I Meant To Write About Death, Only Life Came Breaking In As Usual.

[WeissKreuz]

No, my answer is that if you are really THAT WORRIED about the mastery of a weapon you dont care to level i am sure that this missing mastery wont matter because they will add more content at some point.

 

The actually real question here is...... do you really need that mastery right now? There are enough weapons in the game where this specific weapon that you dont like doesnt need to be ranked up for you to reach any mastery level.

 

No. I'm rank 8 and haven't cared about mastery since rank 7. But that's hardly the point. Login XP is eve less useful than nanospores. But it doesn't have to be. If it accrued in some kind of 'free xp' pile... or.. what ever. In it's current state it's simply useless. Further, if we took the time to make,  or decided to buy, a weapon.... it would be nice to get the mastery. And if it's as impotent as the machete, applying login xp to it would render the issue moot.

[WeissKreuz]

I just want to comment on some new content no one seems to have noticed....

 

I made a suggestion to Skree some time ago in regard to elemental hazards in the maps. Influenced by my suggestion or not, I've been seeing electrified water in places. These are the kinds of minor additions that can be added to existing tile sets to add that... tactical edge, make terrain more relevant, etc. Exploding barrels are so 1997.

[Mak_Gohae]

 

Steve, I hear you guys at DE say that you are over whelmed. (And sometimes, we can see it, with Sheldon) 

 

Isn't it an option to hire new people? 

 

I don't know, I'm not in your shoes (or your employer's), but I think you guys could use some new blood. How many people work on Warframe right now, not counting the volunteers? 20? 30? 40 maybe? 

 

I heard Riot had 500-something employees, and their updates gets better all the time (they aren't perfect, but they're trying hard). Now, obviously they aren't in the same situation (at all) and you guys don't need 500 right now, but I can't help but feel that you have too little hands on deck to help with the game. It would certainly help bug fixing and development. You have a lot of players to cater to, a bigger team makes sense to me. 

 

 

A Chinese company gave Riot half a billion dollars.

 

No. I'm rank 8 and haven't cared about mastery since rank 7. But that's hardly the point. Login XP is eve less useful than nanospores. But it doesn't have to be. If it accrued in some kind of 'free xp' pile... or.. what ever. In it's current state it's simply useless. Further, if we took the time to make,  or decided to buy, a weapon.... it would be nice to get the mastery. And if it's as impotent as the machete, applying login xp to it would render the issue moot.

 

They did say that they are looking into the exp reward a while back. So just chill and wait until you could level weapons you dont like...

[BETAOPTICS]

- Snip -

I agree with the OP. DE should be fix the Mutagen Sample problem and fast. Each day passes will drain the communities overall motivation and mood to play the game and each day is vital for you guys. Why be so stubborn in design. If you really want to make adjustments that may alter the way we get things in the future, complete the system before you alter anything. Don't punish players for being effective and that is exactly what Update 10 did. Instead of simply moving the materials to another harder to get tileset ( I read your comment Steve ).

You should have made sure that there are plenty of ways to get the material in the first place or then release the whole change later on. What you did was a rushed thing that you did not have the time to think trough at the cost of communities happiness and since, like you said, the community is the most important thing to you. Why did you go and do such a thing. If I were you I would have taken the smart choice and say, you know what guys. I feel that this system needs a bit of polishing so let's get it polished as soon as possible and implement it later on. That way community would have stayed a lot more happy, the system would have worked better and no one would have complained it not being in the update since no one asked for it in the first place.

I hope that you really learn your lesson this time around. As you don't have publishers to push you around, you don't need to add as much as possible for the sake of: " as much as possible content included in update ".

Edited September 19, 2013 by BETAOPTICS

[Kinperor]

A Chinese company gave Riot half a billion dollars.

 

Really?

 

Bleh, I fail to see how that matters. DE doesn't need 500 employees, but could use more. That's my point really. 

[Mak_Gohae]

I agree with the OP. DE should be fix the Mutagen Sample problem and fast. Each day passes will drain the communities overall motivation and mood to play the game and each day is vital for you guys. Why be so stubborn in design. If you really want to make adjustments that may alter the way we get things in the future, complete the system before you alter anything. Don't punish players for being effective and that is exactly what Update 10 did. Instead of simply moving the materials to another harder to get tileset ( I read your comment Steve ).

