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[DE]Rebecca

Operation: Hostile Mergers Leaderboard Information

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Posted (edited)

All these people defending how DE screwed up the highscores of endurance runners on Hostile Mergers. 

I respect the hustle, and I genuinely feel bad for everyone affected. However there really is not much of a point to justify, argue and whatever on this issue. 

The core game is being a looter shooter. 4k score is average 15 minutes of the Endurance, enjoy both Vandals. Its completely understandable if DE is willing to cut corners on the PvP aspect of a primarily PvE game, because business. Its crappy, but its society. 

Everyone got their loot, accounts will be returned in 2-3 days, anyone 2035'd would be their own fault, the game's perfectly fine. 

If you really want a game competitive at its core, CSGO is currently F2P. 

Edited by -GAx-
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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Hawner said:

It is indeed the responsibility of the developers to repair the bugs and problems in a hotfix, but it is yours to NOT use the bugs to your benefit. If you found a peep-hole in a wall to see inside the girls bathroom

Not remotely the same, one is a violation of another person, the other is using a product as it comes. If DE unintentionally puts out 4 catalyst alerts instead of one it is not the players responsibility to refrain from playing more than one, and it is not ok for DE to punish players for playing the other alerts.

Edited by zacRupnow
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2 hours ago, zacRupnow said:

Not remotely the same, one is a violation of another person, the other is using a product as it comes. If DE unintentionally puts out 4 catalyst alerts instead of one it is not the players responsibility to refrain from playing more than one, and it is not ok for DE to punish players for playing the other alerts.

DE did plenty of goofs like the one you described. You're trying to compare system hiccup to deliberately exploiting the system to gain fake internet points. You have to know what you're doing for the exploit to work. Having a specific loadout and using mechanics that are obviously not intended to exist is called exploiting. Everyone who uses exploits in any online game is in violation of their respective TOS and should be punished accordingly. You don't have any right to use exploits just because they exist. They will always exist no matter how thorough the devs and QA testers are. It does not mean that you are legitimate to use them. 

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20 hours ago, Voltage said:

The highest score after the wipe was 46k. I got 46k on wave 40 of the event while doing my push. Coincidence? Not really. It's safe to assume no score over wave 41 was saved at all after that patch. And if there was one saved, I would call that inconsistent. Unfortunately inconsistency is consistently shown in this game.

I believe you got a 46k score it certainly is possible if you have big pellet shotgun monsters etc... We've had a lot of peeps wiped from scores even at 24k (scores simply not registering). A ghost clan with digital extremes officials came out of nowhere and took first, the clan in 1st for ghost had spents over 24+ hrs running people to get their score only to be "magically outplayed".

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Posted (edited)
hace 20 horas, zacRupnow dijo:

Not remotely the same, one is a violation of another person, the other is using a product as it comes. If DE unintentionally puts out 4 catalyst alerts instead of one it is not the players responsibility to refrain from playing more than one, and it is not ok for DE to punish players for playing the other alerts.

Again, wrong, and on two accounts:

First, it is the same, since you are presented with a failure in a structure (one is a real structure while the other is virtual) you can take profit off but you SHOULD report so it gets fixed because it shouldn't be there.

Second: while the scenario you describe is a mistake that benefits EVERYONE in an innocent way and has no actual repercussions in the game, the other only benefits those who know about the exploit, so only those with the high scores obtained with that exploit will get the rewards or the "fame". So, as you see, EVEN if it weren't an exploit but something legal, it would still be UNFAIR. Luckily, it is indeed something that deserves being punished for.

If there is a wall and enemies are NOT supposed to go through them, don't push enemies through those walls to get the advantage, no matter if you CAN or how many methods there are to do so. If you get caught, you won't have the right to whine about it. Simple and clear.

Edited by Hawner

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On 2019-05-29 at 10:10 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

- Cases of extreme abuse have resulted in temporary suspensions until the Operation is over on June 3rd. Any suspended accounts now have a score of 0 for their clan.
- Illicit scores in general have been removed where applicable.

So explain me why the people that was top score before bans/removal of points: 5byjjbo.png

Are back setting up top scores gain? 

