Increase the 90 Riven Limit

[ChaoticEdge]

1 minute ago, IceColdHawk said:

What do you mean we have a limit of 90 rivens? That's news to me o.O

[IspanoLFW]

36 minutes ago, Reifnir said:

One of the saddest excuses in existence. You don't even need to know any programming, just basic math and some common sense to see that whatever reason DE had for imposing this limit it's anything BUT storage space issues.  

We can have hundreds of warframe slots filled with hundreds of warframes, each with its own selection of mods, regalia, ephemeras and other cosmetics, colors for each part, level, polarities, abilities (affected by mods), basic stats (also affected by mods) and a ton more stuff I just can't remember off the top of my head. 

We can have a cubic buttload of Companions and Weapons, too, leveled, modded and colored however the Hek we want. 

Lastly, we can have our Orbiter space, and more importantly - rooms upon rooms in our Dojos, filled with complex decorations each and every one of which can be positioned in three-dimensional space and rotated freely along three 360° axes. 

...Unless every single Riven Mod hides a data equivalent of the Great Library of Alexandria carefully steganographied into its mod illustration, i highly doubt "storage space shortage" was, is or ever will be a valid reason to limit their numbers. 

Oh, goodie, another person who assumed the issue is "storage space." Please read the whole thing next time.

[GunRaptor9000]

3 minutes ago, IspanoLFW said:

Oh, goodie, another person who assumed the issue is "storage space." Please read the whole thing next time.

IIRC, I recently saw an interview where one of the DE crew....I can't remember who....was talking with one of the partners, and the topic of Riven Capacity came up.

And again, IIRC, and I'm quite sure I do, he mentioned how the limit was originally for "database issues."  He then noted how their capability to facilitate rivens was proven, and that removing the limit was indeed possible.

Sadly, I can't find the source....I thought it was Mogamu, but I don't think it was him....I think the subject was Railjack and stuff, though.....it would be nice if I could find the interview, but that's all beside the point. 

So, unless you have insight on DE's actual network structure and needs, I really am not trusting anything you're saying at this point.

[GunRaptor9000]

3 minutes ago, GunRaptor9000 said:

IIRC, I recently saw an interview where one of the DE crew....I can't remember who....was talking with one of the partners, and the topic of Riven Capacity came up.

And again, IIRC, and I'm quite sure I do, he mentioned how the limit was originally for "database issues."  He then noted how their capability to facilitate rivens was proven, and that removing the limit was indeed possible.

Sadly, I can't find the source....I thought it was Mogamu, but I don't think it was him....I think the subject was Railjack and stuff, though.....it would be nice if I could find the interview, but that's all beside the point. 

So, unless you have insight on DE's actual network structure and needs, I really am not trusting anything you're saying at this point.

Found it, it was [DE]Scott

 

[IspanoLFW]

5 minutes ago, GunRaptor9000 said:

IIRC, I recently saw an interview where one of the DE crew....I can't remember who....was talking with one of the partners, and the topic of Riven Capacity came up.

And again, IIRC, and I'm quite sure I do, he mentioned how the limit was originally for "database issues."  He then noted how their capability to facilitate rivens was proven, and that removing the limit was indeed possible.

Sadly, I can't find the source....I thought it was Mogamu, but I don't think it was him....I think the subject was Railjack and stuff, though.....it would be nice if I could find the interview, but that's all beside the point. 

So, unless you have insight on DE's actual network structure and needs, I really am not trusting anything you're saying at this point.

I mean, do you know what "database issues" entails? Generally space is not the issue. And I never said it wasn't possible, It's just when these types of complaints come up, every complains about storage space, because storage is cheap right? Well it really IS cheap. The problem becomes I/O, ie input/output. Which a database is already doing a lot of, and with the exponentially larger size of Riven compared to any other entry, this drastically increases that I/O load. It also increases the amount of load over the network. 1 Riven, or even 90 for one person might seem small at first... but then how many players does this game have?

