I Meant To Write About Death, Only Life Came Breaking In As Usual.

[Mak_Gohae]

Positive people is bring the game down? ERrr... ok. That implies we are emotionless robots and only enjoy consuming frustrated rants! But seriously - if you've ever watched a live-stream, and the questions Rebecca asks you know that we spend a great deal of time processing negative feedback and zero time reading testimonials and congratulating ourselves.

[General_Krull]

So the graphics guys should just hang out at DE headquarters while the bug fix guys can get their stuff done?

The sound guys should doing be playing Guitar Hero instead of doing their sound stuff?

How do you folks still not understand that there are different departments doing different things?

Come on, man.

YES THAT'S WHAT I MEANT! GOOD JOB!

I meant they should focus on polishing and fixing what they have. So graphics guys can improve and polish the maps, enemy units and how smooth everything renders. Sound guys could improve sound quality, add more ambient sounds and all that jazz. (maybe even add a music track or 2 so the game could have even 5 different tracks.) 

Please, I want to understand your thought process, how do you not see that we want to help make this game the best it can be?

 

Positive people is bring the game down? ERrr... ok. That implies we are emotionless robots and only enjoy consuming frustrated rants! But seriously - if you've ever watched a live-stream, and the questions Rebecca asks you know that we spend a great deal of time processing negative feedback and zero time reading testimonials and congratulating ourselves.

That is not what he meant and I think you know it. If you had only people mindlessly praising everything you do the game would bomb fast. The loudest complainers have stayed the longest and the people who offer only praise do not stay long.

And besides, while compliments are nice they are pretty much worthless if you want to improve things. I mean I like to draw and it's nice to hear people compliment my works ( I don't know why, they're all S#&$) but I can't improve myself if I don't hear suggestions and critique.

[theGreatZamboni]

"You insist upon that this game has no grind..." Isn't true at all. We fully acknowledge the grind - that was the impetus for the alert/loot table rework. It needs more work...

Fundamentally this is the balancing act of any game that is 'free to play'. Queue WARFARM jokes... Players with more money and less time subsidize those with less money and more time. For many games this 'playing to get something' is called 'grinding'. Too much (like we have in spots) and players give up and our community shrinks. Too little and no one bothers to support the game (or feels like stuff they bought isn't valuable enough) and we die as well. You know this already but the point I'm trying to make it we are stilling trying to balance this and we do it with a bit of caution.

Sorry if you've felt misled by something we said but implying we are a pack of liars is false. We may be bad at predicting the future, yes. Liars, no.

 

Steve the game is exactly follows:

 

--------------

 

There is no context or player motivation.

 

You grind levels that are unfun, where tilesets do not affect gameplay, for materials.

 

These materials are used to make weapons and warframes. These help you get materials.

 

Those materials net you more weapons and warframes until you hit a slot-cap and have to pay money.

 

So now you have to delete things you spent hours leveling, have become attached to, to use your new items if you do not want to pay money.

 

--------------

 

So here is where your model makes no sense, with motivations for players as rudimentary as "gotta collect em all" you dampen the experience by doing this. So you try to add "end game content" through the void. But what is the point if you do not have room for your new items? What is the benefit of a Prime vs a regular Frame besides esthetics since the addition of Forma? The "secret interaction" with traps is not enough to make someone want those frames. So you are betting that people will waste their time playing boring game modes to get gear that is worthless to them, outside of being esthetically pleasing. I can go on and on, but I am too tired at this point. It makes me sad.

 

 

EDIT : The Refer-A-Friend is as described is terribly executed. You can only play with 3 other people at a time; so getting 10 people to play, only to leave them without assistance while you help others will assuredly turn them away. It is like throwing an toddler in the deep end. I have no problems teaching this game to new players, in fact when I am bored I do just that. But having 7 friends unable to use my knowledge while I babysit only 3 of them is just illogical. Sure all 10 won't be playing at the same time, but you get the idea. ( I hope) So rewarding us by dragging people into your game, explaining why it is fun and flawed, is not a way to establish a playerbase. Nor is having the very driving factor of this game, slots, be tied to this method and calling it a "reward".

Edited September 24, 2013 by theGreatZamboni

[Slurmageddon]

P.S. The Design Council; the majority of them are adolescent 12 yo using their mothers credit cards. Sure listen to them but be cautious of what they say because so far all the things that have come outta the Design Council feel like they're for an edgy pre-teen whose listening to System of the Down and Linken Park.

 

Spoken like someone who truly has NO idea what they're talking about, both about what the council members are like, or how we shape anything in the game.