You should have made sure that there are plenty of ways to get the material in the first place or then release the whole change later on. What you did was a rushed thing that you did not have the time to think trough at the cost of communities happiness and since, like you said, the community is the most important thing to you. Why did you go and do such a thing. If I were you I would have taken the smart choice and say, you know what guys. I feel that this system needs a bit of polishing so let's get it polished as soon as possible and implement it later on. That way community would have stayed a lot more happy, the system would have worked better and no one would have complained it not being in the update since no one asked for it in the first place.

I hope that you really learn your lesson this time around. As you don't have publishers to push you around, you don't need to add as much as possible for the sake of: " as much as possible content included in update ".

 

 

5 days max before people are complaining about not having anything to do.

I dont know if it's the same group of people but there is a camp complaining about not having enough to do and a camp complaining that it takes to long. So they have to pick a middle ground and that's what they did.

[theGreatZamboni]

What needs to be taken away is, Steve just blocked all of our plights with damage control language. It is on him and the studio what they do with this information. An idea of mods helping with the information overload has been suggested (no idea why this wasn't already in place) and our concerns have been all placed in one thread. This is the thread. We got Steve in here to listen and he just kinda ignored it, or it seems that way. You had some of the most prominent people voice the concerns of the people in a well thought out manner, it is all here, at least the broad issues. Seriously it is in here, read it, learn it and succeed. Warframe has the potential to be one of the coolest and most successful games ever made, we are trying to get through to you. I feel like this was a last ditched effort and we just got "noted". We are here, setup a system instead of just saying "It is too much information". The Warframe Prime Time might help if formatted correctly. I am tired of superficial questions being answered about vegetables used to record sounds. Rebecca did a nice job pushing the hard questions on the team this previous livestream and they just kinda "noted" it.

 

Everyone makes mistakes and while yours are numerous; if you step up and admit fault, you can plow through to that date of November 15th with a game you can feel proud of. As of right now, there is so much wrong that adding new weapons is just killing your game. Fix what you have. If you release a game with a reworked melee system, better damage modifiers, game modes that are fun and lore that is compelling; your game will be so great it won't need 1,000 weapons and 100 Warframes to extend play time. You can always add weapons, you cannot bring back players. You are turning people away, in favor of short term boosts in player and monetary growth. Was releasing U10 in the state it was in really worth the headache? Was it worth not just sitting on it for a week and fixing bugs?

 

Steve, you keep hinting at wanting to be like TF2. Do not do that. You know what other game tried to be like TF2? Tribes: Ascend. When TF2 went F2P along with it's community contributions, it killed the game. This is in the same vain as Call of Duty Clones. You want to be successful, so you copy something. But you don't look at why the very thing you are copying succeed. How many Call of Duty Clones are still around? How many are critically acclaimed? Now look at Max Payne 3. A game that has a basic cover system with bullet-time. Tight controls and an interesting narrative. How many games use a 3rd-peson cover system and succeed just because they are using a 3rd-person cover system? I can name one game that didn't do too well because it tried to copy things from other games: Dark Sector. Yes, it is well documented how hard it was for you to get the game made and you had to compromise on your dream project because of the success of Call of Duty. But the landscape has changed. Stop trying to emulate others based on successes and emulate them based on what is fun, the success will follow. The publishers are not killing the game this time around, you are.

 

Please Steve, this game is too good an idea to just fall apart like this. You have your most dedicated players in here making plights for the new players as well as themselves. But even they see this is not going well. When your most dedicated players feel the game is sinking, yet you don't, there is something terribly wrong.

Edited September 20, 2013 by theGreatZamboni

[General_Krull]

What needs to be taken away is, Steve just blocked all of our plights with damage control language. It is on him and the studio what they do with this information. An idea of mods helping with the information overload has been suggested (no idea why this wasn't already in place) and our concerns have been all placed in one thread. This is the thread. We got Steve in here to listen and he just kinda ignored it, or it seems that way. You had some of the most prominent people voice the concerns of the people in a well thought out manner, it is all here, at least the broad issues. Seriously it is in here, read it, learn it and succeed. Warframe has the potential to be one of the coolest and most successful games ever made, we are trying to get through to you. I feel like this was a last ditched effort and we just got "noted". We are here, setup a system instead of just saying "It is too much information". The Warframe Prime Time might help if formatted correctly. I am tired of superfical questions being answered about vegetables used to record sounds. Rebecca did a nice job pushing the hard questions on the team this previous livestream and they just kinda "noted" it.