 

Did you guys just pretend to ban people?

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Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, Caramello said:

So explain me why the people that was top score before bans/removal of points: 

<snip>

Are back setting up top scores gain?

<snip>

Did you guys just pretend to ban people?

This comment just looks like it is out for blood and quite rude towards both the players in question and DE. I don't see the point for the naming and shaming (against the rules by the way, ironically). If you have an issue with the strategy used, you should make a bug report here: https://forums.warframe.com/forum/27-mission/.

I watched the stream occasionally. It is a 16 hour long mission with a pretty genius setup that isn't cheating. Are you going to blame the players doing a 16 hour long endurance mission for using an underused Warframe because Digital Extremes gave it 35% hp scaling damage? If DE did not learn from the effectiveness of Corpus Nuke Mag or Limbo Cataclysm Nuke from scaling damage, they can only blame themselves for the effectiveness of Smite on an unarmored target without shields.

Edited by Voltage
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Voltage said:

This comment just looks like it is out for blood and quite rude towards both the players in question and DE. I don't see the point for the naming and shaming (against the rules by the way, ironically). If you have an issue with the strategy used, you should make a bug report here: https://forums.warframe.com/forum/27-mission/.

I watched the stream occasionally. It is a 16 hour long mission with a pretty genius setup that isn't cheating. Are you going to blame the players doing a 16 hour long endurance mission for using an underused Warframe because Digital Extremes gave it 35% hp scaling damage? If DE did not learn from the effectiveness of Corpus Nuke Mag or Limbo Cataclysm Nuke from scaling damage, they can only blame themselves for the effectiveness of Smite on an unarmored target without shields.

I have no problem with the strat used this time (did i ever mention anything about the strat used? Dont think so), it seems legit, the problem comes when they get to keep participating in the event, when they shouldn't, they should be banned until tomorrow, thats their punishment for not playing fair, to not play it at all, thats what was stipulated by DE in this topic in the 1st place.

GdyvDEa.png

People that got their score removed fall into the category of "extreme abuse".

People that abused the event should be "temporarily suspended until the Operation is over on June 3rd"

They should be barred from participating in the event, end of story, and they are not, thus, DE didnt do what they said they would do.

I despise cheaters in gaming, rude is not pointing out their cheating and demanding their punishment to actually be applied, rude was their cheating in the 1st place, it was rude to everyone playing fair.

Edited by Caramello
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On 2019-06-01 at 5:41 PM, IspanoLFW said:

Actually, it's plenty of a reason. Sure, bugs should not happen, but they do. No software developer is perfect. It's fine to want to try and find these things, maybe it's just fun for some. No problems so far. The problem is that you KNOW it's not intended. Ignorance is not an excuse. If the enemy that keeps getting tankier and tankier, all of a sudden gets one shot every time, that's an instant red flag. You KNOW it's not intended, saying otherwise is just straight BS. And continuing to use that to your advantage, well you reap what you sow.

And all this is especially important in anything competitive. And lets not forget, it's only a temp suspension unless you continue to exploit and so on.

i agree, exploiting is directly mentioned in the terms of services as earning you punishment for doing such things. being able to exploit an endless mission to go longer then is possible without exploiting allows you to yield more rewards then you should, its the same reason Q members got banned for Egate exploiting with non line of sight mag with greedy pull allowing them to make thousands of each mod that could drop there.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Voltage said:

This comment just looks like it is out for blood and quite rude towards both the players in question and DE. I don't see the point for the naming and shaming (against the rules by the way, ironically). If you have an issue with the strategy used, you should make a bug report here: https://forums.warframe.com/forum/27-mission/.

I watched the stream occasionally. It is a 16 hour long mission with a pretty genius setup that isn't cheating. Are you going to blame the players doing a 16 hour long endurance mission for using an underused Warframe because Digital Extremes gave it 35% hp scaling damage? If DE did not learn from the effectiveness of Corpus Nuke Mag or Limbo Cataclysm Nuke from scaling damage, they can only blame themselves for the effectiveness of Smite on an unarmored target without shields.

