Operation: Hostile Mergers Leaderboard Information

[Grimm]

On 2019-05-30 at 4:19 PM, -CG-ImMrBloo said:

My head hurts after reading that 

agree such dumb much wtf. 

[-Temp0-]

Цитата

Problem is that ignorance has never been much of an excuse.

At this point I almost wish that things like fatal teleport would also become "not an excuse" then maybe once youre banned for idiocy liek that then it will finally get into your head.

So done with this "community", this is prolly the most stupid st Ive read so far here. Calling launching someone off the map using an actual ability within the game with NO glitches or anything like that or even a setup an "exploit"... I cant, halp, this idiocy hit a new low today.

[Grimm]

6 hours ago, -Temp0- said:

If you fckd up, patch your fck up and move on. Now youre just being petty, again. As your "leaderboards". They are a joke. Youre not a game like Destiny, stop pretending to be one. No one cares about your trophies in this game.

clearly you have never interacted with a competitive clan mate. if you tracked the leaderboard before and after the patch you would have seen that the clan with the largest overwall score didnt drop, but the clan with the highest placed individuals did, because people care about the leaderboards, you may not but dont be oblivious to the fact millions of points worth or players do. any score above 5k is someone who wants to go beyond and be better then just achieving, they are at they beginning of wanting excellence. 

Edit: your also stuck on ground slams knocking people off the map, demos are not knock able by ground slams etc. and even then when someone falls of the map normally it just gets re-instanced in the world not insta death

[IspanoLFW]

2 hours ago, Grimm said:

clearly you have never interacted with a competitive clan mate. if you tracked the leaderboard before and after the patch you would have seen that the clan with the largest overwall score didnt drop, but the clan with the highest placed individuals did, because people care about the leaderboards, you may not but dont be oblivious to the fact millions of points worth or players do. any score above 5k is someone who wants to go beyond and be better then just achieving, they are at they beginning of wanting excellence. 

Edit: your also stuck on ground slams knocking people off the map, demos are not knock able by ground slams etc. and even then when someone falls of the map normally it just gets re-instanced in the world not insta death

Actually... If you ragdoll something off into a pit, such as using a ground slam, it BREAKS intended mechanics. Switch teleport an enemy off and they come back up, but if the enemy is in a ragdoll state, it bypasses this. This is likely not intended either, since ragdolling breaks other things too. Doesn't matter much in the end, since you're right about Demos not being able to be ragdolled in the first place.

[--RV--Dopekoke]

Heard the the 100k people stayed during the hotfix, please look into it DE.  Thank you.

[Bathynomus]

On 2019-05-30 at 12:52 PM, ttylerrocks4u said:

To anyone that doesnt understand a game exploit and how is against many TOU's I will cite many examples. Exploiter Orb when nova or Octavia could one shot all vents. If you think about it You should understand that wasnt the intention. The intention obviously was to destroy each vent one by one. To try and go around this intention may seem like you being smart but you know better its not what is intended. Loki teleporting demolysts out of bounds there for getting points and bypassing the intention....Which was with this endless mission is to stop and kill them before they can reach the node. WIth the intent of health and shields increasing turning it into a end game damage sink. The intention how long can you survive before the demolysts are too much. Loki defeated this intention. Thus it being a exploit and against the TOU. There are countless other situations not in this game but others that should be clear as day if you are following what is called the Game Flow. Deviating from a game flow probably more likely then not is probably a exploit.

"you should understand" is not a valid reason to ban someone. Stuff like that should not happen, and devs should test things before pushing it to the public, not ban people when they find something like that.

[IspanoLFW]

10 minutes ago, Bathynomus said:

"you should understand" is not a valid reason to ban someone. Stuff like that should not happen, and devs should test things before pushing it to the public, not ban people when they find something like that.

Actually, it's plenty of a reason. Sure, bugs should not happen, but they do. No software developer is perfect. It's fine to want to try and find these things, maybe it's just fun for some. No problems so far. The problem is that you KNOW it's not intended. Ignorance is not an excuse. If the enemy that keeps getting tankier and tankier, all of a sudden gets one shot every time, that's an instant red flag. You KNOW it's not intended, saying otherwise is just straight BS. And continuing to use that to your advantage, well you reap what you sow.

