I Meant To Write About Death, Only Life Came Breaking In As Usual.

[WeissKreuz]

Login rewards are supposed to be redundant S%$$# You are not supposed to be getting Forma and Orokin stuff every other day.

And last time they mentioned strict NAT they said that only 7% of the population is still having that problem and they still looking into it.

 

The issue is more that %99 of the time the login rewards pointless. Like item xp. How often to you log in with out rank 30 gear? I don't want to switch to unranked gear every time I log out just for the login reward to matter. It's not that the rewards are redundant, it's that they rarely ever matter.

[theGreatZamboni]

Steve you need to stop defending yourself and accept we are trying to help. We understand how busy it is, but you have the tools right here. You have mods who, while sick of the BS, are still in this thread trying to incite changes. What I have gathered thus far is this:

 

There is too much feedback.

 

 

Then make a system so the good stuff rises to the top. Have mods message topics, like I said, to staff members. You then look at them and discuss them with the team. Then respond to the mod and say "we read it, here is what we think", so they can relay that info to us. You then take your favorite topic/suggestion and put it in the announcements forums pinned with a detailed post about why something is the way it is or how it needs to change. You could even do a video response to post along with the text. If you create a system, it will make your job easier. But I really doubt the "too much feedback" is really the issue. But I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

Edited September 19, 2013 by theGreatZamboni

[WeissKreuz]

Lol it's like they equate the design council to the Illuminati or some secret organization that has tight reigns on what's done in warframe. They constantly blame us and single us out as the root cause of failure in warframe.

Sigh. I think they should have design council weekend and give all players access to the design council just for a couple days to see what really is (or isn't) going on.

 I think _all_ players should have the right to view it. Voting is another matter. As we've all stated, it's mostly votes on names of things, or what gun they already designed gets added first. It's silly not to share that with everyone.

[theGreatZamboni]

The issue is more that %99 of the time the login rewards pointless. Like item xp. How often to you log in with out rank 30 gear? I don't want to switch to unranked gear every time I log out just for the login reward to matter. It's not that the rewards are redundant, it's that they rarely ever matter.

 

Exactly the issue.

[Humongous_Koi]

You are not listening. It is not making us happy. I would rather DE put out a proper tutorial and explain the game better so new comers are not maligned further, then have 300 new weapons and tilesets. We want core changes, not content. You can do both, but every update adds more broken crap to the "fix later" pile.

Many bugs that new players would overlook, but old players would look into, stare into the broken pile, and blow it over proportion, and say that it majorly alters gameplay. I believe that many veterans want to see something different with the game, not necessarily fixing it, so they make a problem from it so it can change. Like people that want to remove stamina, remove the Conclaves, and those that refuse to make Orokin Derelict keys to find Mutagen Mass. The feedback is being listened to though

 

My friend, recently introduced, is having a blast playing the game. He tells me about the game whenever we see each other, and he loves it. He doesn't care about the problems because he's new to the game, and considerate enough to understand how companies can't keep every single promise they make.

[TunaMayo]

I respect that you guys want this game to keep its retention, but our developers have to keep pushing out content to keep old players happy, which is not easy in the very least. They're doing their best to keep old players playing and spending money, but it would be much easier to attract new players, have them spend money, and quit the game. A lot of veteran players want to keep playing, but do so by giving the bottom-of-the-barrel feedback and hope for immediate changes, and they become more angry at the guys developing their favorite game because they're impatient, very open because they're just facing a screen, and have very "diverse" vocabulary. (Remember that these guys are a small portion of the community) Also consider their age, behavior development, and knowledge of work.

 

Also imagine the amount of people who play the game that browse the forum, I imagine it would be very small.

 

Also take note that 2 months isn't a very large amount of time. More players would join the game than quit, which is considered growing.

 

 

Those of us who err on the side of a large amount of game time, or who might consider ourselves Warframe veterans, are who a large proportion of what this diminishing community consists of.