The things you suggest "come out of" the council did not. For the most part (read: ALL parts) we are just given a small selection of things made by DE and we pick our favorite whilst giving our 2 cents in the comments section.

The only difference between the council en-masse and the general community is that most of us are more invested in the game and its future than someone who isn't a founder; And we occasionally vote on something. That's it.

[Mak_Gohae]

YES THAT'S WHAT I MEANT! GOOD JOB!

I meant they should focus on polishing and fixing what they have. So graphics guys can improve and polish the maps, enemy units and how smooth everything renders. Sound guys could improve sound quality, add more ambient sounds and all that jazz. (maybe even add a music track or 2 so the game could have even 5 different tracks.) 

Please, I want to understand your thought process, how do you not see that we want to help make this game the best it can be?

 

 

Wait... you think that they dont do anything but add new content and ignore old stuff?

How is this possible? They are constantly fixing stuff.

I mean.... they ARE people, if they missed something that is bothering you so much have you put it on the feedback section so they could know?

I just made a post about a stance that has a frame with a broken elbow and i got a DE reply ASAP.

Have.... have you tried this?

[theGreatZamboni]

Positive people is bring the game down? ERrr... ok. That implies we are emotionless robots and only enjoy consuming frustrated rants! But seriously - if you've ever watched a live-stream, and the questions Rebecca asks you know that we spend a great deal of time processing negative feedback and zero time reading testimonials and congratulating ourselves.

 

You completely dodged the point. Is someone saying "NJ THIS IS THE BEST YOU CAN DO! helpful when compared to "The art direction is great, but you are making the game more of a pointless grind through not improving player-framing/gamemodes to instill a sense of accomplishment in the player besides the drops themselves. Also adding more weapons does not extend playtime, unless you are willing to play the same un-fun gamemodes."

 

Because the latter comment and ones like it permeate these forums and go ignored.

[WeissKreuz]

Spoken like someone who truly has NO idea what they're talking about, both about what the council members are like, or how we shape anything in the game.

The things you suggest "come out of" the council did not. For the most part (read: ALL parts) we are just given a small selection of things made by DE and we pick our favorite whilst giving our 2 cents in the comments section.

The only difference between the council en-masse and the general community is that most of us are more invested in the game and its future than someone who isn't a founder; And we occasionally vote on something. That's it.

 Seriously WTF is with those people...

[theGreatZamboni]

YES THAT'S WHAT I MEANT! GOOD JOB!

I meant they should focus on polishing and fixing what they have. So graphics guys can improve and polish the maps, enemy units and how smooth everything renders. Sound guys could improve sound quality, add more ambient sounds and all that jazz. (maybe even add a music track or 2 so the game could have even 5 different tracks.) 

Please, I want to understand your thought process, how do you not see that we want to help make this game the best it can be?

 

That is not what he meant and I think you know it. If you had only people mindlessly praising everything you do the game would bomb fast. The loudest complainers have stayed the longest and the people who offer only praise do not stay long.

And besides, while compliments are nice they are pretty much worthless if you want to improve things. I mean I like to draw and it's nice to hear people compliment my works ( I don't know why, they're all S#&$) but I can't improve myself if I don't hear suggestions and critique.

 

He is just being condescending. I framed the question well. He chose to ignore it and make me look stupid, or at least he tried. Thanks for that...

Edited September 19, 2013 by theGreatZamboni

[General_Krull]

 

Wait... you think that they dont do anything but add new content and ignore old stuff?

How is this possible? They are constantly fixing stuff.

I mean.... they ARE people, if they missed something that is bothering you so much have you put it on the feedback section so they could know?

I just made a post about a stance that has a frame with a broken elbow and i got a DE reply ASAP.

Have.... have you tried this?

They add new stuff too frequently and fix issues too slowly. I have put feedback on there and so far it has been ignored. And I post on general forums all the time, commenting on threads that report the same issues over and over again and they never get addressed.

[Nerokerubina]

They add new stuff too frequently and fix issues too slowly. I have put feedback on there and so far it has been ignored. And I post on general forums all the time, commenting on threads that report the same issues over and over again and they never get addressed.

 

I mean crap. They just released two new concept art pieces of MORE useless melee weapons and guns for us to use to the Design Council.

 

Instead of releasing new concept art for new content they should release new information on the things that should be fixed.

[theGreatZamboni]

 

Wait... you think that they dont do anything but add new content and ignore old stuff?

How is this possible? They are constantly fixing stuff.

I mean.... they ARE people, if they missed something that is bothering you so much have you put it on the feedback section so they could know?

