Vuban Rework - A conceptual Concept

[chaotea]

So this is my Vuban Rework idea. Just some thoughts here that I hope flow on to the devs.

After seeing the Wukong rework i felt more at ease offering a more radical redesign of powers, though as a Vuban fan im keen on keeping much of the essence of the frame.

Note that by conceptual concept, I mean simply that I have a solid idea for a rework, but alot of the 'moving parts' of the concept have multiple ideas that could work. I think of it as a solid concept designed for general insperation.

A quick Forword: I wont be including stats and the like, thats in the devs realm so i leave it to them, though I will suggest general ideas such as 'this would have high damage' which is simply me trying to make clear the idea for my concept. Equally I tend to not use ability names and the like, though will sometimes use placeholder names for clarity.

 

With that out of the way, onto the concept.

My view on vuban is that he is primaraly a defence frame. He picks a spot and holds it down. As such I will design with a focus to this aspect, but also want him to function well in fast paced missions like exterminate. To this end the concept comes with the suggestion that his cast rate be fast, with abilities activating imediatly, and having any animations continue after the power activates. Hopefully this makes sense as we go on.

I've drawn alot of inspiration for this concept from the engineer class in Team Fortress 2. Not only in how deployable weapons can be used and interacted with, but also in how sometimes a good static defence is using a static offence. Dropping a low level turret into enemy front lines can make all the difference.

I will use spoiler tags to keep things tidy.

 

Passive

Spoiler

Friendly non-player allied entities (defence targets, companions, objectives, ect) recieve a flat bonus to armor when Vuban is nearby.

 

Ability 1

Spoiler

Tesla Turret -

On cast Vuban deploys a turret infront of him.

(Visually I picture something like the Photon cannons in Starcraft 2. A static flat platform with a floating gun above it. Design wise im thinking it would use triangular shapes. The prime would have more ornimentation).

The turret fires at nearby enemies. Casting the ability on the turret again upgrades it to the next level, at the cost of energy. There are 3 levels of turrets, It is created at level 1.

Level 1: The turret fires a Lightning Arc. Fast base fire rate.

Level 2: Adds a AoE pulse centered on the turret that damages enemies. Medium base fire rate.

Level 3: Adds a fast moving homing missile that tracks enemys. Slow base fire rate.

 

The turret would also be Vubans Exalted Weapon. Capable of being modded seperatly using Primary weapon mods. Most mod interactions would be normal, however Fire Rate and would effect the turrets uniquely. The turrets final damage would equal to damage / fire rate. Having a lower fire rate gives the turrest a slower but more powerful arsenal. A higher fire rate offers a faster but lower damage weapon. The DPS wouldnt be changed, but it opens up more choice for the player. Reload would effect the missiles fire rate only, acting as a bonus without effecting its DPS.

Vuban can keep a number of turrets up (maybe 6 like wisps motes). On creating additional turrets, the earliest turret is destroyed. Turrets cannot otherwise be destroyed, but power negation enemys can disable them temporarily. The turrets have no duration.

Modding:

Strength effects damage output (multiplier applied after loadout calculated).

Duration effects fire rate (multiplier applied after loadout calculated, doesnt effect damage).

Range effects targeting distance / Distance of pulse.

Efficiency effects initial cost and upgrade cost.

 

Note on nullifier interation: Should the turret touch a nullifier bubble, it isnt destroyed, but instead becomes disabled while touching the bubble, and like mesas peacemaker cannot target enemies in bubble. This should avoid fustration of loosing high energy cost upgraded turrets, while still offering incentives to take nullifiers out.

 

Ability 2

Spoiler

Mine Layer -

On cast Vuban deploys a layer infront of him.

(Visually like the turrets. It would have the same platform but with a horizontal floating disk above it. Design wise im thinking it would be slightly thick with flattened edges. The prime would have more ornimentation).

The layer deploys mines in an AoE that detonate when enemies get close to the mines (detonation radius would be around half that for blast radius). The type of mine changes based on level. Casting the ability on the layer again upgrades it to the next level, at the cost of energy. There are 3 levels of layer, It is created at level 1.

Level 1: The layer periodically ejects a mine to a random location in its AoE. The mine layer can have up to 4 mines active at a time. Mines deal blast damage

Level 2: Upgrades all new and existing mines to cluster mines. These release aditional smaller explosions which detonate shortly after the primary explosion. Adds 2 maximum mines.

Level 3: Adds shrapnel damage to explosions. These cause puncture and slash procs to explosions. Adds 2 maximum mines. Increases mine deployment rate.

Vuban can keep a number of layers up (maybe 3). On creating additional totems, the earliest layer is destroyed. Layers cannot otherwise be destroyed, but power negation enemys can disable them temporarily. The layers have no duration. Should a layer be destroyed its mines detonate. Should it be disabled, its mines remain uneffected.