So, again, it's never really been about the physical space required on storage.

Also, watched the video. When he talks about more slots, pretty much everytime he says they could proably increase it he mentions "depending on the database" basically. Not storage space. The big issue with databases of large sizes is NOT the size or storage capacity. It's access times and I/O.

So, again, I never once said it's not possible. Just that what people THINK the problem is, is simply wrong.

[GunRaptor9000]

@[DE]ScottP I don't mean to get you into something, as you're an awesome guy from what I can tell, but could you please chime in on this matter?

I mean, you're right here...and please don't feel pressured to contribute to this thread, but my girlfriend is finishing the chicken soup we made for dinner while going on and on about the implications of the riven limit.  @[DE]ScottP.....please help 😛 

@gallantblues, if you care to share some of your points....you're making very good ones and I think I'll leave it to you to share with those in the thread....

[gallantblues]

Hi everyone! While I'm enjoying being a silent character (such mystery, many drama. wow.) I thought I'd jump in to make a few points.

First off, just to clarify, the stress of the riven limit for me is mainly an issue of decision fatigue plus loss of fun, value, and opportunity in the game. The riven limit makes me do work of making decisions. And honestly? That's not the kind of work I'm looking for in a video game. I have 91 (eek) possibly valuable, unique mods that I now have to decide what to do with. Because of this dynamic I feel like I lose opportunity to experiment with rivens and my rivens are less valuable, which leads to less fun.

I'm slightly more into the trading/economy side of the game then @GunRaptor9000 is. Not just trading but overall trying to make good use of my resources in the game. Rivens on one hand can be valuable, but that value is undermined by the limit on how many we can hold. The riven limit puts riven space at an extreme premium (not to mention that we buy it with plat), thus overly incentivizes hanging on to valuable rivens and ditching less valuable ones, which are usually for less popular weapons. Warframe is a game that with its myriad of weapons, frame, and mod options creates tons of possibilities for builds. Yet at the high end of equipment the riven limit undermines possibilities. The value of holding rivens also makes less desirable rivens much less valuable and desirable rivens even more valuable. Players want to avoid taking on more "trash" rivens while also wanting to use their limited spots to hold the best rivens they can.

I don't necessarily think the riven limit should be entirely lifted. Decisions about resource management are a core part of many games including Warframe and decisons about storage space could be fun if they were less punishing. The riven limit as is, however, feels out of line with the rest of the game and the customer friendly ethos of DE as a whole. As Warframe grows (how many weapons have been added to the game since the riven limit was set?) I hope DE is able to maintain the things I love about the game- developing builds, trading, competing with friends over damage numbers- in a way that keeps the game fun. I really see at least increasing the riven limit as part of that and hope that even if there are technical challenges DE is able to overcome them.

Ps. DE you made a fairy themed option for me to play in a FPS like MMO. I love you forever. 

 

[Psykhe27]

Please, DE only cares about whether or not you buy fashion crap or prime vaults.

[Reifnir]

7 hours ago, IspanoLFW said:

Which a database is already doing a lot of, and with the exponentially larger size of Riven compared to any other entry

Again, how exactly is that even a plausible excuse?

Yes, Rivens (when compared to a normal mod) would generate somewhat more reads/writes. But only that. Again, a single warframe is likely to do many times more than that - and yet, things like Reddit threads "I built 100 Oberons" exist. So a hundred Oberons, each of which you can re-paint and re-mod every day are less of an issue than 100 Riven Mods? Really? 

[FlusteredFerret]

12 hours ago, GunRaptor9000 said:

DE, I have many words of praise for you.  You are the best gaming company out there.  You have made my favorite video game.  You monetize in very un-pushy and even pleasant ways....and as such I have spent more on your one game than I have spent on any entire franchise.  You're pretty awesome all around.  Which is why I'm so glad that almost 600 days ago, my girlfriend FORCED me to download your game.