And all this is especially important in anything competitive. And lets not forget, it's only a temp suspension unless you continue to exploit and so on.

[Incongruous]

I love that everyone who's calling DE's actions as 'unfair' decided to ignore every comment calling them out on their childish behaviour ( Hawker summed it up perfectly ) and instead focused on their one single point of defense being 'it's in the game therefore I can use it and should not get punished because it's all DE's fault'.

Face it some of you used an exploit that de-spawns mobs and/or negative damage bug and got punished for using them to gain your scores. If being a competitive clan/player means that you have to find more elaborate ways to exploit the system than the others then the competitive side of Warframe is a joke in my eyes. Learn to play fair, stop throwing temper tantrums and finally realize that the fact that your score got wiped, you're suspended or got banned is your own fault, not DE's.

[zacRupnow]

On 2019-05-29 at 2:10 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

- Cases of extreme abuse have resulted in temporary suspensions until the Operation is over on June 3rd. Any suspended accounts now have a score of 0 for their clan.

- If an exploiting account is a repeat offender of exploits or suspicious behaviour, permanent game ban.

 

Unintended functions of ingame mechanics is the definition of exploit in gaming, it is a part of the game, using it is not hacking or cheating. It's wrong to punish someone for making use of the game's mechanics, if a function is unintended than it is the responsibility of the developers to fix or remove in an update. "Abusing" an exploit is just a form of min/max gameplay, something common in every mmo and looter. It is immoral and irresponsible of DE to take punitive action against a customer for using the product as it is.

[Hawner]

hace 3 minutos, zacRupnow dijo:

 

Unintended functions of ingame mechanics is the definition of exploit in gaming, it is a part of the game, using it is not hacking or cheating. It's wrong to punish someone for making use of the game's mechanics, if a function is unintended than it is the responsibility of the developers to fix or remove in an update. "Abusing" an exploit is just a form of min/max gameplay, something common in every mmo and looter. It is immoral and irresponsible of DE to take punitive action against a customer for using the product as it is.

Wrong. It is indeed the responsibility of the developers to repair the bugs and problems in a hotfix, but it is yours to NOT use the bugs to your benefit. If you found a peep-hole in a wall to see inside the girls bathroom, would you look through it despite knowing it is wrong and you can get punished because of it or would you control yourself and report it so it gets fixed?

Just because you can do something doesn't make it right. If it's not intended, just don't frigging do it! Either that or accept the consequences if you get caught.

[-GAx-]

How goddamned hard is it for people to notice how only repeat offenders are banned, and people were only suspended, or to make it easier to understand, a temporary ban.

Also, replying to multiple topics:

• Operations are definitely not to search for bugs and exploits, they're to provide new content to the very hungry playerbase that is the Warframe community. You find a bug? You tell DE and leave it alone. Abusing it to "shine a light on the issue" is a completely wrong logic, in fact you've just diverted DE from whatever other bug fixes they would be doing.
• In regards to the Loki bug, its not an issue with Switch Teleport. It was the issue with the tileset (I guess you could blame DE for this?). In any other pit, enemies would be teleported back onto the field, whereas players abused the fact that some areas of Jupiter didn't have this feature. Switch Teleport is fine. it's usage by the exploiters are not.
• The Riven bug essentially made it where Demolysts would take negative damage, which translates to the game's coding as infinite value. Blame DE again?

 

As for the innocents who got caught up in the banning, tough luck. Not many would notice that their teammates were exploiting amidst the clutter of your average Warframe mission. At least you've gotten your Vandals?

And to the one guy that said it was the Demolysts and their dmg resistances being unfair, jeez idk, CC exists?

Edit:

Quote

The problem is that for the one that want to score, of course they won't stop.

...and how is that in anyway DE's fault anymore? Drug addicts are (obviously) addicted to drugs and will keep taking and trading them.They know its illegal, they still do it.

 

Edit 2:

I'd really like to see you people make your own game, the base version a complete mess, expand it over 6 years, constantly release brand-new content to please a community, all while pleasing all 360 sides of them, keeping the game in a state you feel is acceptable, and over all, support your own company.

Step in their shoes, really. Jupiter is a complete new tileset (albeit some so-called copy pasting that isn't proven yet). A big one at that. Bugs happen merely in rooms like our Orbiters, is it really surprising to find some on Jupiter?