I just made a post about a stance that has a frame with a broken elbow and i got a DE reply ASAP.

Have.... have you tried this?

 

People have, I guess you are the special snowflake that proves the rule.

[Mak_Gohae]

They add new stuff too frequently and fix issues too slowly. I have put feedback on there and so far it has been ignored. And I post on general forums all the time, commenting on threads that report the same issues over and over again and they never get addressed.

 

So basically.... not fast enough for you.

Dude, patience.

BTW, what issue is it?

 

 

 

People have, I guess you are the special snowflake that proves the rule.

 

So what is this that must be fix ASAP or the world ends?

Edited September 19, 2013 by Mak_Gohae

[WeissKreuz]

 

Wait... you think that they dont do anything but add new content and ignore old stuff?

How is this possible? They are constantly fixing stuff.

I mean.... they ARE people, if they missed something that is bothering you so much have you put it on the feedback section so they could know?

I just made a post about a stance that has a frame with a broken elbow and i got a DE reply ASAP.

Have.... have you tried this?

 

The Lato Prime still cant be colored. How long do you think we've complained about that? Do you think we just $#*(@ and moan with out providing specific, detailed examples in the bug forums? Dude... Come on...

Edited September 19, 2013 by WeissKreuz

[General_Krull]

He is just being condescending. I framed the question well. You chose to ignore it and make me look stupid, or at least you tried. Thanks for that...

whoops, soz mate

 

 

I mean crap. They just released two new concept art pieces of MORE useless melee weapons and guns for us to use to the Design Council.

 

Instead of releasing new concept art for new content they should release new information on the things that should be fixed.

Whip does seem pretty nifty but I would rather have more enemy variety or more responsive wall running that doesn't sling me 500 feet past the ledge I was going for.

[Humongous_Koi]

Please, tell me more about how an e-journal post from 2 months ago accurately depicts a growth in this games population at present. 

 

Please direct me to the point where sentence where the journalist describes the feeling of watching a clan he has been part of rapidly decline in size because people have no compulsion to play anymore.

 

Everyone in a clan knows the above feeling because it is a growing trend. I find myself spending more and more time on the forums and less in game in vain hope that I will see an announcement or update that changes things.

 

No journalist who has barely played a game that I have played religiously for months is going to convince me otherwise.

 

I'd like to see an update on this article.

I respect that you guys want this game to keep its retention, but our developers have to keep pushing out content to keep old players happy, which is not easy in the very least. They're doing their best to keep old players playing and spending money, but it would be much easier to attract new players, have them spend money, and quit the game. A lot of veteran players want to keep playing, but do so by giving the bottom-of-the-barrel feedback and hope for immediate changes, and they become more angry at the guys developing their favorite game because they're impatient, very open because they're just facing a screen, and have very "diverse" vocabulary. (Remember that these guys are a small portion of the community) Also consider their age, behavior development, and knowledge of work.

 

Also imagine the amount of people who play the game that browse the forum, I imagine it would be very small.

 

Also take note that 2 months isn't a very large amount of time. More players would join the game than quit, which is considered growing.

Edited September 19, 2013 by Kunchoi

[theGreatZamboni]

So basically.... not fast enough for you.

Dude, patience.

BTW, what issue is it?

 

 

 

 

So what is this that must be fix ASAP or the world ends?

 

 

whoops, soz mate

 

 

Whip does seem pretty nifty but I would rather have more enemy variety or more responsive wall running that doesn't sling me 500 feet past the ledge I was going for.

 

I meant Steve did, not you. He was just being condescending to me, you weren't you were just defending me. I need to edit that post to make it clearer.

[General_Krull]

So basically.... not fast enough for you.

Dude, patience.

BTW, what issue is it?

Login rewards having redundant S#&$, but it's not the point and it's buried in the feedback forums. 

There are so many glaring issues right now like strict NAT that is still not fixed.

[Mak_Gohae]

The Lato Prime still cant be colored. How long do you think we've complained about that? Do you think we just $#*(@ and moan with out providing specific, detailed examples in the bug forums? Dude... Come on...

 

It took a long time to get the Plasma Sword to be able to be colored too.

But this is not the end of the world type of bugs, right? Let's not flip out that hardcore about it.

[WeissKreuz]

Login rewards having redundant S#&$, but it's not the point and it's buried in the feedback forums. 

There are so many glaring issues right now like strict NAT that is still not fixed.