It's worth noting that around the time PoE came out, my girlfriend and I were about three years into our relationship, and at the time we were in a long-distance relationship for professional, medical, and family reasons.  Though we kept up with each other by playing many video games together, we had a divide in where our interests lay; I was an FPS and action gamer, and she was into MMORPGs.  Warframe was a fantastic middle ground, and we have stayed active in the game ever since, with rarely so much as a missed login.

But along the way, with daily sorties and a surplus of plat from buying Prime Access as what we jokingly called our "date night fund," we started to acquire more and more riven mods.  As I was more adamant about doing the daily sortie and looking for deals on rivens I liked, I approached 90 much faster.  No problem, my girlfriend will just get my runoff.  Well, as time went on, she too started to approach the 90 riven limit, so we started giving less loved ones away to friends, but even that started to run dry. Now once again living together, as we both hit the dreaded 91 rivens, we had to only keep the ones we actually forma-ed weapons for.....and so on.  This eventually started to take away from the fun of Warframe, due to the stress that just logging in caused her.

So, here we are now, where I still want to play Warframe with her, because it's a great time and we have many, many fun memories playing it together, but it's hard for her to bring herself to start up the game because she hates having to deal with the [seemingly arbitrary to players] 90 riven limit.  And while our relationship is obviously still strong, it just leaves both of us very upset that something that is meant to enhance both of our favorite game, actually ends up making it an exercise in anxiety.  While riven collecting is fun in and of itself, it's simply the limit you place for "database storage reasons," the anxiety it causes for her (and even for me) when there are hundreds of awesome weapons in this game just makes the entire experience of Warframe less fun, and for her....simply not fun.  While expanding the riven limit would be a nice temporary fix, without eliminating the limit we'll be right back to the same place in a matter of months.

DE, you made a game with literally hundreds of amazing and unique weapons.  Then you released these rivens with a 90-riven cap for database reasons....fair, sure, but then people just started making alt accounts to store their surplus rivens.  She and I don't want to deal with multiple accounts, and therefore we're placed into a position of just getting fed up.  In fact, it was due to this issue that we haven't bothered getting Prime Access this time around...because of rivens, and the 90 riven limit.  So, in summary, in this situation, you're losing out on customers and you're saving no database space in the larger scheme, and slowly but surely Warframe is becoming the game that we "used to play together."

So, DE, while our relationship is actually totally fine, I'm not really okay with Warframe slipping into a thing she and I "used to do together."

Lift the riven mod limit, please.

If you're happy to finance the new hardware DE would need in order to do this, I'm sure they'd be happy to accommodate your request. 

Actually, even if you did they probably wouldn't, because...get this...YOU'RE NOT MEANT TO HAVE RIVENS FOR EVERYTHING!

 

Shocking thought, I know...

 

P.S.

 

DEVS DON'T READ GENERAL DISCUSSION

 

Thought you should know.

 

Edited June 1, 2019 by FlusteredFerret

[FlusteredFerret]

47 minutes ago, Reifnir said:

Again, how exactly is that even a plausible excuse?

Yes, Rivens (when compared to a normal mod) would generate somewhat more reads/writes. But only that. Again, a single warframe is likely to do many times more than that - and yet, things like Reddit threads "I built 100 Oberons" exist. So a hundred Oberons, each of which you can re-paint and re-mod every day are less of an issue than 100 Riven Mods? Really? 

Because everything you've described uses things that have standard values, or change by set values, whereas rivens are utterly RNG dependent.

[IspanoLFW]

7 hours ago, Reifnir said:

Again, how exactly is that even a plausible excuse?

Yes, Rivens (when compared to a normal mod) would generate somewhat more reads/writes. But only that. Again, a single warframe is likely to do many times more than that - and yet, things like Reddit threads "I built 100 Oberons" exist. So a hundred Oberons, each of which you can re-paint and re-mod every day are less of an issue than 100 Riven Mods? Really? 

