Operation: Hostile Mergers Leaderboard Information

[KelvinM6]

2 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

To my knowledge the implication there is that nothing will undo the ban, whilst your average ban could be undone if you provide a good case as to why it should be undone. Not something I could actually see happening however.

Take the classic 2035 "ban", despite that effectively being a suspension, there's no guarantee that the game will exist or that your account will hold any value come 2035. For all intents this is a ban, however it's not a "perma-ban". The account will reactivate... eventually, but after such a significant amount of time that both it and the game may not even be relevant anymore.

There is certainly room however to say that the accounts have been banned from taking part in the event, and they certainly have, but there's a big difference between "banned from taking part during an event" and claiming people have had their "account banned". One refers to the users inability to access their account during this specified short period, the other is the users inability to access their account for a large period of time.

That's all I'm getting at, your wording made out that it was the latter. It is not, it it is a temporary suspension of the account with the intention of returning it within a reasonable amount of time.

Ahh thx for the explanation, I'll keep this in mind to express myself more clearly if it ever comes up again

[AvPCelticPredator]

1 minute ago, Aerinx said:

There are many ways cheaters justify cheating, and that is a topic that I find very interesting. Calling exploits a "clever way" and blaming devs saying it like that, while not something new and something I've seen many times I never saw expressed like that, thank you for that new perspective on a cheater's mind, I always find that interesting.

DEVS are made this thread to inform Tennos about exploits cuz they cannot "FIX" that piece of code, and Tennos must to pay for their mistakes. 🤗

[Aerinx]

1 minute ago, AvPCelticPredator said:

DEVS are made this thread to inform Tennos about exploits cuz they cannot "FIX" that piece of code, and Tennos must to pay for their mistakes. 🤗

Idk what you're smoking, but I want the same pls. Both exploits have been fixed already.

[Asdryu]

I see people tending to turn competitions into a toxic matter.

Competitions DO NOT bring the worst into people. Perhaps "the worst" of them only shows up in such a given occation.
Competitions, such as sport, e-sports and whatnot keep any interest involved alive. You can put the definition of competition even in market and that turns out either amazing or tragic depending on how it goes.

A game such as Warframe won't be an exception (there would be a slight problem if it was AND there was, ergo, people demanding for something like a leaderboard).

Now, I don't know how illicit switch teleport was, take it with a grain of salt to whoever is reading this and is "sided" with, but if the use of it was its simple concept of moving the target to point x then I don't really see a problem there (once again, I have no idea if this was glitched in order to be able to use it in such way). It was "Alad's" fault for not improving its amalgams to resist against it.
Would it have been considered illicit if I was able to soul-punch them? Should anyone be banned for teleporting the drone in Plains of Eidolon with either Nova or Loki?

I'm not trying to be the devil's advocate here. I genuinely wouldn't want to see anyone condemning things such as competitions and people who try different approaches.

Myself included tried many different things against the amalgams, to Hydroid's puddle form up to Banshee and even tried to use the Orvius and if some of those "forgotten" mechanics was able to outsmart Alad's twisted creations, damn right I would've used them. If I'm not able to hurt you I'm simply gonna use another tactic, wether it is to stop you or use something else to do it. In this case was gravity!

[Kyoresh]

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

If an exploiting account is a repeat offender of exploits or suspicious behaviour, permanent game ban.

I hate exploiters, but perma ban, for an exploit that harmed no one directly? thats pretty hard imo

[Fire2box]

Why couldn't it just be like Plague Star where you get points to make a trophy, then have to get more for more of said trophies. I personally don't think it's shocking that people thought out exploits when it seems like 50/50 chance for abilities affecting the demo's. But setting their scores down to zero is certainly fair IMHO.

 

[AvPCelticPredator]

1 minute ago, Aerinx said:

Idk what you're smoking, but I want the same pls. Both exploits have been fixed already. 

If they are "FIX" why this thread is still open?

For fun maybe!

[Modeaus]

• Frame that's been in the game since launch without a rebalance.
• Mechanic that is in use on every single map with a pit.
• Skill that has always worked this way. 
   

Totally an exploit. 

I guess that means that using my operator dash to knock mobs of maps is also cheating? Sonicor with blast is an exploit? Valkyr's Rip Line is hacking?

 

I get that as a dev you can't test every single thing but blaming players for cheating because they use something that's always been there is total BS.