An Afk player can also claim to be in a mission for 20 minutes, that doesn't stop them from getting banned if it's the 2nd time the infraction occurs. Time isn't a free pass.

I also note smite isn't the only ability with some sort of scaling (%), yet, it's the only one (correct me if i'm wrong) that will not become mitigated, this looks like an oversight, it has nothing with being clever, players simply used several abilities that scale and they found 1 that kept working.

DE has tried to make enemies resist abilities, some abilities they flat out ignore and some abilities are simply dispelled from time to time, so they work but only a temporary basis.

Don't you find odd smite working? DE likely assumed the ability was like fireball or shock, they likely forgot it had a % factor in it aswell.

Edited by KIREEK
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Posted (edited)

I think this Operation was fine. If we take the strugle with the wipes of the leaderboards away, that was a realy amazing and challenging game experience. The days of experimenting and enduring gaming are the best in this game for me. All these players on the top ranks have earned this bit of honor for their passion and investments. My very regards to the awesome players who shared their experiences with the community. And all thanks and love to DE.

Edited by -TSA-MightyFi
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On 2019-05-29 at 5:10 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Cases of extreme abuse have resulted in temporary suspensions until the Operation is over on June 3rd. Any suspended accounts now have a score of 0 for their clan.
- Illicit scores in general have been removed where applicable.
- If an exploiting account is a repeat offender of exploits or suspicious behaviour, permanent game ban

Could there be some clarification regarding the last endurance run situation? 

At least imo, vigorous swap is a mod intended to buff weapon damage on swap, which can be quite useful with melee 3.0 stage one easy swap, so having it buff warframe powers seems to be an unintended behavior which was exploited to hell and back in the top score endurance run, but some people defend that interaction because of reasons (probably biased for being their clanmates).

Also, the way it was done near the end of the event makes it look like they waited to see what was wiped and fixed and what wasn't before that run, most likely knowing about it (they are most likely used to enduranve runs and might know about other interactions that will be saved for any upcoming event) but never using it until the event was about to end for the sole purpose of having their score remain just because DE would have no time to hotfix this time. 

The forum post linking the video seemed more like a celebration of being able to beat not only the playerbase with this run, but also of beating DE for managing such a high score abusing an unintended interaction with not enough time for another fix. 

With that out of the way, it would be neat if you, the staff members, refrained from making future events end during weekends or mondays and/or closed leaderboards a couple of days before archiving scores in order to review the highest scores, judge if these are legit, and save the scores if these do or remove them if these don't and then archive a leaderboard free of exploited scores.

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Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

At least imo, vigorous swap is a mod intended to buff weapon damage on swap, which can be quite useful with melee 3.0 stage one easy swap, so having it buff warframe powers seems to be an unintended behavior which was exploited to hell and back in the top score endurance run

 

So... I just looked up the wiki page of the Vigorous Swap mod ( https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Vigorous_Swap )and couldnt find ANY clue that its damage buff is supposed to be only effecting weapon damage. And the mod itself is a warframe mod that clearly says +165% damage! I still fail to see the "unintended behavior" some people here are wetting their knickers about . To me it feels like people are just butthurt for not thinking of this and testing it out themselves.

imho the only real bs that was in this event was the ability to kill with negative crit damage rivens and thats it. The Loki switch teleport strategy at least was hard to pull off consistantly and required skill and good team coordination if you wanted to run all 4 keys at the same time. 

Also its sad to see people wanting players to be banned or punished for playing the game. People have put large amounts of time and money into their warframe accounts and communities and still keep doing so! This way supporting DE and the wf community.

Edited by -TSA-SquanchingBuddha
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, ----Legacy---- said:

At least imo, vigorous swap is a mod intended to buff weapon damage on swap

fk1ZbLL.png

 

Edit: Also DE are aware of the differences

woAQpX5.png

Edit edit: For those wondering how Smite works
Say the enemy has 100 hp
Oberon will cast orbs dealing 35% enemy HP dmg, Oberon has 3 orbs, 35% of their HP is split into 3
that is 35/3 = 11.66 damage per orb.
Boosted by volt's damage that's 11.66 puncture +( (11.66 x 3.29)=38.36 electric) = 50 dmg per orb
so in one cast you could just one shot the enemy IF all orbs hit(but through personal testing, not all will hit), and this isn't even with vig swap dmg.

