Mirage's Puzzle

[Halike]

Between U22.12 and U24.0.0, Eclipse works like reworked Chroma's vex armor, damage bonus like damage mods, like Serration.

 

It seems quite equitable,

Chroma has 275% base damage,

Octavia has 200% base damage, but ability 3 exist multi shot buff,

Mirage has 200% base damage, but ability 1 exist multiple attack，

Rhino has 50% multiple damage，but have twice buff on dots.

 

But,

After U24.0.0, Eclipse works like Chroma's vex armor or Rhino's Roar before U22.12 rework:

• Fixed a longstanding issue with number calculation being multiplicative. Boosts now apply before upgrades instead of after, making the ability consistent with all other damage boosting abilities. Overshields are now considered for Vex Armor. Chroma's Vex Armor remains one of the top performing damage-multipliers in the game - and it's now an aura! Instead of just being focused on Chroma, it can now benefit allies in range.   

Since then, the balance of damage buff abilities are totally broken. 

Mirage can easily get 7x damage buff at 300% ability strength,

but Rhino can only get 2.5x damage in the same mod build.

 

I hope DE fix it, make mirage's Eclipse buff as base damage mods, but not damage multiple.

It is unfair to Rhino and Chroma, really.

Edited June 2, 2019 by Halike

[Matak-FR]

Or buff Rhino and chroma ?

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

It's not about fairness. Most things get nerfed because players overuse them to the point it hurts the game. Mirage is very far from meta compared to those two. And asking for her to get hit because others were will not solve anything. It's just an "I suffered so others must suffer as well", which is a poor stance for anyone to have in any life aspect. Look at beautiful Mesa, for instance. One could say she is one of the most op frames in the game, and a meta one too. But I don't see any nerf incoming as of just yet.

Edited June 2, 2019 by (PS4)Hikuro-93

[Lilith_KamenRider]

Is this an algorithm problem?

Edited June 2, 2019 by ---Rua---LilithWise

[DeMonkey]

5 hours ago, Halike said:

Mirage can easily get 7x damage buff at 300% ability strength,

Not easily. 7x damage buff is the maximum amount she can have, however it still varies between light intensity. You may be in the light, but you may not be 100% in the light and thus only getting maybe 5x damage instead.

You can get around this by lighting yourself on fire, however based on the recent patch removing Javlok's self damage I presume it's no longer possible to do it "easily".

Mirage also doesn't provide the bonus to allies unlike Chroma and Rhino unless using an additional mod for an augment, and even then the range is very short.

[(XBOX)Zweimander]

A others have stated the buff varies with light and is situational to begin with. Also Mirage is a squishy frame that is classified as a DPS weapon platform and not nearly as tanky ad either Rhino or Chroma. If mirage was as tanky as chroma I could accept a nerf to her but as it stands she is a more damaging glass cannon compared to the tanky yet still quite powerful chroma.

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

Well for starters Chroma requires self damage in order to successfully activate. So I can understand why his buff is a little bit higher than mirage’s. However mirage having to be in lit areas complicates her ability too much for such a low buff in comparison to chroma who also has an armor buff on top of weapon damage buff. Mirage is just too “squishy” for such complications. 

Her eclipse doesn’t affect her first ability. So the first ability simply adds to her third and makes her survivability slightly higher. 

Rhino increases ALL damage, that includes ability damage. And my rhino with the highest power strength build currently possible has a roar of 206%. Which is 3.06x all damage. Which includes mirages clones. If they are activated before the Roar is activated. Which makes Rhino the best partner for a killframe like Saryn or Equinox to be paired with. Many complainers don’t even realize that a rhino is making a crowd destroyer more destructive. So they complain about how “OP” a Saryn and such is out of pure ignorance. I’ve personally witnessed it multiple times. 

Then Mirage’s augment Total Eclipse is TOTALLY USELESS. You have to stack on like 250-280% range just to be able have the same radius as a short range chroma. People love using the “chroma requires self damage” excuse but his third is like 5x greater than mirage’s. 

