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GunRaptor9000

Increase the 90 Riven Limit

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22 minutes ago, ArisaSensei said:

Thank you for the good explanation!

That sounds like some pretty bad coding, since the rest of the inventory of players other than equipped items and gear wheel shouldn't impact what's needed for a mission. Hopefully they find a good way to fix that in the future then. Still, hopefully this topic will get seen and digital extremes will find some way to fix it!

I don't think that's an entirely correct recollection.

Principally, it's a database kind of issue. Storage is part of the issue, as the "riven" is is just an "entry" (for want of a better word) in a table. But accessing said entries is also an issue.

The two are kinda mutual. As storage goes up, you typically have more entries. Rivens, increase storage by quite some degree as ascertained from the Devs.

The more things you have, the more times you hit the database. I can't recall how DE store the riven per se, but as a worst case example, your one riven points to however many mod skills it contains, or even worse, every variation it may be.

So (as an example), when you open up your Riven screen, you are sending a bunch of requests for all variations of your Rivens. It might seem like it's just '90' to you, but in the background you could end up with many hundreds of calls each of which the server needs to do something with.

This is where you would get the "issue" loading, as the clients sync with host, host must know what the clients have so that it can replicate. It's not the end of the world by any means. But it is slow; since every Riven is essentially a unique item that is individually called from the server.

There is no easy solution for it other than to store Rivens locally, which would be a cheating nightmare. Steve did mention that there was a new compression implementation they could use that would help the storage aspect, but that it's not stuck any time they've tried to implement it.

That's the best TL;DR i got. 

Hopefully, this puts some of those "DE don't care" statements to rest. Not entirely sure why some people immediately assume maliciousness when something they want isn't acted on immediately. 

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40 minutes ago, ArisaSensei said:

I'm very well aware it's meaningless, it's just a game after all, I just couldn't think of a more apt descriptor when I posted the topic I still think it's mean to get snarked randomly for no good reason

You are perfectly right but many people around here get triggered by such meaningless things :). Just ignore it.

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They should. They are adding new weapons every update and they are not allowing players to keep increasing number of rivens for increasing number of weapons which doesn't make sense.

And if you ask who actually use all 90 meaningful rivens? You have 1 here.

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I'm probably in the minority with my opinion judging from the replies here. But I really don't see a need for such negativity. I'm nowhere near the riven limit but I can see where OP is coming from. I'll try to address each point in general:

"You don't need that many rivens" well that's reflected all around us in life. No one needs a Ferrari or a Rolex or 20 pairs of shoes or a collection of bottle caps. But that's what people get and who are we to say otherwise, if they do so without detriment to others? The same goes for getting more rivens. 

"He called himself an endgame player" I can see why that would be distasteful but that doesn't invalidate his points.

"It's to encourage people to sell" If that were true, DE should first get rid of transmutation. And a better trading system is sorely needed... 

1 hour ago, Helch0rn said:

I think it was Glen that explained it in one of his weekend streams...

 

This is an interesting point but rather ridiculous if true. All the game should load for a mission is what each player has equipped, no more no less. We don't need to know details of the 200 weapons they have in storage, just the 3 they have equipped plus archwing, companion, gear etc. If true, DE should seriously look into optimizing their processes. That would translate into better performance for everyone.

 

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39 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

And if you ask who actually use all 90 meaningful rivens? You have 1 here.

+1 here
Not all weapons need to be "worthwhile" to keep a (good) Riven for. Say, I had an odd fondness for Dera and Tetra for which I'd obviously keep a mod for. Or Karak. Or Lato and Sicarus which are some silly fun while not being objectively all that amazing. Dragon Nikana which is frankly inferior to Nikana Pr but it was with me for so long, it got some minor sentimental value. Etc. Not gonna list my whole stockpile here.
Now we have archgun rivens, and tbh I'm not sure I even can make room for them at 90 cap present.

Of course, I don't use them ALL at ALL TIMES, but every now and then I like to revisit some of my arsenal for some novelty. Needless to say, it would be silly to re-aquire and possibly re-roll rivens every time I get hit by nostalgia and want to run around with Dread or Paris Pr or something.