 

Oh god.... Login rewards.... Steve told me personally they wanted to make it more legit and relevant months ago. Perhaps in several more months, it will be ;p

[theGreatZamboni]

I respect that you guys want this game to keep its retention, but our developers have to keep pushing out content to keep old players happy, which is not easy in the very least. They're doing their best to keep old players playing and spending money, but it would be much easier to attract new players, have them spend money, and quit the game. A lot of veteran players want to keep playing, but do so by giving the bottom-of-the-barrel feedback and hope for immediate changes, and they become more angry at the guys developing their favorite game because they're impatient, very open because they're just facing a screen, and have very "diverse" vocabulary. (Remember that these guys are a small portion of the community) Also consider their age, behavior development, and knowledge of work.

 

Also imagine the amount of people who play the game that browse the forum, I imagine it would be very small

 

You are not listening. It is not making us happy. I would rather DE put out a proper tutorial that explains the game better so new comers are not maligned further, versus having 300 new weapons and tilesets. We want core changes, not content. You can do both, but every update adds more broken crap to the "fix later" pile. I am concerned about the health of the game, not myself.

Edited September 19, 2013 by theGreatZamboni

[TunaMayo]

Being told that mutagens being derelict only was a bug and was being reverted in council chat only to be told by scott the next day that it was intentional and staying.

Being told that we can try desecrate and see if we like it, after a wave of negative feedback due to just the concept, we can influence its life in the game. Yet despite another wave of negative feedback we are told it is staying in the game regardless.

Being told that our feedback on warframe changes back in 8.3 matters. Yet volts feedback getting shafted to the point where Rebecca has to promise to push for him to get some attention months later.

Being told all frames will be balanced to be on par with nova and vauban rather than changing those two. Yet vauban recently had a change to vauban and the latest livestream mentioned nova is on the hitlist. Not saying these changes are/will be bad, it's just the opposite of what we were told.

Being told that grind is not the intended endgame and that you are working on it, yet in the livestream it was kind of insinuated that the end game is the grind?

Saying that PVP will not influence PvE, yet for the second time during an update containing PVP content, cheap godmode powers are nerfed. If the aim is to remove godmode in general and if these changes are purely coincidental, how did blessing slip through the cracks?

Despite not overtly addressed by anyone at DE, you very much avoided the question of forma despite it being debated heatedly in forums and chat. Where has it gone and why is it so hard to obtain with the bump in forma costs for the clan tech?

Sorry if it sounds like I'm hating on you guys or the game, I'm not and I don't. If I hated the game I would have left long ago. The very fact that I am ranting shows I care and for the most point I'm just pointing out facts.

 

 

I'm sorry to hear about the health problems of your family, health is something a lot of us take for granted. I'm glad you can escape a bit with Warframe.

As far as the other comments, lots of personal insults, very little actionable items, sarcasm... I can't really respond to them in detail but I did think it was cool you made some friends while playing Warfame.

 

Sorry to sound like a crybaby who isn't being heard. But I am a little miffed how you explicitly asked for points in the past where you have gone against your word as a company, yet when people provide you with said information you do not respond.

 

I have quoted my post above to aid in you finding the feedback.

 

I don't mind if your response slates me or proves me wrong entirely and I understand that this game is under development and change is to be expected and perhaps other things took priority. But I wouldn't mind some acknowledgement of these instances and even better, reasoning as to why they happened.

[Cleesus]

General and Mak, stop arguing before you completely derail the thread and get it locked. Also its pointless to argue with Mak since the only reason he even visits the forums is to flame and argue 80% of the time.

[Archistopheles]

Like I was trying to say: The core game is still F'ing awesome. The issues everyone is having is about those which aren't defined.

 

What path is DE on? Do they even know?

 

Why are we fighting? DE, you're the story teller. What's our story?

 

Why did Mutagens get moved? Why didn't you tell us that was your plan all along?

 

What drops where? Why didn't it drop for me?

 

Chaos leads to rumors, rumors lead to ignorance, ignorance leads to anger, anger leads to frustration. Frustration leads to quitting.

[Mak_Gohae]

Login rewards having redundant S#&$, but it's not the point and it's buried in the feedback forums. 

There are so many glaring issues right now like strict NAT that is still not fixed.

 

Login rewards are supposed to be redundant S%$$# You are not supposed to be getting Forma and Orokin stuff every other day.

And last time they mentioned strict NAT they said that only 7% of the population is still having that problem and they still looking into it.

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

Seriously WTF is with those people...

Lol it's like they equate the design council to the Illuminati or some secret organization that has tight reigns on what's done in warframe. They constantly blame us and single us out as the root cause of failure in warframe.

Sigh. I think they should have design council weekend and give all players access to the design council just for a couple days to see what really is (or isn't) going on.

Edited September 19, 2013 by sushidubya