Also do note that Smite is a one handed ability, allowing you to shoot/holster weapons while casting it.

Edited by -Bliekord-
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On 2019-06-03 at 5:52 AM, Caramello said:

I have no problem with the strat used this time (did i ever mention anything about the strat used? Dont think so), it seems legit, the problem comes when they get to keep participating in the event, when they shouldn't, they should be banned until tomorrow, thats their punishment for not playing fair, to not play it at all, thats what was stipulated by DE in this topic in the 1st place.

GdyvDEa.png

People that got their score removed fall into the category of "extreme abuse".

People that abused the event should be "temporarily suspended until the Operation is over on June 3rd"

They should be barred from participating in the event, end of story, and they are not, thus, DE didnt do what they said they would do.

I despise cheaters in gaming, rude is not pointing out their cheating and demanding their punishment to actually be applied, rude was their cheating in the 1st place, it was rude to everyone playing fair.

DE wasn't playing fair either. I was doing a legit run very early on up to 33k without -cd rivens, oberons, magical round 41 10 hp demolysts, no lokis. Nothing. Had to extract because lacking dmg and survivability. What happens? I read patch notes and see exploits got removed and scores wiped and i was like "Hey, nice. Finally a fair competition!" but then i saw my score got wiped too and i was like "Excuse me? What was THAT for?".

And on top of that, due to some oversight during the script (probably), you'd have to beat your old wiped score in order to increase your actual score. Which is just not fair either.

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-06-02 at 10:25 PM, Voltage said:

This comment just looks like it is out for blood and quite rude towards both the players in question and DE. I don't see the point for the naming and shaming (against the rules by the way, ironically). If you have an issue with the strategy used, you should make a bug report here: https://forums.warframe.com/forum/27-mission/.

I watched the stream occasionally. It is a 16 hour long mission with a pretty genius setup that isn't cheating. Are you going to blame the players doing a 16 hour long endurance mission for using an underused Warframe because Digital Extremes gave it 35% hp scaling damage? If DE did not learn from the effectiveness of Corpus Nuke Mag or Limbo Cataclysm Nuke from scaling damage, they can only blame themselves for the effectiveness of Smite on an unarmored target without shields.

 

On 2019-06-02 at 11:52 PM, Caramello said:

I have no problem with the strat used this time (did i ever mention anything about the strat used? Dont think so), it seems legit, the problem comes when they get to keep participating in the event, when they shouldn't, they should be banned until tomorrow, thats their punishment for not playing fair, to not play it at all, thats what was stipulated by DE in this topic in the 1st place.

GdyvDEa.png

People that got their score removed fall into the category of "extreme abuse".

People that abused the event should be "temporarily suspended until the Operation is over on June 3rd"

They should be barred from participating in the event, end of story, and they are not, thus, DE didnt do what they said they would do.

I despise cheaters in gaming, rude is not pointing out their cheating and demanding their punishment to actually be applied, rude was their cheating in the 1st place, it was rude to everyone playing fair.

Heres both sides here, arguably both of them are wrong.

Because many of the tactics used in the initial runs weren't exploits and many players who got legitimate scores got set to zero which is wrong.

However the fact of the matter is that DE instated bans, and those bans should have been enforced, it shouldn't matter if they exceeded their previous exploited score the fact of the matter is that DE deemed those people including the ones in my clan as cheaters and therfore should pucker up and stick to what they deemed as cheating.

 

Maybe that way we can finally open discussion on how garbage the power dynamic and outdated the gameplay and enemy interaction of this game is in it's current state. Because once again this event has proven that enemy encounters are not dynamic and interesting enough, barely require any team work, and have yet to reach the level that the RAIDs (albeit raids weren't the best) had. To the point where you have squads demanding riven lobbies and you have the "upper tier warframe players" whos first instinct is to cheese through events instead of doing them as DE said "legitimately".
 