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Now I totally Unserstand why Warframe has no a real Endgame. This Community or who says 90 riven Slots are more than enough, they dont play this Game with passion. This peoples are playing occadionally and dont care about all. 

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What's the point of raising the limit?
The limit isn't a secret. You all know and knew about it. You went for reaching the limit on purpose.
If they raise the limit, you will just go for it again.

So maybe learn how to restrict yourself first. Then we could talk about a higher limit. 😉

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vor 2 Stunden schrieb Gabbynaru:

There aren't 90 weapons good enough to use on a regular basis, so why anyone would need more than 90 rivens is beyond me. Then again, the existence or rivens is beyond me too. Still, 15 rivens is more than enough for your average player, and the fact that you can hold up to 90 is ridiculously generous. If even that is not enough, then I don't know what to say. Maybe tone it down a little?

I play specific weapon/frame combos, I don't switch them around. Ideally, that's 3 rivens per loadout. 90 slots is nothing with all loadout slots possible occupied.

I need more rivens slots. And more loadout slots.

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vor 3 Stunden schrieb ArisaSensei:

From my point of view, a veteran player is on that is MR 26-27 and has almost nothing else to collect in terms of conventional weapons/warframe/pets and personally speaking a little longer of a load time is a small price to pay to be able to have a reason to play the game again and increase my collection

Then that title is literally meaningless. I like that you added the "personally speaking" to your statement because i fall under your consideration of "veteran" and i can wait for rivens to be deleted (which will sadly never happen).

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more rivens = more options. should we pick from already limited pool .when we have well over.. what was 300 weapons? with at least 2-6(or more) new ones every prime cycle. (not including the prime gear so that could be 5+)

its very hard to keep a collection AND keep the ones i use.  and since we are not allowed to have a second account let alone use it for additional storage, at the very LEAST they could increase the slots.

even with just 300 *weapons* applicable to riven mods( its probably more) thats less than 30% of the total. 

i'm sure everyone here has an increasing amount or i should say a decreasing amount of space available for "free" riven slots.

dont even get me started on people who like to keep doubles ( because we dont always get the stat we want on the first one) 

also i read through this post and you guys are disgustingly triggered and borderline rude to the poster. 

i dont know about the coding and such but i dont think that is the actual reason DE wont/hasn't increased the cap.

its probably a balance issue. there is always two sides to each situation. and understanding BOTH is required before making decisions like this. ( and only DE really got the Deets on that )

until than we can only make suggestions.

 

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vor 48 Minuten schrieb Makunogo:

dont know about the coding and such but i dont think that is the actual reason DE wont/hasn't increased the cap.

Load times. Rivens are saved server side and the more rivens you have the longer the loading screens take.

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4 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

I agree, 

But do I think it will happen? Unlikely 

Why? Not because of capacity, it's going to be to limit the number of active rivens you can have. The fewer the rivens you can hold the greater the value of the things you sell. Higher riven count will indirectly affect riven prices which is one of the biggest means for ayers to use plat. 

This is my theory for the riven limit as well. As a collector I've burned at least 100 rivens or given them away, less rivens means more value to the ones that exist. In theory anyways.

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20 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

Load times. Rivens are saved server side and the more rivens you have the longer the loading screens take.

i dont really see much issue with this.. i have been mostly at 80+ rivens most the time and honestly loading into the mission has never been an issue. and i sometimes play the game via tethering from my phones data.. 

so this reason just comes off as a band-aid excuse to me.

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3 hours ago, MillbrookWest said:

I don't think that's an entirely correct recollection.

Principally, it's a database kind of issue. Storage is part of the issue, as the "riven" is is just an "entry" (for want of a better word) in a table. But accessing said entries is also an issue.

The two are kinda mutual. As storage goes up, you typically have more entries. Rivens, increase storage by quite some degree as ascertained from the Devs.

The more things you have, the more times you hit the database. I can't recall how DE store the riven per se, but as a worst case example, your one riven points to however many mod skills it contains, or even worse, every variation it may be.

So (as an example), when you open up your Riven screen, you are sending a bunch of requests for all variations of your Rivens. It might seem like it's just '90' to you, but in the background you could end up with many hundreds of calls each of which the server needs to do something with.