I mean, it's your choice to believe me or not. You're very unlikely to get exact details from DE, sure they may say one of these days, but still unlikely. As someone else said, Riven data is mostly random for each mod. With a frame, like your example, the database entry for your inventory is relatriely small, it can link back to a singular database for pretty much ever item/color/mod you put on it. But with a Riven, most of the data has to be stored within the entry itself, because it's as stated, random. This includes not only the stats/MR/etc, but the challenge to unlock it as well.

And as I stated, generally the issue with databases is not one of not enough space. It's access times and such. Even more so the more people are accessing it.

[Spookmineer]

I've had bad luck with getting rid of rivens, got rid of twin gremlins a month before the prisma version was released and got rid of a glaxion a few months back, etc.

I keep holding on to a lot of melee rivens because we have no idea how the upcoming changes will impact the weapons. Who knows, fang might turn out to be more than ok.

Being at max capacity, I'd hate to have to get rid of these rivens only to find out I ditched promising ones, only because of an arbitrary cap.

[zoffmode]

I don't really mind it either way but 90 riven limit also encourages people to sell or reroll their unused rivens which increases supply so rivens are cheaper. Hoarding is not healthy for any economy.

[Spookmineer]

But the slots aren't for free either. Can't even sell the rivens for crap weapons, so they get dissolved.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

Dear OP, assuming that just because you and your gf buy PA's DE can cover all the costs to make your request possible is a bit of a stretch imo. For starters, PA is not mandatory, and many players have never bought a single plat but instead earned them. Because of that DE's sales can be somewhat unpredictable and they must plan very carefully their investments.

So ok, let's make the limit larger and larger for the hoarders. What will happen when there's a need to revert the limit and decrease it? And what makes you believe that just because you support the game, as many do, they are supposed to cater towards you personal wants? What's to say DE should invest in more rivens and not in a bigger team, bigger and better content? Last I checked all the PA's I bought didn't come with an invitation for me to go to any dev meeting and have any say on what they should do with my money. We pay them because we believe in them to expand the game in the best possible way for everyone, not what some of us believe should be done.

We invest on their expertise and better judgement, so they can deliver us a better entertainment product. And if I ever don't agree, don't like where it's headed/what it has to offer, I can vote with my wallet without shoving that fact on them. I might submit some impartial feedback, but that's about it, and I must accept that sometimes I cannot get what I want, nor do I need to know I can't have it.

Edited June 1, 2019 by (PS4)Hikuro-93

[IspanoLFW]

32 minutes ago, (PS4)Hikuro-93 said:

Dear OP, assuming that just because you and your gf buy PA's DE can cover all the costs to make your request possible is a bit of a stretch imo. For starters, PA is not mandatory, and many players have never bought a single plat but instead earned them. Because of that DE's sales can be somewhat unpredictable and they must plan very carefully their investments.

So ok, let's make the limit larger and larger for the hoarders. What will happen when there's a need to revert the limit and decrease it? And what makes you believe that just because you support the game, as many do, they are supposed to cater towards you personal wants? What's to say DE should invest in more rivens and not in a bigger team, bigger and better content? Last I checked all the PA's I bought didn't come with an invitation for me to go to any dev meeting and have any say on what they should do with my money. We pay them because we believe in them to expand the game in the best possible way for everyone, not what some of us believe should be done.

We invest on their expertise and better judgement, so they can deliver us a better entertainment product. And if I ever don't agree, don't like where it's headed/what it has to offer, I can vote with my wallet without shoving that fact on them. I might submit some impartial feedback, but that's about it, and I must accept that sometimes I cannot get what I want, nor do I need to know I can't have it.

All traded plat in game was bought by someone. Some players never buying plat but "earning" it, that plat is still bought from DE by someone. May not seem to matter, but it's actually an important point.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

1 minute ago, IspanoLFW said:

All traded plat in game was bought by someone. Some players never buying plat but "earning" it, that plat is still bought from DE by someone. May not seem to matter, but it's actually an important point.