 

For weeks and months we have been saying that we don't want more content as we just burn through it. We want game changers, that's what eventually got the armour rework and element rework looked at. But a huge one is end game.

 

Lack of end game is what causes the burn-out sensation that I know many many warframe players have experienced and if not addressed, this simply will be the death of warframe. As DE simply cannot push out content at the rate we burn through it, their acknowledgement of this can be visibly seen in update 10 with artificial grind introduced (mutagens behind a grind wall, double forma costs, half T3 void credit rewards, increase in credit demand, increased mutagen mass requirements, Mag Prime being virtually inaccessible).

 

To put it simply we don't care for new content all that much, it is nice for a week and that is about it. It is the fundamental aspects of the game that need addressing and would be most appreciated. See to end game, see to diminishing rewards, see to the fact that staying longer in survival and defence missions starts to lead to less mods and materials being dropped (extremely counter intuitive), see to the fact that end of mission rewards in defence and survival missions do not get better with time, see to the fact that secondaries outclass primaries, see to the fact that melee weapons are not a viable form of dealing damage, see to the fact that warframes are imbalanced.

 

Before you put the icing on your cake you have to make sure the dough is cooked or the whole dessert is ruined.

 

Please see my quoted post for what the long-term players really want.

 

Also I'd like to point out that you provide 0 facts for your statements. You have no proof that the population of the game is growing as a whole or that veterans just want new content to burn through. You just have to look at Steam Concurrent Players to see that Warframe has consistently suffered from spikes of players, with the minimum concurrent players declining with each update.

 

I have seen players who have invested in the game simply give up and go due to lack of compulsion to play anymore or getting tired of the games direction. 

I have seen my friends list diminish from a consistent online 50-100 to struggling to reach the 10 mark.

I have seen my clan go from 150-200 regular players to less than 30.

 

All i see day in day out in Clan Chat, Council Chat and Region Chat is complaints and suggestions about the game that DO NOT INVOLVE EXTRA CONTENT. Everyone appears to want game changers. These are people in game, not hovering in the forums, who would actively prefer to spend their time suggesting improvements for the game rather than playing it as it seems to be a better use of their time.

[Mak_Gohae]

The issue is more that %99 of the time the login rewards pointless. Like item xp. How often to you log in with out rank 30 gear? I don't want to switch to unranked gear every time I log out just for the login reward to matter. It's not that the rewards are redundant, it's that they rarely ever matter.

 

Dude if you have everything at 30 and own most things..... i think it's pretty obvious that most of the rewards are not going to matter.

At this point only the discounts, the forma, and orokin matters and that stuff isnt to just be freely handed to you.

Edited September 19, 2013 by Mak_Gohae

[Firetempest]

I'm at the point with WR like I was with the end of Eve online. Just log for the daily reward or in eve the training queue. I want to enjoy it, but I'm one of those 500 some odd hour players. who haven't seen much difference since the first 100 hours. But making Grineer go splat is fun. Its lasted longer than most games with a actual story just playing with the most basic of emotions, rip and tear.

Some of us just need to learn to take a break. But not all of us are at that point, plenty of new people dealing with the same things we dealt with every update. Whats what really is new, just something new to get mad at. Then get used to it. Then get mad at. Then get used to it. With rough diamonds in-between. I think warframe just got too big too fast. And for a company never doing this kind of platform before. Well, I guess its alright. A little flaily at times.. but I see progress. Like golem, or whatever it's called.

[theGreatZamboni]

Many bugs that new players would overlook, but old players would look into, stare into the broken pile, and blow it over proportion, and say that it majorly alters gameplay. I believe that many veterans want to see something different with the game, not necessarily fixing it, so they make a problem from it so it can change. Like people that want to remove stamina, remove the Conclaves, and those that refuse to make Orokin Derelict keys to find Mutagen Mass. The feedback is being listened to though

 

My friend, recently introduced, is having a blast playing the game. He tells me about the game whenever we see each other, and he loves it. He doesn't care about the problems because he's new to the game, and considerate enough to understand how companies can't keep every single promise they make.