Basically you're all wrong

Edited by Eureka.seveN
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1 hour ago, -Bliekord- said:

fk1ZbLL.png

 

Edit: Also DE are aware of the differences

woAQpX5.png

 

2 hours ago, -TSA-SquanchingBuddha said:

So... I just looked up the wiki page of the Vigorous Swap mod ( https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Vigorous_Swap )and couldnt find ANY clue that its damage buff is supposed to be only effecting weapon damage. And the mod itself is a warframe mod that clearly says +165% damage! I still fail to see the "unintended behavior" some people here are wetting their knickers about . To me it feels like people are just butthurt for not thinking of this and testing it out themselves.

Vigorous swap reads "on equip" and i'm sure our powers aren't "equipped", just casted since these are always there available as long as there is energy.

Also, they fixed "an inaccurate description" for Ambush, so Vigorous Swap remaining unchanged could have been just an oversight, hence still an exploit, reason why some clarification "from DE" about it would be much appreciated

1 hour ago, -Bliekord- said:

Edit edit: For those wondering how Smite works
Say the enemy has 100 hp
Oberon will cast orbs dealing 35% enemy HP dmg, Oberon has 3 orbs, 35% of their HP is split into 3
that is 35/3 = 11.66 damage per orb.
Boosted by volt's damage that's 11.66 puncture +( (11.66 x 3.29)=38.36 electric) = 50 dmg per orb
so in one cast you could just one shot the enemy IF all orbs hit(but through personal testing, not all will hit), and this isn't even with vig swap dmg

That's the point, if you add vigorous swap (+165% damage) to that equation you get [50dmg/orb × (1+1.65) = 132.5] dmg/orb from an enemy with only 100hp, and since these is all based on an scaling ability, 100 happens to be a convenient number since it means you're actually dealing 132.5% of enemy HP with a single orb, enough to insta kill anything regardless of its level for the cheap base cost of 25 energy.

Kinda fun how you stopped before adding vigorous swap to the equation and conveniently omitted that the amount of orbs increases with power strenght, also increasing the chances of one-shotting whatever you're facing with a really spammable power.

3 hours ago, -TSA-SquanchingBuddha said:

Also its sad to see people wanting players to be banned or punished for playing the game. People have put large amounts of time and money into their warframe accounts and communities and still keep doing so! This way supporting DE and the wf community.

It's not about seeing them banned, i couldn't care less if they are not banned but it would be good to at least have an idea about stuff like the interactions they abused. It's about having fair competition when DE tries to encourage it and bot have every single event become "let's wait for the event to be about to close to make an endless run abusing [tactic] so DE can do nothing about it"

1 minute ago, Eureka.seveN said:

However the fact of the matter is that DE instated bans, and those bans should have been enforced, it shouldn't matter if they exceeded their previous exploited score the fact o

Also this, in the OP it reads that exploiters will be prevented from scoring in the event, yet the players in question went to the top, got their scores wiped twice and are still allowed to make it to the top with questionable strats a third time, making DE's statements regarding clean competition like a cheap joke.

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3 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

 

Vigorous swap reads "on equip" and i'm sure our powers aren't "equipped", just casted since these are always there available as long as there is energy.

Also, they fixed "an inaccurate description" for Ambush, so Vigorous Swap remaining unchanged could have been just an oversight, hence still an exploit, reason why some clarification "from DE" about it would be much appreciated

That's the point, if you add vigorous swap (+165% damage) to that equation you get [50dmg/orb × (1+1.65) = 132.5] dmg/orb from an enemy with only 100hp, and since these is all based on an scaling ability, 100 happens to be a convenient number since it means you're actually dealing 132.5% of enemy HP with a single orb, enough to insta kill anything regardless of its level for the cheap base cost of 25 energy.

Kinda fun how you stopped before adding vigorous swap to the equation and conveniently omitted that the amount of orbs increases with power strenght, also increasing the chances of one-shotting whatever you're facing with a really spammable power.