This is where you would get the "issue" loading, as the clients sync with host, host must know what the clients have so that it can replicate. It's not the end of the world by any means. But it is slow; since every Riven is essentially a unique item that is individually called from the server.

There is no easy solution for it other than to store Rivens locally, which would be a cheating nightmare. Steve did mention that there was a new compression implementation they could use that would help the storage aspect, but that it's not stuck any time they've tried to implement it.

That's the best TL;DR i got. 

Hopefully, this puts some of those "DE don't care" statements to rest. Not entirely sure why some people immediately assume maliciousness when something they want isn't acted on immediately. 

 

19 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

Load times. Rivens are saved server side and the more rivens you have the longer the loading screens take.

Well, if that is true, then PoE minimum spec requirment is a quantum computer now, isn't it.

Hope you both relize that in games like Poe you can have in practice unlimited invertory space per player with potentially no two object alike statwise (prefixes, suffixes, enchanments ecc...all different in type and value) with a matchmaking up to 6 people. So how is that GGG has no database problems and has virtually no loading times? 

And I would say that after 2 years+ of no solution saying that "isn't acted on immediately" is an understatment 😛

 

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Cap gets raised and this exact topic gets made again. Why would DE do that just to get the same response in a week when you've hit the cap again.

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Yeah I've sold like 20 rivens because I ran out of space years ago.

This is getting silly.

 

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22 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Cap gets raised and this exact topic gets made again. Why would DE do that just to get the same response in a week when you've hit the cap again.

Why not? Didn't DeScott said in the interview with tactical potato that "1 riven per weapon seems reasonable"? 

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36 minutes ago, Nirrel said:

Why not? Didn't DeScott said in the interview with tactical potato that "1 riven per weapon seems reasonable"? 

"Seems" is not "is" in this context.

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6 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

"Seems" is not "is" in this context.

So I found the video and the exact quote is : " but one per weapon seem like a legitimate thing, a legitimate goal to get to "

Doesn't really matter. You asked why DE would do it and I gave you a reason : because they thought it legitimate goal to get to implementing it incrementaly at the time. So why people shouldn't ask for it every now and then up until we get to 1 per weapon.

Of course if you personally think that it is not a legitimate goal to get to then you can expess it why.

Here is the video, it should start at 18 minutes in if anybody is interested.

 

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8 hours ago, Gabbynaru said:

There aren't 90 weapons good enough to use on a regular basis, so why anyone would need more than 90 rivens is beyond me. Then again, the existence or rivens is beyond me too. Still, 15 rivens is more than enough for your average player, and the fact that you can hold up to 90 is ridiculously generous. If even that is not enough, then I don't know what to say. Maybe tone it down a little?

Yeah but nothing beats the feeling of melting a worthless Riven for a pittance of Endo only to have a weapon you never though you would use get a total rework or a prime a month or so later turning that once useless Riven into one that you would gladly use on a regular basis. 

Holding 90 rivens is by no means generous in a game with something like 400 weapons that are constantly in a state of flux. So far I've hit on at least three Rivens that I deleted because the weapon they where for wasn't interesting and within a month REWORK, PRIME. Prisma or Vandal/etc~ nothing says festering resentment like having deleted a riven for a weapon that you would now use in a heartbeat because you literally had no choice and no way of knowing it was about stop being bad.  Aaaamd I humbly await the rando chiming in with "well you could have kept all 91 and just never played Sorties again" as if that is a realistic or viable option. 

 

The other massive problem is that DE has made dealing with Riven overflow both supremely irritating and completely unrewarding. 

Sure you got the Riven, took the time to unlock the Riven and it turned out to be junk (for the moment), your options are.

  1. Dissolve the Riven for less Endo than you would have gotten if you'd just gotten an Ayatan or the Endor reward from the Sortie 
  2. Spend a bunch of time waiting to fight Eidolon, Fight through three Ediolon all for the privilage of turning three Rivens into one Riven... that you then need to unlock and has a pretty good chance of being something you're just going to dissolve anyhow. 
  3. Slog through the veritable hellscape of trying to trade your Riven for anything else, outside of people who use Warframe as a trade simulator, you aren't going to enjoy the experience. 

