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Operation: Hostile Mergers Leaderboard Information

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9 hours ago, IspanoLFW said:

*sigh* As much as I agree with taking action on those that exploit, proof is REQUIRED. Proof that they were, not that they weren't. That's how it works in the real world too. If DE feels they are using exploits, they will do something. You aren't adding anything here.

 

9 hours ago, --Q--Krakov said:

You want valid argumentation that it is not an "exploit" run?

LET'S DO IT MA BOI

First off, the 151k scores were made after the fix off the exploit, so kinda hard to do so, but let's be honest that won't satisfy you, because you already seems way biased against Quasars no matter what.

 

Second legit argument would be that the 150k score was made even before the big wipe and funny thing is : The score stayed. So it would mean that DE verified the run and it was in no way an exploit. 

 

 

8 hours ago, BirdOfSong said:

Not every run was illigemetent. However thanks to the community every run is now considered an exploit run if it hits over 20k points.

Many players and the runs, legitimate or not were in mission for over TWELVE hours to achieve even the 200k+ mark.

 

 

8 hours ago, rand0mname said:

So much salt for someone who do not care...

Let me guess, this is your alt account, your main is suspended and you are not happy that someone either slipped the net or (the horror) just was that good to get so far without exploits?

Prove me wrong ;).

http://prntscr.com/nvn57o

 

still leggit?

🙂

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Yahzee said:

Read again "repeat offender of exploits or suspicious behaviour" are you or your friends planning on repeating exploits or have done so in the past? No? Then there's no ban. Don't put it on the devs the fact you saw a bug and decided to take advantage of it in a competitive game mode.

Bold of you to assume I have friends or been affected by this. Neither actually, I just can't agree with a ban based on a build of a game. Maybe DE should test things before launching, instead of then throwing a strop and banning players for doing too good. 

Also there's no prize for top clan or top score, so really, how has this really harmed the game/player base? It did not. 

What is a repeat offender? Last clan operation was 2 years ago - are we really dragging up things which happened years ago now? - edit: I figured repeat offender is someone who did multiple extremely long runs. Again, affects no others players, not hacking other players, it's not really a competitive thing as everyone has the same clan goal, so really, do players need a ban for playing the game and not taking their break every hour just so they can brag in later days? I would say no. 

And if not blame the devs then who to blame? Get real dude. This is like when parents mess up but still find a way to punish their children. 
 

Edited by MetalGrayFox
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Posted (edited)

Absolute highlight of this topic is how ppl act like they are not adults capable of understanding one simple rule even after multiple explanations that got ignored by side of ones who broke the rules. Veterans in this game who got ''surprised'' how DE is banning for something that was painfully obvious exploit.
And on top of it they also got the nerve to insult other ppl that wanted scores to be fair.

And some things are even worth printing to slap on the wall and have a nice laugh whenever I wake up.

Edited by Vengeance_A
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1 hour ago, Lemuroza said:

No need to be so passive aggressive. I don't even see the reason why you're so angry. Are you one of the people that got their score wiped?

Apart from that I'm still shocked that some people are willing to waste few hours of their life per run to have the biggest number next to their name. I love competitive measuring contests.

Angry? Passive aggressive? Me being one of them?
Drawing many conclusions much?

Maybe conclusions are much. Passive is also aggressive me.
Competitions bring me smile and competitions bring people together and together is happy and happy is smile.
Also happy is me and love is Wisp

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hace 3 horas, ---Dradon--- dijo:

I'm sorry but that one is 100% your fault DE, if you would have tested a minimum your game mode you would have seen that there was an overflow past a certain point. Those run shouldn't be cleared as it was a forced bug and not something that player do.

in the TOS it is specified that the use of exploits can be a reason for banning.
There is no excuse to use exploits, 

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Posted (edited)
il y a 23 minutes, -HT-Mangoose a dit :

in the TOS it is specified that the use of exploits can be a reason for banning.
There is no excuse to use exploits, 

The problem is not the ToS, the int overflow was a major oversight from DE and should have been tested, not like you could avoid it or anything, you were forced to deal with it once you reached round 41. ToS or not, this one cannot possibly fall under exploit. Loki and neg crit damage on the other hand are exploit, but not the health overflow.