FIxing these issues is of course, DE's duty. However, you've signed up to this rollercoaster ride by making that Warframe account and ticking the ToS box. You enjoy service provided by DE, under every rule and decision DE make. You ruin the game for others, there is complete reason to rid you. The game won't die by losing a few who try too hard (or not try at all?).

As consumers, we ourselves have our duties. To quite literally, obey rules and regulations, terms and conditions, Terms of Service. DE is judge, jury, executioner so long you play this game. God knows one day farmers will poison crops, one day God brings a meteor on our heresy.

4 hours ago, zacRupnow said:

It is immoral and irresponsible of DE to take punitive action against a customer for using the product as it is.

•  

4 hours ago, Hawner said:

Just because you can do something doesn't make it right. If it's not intended, just don't frigging do it!

[IceColdHawk]

Imagine getting, say, a 150k score due to the (inevitable i might add) 10 hp demolyst thing which is now fixed. Is it stupid to have a competition when the enemy suddenly has no hp anymore? Yes. Can we fault the players for that one? No...this is unlike the -cd riven exploit which could only be used knowingly.

But yeah, imagine you get your 150k score wiped for inevitable thing and your previous score was just a pub run going to, let's say 10k. Now you're stuck at 10k on your profile and for your clan. But the server still has 150k in mind SO, in order to increase your 10k score, you gotta have to beat your "illicit" 150k score.

Have fun.

Punishing abusers and keeping a fair leaderboard are 2 things. But preventing people from SCORING due to a glitched script is another.

[Voltage]

On 2019-05-31 at 4:33 AM, IspanoLFW said:

By continuing the match and taking advantage of it. If you saw the issue, decided to stop the mission at that point and report it, that would be different. Abusing it means you see it, realize that it's not intended, but keep going.

If you extracted or aborted at the wave of 10 hp, you would have been score wiped by the script. The only way you could have avoided this is by force closing the game. Would you like to spend 2 hours getting to that wave and then just throwing it away because "for some reason it was super easy"?

-Critical Damage made sense.

Loki was a stretch because of it's mechanics, but I can live.

A scaling bug? I mean, DE fixed this bug with inventory Credits, and they should know events have some players pushing 10+ hours, so why would they not check what happens when 32-bit integer limits are reached? It was unavoidable and just shows sloppy handling. This event should be rerun given it hasn't been the same for more than 24 hours (constant mechanical changes), and constant board wiping as rules on acceptable tactics were made up as we went along. 

Operation: The Index had the right idea. Implement a Tactical Alert. Observe the specific players who you know push themselves. Make a properly tested, polished Operation. Unfortunately The Index was never released as an Operation, but that design choice was good and can be used again to prevent sloppy testing and player time investments being wasted.

[IspanoLFW]

15 minutes ago, Voltage said:

If you extracted or aborted at the wave of 10 hp, you would have been score wiped by the script. The only way you could have avoided this is by force closing the game. Would you like to spend 2 hours getting to that wave and then just throwing it away because "for some reason it was super easy"?

-Critical Damage made sense.

Loki was a stretch because of it's mechanics, but I can live.

A scaling bug? I mean, DE fixed this bug with inventory Credits, and they should know events have some players pushing 10+ hours, so why would they not check what happens when 32-bit integer limits are reached? It was unavoidable and just shows sloppy handling. This event should be rerun given it hasn't been the same for more than 24 hours (constant mechanical changes), and constant board wiping as rules on acceptable tactics were made up as we went along. 

Operation: The Index had the right idea. Implement a Tactical Alert. Observe the specific players who you know push themselves. Make a properly tested, polished Operation. Unfortunately The Index was never released as an Operation, but that design choice was good and can be used again to prevent sloppy testing and player time investments being wasted.

So you have access to said script? I'm sure plenty others here would love to see it if you do.

[IceColdHawk]

2 minutes ago, IspanoLFW said:

So you have access to said script? I'm sure plenty others here would love to see it if you do.

What does it have to do with anything he said? You don't need access to any script to see what's actually happening to people in the game. It was explained to be illicit to fight 10 hp demolysts and thus everyone that passed a certain round would encounter them no matter what and get their scores removed.