 

Good for you. But have you been reading this thread? Some of the most prominent people are parroting the same things I am saying. You know why? Because they are THE veterans. When you have the top 12~ contributors quantity/quality wise saying the same thing, pretty sure you can make the assumption they are on to something.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

I mean crap. They just released two new concept art pieces of MORE useless melee weapons and guns for us to use to the Design Council.

 

Instead of releasing new concept art for new content they should release new information on the things that should be fixed.

Concept artists do concept art. They don't fix bugs. Modellers don't generally fix bugs (except modelling bugs - though I'm sure they're hard at work fixing the syandanas tendency to clip through certain male warframe backs just like how they fixed the uru being uncolorable) either.

I'd definitely like DE to give us a hit list of bugs they're squashing and all (Hot topic 9/19 - The great bughunt!), but stop acting like merely releasing concept art for new content is slowing down bugfixing. It isn't. The guys who make concept art most assuredly don't have the skills to handle bugfixing, just like the bugfixers probably can't make some smexy concept art.

[[DE]Steve]

You completely dodged the point. Is someone saying "NJ THIS IS THE BEST YOU CAN DO! helpful when compared to "The art direction is great, but you are making the game more of a pointless grind through not improving player-framing/gamemodes to instill a sense of accomplishment in the player besides the drops themselves. Also adding more weapons does not extend playtime, unless you are willing to play the same un-fun gamemodes."

 

Because the latter comment and ones like it permeate these forums and go ignored.

Sorry to dodge:

Game mode wise - totally agree: Survival in U10 in an attempt to improve the game mode situation and evidence we feel the same way. New ones coming (Die Counter Intel!). Pointless grind (giving Mastery Ranks something more interesting) is an issue - I'd argue all games of progression have this problem to varying degrees, but context matters for sure.

[GottFaust]

Concept artists do concept art. They don't fix bugs. Modellers don't generally fix bugs (except modelling bugs - though I'm sure they're hard at work fixing the syandanas tendency to clip through certain male warframe backs just like how they fixed the uru being uncolorable) either.

I'd definitely like DE to give us a hit list of bugs they're squashing and all (Hot topic 9/19 - The great bughunt!), but stop acting like merely releasing concept art for new content is slowing down bugfixing. It isn't. The guys who make concept art most assuredly don't have the skills to handle bugfixing, just like the bugfixers probably can't make some smexy concept art.

Oh my, someone who understands that artists, level designers, and support staff can't code bugfixes!

[theGreatZamboni]

Concept artists do concept art. They don't fix bugs. Modellers don't generally fix bugs (except modelling bugs - though I'm sure they're hard at work fixing the syandanas tendency to clip through certain male warframe backs just like how they fixed the uru being uncolorable) either.

I'd definitely like DE to give us a hit list of bugs they're squashing and all (Hot topic 9/19 - The great bughunt!), but stop acting like merely releasing concept art for new content is slowing down bugfixing. It isn't. The guys who make concept art most assuredly don't have the skills to handle bugfixing, just like the bugfixers probably can't make some smexy concept art.

 

You are correct. But can you agree more content just makes the foundations more uneasy?

[WeissKreuz]

Dude if you have everything at 30 and own most things..... i think it's pretty obvious that less of the rewards are not going to matter.

At this point only the discounts, the forma, and orokin matters and that stuff isnt to just be freely handed to you.

 

But I don't! Take the Machete for example. I Hate it. Every one.. HATES... the machete. I just think it would be nice if I could apply that free affinity to gear I never, ever, ever, ever want to run with in gamee.

[GottFaust]

You are correct. But can you agree more content just makes the foundations more uneasy?

Not when said content developers aren't the same ones who are fixing the bugs. It's a parallel development setup. Most of the bugs are in the code, and people who put together weapon concepts, models, textures, and tables can't necessarily fix the bugs in the underlying code that makes it all run.