It's not about seeing them banned, i couldn't care less if they are not banned but it would be good to at least have an idea about stuff like the interactions they abused. It's about having fair competition when DE tries to encourage it and bot have every single event become "let's wait for the event to be about to close to make an endless run abusing [tactic] so DE can do nothing about it"

Also this, in the OP it reads that exploiters will be prevented from scoring in the event, yet the players in question went to the top, got their scores wiped twice and are still allowed to make it to the top with questionable strats a third time, making DE's statements regarding clean competition like a cheap joke.

For all the S#&amp;&#036; the gaming community gives to bungie, at least they have the balls to nerf overpowered gear that ruins the substance of the game. If i may add. Maybe DE should follow suit as they improve their gameplay

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Kinda fun how you stopped before adding vigorous swap to the equation and conveniently omitted that the amount of orbs increases with power strenght, also increasing the chances of one-shotting whatever you're facing with a really spammable power.

I do omit it being overpowered, but I'm not the one who implemented that into the game :satisfied:
Also Vigorous swap isn't an exploit, that's like saying "your creativity is an exploit". On top of that, vigorous swap has been used on more than Oberon since it's release, why didn't DE fix it then, there are many build videos mentioning it.

If DE gives the tools to do so, let it be that, and move on, disliking how they are making the game? move on.

It's just a game, and we are just trying to play the game.

IyXwuTT.png

 

Edit: Also I forgot something that a friend told me to mention
Vigorous swap translate to "On equip gives you 165% damage for 3 seconds "... isn't that what the video was showing? They are equipping and unequipping secondary and primary to gain damage. I do not understand why you claim it is an oversight, it is equipped onto our warframes, and gives damage (no specific damage, just damage!).

Edited by -Bliekord-
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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

That's the point, if you add vigorous swap (+165% damage) to that equation you get [50dmg/orb × (1+1.65) = 132.5] dmg/orb from an enemy with only 100hp, and since these is all based on an scaling ability, 100 happens to be a convenient number since it means you're actually dealing 132.5% of enemy HP with a single orb, enough to insta kill anything regardless of its level for the cheap base cost of 25 energy.

Not even with vigorous swap you can do a 100% damage on the demolysts. You're not including damage resistance/weaknesses in the equation. Those to each damage type (Impact, Radiation, and Electricity) after the buffs.

Also, there are several arcanes that have a trigger completely irrelevent from the buff such as arcane avenger. You take warframe damage and get a critical chance boost to all your weapons and abilities (read exalted weapons or abilities that can crit)

Edit: There are also mods such as Growing Power where you proc status with a weapon and not necessarily warframe ability and get power strength. Hell, the new Proton Snap mod gets triggered by wall latching, a warframe thing, but it buffs weapon damage

Edited by --Q--ClawX7
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20 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Kinda fun how you stopped before adding vigorous swap to the equation and conveniently omitted that the amount of orbs increases with power strenght, also increasing the chances of one-shotting whatever you're facing with a really spammable power.

Except the % conversion is directly proportional to the amount of orbs, which makes each orb fired weaker. I'd inform myself before stating something.

 

21 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Vigorous swap reads "on equip" and i'm sure our powers aren't "equipped", just casted since these are always there available as long as there is energy.

Arachne is on wall latch, Avenger applies a crit boost on damage, Charm is a rng kavat buff. New mods apply on certain parkour movements, so what's your point? It's not like Vigorous swap is the star here, it's certainly not the only one.

I'm not going to defend whether they kept it intended or as oversight, but this is a pretty moot point to leave.

28 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

It's about having fair competition when DE tries to encourage it and bot have every single event become "let's wait for the event to be about to close to make an endless run abusing [tactic] so DE can do nothing about it"

What defines a fair competition? What exactly tells you that this system is a exploit and not just knowledgeable players figuring out a new strat to make their runs more efficient? Nowhere in the mod it reads it applies only to weapons, and oversight or not DE did NOT specify it. Nowhere does it say you cannot enhance your allies "projectile ability" (I like to name them like this) with elemental augments. And "let's wait so DE can do nothing about it"? Have you thought of the fact that a normal person can't exactly do a 17 hours run in a regular day, hence waited until Sunday for it?