Modding:

Strength effects damage of mines.

Duration effects mine deploy rate.

Range effects deploy AoE size.

Efficiency effects initial cost and upgrade cost.

 

Note on nullifier interation: Same as turrets, but mines continue to function as normal.

 

Ability 3

Spoiler

Bastille Totem -

On cast Vuban deploys a totem infront of him.

(Visually like the turrets. It would have the same platform but with a verical floating pillar above it. Design wise im thinking it would be more cilindrical. The prime would have more ornimentation).

The totem projects an AoE that offers benifits depending on the level. Casting the ability on the totem again upgrades it to the next level, at the cost of energy. There are 3 levels of totem, It is created at level 1.

Level 1: The totem periodically releases a pulse the pushes enemies out of its AoE. Not that the push is strong and ragdols enemys. Placed correctly it could knock enemies into pits.

Level 2: Adds a damage reduction to all allies in its AoE.

Level 3: Adds a damage reflecter to the reduction. Any ruduced damage is applied to any enemys inside its AoE with a damage multiplier.

Vuban can keep a number of totems up (maybe 4). On creating additional totems, the earliest totem is destroyed. totems cannot otherwise be destroyed, but power negation enemys can disable them temporarily. The totems have no duration.

Modding:

Strength effects damage reduction and relection multiplier.

Duration effects pulse rate.

Range effects AoE size.

Efficiency effects initial cost and upgrade cost.

 

Note on nullifier interation: Same as turrets, but no totem benifits are applied inside nulifier bubbles.

 

Ability 4

Spoiler

Overcharge -

Overcharge is a toggle ability. While active, all turrets gain increased damage, punch though & cause fire procs on damage. All totems restore sheilds and ammo to allies in its AoE over time. All mine layers gain increased deploy rates and slow nearby enemies.

Modding:

Strength effects all bonus's.

Duration effects drain over time.

Range has no effect.

Efficiency effects casting cost and drain over time.

 

And thats the concept. Over all Im looking to improve the impact Vuban has on the battlefield. Visually and otherwise. The focus on more visually striking deployables allows these constructs to act as focus points in a battle. Players can stand near turrets for aditional fire support, or leave them to defend locations while the focus elsewhere. Bastilles can be useful forward resuply points, or positioned to aid defending key locations. Mine layers can  offer useful damage and disruption at choke points, or be positioned as early warning devices for sneaky units. Overcharge as the ultimate is probably the bigest departure from the original. There were two reasons for its design. Firstly, it feels quite good to have one ability that is less focused on management. Second, this Vuban is going to be very energy hungry. So using energy for the overally buff is a tactical choice.

 

Now onto the 'Moving Parts' section. These are alternative ideas or musings I had:

Deployables & Health

Spoiler

I had thought about giving the various deployables health. But due to the nature of upgrading the turrets I didnt want to have them just disapear. Otherwise people wouldnt even bother upgrading. Its for the same reason I didnt offer a duration for the turrets.

Still I did think of a possible implimentation for health on deployables, and how that would impact the powers.

Health: Deployables are now targetable. On cast or rebuild they are invunerable for a few seconds. On destruction of a deployable only the floating section is destroyed, rendering the deployable unable to act. The base of the deployable will remain and will begin to rebuild the floating section. This will be immune to damage until rebuilt. The deployable retains its level. Casting the relevent upgrade ability on a destroyed deployable rebuilds it instantly. Casting Overcharge heals all deployables rapidly over time.

I feel this would be a fair compromise in this situation. Modding the exalted weapons reload stat here would instead effect the repair speed of all deployables.

Development & Design Desisions

Spoiler

While the finished concept is one im happy with, thats not to say its the best it could be, and I welcome feedback and discussion on this. The concept even evolved as I wrote it. When i started writing, the totems were the second ability, and the third was the ability to upgrade turrets. Recasting on turrets was going to destroy them in order to allow more tactical repositioning, but I realised this would not only be a waste of an ability slow, but also somewhat counter intuitive. It make sense that you could use the same ability to double up a deployable. And so mine layer was introduced, based more off a concept I had for a deployable secondary weapon.

Another thing that changed was the visual look of how I'd imagined the deployables. Originally they were thought of as blocky tower like strucures. It was only as I was thinking of the now rejected idea of giving them health did i deside on something sleaker and more 'how does it even work' looking, which is way more 'Warframe'.

Deployables & Effects

Spoiler

As mentioned, my concepts arnt set in stone, and I have other ideas.

The turrets for example could be more ballistic, having a machine gun at level one, missiles at level two, and level 3 upgrading the bullets to have high punch through while missiles gain napalm effects. Or the turrets coulbe be more lazer based, firing a continuous beam at level 1, fining sniper like lazers ant level 2, then having the beam gain damage as it fires and letting the sniper always crit at level 3.