 

Please Steve, this game is too good an idea to just fall apart like this. You have your most dedicated players in here making plights for the new players as well as themselves.

Pls Steve fix gaem, listen to our concerns or at least take them in to consideration. I mean we have several hundred hours (745 hours myself) so we have seen everything this game has to offer and multiple times too so we know what we are talking about.

And I'm not saying ignore "noobs" either, they have the insight on how the starting areas work and what needs to be done to make it work.

[R3leaZ]

Reading this thread has been very interesting. Seeing all these arguments and counter arguments also helps staying up-to-date of the situations. I do agree that DE should focus on fixing their core mechanics and features. Sure new weapons or Warframes might help temporarily but it doesn't fix that this game is terribly lacking. I'll just be monitoring this thread since the devs and mods have been very active in here and I could see what they have to say.

[__Kanade__]

i agree with what you said about the design council.....when i became a founder i was under the impression the design council was to help shape the future of warframe not just vote on cosmetic details. I thought the DC would be there to have more say on what changes are made to the game.

Unfortunately, many of the Council members have some massive egos to big for them to handle just cause they're on the DC. They bring in more "Only my opinion matters because I'm on the Design Council and I am a Founder, not yours because your not on the Design Council or a Founder".

[WeissKreuz]

Unfortunately, many of the Council members have some massive egos to big for them to handle just cause they're on the DC. They bring in more "Only my opinion matters because I'm on the Design Council and I am a Founder, not yours because your not on the Design Council or a Founder".

 

Where did he say any of that?

[Archistopheles]

I feel like I had one chance to really get my opinions out to Steve and there was too much pressure to say exactly what I wanted to say.

 

If the devs were snooping around all the time, it wouldn't be as intimidating as finishing a Nightmare no shields energy drain as Trinity right after Stalker finally dropped the last weapon bp you needed from him.

[Etsoree]

Nothing is perfect, they cannot make everyone happy with the game. If you spent a thousand on this then you obviously still enjoy it regardless.

 

It's a BETA, too: things are going to be bugged and always will be bugged even when this isn't in beta.

 

Nothing is perfect.

Edited September 19, 2013 by Etsoree

[theGreatZamboni]

Where did he say any of that?

 

They didn't. No one who had anything constructive to say in this thread even suggested it. All the posting about the core mechanics, grind, lore, everything was for the betterment of the game; not so service anyone's ego. We worry about new players, we worry about everyone. Some of the best posts on these forums come from no DC players. Being on the DC is superficial and has nothing to do with the quality or priorities of someones' post.

[General_Krull]

Nothing is perfect, they cannot make everyone happy with the game. If you spent a thousand on this then you obviously still enjoy it regardless.

 

It's a BETA, too: things are going to be bugged and always will be bugged even when this isn't in beta.

 

Nothing is perfect.

But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to aspire for perfection even though we will never achieve it. Great ideas can't be born without questioning and great things can't be built without testing structural integrity.

[theGreatZamboni]

Nothing is perfect, they cannot make everyone happy with the game. If you spent a thousand on this then you obviously still enjoy it regardless.

 

It's a BETA, too: things are going to be bugged and always will be bugged even when this isn't in beta.

 

Nothing is perfect.

 

That is just naive. There is nothing else to say. You obviously have not read the posts that have been made in this topic.

 

Read:

But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to aspire for perfection even though we will never achieve it. Great ideas can't be born without questioning and great things can't be built without testing structural integrity.

Edited September 19, 2013 by theGreatZamboni

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

I think _all_ players should have the right to view it. Voting is another matter. As we've all stated, it's mostly votes on names of things, or what gun they already designed gets added first. It's silly not to share that with everyone.

Agreed. It's not as if things don't get leaked an hour later anyways. ;)

[R3leaZ]

Unfortunately, many of the Council members have some massive egos to big for them to handle just cause they're on the DC. They bring in more "Only my opinion matters because I'm on the Design Council and I am a Founder, not yours because your not on the Design Council or a Founder".