1). Chroma reaches a higher buff.

2). Chroma has weapon damage + armor buff at the same time.

3). Chroma can now buff nearby allies at a decent range.

4. Chroma can recast the third to keep the max buff going forever as long as he has energy. 

5. Chroma does NOT need an augment to make it slightly better. 

Now I’m not asking for Chroma to be nerfed. Just for mirage to be more useful. Like making eclipse affect the clones, the augment either has a much higher range or just make the ability itself affect teammates. Something like that.

The ONLY advantage the eclipse has, is that it requires just a push of a button to use while chroma requires damage. For new players that may seem awesome. But for experts like me, it sucks. My chroma has Prime sure footed so I don’t get knocked down and I use a glaive prime to damage myself and my sentinel instantly restores my shields every now and then. So it only take me like 5 seconds longer to fully cast my ability and it technically lasts forever. So for just 5 seconds longer I basically have a permanent, higher buff that affects other players. For arbitrations if my warframe is a chroma I have a range build just so my entire team can benefit from the buff. Allowing us to destroy the drones along with enemies. 

Mirage’s eclipse just need a little buff to make her more useful. I’ll even accept that her third ability gets channeled into her forth to make the forth do more damage. Like if you activate eclipse and stand in lit spaces, she channels all the light she basically absorbs and focus it into her prism. Maybe even reduces the duration time on the eclipse to 0 for a much higher damaging prism. Either way she needs a buff.

Chroma paired with a Nidus is OP. While mirage is basically useless with other frames. She is basically a solo frame. I made a range build for my mirage for arbitrations. I tested it out and omg it was a pain to watch. Even with the power buff she still couldn’t go as high as my chroma without the buff. Then her augment range was still super short, about as long as my chroma with no range mods. Then the fact that I had to stay in lit areas to keep the damage buff. So basically it was like I had to go AFK since there are too many shadowy spots. 

Her instant cast means nothing to me. Her clones don’t make much of a difference since they aren’t affected by eclipse and that requires more energy. I was able to figure a way around the complications of Chroma’s vex armor. But there is no way around the complicated squishiness of mirage’s eclipse. Only a solo player would like mirage. And there are too many of them in public matches. Makes Arbitration a pain since many like to get themselves killed and host migrate the game over and over cause they chose to not be a team. And DE is all about teamwork. At least that is what they claim.  

[Teridax68]

This thread begs the question of why we need to homogenize similar mechanics across frames in their numbers: despite Mirage having an "unfair" high damage multiplier relative to Rhino and Chroma, she is far less viable in the current metagame than both for a variety of reasons. Moreover, Mirage's damage buffs are entirely personal, whereas Rhino's is an aura (Chroma's is too, technically, but the most common Chroma builds go for negative range and don't care about buffing others, so it doesn't really count), so in that respect I don't really see the sense in equalizing their multiplier values either.

I can agree to making Mirage's damage buffs additive, rather than multiplicative, but then that may also require some changes to her kit, as it makes more sense for her buffs to be multiplicative, rather than additive, when she has two of them at once. Her 1 is currently almost nothing but a glorified damage/multishot buff, when her 3 is also a damage buff in the light (and the whole light/dark mechanic is fairly inconsistent in practice) : considering how Mirage currently does only really one thing, and has a kit full of abilities that are either redundant in function (e.g. her 1 relative to her 3), more interesting on paper than in practice (e.g. her 3), or simply not useful at all, (e.g. her 2), an update could help make her more generally viable while also addressing her stacking damage multipliers.

[Veridian]

So you'd like the high damage tanks to do the same damage as the glass cannon?

You don't see anything wrong with that?

Also, again, light dependence.

[AlekSeven]

Heat proc on Mirage can activate the light buff even in the dark (unless considered a bug).

[supernils]

Who knew it was Calypso, not just "Siren"? Damn that puzzle