[RejectionOfFate]

I myself am taking a break from Warframe. After a few games on U10, I decided I would log off and examine the forums.

Not very surprised, there was a literal s---storm of complaints, flames, hate threads, etc.

 

I am going to log in every weekend or so, just to see how things are coming along. I wish You the best of luck for the launch on 11/15/13, Steve.

 

I love this game, and I love this community, for the most part. I want it to succeed. Until the updates and errors are fixed and stabilized though...

Break time.

 

PS: oHai Weiss~

[Mak_Gohae]

But I don't! Take the Machete for example. I Hate it. Every one.. HATES... the machete. I just think it would be nice if I could apply that free affinity to gear I never, ever, ever, ever want to run with in gamee.

 

Pretty sure the game will continue to pop out weapons so that the mastery of a weapon you hate is not going to matter.

[WeissKreuz]

I myself am taking a break from Warframe. After a few games on U10, I decided I would log off and examine the forums.

Not very surprised, there was a literal s---storm of complaints, flames, hate threads, etc.

 

I am going to log in every weekend or so, just to see how things are coming along. I wish You the best of luck for the launch on 11/15/13, Steve.

 

I love this game, and I love this community, for the most part. I want it to succeed. Until the updates and errors are fixed and stabilized though...

Break time.

 

PS: oHai Weiss~

 

Hey buddy :)

[WeissKreuz]

Pretty sure the game will continue to pop out weapons so that the mastery of a weapon you hate is not going to matter.

 

Wait. So you're answer is to just add more content? Did you read any of this thread?

[Mak_Gohae]

Wait. So you're answer is to just add more content? Did you read any of this thread?

 

No, my answer is that if you are really THAT WORRIED about the mastery of a weapon you dont care to level i am sure that this missing mastery wont matter because they will add more content at some point.

 

The actually real question here is...... do you really need that mastery right now? There are enough weapons in the game where this specific weapon that you dont like doesnt need to be ranked up for you to reach any mastery level.

[GottFaust]

Wait. So you're answer is to just add more content? Did you read any of this thread?

I love how people can't get it into their heads that not everyone at DE can fix code bugs. In fact I'm willing to bet that very, very few of them actually can.

People who can put together a gun don't necessarily have to code anything. They make concept art, then a model, then effects, then they grab a bunch of pre-created asstes and parameters and assemble them into a weapon.

Do you honestly think that every single automatic gun is coded differently? Word to the wise: they're not. They select the "automatic weapon" template with underlying code already in place and assign assets and numerical values to it. The vast majority of the employees of any game development company never actually look at the code, let alone understand it well enough to fix bugs in it.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

You are correct. But can you agree more content just makes the foundations more uneasy?

Yes and no. It kind of depends on the specific kind of content.

For instance, like I said before and have seen others in this thread mention, a big problem is lack of context for our actions. What's the point of murdering these grineer? What impact are we making on the gameworld as space ninjas?

Content that shows us the context of why we're fighting and what impact we're having would, IMO, shore up the foundations rather than render it shakier.

It's kind of frustrating because what background content we do have is really cool. We've got bucketloads of atmosphere, furthered by the art design. We've got the decaying grineer empire, pushing outward like all good empires in an attempt to distract from issues at home. We've got the corpus, reluctant allies and sometimes enemies of the grineer, sort of a cross between a medieval guild and a religious cult. We've got the infested, a horrible space plague slowly expanding from the dark corners of the solar system. We've got Lotus. Who is she? Does she really have our best interests at heart? For that matter, who are we? Space ninjas, sure, but what does that mean? What's our society like? (LFG Golem runs ploz? Do Tenno really communicate with chatboxes? :p) What's the rest of the system like? What was the collapse? Who were the Orokin? What is Lotus doing with all those towers we capture? The ground here for storytelling is immensely fertile but thus far it's mostly lying fallow. And that's a mistake, I think. Storytelling helps give players context and invests them more fully in the world. Suddenly that grineer extermination mission isn't just "yawn, farming for blaze", it's you fighting desperately against a platoon of grineer marines while trapped in this nightmare zone of diminishing health and low ammo as you try to sting the mighty grineer empire in just the right place to weaken them.