 

Those are a very minority of the DC though. I've seen enough DC members who are also very nice and also very nice in-game. Also like that guy you quoted said, we don't have much to say in the DC at all. We are only able to see stuff DE is working on early and we can bring up ideas of names or powers and DE are the ones picking the ideas that they like the most.

 

Name ideas for the new Sentinel consisted of 27 pages. DE chose 5 names... It's like that with everything. We don't get much to say just choose which sounds better and both for Nova and Carrier I ended up not voting at all since I didn't like the names (or powers).

[Etsoree]

But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to aspire for perfection even though we will never achieve it. Great ideas can't be born without questioning and great things can't be built without testing structural integrity.

 

Hence the design council and these forums, though I don't think it's a good idea to have to buy your way into the council.

Edited September 19, 2013 by Etsoree

[theGreatZamboni]

Hence the design council and these forums, though I don't think it's a good idea to have to buy your way into the council.

 

You are not reading any of these posts are you? The Design Council does less for the game than the regular forums. Voting on superficial things like names and priorities is not exactly discussing design philosophy, something that cannot even happen in the DC by design. You cannot make threads in the Design Council, so all discussions happen in a public space. So where are you getting this idea that players needs to pay to have their opinions heard?

Edited September 19, 2013 by theGreatZamboni

[AngelGuardcc]

someone should lock or delete this thread ( Thread maker got his Response and apologized = thread solved )

 

 

too much drama here

 

 

 

didnt bother reading it

 

 

 

Remember last stream guys , hate and anger on a bottle and release it later....dont cause drama

Edited September 19, 2013 by AngelGuardcc

[General_Krull]

You are not reading any of these posts are you? The Design Council does less for the game than the regular forums. Voting on superficial things like names and priorities is not exactly discussing design philosophy, something that cannot even happen in the DC by design. You cannot make threads in the Design Council, so all discussions happen in a public space. So where are you getting this idea that players needs to pay to have their opinions heard?

https://warframe.com/founders

 

"Help shape the future of warframe!" I know it doesn't say anything about making decisions or even having your voice heard but it gives the picture that you will.

[theGreatZamboni]

someone should lock or delete this thread ( Thread maker got his Response and apologized = thread solved )

 

 

too much drama here

 

 

 

didnt bother reading it

 

 

 

Remember last stream guys , hate and anger on a bottle and release it later....dont cause drama

 

If you didn't bother to read it, why do you think that it needs to be locked? Are you just assuming constructive discussion didn't happen? You need to read this thread. This thread was a last ditch effort to let DE know that things are not doing so hot amongst us. No one is causing drama, you are derailing the thread by assuming there is. We had people voice unpopular opinions that were talked about and ideas were made known. Please, if you do not take the time to be part of a discussion, why bother partaking in it?

 

Also: Saying the thread was solved is just foolish. What happened was Steve felt compelled to respond to someone who put 1000$ into a shoddy product with hopes of improvement. He voiced why he was upset. Steve's response made him back peddle even though his concerns were valid. We then went on to say that, yes, his complaints were valid.

Edited September 20, 2013 by theGreatZamboni

[theGreatZamboni]

https://warframe.com/founders

 

"Help shape the future of warframe!" I know it doesn't say anything about making decisions or even having your voice heard but it gives the picture that you will.

 

That is where this falls on DE. They don't communicate that the Design Council is just a perk. A lot of people think the DC has special privileges and are ruining the game. This again, is a failure of communication on DE's part.

[Firetempest]

 

Steve, I hear you guys at DE say that you are over whelmed. (And sometimes, we can see it, with Sheldon) 

 

Isn't it an option to hire new people?

Takes a long time for new hires to get up to speed, and just throwing more cooks into the kitchen wont solve some problems.

And you have to grow the help at a controlled pace, you cant just get a bunch of people and bloat your spending just because you might be having a growth spurt. And with WF, more players don't always mean more spending. Like the scarves. The ones purchasing anything new might be people still using plat that was paid for months ago and its not fresh income.

 

 

Hence the design council and these forums, though I don't think it's a good idea to have to buy your way into the council.

Kinda agree. At least about the current extent.

I think any founder, any package, should be in DC. Like the difference in master and grand is just a badge and a prime gun. Those items are enough to divide founders, not voices, or votes rather.

Though more could be done with DC, at least for more sandbox topics.

Edited September 19, 2013 by Firetempest