The totems could offer different buffs, or even enhance turrets or layers in range. It could drop buffs to focus on movement and damage prevention.

The mines could be altered to create kamakaze drones, or even to fire morters. It could change to be an AoE gas like weapon, doing light damage to those who walk through its AoE, with additional levels giving 100% procs.

And thats a wrap, hope this interests some people. I'd love to play this version of Vuban myself, and love to think of the synergy between it and frames like frost, volt or limbo.

[peterc3]

Turrets. Groundbreaking.

[chaotea]

41 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Turrets. Groundbreaking.

Not trying to be groundbreaking, but present a concept that might be enjoyable to use. Much of the functionality exists within vuban to some extent, but I wanted something more than throwing golf balls.

Also, the sarcasm is hardly nessisary. Even if you dont like saying positive things on the forumns, which is fine, its still not cool and doesnt help anything.

[Atsia]

Why the hell does everyone want to go back to some variation of Vauban's terrible passive? He finally has one that fits and is useful for him.

Edited May 29, 2019 by Atsia
grammer *@##$es

[chaotea]

15 hours ago, Atsia said:

Why the hell does everyone want to go back to some variation of Vauban's terrible passive? He finally has one that fits and is useful for him.

Because his current passive would be useless with this power set? Did you only get as far as the passive before commenting though?

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

Vauban rework ?

Just increase his armor value to 300 (prime, 150 not prime) and keep his current passive
(there is no point of having a squishy frame that rely on CC with current meta, just make him as "tough" as Saryn or Hildryn).

Make his 2nd a time limited "turret" that is an exalted weapons. It can be pick-up as an Heavy weapon or left on the ground as a defensive turret
(with above average status chance so that you can "choose" the damage type when making your build)

Make his 1st reset the duration of his 2nd, 3nd and 4rd when cast upon them

Make his 4th also proc' corrosive, not only magnetic.

Augments :
change Bastille augment to waves that resplenish shields for friends within the radius

change Vortex augment to make it a spinning vortex around vauban at the expense of some drain/s
 

 

 

 

[chaotea]

4 hours ago, MonsterOfMyOwn said:

Vauban rework ?

Just increase his armor value to 300 (prime, 150 not prime) and keep his current passive
(there is no point of having a squishy frame that rely on CC with current meta, just make him as "tough" as Saryn or Hildryn).

 

I think that 'Just' making him like other frames is pointless, as you may as well use other frames. Also hes never seemed overly squishy to me. His survivability isnt the issue, its his powers being near useless against anything that isnt infested.

 

4 hours ago, MonsterOfMyOwn said:

Make his 2nd a time limited "turret" that is an exalted weapons. It can be pick-up as an Heavy weapon or left on the ground as a defensive turret

I cant see picking it up as a great idea as the turret would likely be less powerful than a regular weapon.

4 hours ago, MonsterOfMyOwn said:

Make his 1st reset the duration of his 2nd, 3nd and 4rd when cast upon them

What does it do alone though? Warframes start at level 1, and dont unlock another power for alittle while. Thats why all warframe 1st powers do something and dont require other powers to function. Also im guessing this is based on the original powers and not my concept.

4 hours ago, MonsterOfMyOwn said:

Make his 4th also proc' corrosive, not only magnetic.

Not overly needed, his current 4th is just to hold them in place.

 

Out of interest, did you read any of the concept or just comment based on the title? Because the only thing similar is the exalted weapon idea.

[CodeUltimate]

9 minutes ago, chaotea said:

I think that 'Just' making him like other frames is pointless, as you may as well use other frames. Also hes never seemed overly squishy to me. His survivability isnt the issue, its his powers being near useless against anything that isnt infested.

 

I cant see picking it up as a great idea as the turret would likely be less powerful than a regular weapon.

What does it do alone though? Warframes start at level 1, and dont unlock another power for alittle while. Thats why all warframe 1st powers do something and dont require other powers to function. Also im guessing this is based on the original powers and not my concept.

Not overly needed, his current 4th is just to hold them in place.

 

Out of interest, did you read any of the concept or just comment based on the title? Because the only thing similar is the exalted weapon idea.

 lol 

Edited May 30, 2019 by CodeUltimate
8v

[chaotea]

1 hour ago, CodeUltimate said:

 lol 

?

[Freeloader_oO]

 

I've finally managed to build Vauban Prime, mod it properly and play around with endgame weapons. He is so much fun! However, I noticed 2 abilities I didn't use most of the time and after playing some time I think I got some suggestions that could modernize Vauban to current playstyle of Warframe.

Spoiler

Ability 1 - Grenade

Throw grenade that does damage AOE damage on impact and throws enemies in the air like ground slam. Pretty straightforward and new players have a cool ability that actually does something.