You are basically accusing others of abusing when it's a smart usage of abilities with extreme team work (in a cooperative game, who would've figured), assuming that x works y way and it can't work in any other way, when DE is not clear with their information.

And regarding participation bans, DE simply underestimated some of these players, and I think the lock they had set was fair enough (want to qualify again? Push yourself harder than you did before, but this time without exploits).

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Bickering aside, I'm actually baffled by the amount of Quasars in this topic. I can fully understand you guys trying to defend the run of your clan-mates but if you're part of clan of notorious exploiters you kinda loose a bit of your credibility in the eyes of other players even if the points you make are valid. People will get mad at the fact that your clan has not been banned from scoring after two wipes and numerous stories about your use of exploits in previous operations. There will always be some bad blood if your clan is widely known for using exploits.

1 hour ago, -Bliekord- said:

(...) If DE gives the tools to do so, let it be that, and move on, disliking how they are making the game? move on.

It's just a game, and we are just trying to play the game.

IyXwuTT.png

 

Unless you're acting like this guy, then you loose all your credibility.

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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, -Bliekord- said:

I do omit it being overpowered, but I'm not the one who implemented that into the game :satisfied:

Hence you have as much way to know if its interaction with powers is intended or not.

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Also Vigorous swap isn't an exploit, that's like saying "your creativity is an exploit". 

Oh, i'm sure the mod itself is not an exploit, otherwise it wouldn't even exist. However, things become blurry when the mod reads "on equip" yet can affect powers which don't require to be equipped to be used, which then becomes the core of the strategy used to reach the top. Tje thing is so dumb that if DE doesn't at least change this interaction, the same composition will most likely gonna be the meta of any event until they finally decide to put it a stop.

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On top of that, vigorous swap has been used on more than Oberon since it's release, why didn't DE fix it then, there are many build videos mentioning it.

I haven't seen many of that, but that's most likely because i rarely look for build videos and that kind of stuff. Could you share some examples?

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If DE gives the tools to do so, let it be that, and move on, disliking how they are making the game? move on.

We have far too many tools for DE to check all of the possible interactions, so plenty of unintended uses can (and will) pop up and remain in a grey area until DE makes a statement about them. 

Also, this is an open forum, and as such we all are entitled to our opinion it's finally up to DE to choose between taking the opinion of players as feedback or just dismiss it when making the game.

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It's just a game, and we are just trying to play the game.

IyXwuTT.png

Sure! But an even playing field, a ruleset and judges able to enforce them are required when the game becomes competitive. There is a difference between playing with friends just for the sake of playing and playing in a league/tournament/whatever that involves a more serious level of competition.

49 minutes ago, --Q--ClawX7 said:

Not even with vigorous swap you can do a 100% damage on the demolysts. You're not including damage resistance/weaknesses in the equation. Those to each damage type (Impact, Radiation, and Electricity) after the buffs.

As a non biased member of Q, could you point the actual math involving weaknesses and resistances? Last time i checked demolysts (at least the satyr and moa) are weak against both, radiation (+25%) and electricity (+50%) making the damage get even higher with the smite + shock tropper combo.

Edited by ----Legacy----

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5 hours ago, ----Legacy---- said:

At least imo, vigorous swap is a mod intended to buff weapon damage on swap, which can be quite useful with melee 3.0 stage one easy swap, so having it buff warframe powers seems to be an unintended behavior which was exploited to hell and back in the top score endurance run, but some people defend that interaction because of reasons (probably biased for being their clanmates).

Only DE can answer whether it's intended for certain warframe abilities to be buffed by weapon damage buffs or not. Oberon's smite, nova's antimatter drop, ash's shuriken, and a few other abilities as well all function like weapons for the purpose of the code and accepting weapon buffs. So they can receive buffs from stuff like vigorous swap, chroma's vex armor, arcane arachne, etc. I'm not an expert on these things, but maybe it has something to do with the abilities that manifest as actual physical projectiles in the game? 

Intended or not? Only DE can say. But even if that's NOT intended, the strat they used would still have worked by simply swapping Volt for a buff Rhino and dropping vigorous swap. It would take a few more casts of smite to kill the demo's, but it would have still worked fine.

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