[--F--NerevarCM]

Just now, Kyoresh said:

I hate exploiters, but perma ban, for an exploit that harmed no one directly? thats pretty hard imo

If they already have a historic of exploiting events and other parts of the game. Then yes, they should be banned.

[--END--Rikutatis]

1 hour ago, Gabbynaru said:

Stop doing leaderboards and competitive stuff. Competition always brings the worst in people and they'll always try to cheat to get ahead. Always. This is supposed to be a co-op game, so why not encourage more cooperative gameplay rather than competitive?

No, please don't stop. I actually really enjoyed the event and the leaderboard give us a reason to push into these endurance runs and have fun. Many of us enjoy this competitive side of the game. I have had more fun with WF this week, even despite my lack of time to play it as much as I wanted to due to RL, than I have had in a long time before that. 

Even if DE hadn't done anything about exploits and cheats, that still wouldn't have detracted from my enjoyment of this aspect of the event. There's no reward tied to it, so it shouldn't affect anyone else's experience. It's just for bragging rights and self imposed challenges. 

[--LA--Vengeance]

11 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

because some of the bugs or issues that pop up are being found within minutes of a new update by players just playing the game 'like normal' so you have to ask, why didn't the QC team pick up on them if the players can find them that quickly...

If u ever worked as QA, u would know that in this case because of time limit isn't possible to check every single thing and make it work perfectly fine.

It's kinda hilarious how the only ones who were on top of it are self called competitive clans (competitive in Wf ayyy)

And how those same ppl didn't go to try out does it work but literally stay for hours in mission to get top score and no other purpose. So not like they went and ''ohhh a bug I accidentally found''.

Please.

[--F--NerevarCM]

Just now, AvPCelticPredator said:

If they are "FIX" why this thread is still open?

For fun maybe!

Because players want to talk about said post.

Or DE should post something and simply close the thread, so that players can't talk about it?

[Maganar]

32 minutes ago, Axeman1787 said:

Thank you! It's literally just using Loki's ability in a creative way. I don't know why DE would punish players for using their Warframe's abilities. If they felt it was imbalanced then they should have given the Demolyst some way of getting back onto the map. It's my understanding that they did do that but if it glitches, then how is that the Loki's fault? All the Loki knew was that if he tele'd the Demolyst off a ledge that sometimes it dies and sometimes it teleports back. Units dying when they fall off the map is the norm in Warframe so, if anything, the Loki would think the teleporting was a glitch and not the established interaction.

All I see is a cooperative puzzle set forward by DE and the community solving it in creative ways. 

Maybe I'm missing something on how Loki's ability works? I ran the mode with Ash and I don't have Loki so I wouldn't know.

I agree with this logic - but as soon as you put a competitive angle on it, everyone who didn't think of that trick (a clever an ingenious one in my opinion) is going to be angry if they cared about winning because they are competing against something that can completely override increasing enemy levels and thus allowing those using the trick to sweep.

This is why I'm personally with the people like the first post (who I won't quote because they've been quoted enough and their notifications are probably going nuts) that DE should just can the idea of trying to add competitive features for a game that is without question strongest as a cooperative experience.  Competition in such a complex game leads to "exploitation" (real or perceived) of features, and exploitative gameplay leads to toxicity and rage.  Warframe doesn't need that as a community.

Every time a "trick" like this comes to light during any competitive activity, the devs have to take a stance on whether it's exploitation or not, and their call will be unpopular with someone either way (in this case, you and me who feel this is very harsh to anyone who used this trick).  Whenever there are disagreements over what qualifies as exploitation, well-intentioned players are going to receive punishments (in this case, it rather alarmingly seems to be a permanent ban for heavy use) for trying to be ingenious and discovering unintended features.  This is an inevitable consequence of competitive activity in a game with so many abilities and where circumventing the numerical scaling of the game (with increasing levels) is the main source of said endurance running.

I think DE needs to take a step back and stop trying to please competitive clan crowds, and worry more about trying to please the people that take the game's co-op seriously.  I never participated in Raids back when those existed, but I remember the promises they would "return in some form" and have seen nothing to that tune.  If DE wants to help a part of the playerbase that claims to be disenfranchised and alienated, groups like the former Raid community should come first (which play to the game's strengths as a cooperative experience) and not those that introduce toxicity (and punishments that feel unfair) to a community that is otherwise largely a haven from that behavior.