Edited by ---Dradon---
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hace 8 minutos, ---Dradon--- dijo:

The problem is not the ToS, the int overflow was a major oversight DE and should have been tested, not like you could avoid it or anything, you were forced to deal with it once you reached round 41. ToS or not, this one cannot possibly fall under exploit. Loki and neg crit damage on the other hand are exploit, but not the health overflow.

the problem that you and other players misunderstand in their own way more convenience.

  It does not matter if the exploit was the fault of the developers especially if we talk about a game that is in development, the abuse of exploits on its own initiative by the player to have an advantage in a "competitive" event and repetitively is clearly an abuse to obtain an advantage, knowing that he should not do it.

Anyway DE can ban without any reason, is specified in the conditions of use of the product and it is better to burn it in your memories

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, -HT-Mangoose said:

the problem that you and other players misunderstand in their own way more convenience.

  It does not matter if the exploit was the fault of the developers especially if we talk about a game that is in development, the abuse of exploits on its own initiative by the player to have an advantage in a "competitive" event and repetitively is clearly an abuse to obtain an advantage, knowing that he should not do it.

Anyway DE can ban without any reason, is specified in the conditions of use of the product and it is better to burn it in your memories

How do you abuse a hp glitch that automatically applies when a certain round is reached and it affects every player and team once the round starts? So basically everyone who could reach wave 42 was abusive and a bad person for not quitting automatically. :nerd: Makes me think about entrapment situations...

Edited by laserlight2
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So I ran this event with my clan and did the bare minimum for a gold trophy. But let me see if I understand this correctly. 

A person uses Loki. That person sees a Demolyst. That Said person runs off the edge of a tile with a "drop" IE you the player would respawn on a ledge if you continued to fall or an enemy would die. Said ledge jumper presumably has a line-of-sight of the Demolyst. The Loki that jumped might aim glide if needed (or not) and looks at Demolyst. Said ledge jumping, possibly aim-gliding, Loki activates his third ability to "switch teleport" the Demolyst over a drop. The Demolyst is switched with Loki. Loki is back on solid ground. The Demolyst falls to their death. 

Correct me if I am wrong but is that not the gist of what the exploit was? I see that using "Bugged teleport volume" was something considered in what defined the exploit. If someone could elaborate further on what that means it would help me to understand this situation. Because if what I just listed in the above paragraph is true, and this is the "exploit" then I would have to agree with the notion that bans/wipes/suspensions are unjustified. The use of unconventional/creative means of solving a problem is not a bug. If the DEV's had meant for the Demolyst to be immune to falling off ledges, and other tactics, they should have properly tested this new game-mode before hosting an event (competitive or otherwise), especially on a tile-set that emphasizes the use of parkour and maneuvering over/around drop-pit hazards.  

Using a glitch to manipulate values (like with the negative damage value from what I understand) is fair-game for moderation and disciplinary actions. Otherwise, the precedent being established is that playing the game with unconventional means is grounds for suspensions which lead to bans if you continue to play as such. If that is the case then they might as well suspend people who used Arcanes to temporarily stop Demolysts from moving like "Exodia Epidemic" and "Magus Lockdown." The might as well suspend people who use "Arcane Grace," "Quick Thinking," "Primed Flow," and "Hunter Adrenaline" on their tanking frames for increased survivability.

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I get it, people were using certain methods that you (DE) didn't like because they were kinda super cheesy. Clans who are trying to compete for high scores are always going to think of, look for, and use the best strategies. The thing is, it's difficult to determine which things are okay and which things aren't ahead of time. Because those clans don't know, they get punished. Their scores get reset back to whatever their last "legit" run was. The funny thing about this, there are people on Warframe whose last legit runs also used "illicit" strategies. Those peoples' scores are still there. You want to protect the sanctity of the competition. That's understandable. I get it. However, this level of "protection" is almost man-handling. I know it can suck to see players using methods you didn't intend for, but it's also difficult for the players to ascertain what's considered "illicit". I doubt players want to be using these "illicit" strategies too, especially if they're gonna be punished for using them. Don't punish the players, instead, work with the players and learn from them. Then, set up stuff ahead of time to prevent these illicit strategies the next time. It might also be helpful to have some sort of discussion on what might be considered as illicit, looking at past history and events. Just my two cents, for what it's worth. 