Soooo there are no "good" ways of dealing with overflow but if you don't I hope you enjoy being totally locked out of Sorties and having a prompt CONSTANTLY reminding you that you're over cap..... cause we all love the Clippy effect. 

 

It is unlikely that they will lift the riven cap because they really painted themselves into a corner with the shortsightedness with regards to the amount of database space that Rivens where going to consume. Tho they can make the sting significantly less. Tho I still fully support the idea of cap expansion. 

  1. Make Rivens Generic before you try to equip them to a weapon. By that I mean that a Melee Riven for example is just a Melee riven, no challenge no additional anything. Why that helps is that you can then stack those infinitely, like any other mod. The only time the game starts to take your cap into consideration would be when you tried to apply that Riven to an applicable weapon to unlock it. At which point the game checks to see if you have the capacity and IF you do it will then spin that Riven off giving it a challenge and counting it against your cap. That at least mitigates being locked out of Sorties.
  2. Dissolve Rivens into Kuva, ya know the stuff that we actually kinda want and probably wouldn't mind getting from dissolving a Riven, also thematically appropriate. If they want to scale that Kuva based on how many re-rolls (I'd assum up to 10(?) I think that's when it hits the 3.5k cap, I'd assume they wouldn't consider past that) that's up to them but it should IMHO be Kuva. Also don't penalize people for not having unveiled their Riven before they melt them. 
  3. Get rid of the locking Transmutation behind the Eidolons, they clearly felt they needed a porkchop so people would play with them and now they have Arcanes so can we please Please PLEASE stop that nonsense. 
  4. No helping out here, Warframes trade system is just an arcane mess and the topic for another thread where people argue back and forth about. 

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I made a similar post a while back.

From a gameplay perspective, you're entirely correct.  The player is stifled in their progression and collection due to this limit, and it adds a straight up source of anxiety which leads to less desire to play.  From a business perspective, it's a disincentive to buy plat, which is [quite honestly] idiotic on DE's part.

Now, given how obvious it is that the Riven Limit should be abolished (note: note simply "expanded," as this only pushes off the problem without fixing anything), there will be many who disagree with you.  Those will mainly be DE database apologists who think that the storage necessary for rivens or the I/O capability of it will be utterly overwhelmed, those who think the point of rivens is to trade them, those who will say you're playing the game wrong, and those who will say "you don't *need* more riven capacity, you want it."  All of these people either have ulterior motives (like keeping riven prices high so they can abuse the riven limit), while others just want to sound better than you because "they play the game the right way."  All of these people will post in this thread trying to call you out as a fool for pointing out an obvious point, which if implemented would instantly improve the game.

So, don't worry when most of your replies are people telling you you're wrong.  Keep the flag of obvious improvement to the game flying in the face of these sophomores and punks, and let's push to eliminate the riven limit.

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7 hours ago, (PS4)GER_SIGNUM said:

Now I totally Understand why Warframe has no a real Endgame. This Community or who says 90 riven Slots are more than enough, they dont play this Game with passion. This peoples are playing occasionally and don't care about all. 

Warframes endgame is the community coming together to make a single decision and all agree on it till then were a disorganized mess most the time 

also i play this game with passion this game is bloody fun i've played it far more then any other game ive owned and i don't even use rivens i actually rather dislike them are you saying i shouldn't exist since i don't have 90 rivens and are wanting more of them? that i don't care for a game just because i don't invest in a RNG burnout game mechanic? i started back in beta even got a accolade for it if you wanna check. 

so i say this in the most polite way possible screw you for saying oh you don't invest in X you don't care for this game in a attempt to disregard people who do play this game with passion but do not care for bad mechanics that ruin build diversity more then they claim to help it

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It's my belief that rivens weren't properly introduced to begin with. But we're past the point of no return now.

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As a small aside, my girlfriend doesn't want to play Warframe tonight SPECIFICALLY because of the Riven Limit.

DE, for the love of your fans most likely to buy Prime Access and who have gotten roughly a dozen people to get into the game and also buy Prime Access....ELIMINATE THE RIVEN LIMIT.

(like, seriously, the Steam Summer Sale is on right now, and money that would have ended up as Prime Access is going to purchasing other new games, even though this is my favorite game....announce ending the Riven Limit at TennoCon, or something....just get rid of it.)

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