These people ASKED for competitive clan activities back and went super ham as soon as they came back.  Now they are facing potential permanent bans.  It's sad - and was completely avoidable if they'd just known when to let go of a dead thing.  Let them be a warning to us all.

[--DSP--Jetstream]

3 minutes ago, Kyoresh said:

I hate exploiters, but perma ban, for an exploit that harmed no one directly? thats pretty hard imo

Remember the affinity exploit? ofc exploit wont harm anyone it just benefit the user, but exploit is exploit and any game devs must show theres consequence for it, or else everyone will just do it since theres no consequences.
and good job de for handling it fast, should make good example for future event.

[kakaalda12]

vor 47 Minuten schrieb Axeman1787:

Thank you! It's literally just using Loki's ability in a creative way. I don't know why DE would punish players for using their Warframe's abilities. If they felt it was imbalanced then they should have given the Demolyst some way of getting back onto the map. It's my understanding that they did do that but if it glitches, then how is that the Loki's fault? All the Loki knew was that if he tele'd the Demolyst off a ledge that sometimes it dies and sometimes it teleports back. Units dying when they fall off the map is the norm in Warframe so, if anything, the Loki would think the teleporting was a glitch and not the established interaction.

All I see is a cooperative puzzle set forward by DE and the community solving it in creative ways. 

Maybe I'm missing something on how Loki's ability works? I ran the mode with Ash and I don't have Loki so I wouldn't know.

"Using Loki´s Ability in a creative way"

You call glitching creative? Yeah no, teleporting enemies through floors or S#&$ thats not creative, thats just plain abuse and nothing else.

Whats the effort of doing that? None at all

They banned players because they are supposed to put effort in defending the conduits, not abusing a glitch to insta kill enemies

 

[LSG501]

11 minutes ago, Vengeance_A said:

If u ever worked as QA, u would know that in this case because of time limit isn't possible to check every single thing and make it work perfectly fine.

It's kinda hilarious how the only ones who were on top of it are self called competitive clans (competitive in Wf ayyy)

And how those same ppl didn't go to try out does it work but literally stay for hours in mission to get top score and no other purpose. So not like they went and ''ohhh a bug I accidentally found''.

Please.

The point I'm trying to make is that if a bug is so easily found by a player then it should also be found by the qc team....the qc team will have 'better tools' than the players after all.

As to people not reporting the bugs they found and using them for personal gain, well that's on them, but at the same time some of the responsibility needs to lay on QC, not to mention in this update they had an 'extra' delay for more QC etc.

[Aerinx]

12 minutes ago, AvPCelticPredator said:

If they are "FIX" why this thread is still open?

For fun maybe!

I see, you don't have readying comprehension in english or you did not read patch notes. Both of those are patched and fixed. This thread is about punishments for people abusing those. And threads are not closed like that.

[Tesunie]

36 minutes ago, KelvinM6 said:

I could tell it wasn't intended, just like how not every legitimate tactic or strategy is intended, this isn't automatically worth a ban, or the suspension that is also a ban that isn't permanent, hence why I called it a ban.

 

If you read my post, my biggest point was that this thing going on under the hood wasn't 100% apparent.

For those people who had it happen "occasionally" trying to pull the enemy away from the objective, they will probably not see any problems. Those who did it over and over again and was appearing to instant kill opponents intentionally to rake in the high scores are the ones most likely seeing punishment for their actions.

Typically, it is normally obvious that a difficult opponent needed to be killed in a short amount of time is being instantly killed by X ability probably isn't the intended action for the event. When everyone else and all other frames have to work at getting the objective kill (or in this case, protect the objective from a specific unit), and yet people doing a specific action to easily do it... That's typically seen as an obvious exploit.

This reminds me of an exploit that got people banned from GW2, where people could buy an item cheap for Karma, and then sell it for extremely high prices at a vendor (when all other Karma items was not sell-able at all), it was an obvious exploit. Just like how I suspect it was handled here, those who (in GW2's case) bought a single item for Karma and used it where not punished. People who bought it once, sold it and rebought it also where not punished. Those who bought and sold hundreds of the said item to make their accounts rich were punished (and then followed by "how was I suppose to know" rants later).