 

Pre-edit (Also, I think it's been said before, but some players may not even know that what they're doing is against the dev's wishes. What if a new player rolls some riven with negative damage and accidentally uses it in the event and keeps using it because it seems like a good strategy. They wouldn't even know what's going on and wouldn't realize they are, essentially, abusing this illicit strategy. They'd get an account suspension, maybe even a "permanent game ban")

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4 hours ago, laserlight2 said:

How do you abuse a hp glitch that automatically applies when a certain round is reached and it affects every player and team once the round starts? So basically everyone who could reach wave 42 was abusive and a bad person for not quitting automatically. :nerd: Makes me think about entrapment situations...

By continuing the match and taking advantage of it. If you saw the issue, decided to stop the mission at that point and report it, that would be different. Abusing it means you see it, realize that it's not intended, but keep going.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, RogueSoldier said:

So I ran this event with my clan and did the bare minimum for a gold trophy. But let me see if I understand this correctly. 

A person uses Loki. That person sees a Demolyst. That Said person runs off the edge of a tile with a "drop" IE you the player would respawn on a ledge if you continued to fall or an enemy would die. Said ledge jumper presumably has a line-of-sight of the Demolyst. The Loki that jumped might aim glide if needed (or not) and looks at Demolyst. Said ledge jumping, possibly aim-gliding, Loki activates his third ability to "switch teleport" the Demolyst over a drop. The Demolyst is switched with Loki. Loki is back on solid ground. The Demolyst falls to their death. 

Correct me if I am wrong but is that not the gist of what the exploit was? I see that using "Bugged teleport volume" was something considered in what defined the exploit. If someone could elaborate further on what that means it would help me to understand this situation. Because if what I just listed in the above paragraph is true, and this is the "exploit" then I would have to agree with the notion that bans/wipes/suspensions are unjustified. The use of unconventional/creative means of solving a problem is not a bug. If the DEV's had meant for the Demolyst to be immune to falling off ledges, and other tactics, they should have properly tested this new game-mode before hosting an event (competitive or otherwise), especially on a tile-set that emphasizes the use of parkour and maneuvering over/around drop-pit hazards.  

Using a glitch to manipulate values (like with the negative damage value from what I understand) is fair-game for moderation and disciplinary actions. Otherwise, the precedent being established is that playing the game with unconventional means is grounds for suspensions which lead to bans if you continue to play as such. If that is the case then they might as well suspend people who used Arcanes to temporarily stop Demolysts from moving like "Exodia Epidemic" and "Magus Lockdown." The might as well suspend people who use "Arcane Grace," "Quick Thinking," "Primed Flow," and "Hunter Adrenaline" on their tanking frames for increased survivability.

Normally when an enemy gets dumped into a pit, such as via Switch Teleport, it gets teleported back onto solid ground, much like a plyuer or item would be. The problem is that the boundary that triggers this in certain spots in the new tilesets was bugged and didn't work properly. So people would swith the demo there, it would fall and despawn(not actually die, though still counted for the mission) and there you go. They exploited something that would not be normally possible. Instead of reporting it and not repeating it.

All of this info has been stated multiple times in this thread.

Edited by IspanoLFW
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2 hours ago, Atmosquake said:

I get it, people were using certain methods that you (DE) didn't like because they were kinda super cheesy. Clans who are trying to compete for high scores are always going to think of, look for, and use the best strategies. The thing is, it's difficult to determine which things are okay and which things aren't ahead of time. Because those clans don't know, they get punished. Their scores get reset back to whatever their last "legit" run was. The funny thing about this, there are people on Warframe whose last legit runs also used "illicit" strategies. Those peoples' scores are still there. You want to protect the sanctity of the competition. That's understandable. I get it. However, this level of "protection" is almost man-handling. I know it can suck to see players using methods you didn't intend for, but it's also difficult for the players to ascertain what's considered "illicit". I doubt players want to be using these "illicit" strategies too, especially if they're gonna be punished for using them. Don't punish the players, instead, work with the players and learn from them. Then, set up stuff ahead of time to prevent these illicit strategies the next time. It might also be helpful to have some sort of discussion on what might be considered as illicit, looking at past history and events. Just my two cents, for what it's worth. 

 

Pre-edit (Also, I think it's been said before, but some players may not even know that what they're doing is against the dev's wishes. What if a new player rolls some riven with negative damage and accidentally uses it in the event and keeps using it because it seems like a good strategy. They wouldn't even know what's going on and wouldn't realize they are, essentially, abusing this illicit strategy. They'd get an account suspension, maybe even a "permanent game ban")

Something that doesn't work anywhere else, all of a sudden magically working on a super tanky charging mini boss... ok.