Yes, that is correct.. What I meant is that not all of us need to contribute, there isn't anything like a subscription or mandatory price tagto the game, and that a product that doesn't appeal to the majority of the plat buyer group also means less plat within the game circling around. Some buy it to support, other to advance faster, others to loook better and for some timed exclusivity, but it all boils down to wether it's worthy to spend money on or not. And that affects the economy even if we can't really see it.

And then there's the DE given plat from all sorts of prizes, but I wouldn't count it as an actual economy factor, tbh.

[ThumpumGood]

No. The Riven Mob has enough spaces to screw us over with.

[GunRaptor9000]

The point isn't about buying and selling rivens.

It's about the riven limit making normal gameplay unpleasant.

Having to deal with a mere 90 riven limit when I am a weapons focused player is punishing.

And I do actually earn most of my rivens, rather than buy.

I don't care about the losers who are so unsuccessful in their irl careers that they bully people in a video game to take their Chuck E Cheese tokens to hoard forever.

I just want to enjoy the game with my girlfriend and friends and not have to choose which weapon that I've invested said Chuck E Cheese tokens into via forma to ruin because I can't do certain content (Sorties) if I have too many of them.

DE, I'm sitting here telling you I want to spend plat that I actually paid for to buy more riven slots so that I can have a better gaming experience.  That's it.  Stop punishing players like me who want to give you actual money.

[Oreades]

22 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

What do you mean we have a limit of 90 rivens? That's news to me o.O

Clearly you haven't run a Sortie since the last Twitch Riven drop.

22 hours ago, ChaoticEdge said:

Most likely one from the Sortie overcap and one from either a twitch drop or their login reward, but I think that's 3 rivens tho I suppose they could have unveiled/deleted one. 

 

Edited June 2, 2019 by Oreades

[SirSnarplordIV]

Wait, you guys have 90 rivens? I'm lucky if I don't get an Anasa...

[ThumpumGood]

3 minutes ago, SirSnarplordIV said:

Wait, you guys have 90 rivens? I'm lucky if I don't get an Anasa...

I've had 90+ rivens but I transmute all of the trash ones to try and get better ones.

Still, 90 slots isnt enough for these guys? There's maybe 30 -40 weapons that people actually use. Add more slots? I dont think so.

[GunRaptor9000]

48 minutes ago, ThumpumGood said:

I've had 90+ rivens but I transmute all of the trash ones to try and get better ones.

Still, 90 slots isnt enough for these guys? There's maybe 30 -40 weapons that people actually use. Add more slots? I dont think so.

Some of us like to use non-meta weapons, and try to make them viable with rivens.

With several hundred weapons available, and I own EVERY weapon in my inventory, actively available, I can't be forced to use the Amprex or Rubico Prime every time I play.  Besides, isn't that what the riven system was originally meant to do in the first place?  I like my Karak Wraith, and I want space for TWO rivens for it.  Why?  BECAUSE I LIKE THE KARAK WRAITH IN CONCEPT, AND SHOULDN'T BE PUNISHED FOR IT!

Edited June 2, 2019 by GunRaptor9000

[ThumpumGood]

1 minute ago, GunRaptor9000 said:

Some of us like to use non-meta weapons, and try to make them viable with rivens.

With several hundred weapons available, and I own EVERY weapon in my inventory, actively available, I can't be forced to use the Amprex or Rubico Prime every time I play.  Besides, isn't that what the riven system was originally meant to do in the first place?  I like my Karak Wraith, and I want space for TWO rivens for it.  Why?  BECAUSE I LIKE THE KARAK WRAITH IN CONCEPT, AND SHOULDN'T BE PUNISHED FOR IT!

So do I. That's why I said 30-40 instead of 10.