 

In this case, it affects the leaderboard, which falls into PvP. Finding an exploit in a typical PvE match probably would not be worth this attention, and probably would not be worth actually exploiting. It matters little in normal game play if someone found a way to kill a boss quickly and end the mission. Once the mission is done, there typically is fewer reasons to continue, or for example once you've acquired all the pieces of a warframe from the assassination there is no reason to continue.

In this specific situation, it falls slightly into PvP (despite it's PvE elements in appearance). People have found it worth while to find and continue to abuse this exploit to farther their name/rank/etc in the game to unusual proportions.It is worth continuing to use an exploit for gain, and thus it's more worthy of some form of punishment.

I will say I'm not in complete disagreement about "they should have been warned first, then bans if they continued to do it", but I will also mention that it should have been apparent that the actions taken was not "normal" and probably should not have been abused.

[AvPCelticPredator]

11 minutes ago, -OP-NerevarCM said:

Because players want to talk about said post.

Or DE should post something and simply close the thread, so that players can't talk about it?

U know, if u "FIX" something that means that is fixed, and "CASE" is closed, thread is closed, no have arguing about nothing.

Why someone to arguing about something what is already fixed, where is the point in that!?

Do DEVS care what u think or me, or what u have to say about exploiting, I dont think so.

U just wasting your time with me, they dont give a shiit about our opinions, check all this comments in this thread, and search where they are participated in the discussion, they are not and they will not participated.

If they care they will be active in disscusion.

Try to think several time before u reply.

Regards! 😉

[SolarDwagon]

Good to see this being taken seriously, and it sounds like a good solution.

[AvPCelticPredator]

9 minutes ago, Aerinx said:

And threads are not closed like that.

So, if "I" create thread to "Blame" exploiters and make a "Jokes" about them then Moderators of this forum wont "Closed" my thread?

Are u sure???

Where u live, which galaxy!?

[Julian_Skies]

7 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

The point I'm trying to make is that if a bug is so easily found by a player then it should also be found by the qc team....the qc team will have 'better tools' than the players after all.

Actually no, QA doesn't have "better tools" than the player, that's the point of QA, they act as players do.  

But their QA staff is at *best* two dozen, if it's even up to two digits. We're hundreds of thousands. We'll find in days what'd take them months.

Also the particular thing with Loki isn't because they were throwing enemies into pits to kill them. There was this one specific place in this particular pit that could do it because the place that is supposed to teleport players/enemies back to land when they fall wasn't there. If you, as a player, can't realize this is a bug and go on to use that in a competitive mode, you're not innocent, you're malicious.

Also this is why I hate things of competitive nature, if you can't trust the other parties (and you never can unless you know them) this stuff happens, and by this stuff I mean look at this thread and how people are behaving.

[--LA--Vengeance]

14 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

The point I'm trying to make is that if a bug is so easily found by a player then it should also be found by the qc team....the qc team will have 'better tools' than the players after all.

I understood very well what u wanted to say. I am working as QA and I know how these things works.

Not every single thing can be detail checked. It can, in smaller games, but not games like Warframe is. From what I understood, they don't even have hired QA team (many companies don't cuz extra $$) but several ppl who are willing to do it.

Regarding QA tool, actually QA gets same version as players do, just it's not published/live by the time they check it. There is no such a thing as ''having tools''.
Thats something admins/mods have. Or eventually dev build.

Many knew for this exploit,yet not everyone used it. The ones who did, they are veterans, know rules and how this works, yet decided to do it. Greed.

[LSG501]

Just now, Julian_Skies said:

Actually no, QA doesn't have "better tools" than the player, that's the point of QA, they act as players do. 

You might want to watch DE Glens stream then... not all QC is done as 'players'...

[MunsuLight]

So everytime someone use in game clever game mechanics they are gonna get banned ? Gotcha
So what about retroactively banning everyone who cheesed Lephantis with Gara/Ember during the first PLaguestar before the fix ? 
So what about you making a mod Like shattering impact useless in game against only some boss (Profit Taker) just because you decided it was an exploit.. 
So what about everything that you want to nerf because it is too "efficient" like Itzal when you designed it to be the fastest AW..  
SO what about the nerfs to Ember because she was "too good" for level 10.. 

And we can all go on like that, problem is that you design things without testing everything and you expect clever people to not try everything.