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Posted (edited)

So, now that I've read all the pages in this thread and got all the info about the exploit and how to do it, I got to this conclusion: Players got caught red-handed doing something they knew they shouldn't do and are angry because they got caught and there are consequences for their actions.

Yeah, that is the same story as always. Every single time someone finds a hole in the wall where you can take a peek at the bathrooms, there is people with one eye looking through it. Then, they get mad when the principal finds them using the hole and get punished.

They should learn to play without using exploits so this doesn't happen. Should DE try not to give us maps and such with bugs that we could benefit from? Yes, sure. However, those are mistakes that EVERYONE can make, that is why there is a Support service, hofixes and such. Mistakes can (and will) happen and then be fixed. However, players that know something is wrong but do it anyway have no right to complain when they get caught. And the consequences are very clear.

Edited by Hawner
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To be honest, I don't even really understand what Reb said, stuff like that always goes over my head, but I AM happy that exploiters are being punished. Why should people playing clean come after people who clearly shouldnt be playing at all, since they can't without cheating apparently. How lame.

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Il y a 4 heures, IspanoLFW a dit :

By continuing the match and taking advantage of it. If you saw the issue, decided to stop the mission at that point and report it, that would be different. Abusing it means you see it, realize that it's not intended, but keep going.

The problem is that for the one that want to score, of course they won't stop. It's a competition after all, people want to get the best score and this was a hole in DE coding that people saw and probably did think it was normal (since DE never fixed the scaling in this game and probably REALLY should now as it show it have it's flaw). Basically blame DE on that one, not the people that played like if it was normal (and there were A LOT of people that got affected by that one).

 

On a final word, I think this event is terribly managed, the rule are changing and there are constant wipe, I remember DE wiping score in the past but never did ban and such. However, this one especially show terrible flaw in how DE manage stuff (which is basically, get too many complain, crack on the pressure and take quick decision that can affect everyone). If this is what's going to happen in the future, then it's just better to not do event at all. Honestly, I hope DE will learn from their mistake.

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16 minutes ago, ---Dradon--- said:

The problem is that for the one that want to score, of course they won't stop. It's a competition after all, people want to get the best score and this was a hole in DE coding that people saw and probably did think it was normal (since DE never fixed the scaling in this game and probably REALLY should now as it show it have it's flaw). Basically blame DE on that one, not the people that played like if it was normal (and there were A LOT of people that got affected by that one).

 

On a final word, I think this event is terribly managed, the rule are changing and there are constant wipe, I remember DE wiping score in the past but never did ban and such. However, this one especially show terrible flaw in how DE manage stuff (which is basically, get too many complain, crack on the pressure and take quick decision that can affect everyone). If this is what's going to happen in the future, then it's just better to not do event at all. Honestly, I hope DE will learn from their mistake.

If you think that super tanky mobs at wave 40, suddently start getting one shot at wave 41 is normal, then you deserve any punishment for continuing. A bug slipping through the cracks is, yes, the developers fault. But it is NEVER an excuse to exploit, especially in a competetive environment of any kind. NEVER. This is not some new concept in gaming.

Honestly I hope players learn from their mistakes... but they never do. Stop pushing ALL the blame on the devs, the players that exploit have no one to blame except themselves.

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Posted (edited)

Looks like some people don't even read the post before commenting.

Why are you all mad about DE suspending people? Only EXTREME ABUSERS got suspended until 3 June.

Casual users of exploit got their score reset. 

And REPEAT OFFENDER of EXPLOITS or suspicious behaviour got Perma Banned, which is fair because they had a chance. They used an exploit again they got banned Surprise pikachu face. This is fair, i said this 3 times already, are you guys for real? If you don't read all the messages, at least read Rebecca's. If you play with fire you get burned.

Edited by DedzyH

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à l’instant, DedzyH a dit :

Looks like some people don't even read the post before commenting.

Why are you all mad about DE suspending people? Only EXTREME ABUSERS got suspended until 3 June.

Casual players just got their score reset. 

And REPEAT OFFENDER of EXPLOITS or suspicious behaviour got Perma Banned, which is fair because they had a chance. They used an exploit again they got banned Surprise pikachu face. This is fair, i said this 3 times already, are you guys for real read? If you don't read all the messages, at least read Rebecca's. If you play with fire you get burned.

Actually, the abuser are not suspended, they just can't score.