Spoiler

Ability 2 - Mine explosions

Vauban triggers a minefield in front of him (that he placed while no one was looking obviously) that deals damage to enemies, BUT deal additional damage to airborne targets and when damaged (or killed, see what works best) they drop resources that fill Vauban's HP and/or Energy that he needs to pick up. Kinda like Desecrate from Necros, but only he can pick up. This ability can be combo'd with 1 Grenade to throw enemies in air and then activate 2. It will also provide a nice synergy between abilities and will yield survivability in form of energy and hp Vauban can pick up.

Spoiler

Ability 3 - Bastille

No need to change 3 Bastille, works great. Plus, you get an additional combo with 2 Mine explosions that can deal extra damage to hovering minions trapped by Bastille.

Spoiler

Ability 4 - Vortex

No need to change, works great. Plus, you can throw in 1 Grenade into Vortex for some serious damage.

 

Viola, Vauban fixed. Now he has a similar synergy between abilities like Nidus, which is also a fun frame. Survivability ability is kinda what's missing, something like 2 could integrate hp regen into a fun game loop between lobbing grenades, throwing enemies in air and activating mine fields. Tweak Vaubans armor a bit, slap Health Conversion mod on him and he is good to go.

Now, I'm going back to play more Vauban. Any suggestions or feedback is welcome!

[chaotea]

17 hours ago, Freeloader_oO said:

Now, I'm going back to play more Vauban. Any suggestions or feedback is welcome!

Should have really posted this on your own topic rather than as a reply on mine, you'd get more traction.

Some interesting ideas, but the issue with vuban seems deeper. As i said, I do like him, but his bastile is his only worth while ability, as theres so many warframes that do vortex better. Plus with no form of damage reduction hes too frail to take on high level missions. Plus his entire 'concept' theme is that of deployable weapons, so your suggestions for 1 & 2 seem alittle off, though not bad per say.

[Freeloader_oO]

I see, sorry for posting on your thread, didn't want duplicates since there was one Vauban thread at the time.

You do make a point, the concept around a Warframe is important, that abilities make sense. Otherwise, devs would've probably fixed him by now by adding random abilities/mechanics. What I threw as ideas were merely a freshmans perspective from someone who hasn't played Vauban and didn't understand/know any "theme" revolving around him. I'll try in another thread some other time. Thanks for inspiring discussion!

[(PSN)chibitonka]

21 hours ago, chaotea said:

Should have really posted this on your own topic rather than as a reply on mine, you'd get more traction.

Some interesting ideas, but the issue with vuban seems deeper. As i said, I do like him, but his bastile is his only worth while ability, as theres so many warframes that do vortex better. Plus with no form of damage reduction hes too frail to take on high level missions. Plus his entire 'concept' theme is that of deployable weapons, so your suggestions for 1 & 2 seem alittle off, though not bad per say.

 

1 hour ago, Freeloader_oO said:

I see, sorry for posting on your thread, didn't want duplicates since there was one Vauban thread at the time.

You do make a point, the concept around a Warframe is important, that abilities make sense. Otherwise, devs would've probably fixed him by now by adding random abilities/mechanics. What I threw as ideas were merely a freshmans perspective from someone who hasn't played Vauban and didn't understand/know any "theme" revolving around him. I'll try in another thread some other time. Thanks for inspiring discussion!

Just a Wukong Major with a Vauban Minor. Pineapple is a type of explosive. 😄  Combat Engineer that huffed too much gunpowder xD

May he rain down death from above, from within and below. Sundering our enemies on his canvas of carnage with detonation as his brush, and their suffering as his paint.

Edited June 1, 2019 by (PS4)chibitonka

[chaotea]

On 2019-06-01 at 10:33 AM, (PS4)chibitonka said:

Just a Wukong Major with a Vauban Minor. Pineapple is a type of explosive. 😄  Combat Engineer that huffed too much gunpowder xD

May he rain down death from above, from within and below. Sundering our enemies on his canvas of carnage with detonation as his brush, and their suffering as his paint.

You should put a brief introduction explaining what your post is about.

The passive does too much. Pick 1 thing.

 

Not bad, the abilities have good synergy, though alot of the abilities seem overly complex. Im not sure any of them need charge mechanics.

[(PSN)chibitonka]

22 minutes ago, chaotea said:

You should put a brief introduction explaining what your post is about.

The passive does too much. Pick 1 thing.

 

Not bad, the abilities have good synergy, though alot of the abilities seem overly complex. Im not sure any of them need charge mechanics.

Passive does too much.. yet we have frames with passive traits that aren't lined up in their passive. o.o

Those complex? O.O I was keeping them simple x:

Edited June 3, 2019 by (PS4)chibitonka