[IspanoLFW]

1 minute ago, IceColdHawk said:

What does it have to do with anything he said? You don't need access to any script to see what's actually happening to people in the game. It was explained to be illicit to fight 10 hp demolysts and thus everyone that passed a certain round would encounter them no matter what and get their scores removed.

It has everything to do with it. Without knowing exactly what the script looks for, he could be completely wrong. If it looked for people that encountered the bug, but then kept going, hey, he's wrong. But we don't know, do you?

Claiming something as true and believing something as true, are not the same.

[Voltage]

12 minutes ago, IspanoLFW said:

So you have access to said script? I'm sure plenty others here would love to see it if you do.

I do:

if OperationMissionRound>=41 ; RemovePlayerScore

It's a simple spell but quite unbreakable.

[IspanoLFW]

Just now, Voltage said:

I do:

if OperationMissionRound=41 ; RemovePlayerScore

It's a simple spell but quite unbreakable.

So you don't, got it.

[---Dradon---]

il y a 2 minutes, IspanoLFW a dit :

So you don't, got it.

His whole point is that there was score with 30k point that got removed because of that bug (which is a low amount) just because of the fact they were struggling and somehow got to round 41. The script DE used tough is probably just a simple for loop that look like this.

Révélation

foreach(Match m in hostileMergerDatabase)
{
  if(m.round >= 41) {
    foreach(Player p in m.players)
    {
      p.score = p.searchForPreviousHighestScoreBasedOnRound(41); //Search for previous highest score that is under round 41
    }
  }
}

 

[IspanoLFW]

2 minutes ago, ---Dradon--- said:

His whole point is that there was score with 30k point that got removed because of that bug (which is a low amount) just because of the fact they were struggling and somehow got to round 41. The script DE used tough is probably just a simple for loop that look like this.

  Hide contents

foreach(Match m in hostileMergerDatabase)
{
  if(m.round >= 41) {
    foreach(Player p in m.players)
    {
      p.score = p.searchForPreviousHighestScoreBasedOnRound(41); //Search for previous highest score that is under round 41
    }
  }
}

 

And my point is that you don't actually know. And because you can't know, I know it sucks, but making claims without proof is not helping.

[---Dradon---]

à l’instant, IspanoLFW a dit :

And my point is that you don't actually know. And because you can't know, I know it sucks, but making claims without proof is not helping.

I never said I know it, but I'm just telling that's probably how they did it. (Since DE doing stuff cleanly is near impossible, loki script for example only wiped score above a certain treshold and didn't care under that, -CD riven exact same thing). Honestly, you would understand how it could actually work if you were a programmer. Now stop arguing on the script, it's useless.

[Voltage]

6 minutes ago, IspanoLFW said:

And my point is that you don't actually know. And because you can't know, I know it sucks, but making claims without proof is not helping.

The highest score after the wipe was 46k. I got 46k on wave 40 of the event while doing my push. Coincidence? Not really. It's safe to assume no score over wave 41 was saved at all after that patch. And if there was one saved, I would call that inconsistent. Unfortunately inconsistency is consistently shown in this game.

[IceColdHawk]

Who cares about whether the script blocked out people ABOVE 41 or starting AT 41? You guys should start addressing the real elephant in the room that is preventing people from scoring.

[IspanoLFW]

6 minutes ago, ---Dradon--- said:

I never said I know it, but I'm just telling that's probably how they did it. (Since DE doing stuff cleanly is near impossible, loki script for example only wiped score above a certain treshold and didn't care under that, -CD riven exact same thing). Honestly, you would understand how it could actually work if you were a programmer. Now stop arguing on the script, it's useless.

I know how it could actually work. My point is that you don't actually "know." It's all an assumption. It might be an educated guess, but it's still that, a guess.

[-GAx-]

All these people defending how DE screwed up the highscores of endurance runners on Hostile Mergers. 

I respect the hustle, and I genuinely feel bad for everyone affected. However there really is not much of a point to justify, argue and whatever on this issue. 

The core game is being a looter shooter. 4k score is average 15 minutes of the Endurance, enjoy both Vandals. Its completely understandable if DE is willing to cut corners on the PvP aspect of a primarily PvE game, because business. Its crappy, but its society. 

Everyone got their loot, accounts will be returned in 2-3 days, anyone 2035'd would be their own fault, the game's perfectly fine. 

If you really want a game competitive at its core, CSGO is currently F2P.