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Posted (edited)
В 30.05.2019 в 04:36, Aeon94 сказал:

They didn't just Switch Teleport to keep enemies away or benefit from ST augment. They intentionally threw them into pits / out of bound areas to instantly kill them , no matter the level.

Which is actually hillarious. Props for them for being creative. And as always, "-" for Digital Extrmemes (theyre called Extremes not for nothing after all) for punishing creativity and non coockie cutter problem solutions.

Its not that kind of behavior like host migration exploit that allowed *some* essentially to do almost nothing to get into the 10% on the clan score and was an actual exploit - which is also wasnt punished in any way and allowed clans to get access to arguable exclusive rewar as well.

I also dont think that its so easily achieved as well by anyone who just jumps into mission either. In short, DE is like always being DE. Instead of solving real problems like enemy scaling, host migrations and such, lets remove "exploits" after hours of finding them out. And here " " are actually needed.

 

And if anyone is banning people or preventing them to participate in the event for using a freaking teleport is just. Lmao. For using an actual IN GAME legit mechanic/ability in a way that developers never thought of because theyre not players and dont play their game. Makes me glad I no longer care about clan scores or any other scores in this game, or rewards. Next thing you'll now they will start banning you for using fatal teleport on dysruptors or bosses to farm them. 

Edited by -Temp0-
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30 minutes ago, -Temp0- said:

Which is actually hillarious. Props for them for being creative. And as always, "-" for Digital Extrmemes (theyre called Extremes not for nothing after all) for punishing creativity and non coockie cutter problem solutions.

Its not that kind of behavior like host migration exploit that allowed *some* essentially to do almost nothing to get into the 10% on the clan score and was an actual exploit - which is also wasnt punished in any way and allowed clans to get access to arguable exclusive rewar as well.

I also dont think that its so easily achieved as well by anyone who just jumps into mission either. In short, DE is like always being DE. Instead of solving real problems like enemy scaling, host migrations and such, lets remove "exploits" after hours of finding them out. And here " " are actually needed.

 

And if anyone is banning people or preventing them to participate in the event for using a freaking teleport is just. Lmao. For using an actual IN GAME legit mechanic/ability in a way that developers never thought of because theyre not players and dont play their game. Makes me glad I no longer care about clan scores or any other scores in this game, or rewards. Next thing you'll now they will start banning you for using fatal teleport on dysruptors or bosses to farm them. 

Except for the fact it doesn't actually work anywhere else, so if they had tried this on other maps prior to this event, the mob would of just teleported back up. Making people realize that that is the intended function. So abusing the fact these maps were missing something they should have, is an exploit.

I repeat, enemies ported over pits with switch teleport, teleport back onto the ground. That is the intended behavior.

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Posted (edited)

Yeah well guess what, nobody cares.

Im pretty sure 99% of people who tried that just NEVER tried to do that anywhere else either because there simply was no reason for it. Other than for giggles.

I also have no effing clue why suddenly being launched off the map by ground slam or heavy landing or some weapons (if they still do that) is a thing and switch teleport *suddenly* defies the simple physics laws or rather ai defies physics laws.

And regardless, you think it makes it better but it actually makes it worse if sw didnt use to be able to teleport people off the cliff because it means those ---- developers fckd up again and didnt test their own game again and blamed it on players again.

If you fckd up, patch your fck up and move on. Now youre just being petty, again. As your "leaderboards". They are a joke. Youre not a game like Destiny, stop pretending to be one. No one cares about your trophies in this game.

Edited by -Temp0-
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2 minutes ago, -Temp0- said:

Yeah well guess what, nobody cares.

Im pretty sure 99% of people who tried that just NEVER tried to do that anywhere else either because there simply was no reason for it. Other than for giggles.

I also have no effing clue why suddenly being launched off the map by ground slam or heavy landing or some weapons (if they still do that) is a thing and switch teleport *suddenly* defies the simple physics laws or rather ai defies physics laws.

And regardless, you think it makes it better but it actually makes it worse if sw didnt use to be able to teleport people off the cliff because it means those ---- developers fckd up again and didnt test their own game again and blamed it on players again.

If you fckd up, patch your fck up and move on. Now youre just being petty, again. As your "leaderboards". They are a joke. Youre not a game like Destiny, stop pretending to be one. No one cares about your trophies in this game.

Problem is that ignorance has never been much of an excuse. Software Devs make mistakes, it happens. They don't always catch bugs, even with the best QA teams. But you know what? That has NEVER been an excuse to exploit them. Sorry, not sorry.

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