach. Deliberately wasting people's time is not a good way to encourage people to play, or spend money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx Posted May 30, 2019 Author Share Posted May 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, krc473 said: I highly doubt it. This would be a terrible approach. Deliberately wasting people's time is not a good way to encourage people to play, or spend money. Why wouldn't they? Nobody is quitting the game over it, it's driving people to buy plat to use in the marketplace, and it's not like anyone could prove that it's not just a bug... You know Destiny had an invisible run cooldown timer for years and Bungie swore that it was just "damaged controllers".... Until finally they admitted the timer's existence at the end of the game's life cycle. People spent real world money on new controllers because of being mislead by a developer. Stuff like that just happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krc473 Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 1 minute ago, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said: Why wouldn't they? Nobody is quitting the game over it, it's driving people to buy plat to use in the marketplace, and it's not like anyone could prove that it's not just a bug... My assumption is that if it was intended more people would be affected. Most people I know have never had this happen. Something that periodically impacts 1% of players hardly seems like it would be intentional. **1% is a guess based on complaints I see. So many people say "never had an issue", very few say "I have lots of issues". I disagree that it would encourage people to buy plat. I don't spend money on Warframe unless I like what has been happening lately. This would stop me spending any money at all. You make out like this is a big issue, assuming that is true people would certainly be quitting. Who really likes playing a game that deletes their progress frequently? I do not think you are making a rational argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qmtma Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 even WORSE going into hours of fissure runs, host leaves or his network fails ALL REWARDS GONE WITH THE RELICS....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcira Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 (edited) On 2019-05-29 at 1:15 PM, krc473 said: And how would you propose DE does this? I have zero issues with host migrations. Mine has never failed recently. *I do not get that many as I tend to play with friends. But the ones I do get work fine. It might relate to your internet speed - mine is the fastest I can get in my country (~125 MB/s). Pretty sure this has nothing to do with your rather than the actual host´s internet connection. If you didn´t have problems with migration consider yourself lucky but don´t conclude everything is fine for everyone. There won´t be a 100% solution because of the way the current system works but they could implement more fail saves. However in this case the question would be whether this investment and effort is worth it or a different server structure would be more beneficial. Edited May 30, 2019 by Arcira Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam686 Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 There is this Host migration death where the game does not pause. This video is the sound of death behind the ship flying "Host Migration". If I had no more lives left, it will fail the mission in a middle of "Host Migration" and kick out of mission with nothing but a small amount of XP. Nothing to do with poor connection. This is a very bad problem when there are no more lives left, or in Arbitration with no lives at all. Very old topic: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1037365-host-migration-death-fails-to-pause-while-host-migrating/ And then there are clients that are a few seconds too slow to connect to new host when mission quickly ended, or bounty step completed. The poor player was too slow to connect to new host, and everything from mission is gone. No XP, no rotation rewards, no nothing. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/426679063 Video game consoles like PS4 complain more about this, as "Migrating Hosts" is slower then PC platform, taking over 1 minute. Why so slow? Looked at this PS4 topic: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1092959-host-migration-no-loot-bug/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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