But that's just from a background/lore perspective.

From a gameplay perspective, I think there's a problem in that the community is schizophrenic in what it wants. Everyone generally agrees we need an "endgame", but nobody can articulate quite what that is. I totally see where DE's coming from with this. It's a shooter, at the core you shoot things. Warframe really isn't going to get very far away from that, I doubt. Most of the endgame suggestions I see are unworkable stuff like twenty person raids and suchlike, with a few good ideas (emergent territory control mechanics to let Tenno help generate their own lore and objectives? That was probably the best one I can think of.) mixed in.

I mean, people clamored for survival forever and ever, pushing that as a solution to the endgame issue... But now that we have it, the cries for an endgame haven't diminished in the least. It's like, what sort of endgame can DE really do? People want "game changers", but it's easy to say but hard to imagine. There have been good ideas, make no mistake, but a lot of the time people just ask for game changers in a general sense and leave it at that, without making clear what exactly they want.

[Psyked]

developers have to keep pushing out content to keep old players happy

I'm not sure I can agree with that. What pretty much every veteran I know actually wants is the basics to be refined, or reworked entirely. New content helps for about 3 days to maybe a week and then it's old content again.

 

it would be much easier to attract new players

But obviously it is not.

For one thing, new players have tons of so called content to play through, so why don't they stick around?

Because all they see is that there's some planets with missions that you clear and then you grind materials for weapons so you can grind more materials for more weapons etc. pp., and then it hits them that they have no idea why they are actually doing this.

Yes, for fun obviously, but in the bigger picture?

What's the purpose? There's still basically no lore worth mentioning so they don't know why they do what they do. There's the point where they'll have cleared all the content there is and the only thing left for them to do is grind all the weapons, rank up in mastery for no reason other than to unlock ridicuously expensive clantech.

And for a lack of involvement, because all they did was burn through the content, they quit, most likely without ever spending a single cent.

There's so much this game could improve on. The skills working towards the gunplay instead of against it for example, melee being a mindnumbingly boring and useless task, the maptiles, while pretty to look at, being nothing but background noise after a while (spoiler, making us slow won't fix that, making combat engaging would), and so on.

But instead of working on the base, on what could make this game more fun in the long term, we get content.

Mods that bring up blocking from useless to "you seriously expect me to waste a slot for that"-kind of useless.

We get bandaids that kind of stitch Warframe together for a week and then another and another, but all this is not going to help in the long run. There needs to be a shift of focus and it needs to be soon.

[Khranitel]

Steve,

Give us interesting enemies to fight with. Intelligent, unpredictable, fearsome.

You can keep your grind, droptables, rng, paywalls, lore, bugs, half-assed content and all that S#&$.

But give us interesting enemies. Return our will to fight.

This will keep this game afloat for some months, thus giving you time to fix it. This will ensure cash-flow from beginner-to-middle players wanting new stuff to kill those foes. Because the battle will be fascinating by itself.

This is your endgame. The game that is interesting to play will never ends.

[Kinperor]

Steve, I hear you guys at DE say that you are over whelmed. (And sometimes, we can see it, with Sheldon) 

 

Isn't it an option to hire new people? 

 

I don't know, I'm not in your shoes (or your employer's), but I think you guys could use some new blood. How many people work on Warframe right now, not counting the volunteers? 20? 30? 40 maybe? 

 

I heard Riot had 500-something employees, and their updates gets better all the time (they aren't perfect, but they're trying hard). Now, obviously they aren't in the same situation (at all) and you guys don't need 500 right now, but I can't help but feel that you have too little hands on deck to help with the game. It would certainly help bug fixing and development. You have a lot of players to cater to, a bigger team makes sense to me.